2 Peter 3:10 The Big Whoosh

[Timtofly]

All we are left with is a glorified earth for glorified believers.

Then why is it burned to a crisp in your scenario? Jesus rules over this glorified earth, and then hands back creation. Ruling is for a specified length of time, not an instant of not ruling. They rule and reign with Christ for a thousand years. This rule is on a glorified earth. Then creation is handed back to God. This rule is on a regenerated earth, not over a sin cursed earth of death.

"For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet."

"And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel."

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:"

"He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;"

The Second Coming is the fiery end of this world, and the regeneration of a glorious earth. Then after 1,000 years, Jesus hands back creation. This earth is regenerated at the Second Coming. It was not regenerated in the first century. You do not allow any time for a rule on this regenerated earth, you claim as being glorified.

"And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever."

Why are these kingdoms given at the Second Coming? For your glorious rule to start in the first century all of earth would have been given then. Amil claim the glorious rule is now, but lack a glorious kingdom. The glorious kingdom starts at the Second Coming, but you deny there is 1,000 years of a glorious kingdom until Jesus hands back creation to God. The Day of the Lord is this period of glorious rule on a glorious earth.

 

[Timtofly]

No. Rev 20 is the last of 7 recaps. It takes us back to the fruit of the first resurrection 2000 years ago. Your interpretation of Rev has zero corroboration elsewhere in Scripture. Amil has countless support.

How? Those future beheaded were transported back in time to the first century?

Recap is a human opinion that has to be taught by humans. Recap is not what John witnessed. John witnessed Armageddon and then Satan bound for 1,000 years. Armageddon did not happen in 70AD. Those beheaded were not part of the Romans squashing the Jewish revolt.

How many Scriptures describe how the FP, Satan, and the beast are defeated at Armageddon? Do you toss out Revelation 19, for lack of corroboration?

Revelation 20 is the NT clear view of a length of time, and you symbolize that description and make it ambiguous and vague. That is not using NT to clear up OT prophecy. That is making the NT as obscure as possible, thus making Amil the final arbiter instead of the Holy Spirit.

 

[WPM]

How? Those future beheaded were transported back in time to the first century?

Recap is a human opinion that has to be taught by humans. Recap is not what John witnessed. John witnessed Armageddon and then Satan bound for 1,000 years. Armageddon did not happen in 70AD. Those beheaded were not part of the Romans squashing the Jewish revolt.

How many Scriptures describe how the FP, Satan, and the beast are defeated at Armageddon? Do you toss out Revelation 19, for lack of corroboration?

Revelation 20 is the NT clear view of a length of time, and you symbolize that description and make it ambiguous and vague. That is not using NT to clear up OT prophecy. That is making the NT as obscure as possible, thus making Amil the final arbiter instead of the Holy Spirit.

Believers have been murdered since the beginning. Check out the story of Abel. The first resurrection emptied Abraham's bosom and saw captivity being taken captive by the Lord. They now reign in heaven with Jesus Christ.

 

[ewq1938]

Don't you see? Think about this logically. When do the kings, commanders and soldiers enter into caves in order to avoid the wrath of the lamb, before the celestial events or after?

They do that in hopes of dying.

 

[CadyandZoe]

They do that in hopes of dying.

The point is, if the celestial events are the big whoosh, then these folks would be dead already.

 

[ewq1938]

The point is, if the celestial events are the big whoosh, then these folks would be dead already.

Some will be killed because many will be killed that day but Rev 2 and 19 both promise a rule over the nations past the second coming and all the slaying done then so your point is moot. I believe your entire premise is based on not including those opassages from Rev, and on misunderstanding one other passage. There is a lot of killing at the second coming but most people are left alone and allowed to live, and none of the planet nor heaven is burned to nothing.

 

[Keraz]

There is a lot of killing at the second coming

Yes, but the bigger, worldwide disaster will be the forthcoming Sixth Seal; Day of the Lord's fiery wrath.
That is the event Peter refers to in 2 Peter 3:7, & 10.

 

[ewq1938]

Yes, but the bigger, worldwide disaster will be the forthcoming Sixth Seal; Day of the Lord's fiery wrath.

The idea of firery wrath is am Amill fictional invention and nothing happens at all when the 6th seal is opened.

 

[Keraz]

The idea of firery wrath is am Amill fictional invention and nothing happens at all when the 6th seal is opened.

The Sixth Seal will happen at least 10 years before the glorious Return.
It will be the Lord's great reset of our civilization, of a similar magnitude to Noahs Flood. Over 100 Bible prophesies graphically describe that terrible Day.
Denial of it doesn't make it go away.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Some will be killed because many will be killed that day but Rev 2 and 19 both promise a rule over the nations past the second coming and all the slaying done then so your point is moot. I believe your entire premise is based on not including those opassages from Rev, and on misunderstanding one other passage. There is a lot of killing at the second coming but most people are left alone and allowed to live, and none of the planet nor heaven is burned to nothing.

I agree. So how is my point moot?

 

[Taken]

I don't see any timing clues in his exhortation. As he says, the day of the Lord comes like a thief in the night, which means that his coming is indeterminate. All we really know is that the promise hasn't been fulfilled yet and some people will grow impatient.
What did you have in mind?

There are many particular “days” BEFORE hand, that prepare men, and LEAD UP to “THAT DAY” of the divided men and separated, men “with and without the Lord” for “THAT DAY” the Lord God IS ONE, His Name ONE, His Kingdom IS on Heaven AND Earth.

Zech 14
[9] And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[WPM]

There are many particular “days” BEFORE hand, that prepare men, and LEAD UP to “THAT DAY” of the divided men and separated, men “with and without the Lord” for “THAT DAY” the Lord God IS ONE, His Name ONE, His Kingdom IS on Heaven AND Earth.

Zech 14
[9] And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

Glory to God,
Taken

First of all, Zechariah 14 makes absolutely no allusion to a future 1,000 years after the second coming, or does Zechariah 14 compare with any of the detail outlined in Revelation 20 (start, middle or finish). The detail occurring at the end of Revelation 20 only compares with the many passages relating to Christ’s one final future all-consummating Second Advent – there we see the destruction of every enemy of Christ and righteousness.

A helpful pointer that should aid the open-minded reader dissect the book of Zechariah is the phrase “in that day.” It connects the whole book together. It is mentioned 20 times in this Old Testament prophecy. It is extremely notable that reference after reference to “in that day” actually refers to the 1st Advent. Zechariah 14 also describes AD 70 and the spread of the Gospel to the darkened nations.

AD 70 is referenced in Zechariah 13 and 14 but generally it is a symbolic looking at Christ's ministry. There are a mixture of events relating to the life and ministry of Christ, Jerusalem's judgment (AD 70), the going out of the Gospel to the Gentiles. Notwithstanding, these are all tied together in Christ – and cannot be divorced one from another. Jerusalem was destroyed because of their rejection of Christ. The Gentiles came against the city, but the Gospel in turn went out among the Gentiles with great success.

Second, as you study the New Testament you see that the wicked are all destroyed when Jesus comes, this disallows the placing of this after the second coming. There will be no mortals or no sinners to populate the new earth, what is more, they are prohibited from inheriting it (Matthew 25:34 &25:46, 1 Corinthians 6:9, and 1 Corinthians 15:50).

Thirdly, the keeping of the Judaic sacrificial system has been eternally abolished (see Galatians 4:9-10, Colossians 2:14, 16, 20-22 ). Many of the place names in Jerusalem don't exist anymore. Localized worship in a brick temple in Jerusalem has gone forever. We now worship God in spirit and in truth John 4:21).

 

[ewq1938]

I agree. So how is my point moot?

No "whoosh" ie: NHNE at the second coming.

 

[ewq1938]

The Sixth Seal will happen at least 10 years before the glorious Return.

lol, no. You are taking second coming events and forcing them, to happen ten years early and somehow still have a second coming. This type of interpretation surely must be personal and private only to you. I reject it as does everyone else here I think. None of this matches what the scriptures present. The events the 6th seal speaks of is the second coming. That cannot be debated on a serious level.

 

[CadyandZoe]

First of all, Zechariah 14 makes absolutely no allusion to a future 1,000 years after the second coming, or does Zechariah 14 compare with any of the detail outlined in Revelation 20 (start, middle or finish).

You always seem to miss the essential point. Zechariah tells you that Jesus will rule on the Earth, which is contrary to Amillennialism.

 

[WPM]

You always seem to miss the essential point. Zechariah tells you that Jesus will rule on the Earth, which is contrary to Amillennialism.

Zechariah 14:9: “And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.”

The Hebrew word translated “over” here is ‛al, meaning: above, over (of elevation or pre-eminence). There is no suggestion here of an earthly reign of Christ after the second coming as Premillennialists try to argue.

So, what is this talking about? It is talking about the current glorious majestic heavenly reign of Christ at the right hand of majesty after His ascension. There He victoriously sovereignly rules over the nations upon the throne of God. The kingdom of God is not limited to the ancient borders of ethnic Israel any more, as it largely was in the Old Testament. It is seen throughout the whole world. Jesus is “indeed king over all the earth” not just Israel.

 

[Keraz]

lol, no. You are taking second coming events and forcing them, to happen ten years early and somehow still have a second coming. This type of interpretation surely must be personal and private only to you. I reject it as does everyone else here I think. None of this matches what the scriptures present. The events the 6th seal speaks of is the second coming. That cannot be debated on a serious level.

Firstly; any belief of the Sixth seal at the Return of Jesus, necessitates a shuffling of Revelation. Not advisable.

Then, you haven't read or understood the 3 texts that do describe the glorious Return of Jesus for His Millennium reign. They are:
Zechariah 14:3-21, verses 1-2, refer to what happens 3 1/2 years before the Return; when the world leader conquers the holy people.
Matthew 24:29-31, Verse 29 says AFTER God's wrath is over.
Revelation 19:11-21, Jesus only disposes of the attacking armies at Armageddon. NO fire involved.

What is clearly Prophesied, is that the Lord will send His fiery wrath to change the world and to commence all the end times events, leading up to the Return. For sure, the world cannot be as it is now, for Jesus to Return. Even the fooled and deceived 'rapture to heaven' believers know there is coming a hard time of trials and testing, BEFORE the Return.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Zechariah 14:9: “And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.”

The Hebrew word translated “over” here is ‛al, meaning: above, over (of elevation or pre-eminence). There is no suggestion here of an earthly reign of Christ after the second coming as Premillennialists try to argue.

So, what is this talking about? It is talking about the current glorious majestic heavenly reign of Christ at the right hand of majesty after His ascension. There He victoriously sovereignly rules over the nations upon the throne of God. The kingdom of God is not limited to the ancient borders of ethnic Israel any more, as it largely was in the Old Testament. It is seen throughout the whole world. Jesus is “indeed king over all the earth” not just Israel.

It is not talking about ruling from heaven. Simply consider the next few verses.

10 All the land will be changed into a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem; but Jerusalem will rise and remain on its site from Benjamin’s Gate as far as the place of the First Gate to the Corner Gate, and from the Tower of Hananel to the king’s wine presses. 11 People will live in it, and there will no longer be a curse, for Jerusalem will dwell in security.

Zechariah is talking about the land surrounding Jerusalem. NOT heaven.

 

[Keraz]

Zechariah 14:9: “And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.”

The Hebrew word translated “over” here is ‛al, meaning: above, over (of elevation or pre-eminence). There is no suggestion here of an earthly reign of Christ after the second coming as Premillennialists try to argue.

So, what is this talking about? It is talking about the current glorious majestic heavenly reign of Christ at the right hand of majesty after His ascension. There He victoriously sovereignly rules over the nations upon the throne of God. The kingdom of God is not limited to the ancient borders of ethnic Israel any more, as it largely was in the Old Testament. It is seen throughout the whole world. Jesus is “indeed king over all the earth” not just Israel.

This is a very wrong and unbiblical belief.
That Jesus will be physically on earth when He Returns is clearly stated. He comes down from heaven and is present in His Holy Temple, in Jerusalem, as many scriptures tell us. Zechariah 14:16-21, Isaiah 2:1-4, Psalms 45.46. 47, & 48

 

[ewq1938]

What is clearly Prophesied, is that the Lord will send His fiery wrath to change the world and to commence all the end times events, leading up to the Return.

I have decades of biblical experience and have never seen anything like this in scripture. Nothing of this sort is found in the OD or same timeframe passages in Rev. There is trib from satan for years before the second coming, no firey wrath from God during any of that time.