2,520 Days Of The Tribulation Feast Of Trumpets 2015 To Tisha B'av 2022

[teleiosis]

God's feast days are reckoned on the solar calendar. Passover starts at sunset on the 14th day after the Spring Equinox. The other feast days are also from the solar calendar.

Again this is absolutely wrong. God does not use a solar calendar for the OT feast days.

 

[Doppleganger]

Without quoting any links, theres enough info here on it, to at least point to this suggestion. That ...

http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/12966-more-astonishing-bible-proof-warning-athiests-this-is-adult-sensitive-material/page__view__findpost__p__98349

If originally, both lunar & solar calendars were synchronized by the same times, yet in the past, the path around the sun was disturbed around 2345 & 1400 (by standard chronology), which wasn't brought back into alignment till around the time of Ahaz, around 700 BC. And since the most ancient calendaric systems were based on degrees (360), in Mesopotamia, dating to the time of the patriarchs of Ur in Chaldea. And various systems had 30 day lunar calendars (which later was added 5 days) to compute the length of the solar year.

Aren't you two just talking about the same two different aspects of the same system.

The solar year, was only reconed by the equinoxes & solistises, (also eclipse cycles, 19 & 76 year cycles.) A lesser measure, the lunar could be calculated every 30 days, and added 12 times for a year, which somewhere along the line, was changed to add 5 1/4 days, to a calendar that was made of 360 days, or a month of days every 6 years.

365 x 6 =2190, 360 x 6 =2160, which equals 30 extra days every 6 years. I agree there are variations on this, but what is your point or points?

 

[tomwebster]

Again this is absolutely wrong. God does not use a solar calendar for the OT feast days.

You do whatever YOU want, t, I will continue celebrating Passover on the correct date. Be a follower the moon, of course, we know the moon is an imitation Light of the night.

 

[teleiosis]

You do whatever YOU want, t, I will continue celebrating Passover on the correct date. Be a follower the moon, of course, we know the moon is an imitation Light of the night.

Now you're just being insulting. "Follower (of) the moon..." how degrading that you would not only display your ignorance of the Hebrew calendar system which was set up by God for His people, but then you would castigate a fellow Christian who tried to correct your error into the realm of creation worshippers or allah worshippers.

 

[noselfwilling]

Stop arguing. Accept what God's word says that when Israel becomes a nation again (Matt. 24.32-33) we can know when Jesus return is. It may take a little understanding but we know.

Revelation 6.12 in order:
Haiti Earthquake (5th worse disaster in history) ---> H3 Solar Eclipse Nov. 3, 2013 (4th since Christ) ----> Total Lunar Tetrad 2014/15 (8th since Christ). The H3-Tetrad combo is the 1st since Christ.

2,520 days from Feast of Trumpets 2014 does not fall on Tisha B'Av in 2021, but it does for 2015-22

So we know the first rapture according to readiness (Matt. 24.40-42, Luke 21.36, Rev. 3.10) "before the throne" (Rev. 7.9) in 3rd heaven occurs on Sept. 14, 2015 before the trumpets of the Tribulation commence (Rev. 8.1,7). and Jesus steps down on the mount of olives Aug. 7, 2022.

He judges the nations for 30 days from the 1260th to the 1290th and 45 days more to the 1335th day He sets Israel up as the center of all nations.

Simple so you are without excuse.

 

[bud02]

Without quoting any links, theres enough info here on it, to at least point to this suggestion. That ...

http://www.christian...dpost__p__98349

If originally, both lunar & solar calendars were synchronized by the same times, yet in the past, the path around the sun was disturbed around 2345 & 1400 (by standard chronology), which wasn't brought back into alignment till around the time of Ahaz, around 700 BC. And since the most ancient calendaric systems were based on degrees (360), in Mesopotamia, dating to the time of the patriarchs of Ur in Chaldea. And various systems had 30 day lunar calendars (which later was added 5 days) to compute the length of the solar year.

Aren't you two just talking about the same two different aspects of the same system.

The solar year, was only reconed by the equinoxes & solistises, (also eclipse cycles, 19 & 76 year cycles.) A lesser measure, the lunar could be calculated every 30 days, and added 12 times for a year, which somewhere along the line, was changed to add 5 1/4 days, to a calendar that was made of 360 days, or a month of days every 6 years.

365 x 6 =2190, 360 x 6 =2160, which equals 30 extra days every 6 years. I agree there are variations on this, but what is your point or points?

Thats an interesting point, as most know God gave Israel a lunar calender. Joshua's long day perhaps lead to the ancients changing from a 360 day year to 365 in or around 700 BC.
I wonder If the rotation of the moon around the earth also changed or stayed the same. If it stayed the same perhaps thats why God gave them a lunar calendar in the first place?
Its just a thought.
http://www.setterfield.org/000docs/biblicaldisc.htm#Joshua

 

[tomwebster]

Now you're just being insulting. "Follower (of) the moon..." how degrading that you would not only display your ignorance of the Hebrew calendar system which was set up by God for His people, but then you would castigate a fellow Christian who tried to correct your error into the realm of creation worshippers or allah worshippers.

I am not in error!

Maybe you should read about the institution of Passover and see the dating:

Exo 12:1 And the LORD spake unto Moses and Aaron in the land of Egypt, saying,
Exo 12:2 This month shall be unto you the beginning of months: it shall be the first month of the year to you.
Exo 12:3 Speak ye unto all the congregation of Israel, saying, In the tenth day of this month they shall take to them every man a lamb, according to the house of their fathers, a lamb for an house:
Exo 12:4 And if the household be too little for the lamb, let him and his neighbour next unto his house take it according to the number of the souls; every man according to his eating shall make your count for the lamb.
Exo 12:5 Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year: ye shall take it out from the sheep, or from the goats:
Exo 12:6 And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening.
Exo 12:7 And they shall take of the blood, and strike it on the two side posts and on the upper door post of the houses, wherein they shall eat it.
Exo 12:8 And they shall eat the flesh in that night, roast with fire, and unleavened bread; and with bitter herbs they shall eat it.
Exo 12:9 Eat not of it raw, nor sodden at all with water, but roast with fire; his head with his legs, and with the purtenance thereof.
Exo 12:10 And ye shall let nothing of it remain until the morning; and that which remaineth of it until the morning ye shall burn with fire.
Exo 12:11 And thus shall ye eat it; with your loins girded, your shoes on your feet, and your staff in your hand; and ye shall eat it in haste: it is the LORD'S passover.
Exo 12:12 For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment: I am the LORD.
Exo 12:13 And the blood shall be to you for a token upon the houses where ye are: and when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you, when I smite the land of Egypt.
Exo 12:14 And this day shall be unto you for a memorial; and ye shall keep it a feast to the LORD throughout your generations; ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance for ever.
Exo 12:15 Seven days shall ye eat unleavened bread; even the first day ye shall put away leaven out of your houses: for whosoever eateth leavened bread from the first day until the seventh day, that soul shall be cut off from Israel.
Exo 12:16 And in the first day there shall be an holy convocation, and in the seventh day there shall be an holy convocation to you; no manner of work shall be done in them, save that which every man must eat, that only may be done of you.
Exo 12:17 And ye shall observe the feast of unleavened bread; for in this selfsame day have I brought your armies out of the land of Egypt: therefore shall ye observe this day in your generations by an ordinance for ever.
Exo 12:18 In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at even, ye shall eat unleavened bread, until the one and twentieth day of the month at even.
Exo 12:19 Seven days shall there be no leaven found in your houses: for whosoever eateth that which is leavened, even that soul shall be cut off from the congregation of Israel, whether he be a stranger, or born in the land.
Exo 12:20 Ye shall eat nothing leavened; in all your habitations shall ye eat unleavened bread.
Exo 12:21 Then Moses called for all the elders of Israel, and said unto them, Draw out and take you a lamb according to your families, and kill the passover.
Exo 12:22 And ye shall take a bunch of hyssop, and dip it in the blood that is in the bason, and strike the lintel and the two side posts with the blood that is in the bason; and none of you shall go out at the door of his house until the morning.
Exo 12:23 For the LORD will pass through to smite the Egyptians; and when he seeth the blood upon the lintel, and on the two side posts, the LORD will pass over the door, and will not suffer the destroyer to come in unto your houses to smite you.
Exo 12:24 And ye shall observe this thing for an ordinance to thee and to thy sons for ever.
Exo 12:25 And it shall come to pass, when ye be come to the land which the LORD will give you, according as he hath promised, that ye shall keep this service.
Exo 12:26 And it shall come to pass, when your children shall say unto you, What mean ye by this service?
Exo 12:27 That ye shall say, It is the sacrifice of the LORD'S passover, who passed over the houses of the children of Israel in Egypt, when he smote the Egyptians, and delivered our houses. And the people bowed the head and worshipped.
Exo 12:28 And the children of Israel went away, and did as the LORD had commanded Moses and Aaron, so did they.
Exo 12:29 And it came to pass, that at midnight the LORD smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the dungeon; and all the firstborn of cattle.
Exo 12:30 And Pharaoh rose up in the night, he, and all his servants, and all the Egyptians; and there was a great cry in Egypt; for there was not a house where there was not one dead.
Exo 12:31 And he called for Moses and Aaron by night, and said, Rise up, and get you forth from among my people, both ye and the children of Israel; and go, serve the LORD, as ye have said.
Exo 12:32 Also take your flocks and your herds, as ye have said, and be gone; and bless me also.
Exo 12:33 And the Egyptians were urgent upon the people, that they might send them out of the land in haste; for they said, We be all dead men.
Exo 12:34 And the people took their dough before it was leavened, their kneadingtroughs being bound up in their clothes upon their shoulders.
Exo 12:35 And the children of Israel did according to the word of Moses; and they borrowed of the Egyptians jewels of silver, and jewels of gold, and raiment:
Exo 12:36 And the LORD gave the people favour in the sight of the Egyptians, so that they lent unto them such things as they required. And they spoiled the Egyptians.
Exo 12:37 And the children of Israel journeyed from Rameses to Succoth, about six hundred thousand on foot that were men, beside children.
Exo 12:38 And a mixed multitude went up also with them; and flocks, and herds, even very much cattle.
Exo 12:39 And they baked unleavened cakes of the dough which they brought forth out of Egypt, for it was not leavened; because they were thrust out of Egypt, and could not tarry, neither had they prepared for themselves any victual.
Exo 12:40 Now the sojourning of the children of Israel, who dwelt in Egypt, was four hundred and thirty years.
Exo 12:41 And it came to pass at the end of the four hundred and thirty years, even the selfsame day it came to pass, that all the hosts of the LORD went out from the land of Egypt.
Exo 12:42 It is a night to be much observed unto the LORD for bringing them out from the land of Egypt: this is that night of the LORD to be observed of all the children of Israel in their generations.
Exo 12:43 And the LORD said unto Moses and Aaron, This is the ordinance of the passover: There shall no stranger eat thereof:
Exo 12:44 But every man's servant that is bought for money, when thou hast circumcised him, then shall he eat thereof.
Exo 12:45 A foreigner and an hired servant shall not eat thereof.
Exo 12:46 In one house shall it be eaten; thou shalt not carry forth ought of the flesh abroad out of the house; neither shall ye break a bone thereof.
Exo 12:47 All the congregation of Israel shall keep it.
Exo 12:48 And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof.
Exo 12:49 One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.
Exo 12:50 Thus did all the children of Israel; as the LORD commanded Moses and Aaron, so did they.
Exo 12:51 And it came to pass the selfsame day, that the LORD did bring the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt by their armies.

Exo 13:1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
Exo 13:2 Sanctify unto me all the firstborn, whatsoever openeth the womb among the children of Israel, both of man and of beast: it is mine.
Exo 13:3 And Moses said unto the people, Remember this day, in which ye came out from Egypt, out of the house of bondage; for by strength of hand the LORD brought you out from this place: there shall no leavened bread be eaten.
Exo 13:4 This day came ye out in the month Abib.


Again!

Lev 23:5 In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the LORD'S passover.

And Again!

Num 9:1 And the LORD spake unto Moses in the wilderness of Sinai, in the first month of the second year after they were come out of the land of Egypt, saying,
Num 9:2 Let the children of Israel also keep the passover at his appointed season.
Num 9:3 In the fourteenth day of this month, at even, ye shall keep it in his appointed season: according to all the rites of it, and according to all the ceremonies thereof, shall ye keep it.
Num 9:4 And Moses spake unto the children of Israel, that they should keep the passover.
Num 9:5 And they kept the passover on the fourteenth day of the first month at even in the wilderness of Sinai: according to all that the LORD commanded Moses, so did the children of Israel.

And Again!

Num 28:16 And in the fourteenth day of the first month is the passover of the LORD.
Num 28:17 And in the fifteenth day of this month is the feast: seven days shall unleavened bread be eaten.

And Again!

Deu 16:1 Observe the month of Abib, and keep the passover unto the LORD thy God: for in the month of Abib the LORD thy God brought thee forth out of Egypt by night.

And Again!

2Ch 35:1 Moreover Josiah kept a passover unto the LORD in Jerusalem: and they killed the passover on the fourteenth day of the first month
.
And Again!

Ezr 6:19 And the children of the captivity kept the passover upon the fourteenth day of the first month.

And Again!
Eze 45:21 In the first month, in the fourteenth day of the month, ye shall have the passover, a feast of seven days; unleavened bread shall be eaten.

And Again!

Mat 26:17 Now the first day of the feast of unleavened bread the disciples came to Jesus, saying unto him, Where wilt thou that we prepare for thee to eat the passover?
Mat 26:18 And he said, Go into the city to such a man, and say unto him, The Master saith, My time is at hand; I will keep the passover at thy house with my disciples.
Mat 26:19 And the disciples did as Jesus had appointed them; and they made ready the passover.
Mat 26:20 Now when the even was come, he sat down with the twelve.
Mat 26:21 And as they did eat, he said, Verily I say unto you, that one of you shall betray me.
Mat 26:22 And they were exceeding sorrowful, and began every one of them to say unto him, Lord, is it I?
Mat 26:23 And he answered and said, He that dippeth his hand with me in the dish, the same shall betray me.
Mat 26:24 The Son of man goeth as it is written of him: but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born.
Mat 26:25 Then Judas, which betrayed him, answered and said, Master, is it I? He said unto him, Thou hast said.
Mat 26:26 And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.
Mat 26:27 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;
Mat 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

And Again!
Joh 19:14 And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King!
Joh 19:15 But they cried out, Away with him, away with him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Shall I crucify your King? The chief priests answered, We have no king but Caesar.
Joh 19:16 Then delivered he him therefore unto them to be crucified. And they took Jesus, and led him away.
Joh 19:17 And he bearing his cross went forth into a place called the place of a skull, which is called in the Hebrew Golgotha:
Joh 19:18 Where they crucified him, and two other with him, on either side one, and Jesus in the midst.

1Co 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:

They were able to keep the Passover beginning at sundown on the 14th day of Abib because the 1st day of Abib was always on the Spring equinox. The same is true every year.



You do know that the Temple in Jerusalem was built so that the Priests would know the exact day of the spring equinox, right? They needed to know the day so they could celebrate the Passover on the same day every year, by the SUN not the moon.

But AGAIN, You do as YOU please!

...
So we know the first rapture according to readiness (Matt. 24.40-42, Luke 21.36, Rev. 3.10) "before the throne" (Rev. 7.9) in 3rd heaven occurs on Sept. 14, 2015 before the trumpets of the Tribulation commence (Rev. 8.1,7). and Jesus steps down on the mount of olives Aug. 7, 2022....

There is NO rapture! And your dates are not even close!

 

[noselfwilling]

I am not in
error! There is NO rapture! And your dates are not
even close!

You are in error. Those "before the throne" (Rev. 7.9) in 3rd Heaven can't get there unless they are raptured.

I am glad you couldn't overturn the dates.

1 Thess. 4.15-17 says the saints are take up to meet the Lord in the air.

 

[teleiosis]

I am not in error!

Oh really? And where in all that does it say the first month ALWAYS begins on the Spring Equinox?

And yes, there is a gathering up of believers on the Day of the Lord; it's in the Bible!

 

[noselfwilling]

I see the Day of the Lord extending from the first rapture before the throne at the start of the Tribulation, because it is a one time event, through to the 7 years, to the end of the millennial kingdom. It's all one big Day of the Lord: 7 years + 1000 years or 993 years. Not sure which calculation Jesus is using.

Rapture at the first rapture "before the throne" (Rev. 7.9) is according to readiness (Matt. 24.40-42, Luke 21.36, Rev. 3.10), and then the general rapture and resurrection takes place at the start of the last trumpet (Rev. 11.15, 15.2-4, 1 Thess. 4.15-17, 1 Cor. 15,23). The last trumpet lasts 24 months because the 6th trumpet is 13 months and the 5th trumpet is 5 months (total 42 months).

Do not mistake the verses for first rapture is not for the whole Church, for these are conditional statements. Do all believers keep the word of His patience? Of course not, so not all believers alive at the first rapture will escape the hour of trial that is to come upon the whole world, because not all believers are watchful, prayerful and keep the conduct of Matt. 5-7.

So if you were a carnal Christian lying on a bed of fornication or tied down to the world like a balloon unwilling to be released you will not be received as the advanced party (Rev. 12.5), so when you see 2 or 3 million people vanished in the world Sept. 14, 2015 Feast of Trumpets, just realize you were not ready at that time but you still have time to overcometh to receive the reward of returning with Christ to reign during the 1000 years. If you do not overcomethy by the 7th trumpet then Jesus will send you to outer darkness, outside the light of rewarding with Christ during the 1000 years. This is consequence for Christians who want to live like the worldly and be fleshly. After the 1000 year reign with a "rod of iron" rewards will be done away with. Those rewarded during the millennium get to reign over nations, states, provinces, cities and municipalities. The key to government is having a conscience. Christians and OT saints have a conscience in Christ. The world's existing leaders have no conscience.

If you are "alive" and "left" at the last trumpet, because you had not been raptured at the first rapture and were not martyred during the Tribulation, you will be raptured at the last trumpet whether you were an overcomer or not. You do not need to be a martyr to overcometh (Rev. 20.4) during the Tribulation, for many overcomers will not be martyred, but be "alive" and "left" (1 Thess. 4.15-17) to be taken up together with those who are asleep which gives them comfort (v.18).

Jude 14,15 and Rev. 20.4 are some key verses for returning and reigning. Some will reign over 10, 5, 1 cities, depending on God's decision since He knows what's best. Jesus will administer on earth when He returns just as the 24 archangels have been administering in heaven all this time (Rev. 4).

I think what's going to happen is when Jesus reigns during the millennium He is going to show us how easy it is to rule and how easy it is to stop crime, poverty, wars, etc.

His work will make a mockery of how seflish and sinful man has been these past 2000 years.

10,000 people die every every due to starvation. And that's just for staters.

 

[teleiosis]

I see the Day of the Lord extending from the first rapture before the throne at the start of the Tribulation, because it is a one time event, through to the 7 years, to the end of the millennial kingdom. It's all one big Day of the Lord: 7 years + 1000 years or 993 years. Not sure which calculation Jesus is using.

Rapture at the first rapture "before the throne" (Rev. 7.9) is according to readiness (Matt. 24.40-42, Luke 21.36, Rev. 3.10),

Okay, let's back up here. What is the Day of the Lord in Scripture?

Read: Isaiah Ch 13; Eze Ch 13 & 30; Joel Ch 1-3; Amos Ch 5; Ob Ch 1; Zep Ch 1; Mal 4; Acts Ch 2; 1Co Ch 5; 1Th Ch 5; 2Th Ch 2; 2Pe Ch 3.

In Acts 2:20 Scripture says:
The sun will be turned to darkness, and the moon to blood before the coming of the great and glorious Day of the Lord.

So one thing we can look at in Scripture which is closely aligned with the Day of the Lord is what I call the Sun/moon/star event. I can provide a whole list of occurrences and two which definitely link this celestial sign to the Day of the Lord. I think of this miraculous event as being God's signature thumbprint that these extraordinary things come from Him. At an elementary level, this will register with everyone; saved and doomed.

When we look at Scripture we have an excellent example in the Olivet Discourse from Jesus which sets the general sequence for when the Day of the Lord with its signature Sun/moon/star event occurs.

15 “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’ spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand—
(skipping the hope for those in Judea, the Jews, the next "event" is):
21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.
22 If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened.
(Again, skipping instructions to the Church concerning these days, the next event is):
29 “Immediately after the distress of those days “‘the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’
This is the Sun/moon/star event foretold in Scripture. Then Jesus says this:
30 “At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory.
31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

The sign of the Son of Man may very well be the "scrolling of the sky": which Isaiah saw.
Jesus says of all the nations of the earth, that they will see Him. This is quite in agreement with Revelation 1:7.
Furthermore, the gathering of the Elect comes from both the earth and from the "heavens" which would include Paradise, the place where souls rest until called forth by Jesus. This is in complete agreement with Daniel 12:1 and John 5:24-25.

Finally, the general sequence here is that the Day of the Lord comes after the midpoint abomination of Daniel 9;27, and after the shortened Great Tribulation. This general sequence is also set forth in prophecy in Revelation 13:14-17 where the talking image of the anti-Christ is set up (as Jesus said in the Holy Place: in front of the curtain - and in the Temple as Paul wrote) and two onerous laws go forth which will literally kill off or martyr hundreds of millions of Christians!

So Scripture doesn't line up with what you're putting out; you might want to reconsider.

 

[noselfwilling]

The sign of the Son of Man may very well be the "scrolling of the sky": which Isaiah saw.

I think a more interesting sign would be Jupiter in the year 2022 will be the largest visible sign it has been in hundreds and hundreds of years. It just so happens that the Tribulation is Sept. 14, 2015 Feast of Trumpets to Aug. 7, Tisha B'Av, 2022 when Jesus steps down on the mount of olives.

Furthermore, the gathering of the Elect comes from both the earth and from the "heavens" which would include Paradise, the place where souls rest until called forth by Jesus. This is in complete agreement with Daniel 12:1 and John 5:24-25.

Don't confuse gathering the Jews as the elect from the four corners of the earth to be the center of all nations from where Jesus reigns in the 3rd Temple with the return of Jesus with His Holy Myriands (overcomers). Only about 1/7th of believers since Abel will return with Christ to reign during the 1000 years.

Finally, the general sequence here is that the Day of the Lord comes after the midpoint abomination of Daniel 9;27, and after the shortened Great Tribulation. This general sequence is also set forth in prophecy in Revelation 13:14-17 where the talking image of the anti-Christ is set up (as Jesus said in the Holy Place: in front of the curtain - and in the Temple as Paul wrote) and two onerous laws go forth which will literally kill off or martyr hundreds of millions of Christians!

The day of the Lord encompasses all of that which involves Jesus' return. His return begins with the first rapture "before the throne" according to readiness (Rev. 7.9; see 3.10) through the Tribulation, to meet the saints in the air at the last trumpet (1 Thess. 4.15-17, Rev. 11.15), then returns in Person on the 2,520 day (Rev. 19.11-16, Zech. 14.4).

There will not be a martyrdom of hundreds of millions of Christians. There is not even hundreds of millions of Christians on the planet today. Since, to be generations, at best 1 in 100 people on the planet today are actually born-again, that's less than 70 million. Perhaps a couple million could be martyred.

So the Scriptures do not agree with you. In other words, there is nothing to suggest the day of the Lord only encompasses half the Tribulation. Therefore, the day of the Lord is the whole parousia of Jesus from beginning to end and His millennial reign for 1000 years before the New City starts.

It is one big long day of the Lord. Hallelujah!

 

[teleiosis]

I think Saturn in 2022 is insignificant compared to the sky scrolling back across the whole of the horizon and Jesus coming with all the Saints resurrected from death.

The Jews are not the Elect; read your New Testament.

I don't think you have a clue as to what encompasses everything about our Lord's return. However, a very good sequence of events can be made from Biblical prophecy. I have done that.

There are over a billion Christians in the world today by most estimates. That's 10 hundred million. Hundreds of millions dead as the result of the Great Tribulation is not out of the question.

I presented the Scripture: you presented some fantastic idea, i.e., as in fantasy. The Day of the Lord is not seven years long according to Jesus, nor is it even three and a half years long.

As far as your topic goes, you might as well look towards some other fancy date-setting number crunching like the ones that have come up with this May, or you could use the Mayan calendar date... all of them are bound to fail.

The Millennia is not the Day of the Lord according to the things which the Bible describes as happening on that Day.

 

[noselfwilling]

I think Saturn in 2022 is insignificant compared to the sky scrolling back across the whole of the horizon and Jesus coming with all the Saints resurrected from death.

I said Jupiter not Saturn. Why did you change it to Saturn?

The Jews are not the Elect; read your New Testament.

The Jews are the elect, not the same elect as Christians. Discern the difference. Don't forget the Old Testament. God is not going to break His promise to Israel.

Matt. 24.31 This verse is the fulfillment of Matthew 23.39: “Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord”—After the Great Tribulation, the Lord will “gather together His elect”: the “elect” or “chosen” are the Jews who are scattered among the nations. “From the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other”—This does not denote rapture, for here it is the idea of erchomai, not parousia. Here is a gathering together (see Deut. 30.3-5). After the destruction of Jerusalem, the Jews were either killed or captured. They were scattered to the nations. Now, the Lord begins to call them back (see Is. 43.5-7). They shall return from the east, the west, the north, and the south. Some shall even come from the land of Sinim (Is. 49.9-13). Now Sinim means China, and in Hunan province there is a large number of Jews, who, incidentally, take the family name of Tsan. See also Isaiah 49.22-26, 51.11, 56.8, 60.4, 62.10-12, 27.13; Ezekiel 34.13, 37.21, 28.25. “From the four winds”—Wind is moving all the time: the Jews have no settled place in which to live but wander all over the world.

The gathering spoken of here is not the rapture of the church, because (1) parousia has already passed, and rapture is within the scope of parousia; (2) this is a gathering together, and hence it has no connection with parousia; (3) if it were indeed parousia it would be totally foreign to the meaning of the preceding passage; (4) by it pointing to the Jews it agrees with Matthew 23.37; (5) at the trump of God, the Lord would come to the air; and (6) the context proves to be concerning the Jews.

I don't think you have a clue as to what encompasses everything about our Lord's return. However, a very good sequence of events can be made from Biblical prophecy. I have done that.

His return timewise begins with the start of the Tribulation to His steping down on the mount of olives.

There are over a billion Christians in the world today by most estimates. That's 10 hundred million. Hundreds of millions dead as the result of the Great Tribulation is not out of the question.

You really have low standards. The Bible says many worship false Christs. That would be weird if you were a Christian just because you said were. Since there is less than 50 million Christians on the planet and only a fraction will be martyred, your numbers are too high.

Another way to look at your numbers as being wrong is the New City is on 1379 x 1379 miles about half the size of USA or India squared. About a billion souls could fit in that area comfortably. But the numbers you have saved you would have to squezze 10s of billions into such a small place. You make no sense.

I presented the Scripture: you presented some fantastic idea, i.e., as in fantasy. The Day of the Lord is not seven years long according to Jesus, nor is it even three and a half years long.

The day of the Lord is the 7 years of the Tribulation since that's when Jesus begins His return. Your Jesus doesn't. Like I said there are many false Christs out there.

As far as your topic goes, you might as well look towards some other fancy date-setting number crunching like the ones that have come up with this May, or you could use the Mayan calendar date... all of them are bound to fail.

When May rolls around the mystery planet won't be in view. It wasn't in 2003 year. It is all unfounded speculation. Nothing is going to happen in 2012 either. It's just a galactic alignment, procession alignment and solar alignment in Dec. 2012. Nothing will happen.

But what I have shown you is the first H3 (4th since Christ) and Tetrad (8th since Christ) combo since Christ and a probability of 1 in 70,000,000 I could be wrong. Those are numbers you can take to the bank. There is even a necessary earthquake that occurs just before in Rev. 6.12, the 5th worst disaster in human history. The next Tetrad is 2582/83 so this is it starting 2015.

The Millennia is not the Day of the Lord according to the things which the Bible describes as happening on that Day.

The millennium is all part of the day of the Lord from His beginning return at the start of the Tribulation through to His stepping down and His reigning for 1000 years. It's all one big Day of the Lord. Praise the Lord!

It's all happening on that day.

The Elect in Matthew 24.31.

"Ye shall not go after other gods, of the gods of the people which are round about you. For they will turn away thy son from following me, that they may serve other gods: so will the anger of the LORD be kindled against you, and destroy thee suddenly" (Deut. 6.14, 7.4). "And he brought us out from thence [Egypt], that he might bring us in, to give us the land which he sware unto our fathers" (Deut. 6.23). "And he will love thee, and bless thee, and multiply thee: he will also bless the fruit of thy womb, and the fruit of thy land, thy corn, and thy wine, and thine oil, the increase of thy kine, and the flocks of thy sheep, in the land which he sware unto thy fathers to give thee" (Deut. 7.13). God said Israel was a "stiff-necked people" (Deut. 9.6,14) that if they don't repent, the LORD "will destroy them and blot out their name under heaven. Then I will make you [Moses] into a nation stronger and more numerous than they" (v.14). But Moses pleaded with God (Deut. 9.15-29) and convinced Him to give Israel one more chance over 40 days, and Israel then did repent.

"For you are a holy people belonging to the LORD your God. The LORD your God has chosen you to be His own possession out of all the peoples on the face of the earth" (Deut. 7.6). "But He directly pays back and destroys those who hate Him. He will not hesitate to directly pay back the one who hates Him. He will inflict them on all who hate you" (vv.10,15). "All the commandments which I command thee this day shall ye observe to do, that ye may live, and multiply, and go in and possess the land which the LORD sware unto your fathers" (Deut. 8.1). "For the LORD thy God bringeth thee into a good land, a land of brooks of water, of fountains and depths that spring out of valleys and hills; A land of wheat, and barley, and vines, and fig trees, and pomegranates; a land of oil olive, and honey; A land wherein thou shalt eat bread without scarceness, thou shalt not lack any [thing] in it; a land whose stones [are] iron, and out of whose hills thou mayest dig brass. When thou hast eaten and art full, then thou shalt bless the LORD thy God for the good land which he hath given thee (Deut. 8.7-11)

"And the LORD said unto Abram, after that Lot was separated from him, Lift up now thine eyes, and look from the place where thou art northward, and southward, and eastward, and westward: For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever" (Gen. 13.14-15). "But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year" (17.21). "And, behold, the LORD stood above it, and said, I [am] the LORD God of Abraham thy father, and the God of Isaac: the land whereon thou liest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed" (28.13). What this says is Israel is the only nation on the planet that has a title deed to a particular land. No other nation can say that. The dispersion is prophesied in Deut. 28.64-67. Ezekiel 36 speaks of how the Arabs will come against Israel in the end-times. "For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land" (v.24). And God says He doesn't even do this for Israel, but He does it to prove His own glory: "Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake...and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes" (v.23,24). Amen.

"Thus saith the Lord Jehovah: I will gather you from the peoples, and assemble you out of the countries where ye have been scattered, and I will give you the land of Israel" (Ez. 11.17). "And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious. And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea" (Isaiah 11.10-11).

"Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child. Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children. Shall I bring to the birth, and not cause to bring forth? saith the LORD: shall I cause to bring forth, and shut [the womb]? saith thy God" (Isaiah 66.7-9).

"When the LORD shall build up Zion, he shall appear in his glory" (Ps. 102.16). "Go to the land of the Canaanites and to Lebanon, and all the way to the great Euphrates River. I am giving all this land to you! Go in and occupy it, for it is the land the LORD swore to give to your ancestors Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and to all their descendants.'" (Deut. 1.7c,8). "For the LORD will scatter you among the nations, where only a few of you will survive. When those bitter days have come upon you far in the future, you will finally return to the LORD your God and listen to what he tells you. For the LORD your God is merciful--he will not abandon you or destroy you or forget the solemn covenant he made with your ancestors. Search all of history, from the time God created people on the earth until now. Then search from one end of the heavens to the other. See if anything as great as this has ever happened before. Has any nation ever heard the voice of God speaking from fire--as you did--and survived? Has any other god taken one nation for himself by rescuing it from another by means of trials, miraculous signs, wonders, war, awesome power, and terrifying acts? Yet that is what the LORD your God did for you in Egypt, right before your very eyes. He showed you these things so you would realize that the LORD is God and that there is no other god. He drove out nations far greater than you, so he could bring you in and give you their land as a special possession, as it is today" (Deut. 4.27,30-35,38).

"Fear not; for I am with thee: I will bring thy seed from the east, and gather thee from the west" (Is. 43.5). "He will make a treaty with the people for a period of one set of seven, but after half this time, he will put an end to the sacrifices and offerings. Then as a climax to all his terrible deeds, he will set up a sacrilegious object that causes desecration, until the end that has been decreed is poured out on this defiler" (Dan. 9.27). For the sacrifices to cease there must be a Third Temple for them to be in. To set up an idol in the Temple there must be a a physical temple. "And the court which is outside the temple leave without, and measure it not; for it hath been given unto the nations: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months" (Rev. 11.2). "And" speaks of another court and temple, the Third Temple on Earth, not the Temple in Heaven that is measured and protected (v.1). The Third Temple will be built before the midpoint of the Tribulation. "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place [the temple], (whoso readeth, let him understand:) Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains" (Matt. 24.14-16).

"Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? And now ye know that which restraineth, to the end that he may be revealed in his own season. For the mystery of lawlessness doth already work: only [there is] one that restraineth now, until he be taken out of the way [Satan moves out of the way to let the Antichrist take hold]. And then shall that Wicked be revealed [Antichrist], whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him [Antichrist], whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion [including the mark of the beast], that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ" (2 Thess. 2.1-14).

"Who has ever seen or heard of anything as strange as this? Has a nation ever been born in a single day? Has a country ever come forth in a mere moment? But by the time Jerusalem's birth pains begin, the baby will be born; the nation will come forth" (Is. 66.8). This occurred in 1948. "And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken [it], and performed [it], saith the LORD" (Ez. 37.14; 1-14). "For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land" (Ez. 36.24).

This Land Belongs to Israel
Do you believe Israel-the elect (Matt. 24.22,24,31)-is the chosen nation (the first nation that God revealed Himself to) in which it has a covenant with God that awaits fulfillment (to be the center of all nations to the Euphrates River-Gen. 15.18), and the new covenant has been given to the Church-the elect (Rom. 8.33, 2 Tim. 2.10, 1 Pet. 1.2)-beforehand? "Whenever the Israelites planted crops, the Midianites, Amalekites, and eastern peoples came and attacked them. They encamped against them and destroyed the produce of the land, even as far as Gaza. They left nothing for Israel to eat, as well as no sheep, ox or donkey. For the Midiantes came with their cattle and their tents like a great swarm of locusts. They and their camels were without number, and they entered the land to waste it" (Judges 6.3-5). "I will drive them out little by little ahead of you until you have become numerous and take possession of the land. I will set your borders from the Red Sea [Gulf of Aqaba], and from the wilderness to the Mediterranean Sea [the Sea of the Philistines], and from the wilderness to the Euphrates River. I will place the inhabitants of the land under your control, and you will drive them out ahead of you. You must not make a covenant with them or their gods. They must not remain in your land, or elese they will make you sin against Me. If you worship their gods it will be a snare for you" (Ex. 23.30-33).

"He [Jacob] dreamed, and behold a ladder set up on the earth, and the top of it reached to heaven; and behold the angels of God ascending and descending on it! The LORD stood above it and said, 'I am the LORD, the God of Abraham your father and the God of Isaac; the land on which you are sleeping on I will give to you and your descendants....I will bring you back to this land'....Jacob awoke from his sleep and said, 'Surely the LORD is in this place....This is none other than the house of God, and this is the gate of heaven'" (Gen. 28.12-22). Jacob said to Joseph, "When I rest with my fathers, carry me...and bury me where they are buried" (Gen. 47.30), for "God Almighty appeared unto me...in the land of Canaan, and blessed me, and said unto me, 'I will give this land to your descendants after you for an everlasting possession'" (Gen. 48.3,4; see Ex. 6.8). "He remembered His covenant with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. God saw the Israelites, and He took notice" (Ex. 2.24,25). "I have come down to rescue them from the power of the Egyptians and to bring them from the land to a good and spacious land, a land flowing with milk and honey-the territory of the Canaanites, Hittites, Amorites, Perizzites, Hivites, and Jebusites" (Ex. 3.8,17; 24.23,28; Deut. 20.17; Gen. 15.19-21, Deut. 7.1). "The law, which came 430 years later, does not revoke a covenant that was previously ratified with God, so as to cancel the promise" (Gal. 3.17) either to Israel, or to the seed of Abraham, referring to Christ (v.16). "LORD, You have prepared the place for Your dwelling" (Ex. 15.17) in Israel for "the people whom You purchased" (v.16). Israel was "few in number; if they unite against me and attack me, I and my household will be destroyed" (Gen. 34.30) before going to Egypt, but "Jacob said to his family and all who were with him, 'Get rid of the foreign gods that are among you. Purify yourselves..." (Gen. 35.2). Abraham was small in number when "he assembled his 318 trained men born in his household" (Gen. 14.14). "In the fourth generation they [Israel] will return here, for the iniquity of the Amorites has not yet reached its full measure" (Gen. 15.16).

The Bible also says how you treat the little brother Israel God will bring His wrath upon you.

 

[teleiosis]

Go your own way No-self-willing.

I will not participate in this thread again; I don't agree at all with your ideas.

 

[noselfwilling]

Go your own way No-self-willing.

I will not participate in this thread again; I don't agree at all with your ideas.

Actually this is my thread.

I am sad to hear you reject all these verses that speak of Israel as God's chosen nation from where He will reign in the 3rd Temple for the millennial kingdom.

How you treat our little brother the Jews, God will have something to say about your attitude I am sure.

Though it is not Israel but overcomer believers in Christ who return (Jude 14,15) and reign as kings and priests in the millennial kingdom in Revelation 20.

Replacement theology is the theology of the great harlot of religious Rome, the Roman Church who makes drunk the nations with the wine of the wrath of her fornications (Rev. 14.8) as she sits on the beast of nations (ch. 17). Satan is trying to thwart God's promise to the first nation he revealed Himself that was enslaved for 430 years.

 

[Doppleganger]

I really didn't want to weigh in here, I've read all your stuff noselfwilling, It seem rather well researched.

Calendars do change, but this is just a perception. Orphicus is now cited as the 13th constellation, for example.

I also wanna apologize to TOM. here.

Although, I DO NOT BELIEVE in the RAPTURE, noselfwilling, I'm impressed with your work, and even thoughtfulness at times.

It amazes me just how divided people can become on just about any issue.

You all may find this interesting ->

http://www.worldslas...set-asideq.html

http://www.articlesb...de-3804638.html

It is true that the Jews have never lost track of the true Sabbath. However, by their own admission, the Jews deliberately and knowingly changed their calendar by which the true Sabbath was calculated. During the fourth century C.E., persecution of all who used the Biblical calendar for worship was so intense that, in the end, the Jews gave up their calendar handed down from Creation through Moses and adopted a calendar adjusted for worship on the Julian calendar.

The Jews are very open that their original calendar was set aside under intense Roman persecution of all who used the Biblical calendar in the fourth century C.E. "Under the reign of Constantius (337-362) the persecutions of the Jews reached such a height that . . . the computation of the calendar [was] forbidden under pain of severe punishment." (1)

There are three main areas in which the original calendar differs from the counterfeit:
* The Creator's calendar is luni-solar. This means that the year is solar, but the months are lunar, following the lunar cycle.
* The year originally began with new life in the spring at the time of the barley harvest. The Julian/Gregorian counterfeits, being solar calendars, honor the sun god as they begin the year just after the "rebirth" of the sun god at the winter solstice. (2)
* The biggest difference between the counterfeits and the genuine calendar is found in the weekly cycle. The pagan Julian/Gregorian calendars have a continuous weekly cycle.
* The original calendar established at Creation does not. The weekly cycle restarts with each new moon.

These facts are freely admitted by Jewish scholars. Rabbi Louis Finklestein of the Jewish Theological Seminary of America, was selected by the Kehillas (Jewish Communities) of the World as one of the 120 top Jews who best represented "a lamp of Judaism" to the world. In a letter to Dr. L. E. Froom, dated Feb. 20, 1939, Finklestein readily admitted, "The present Jewish calendar was fixed in the fourth century." (3) Maimonides and most other Jewish chronologers agree that the modern Jewish calendar is based upon the "mean motions of the sun and moon, the true [calendar] having been set aside."

The Hebrew calendar was one of both calculation and observation. The moon is extremely precise and accurate. Even the various anomalies due to her elliptical orbit can be predicted. With advanced astronomical knowledge, which the ancients possessed, the luni-solar calendar is both exact and predictable allowing past and future calculation. The beauty of this method of calendation, however, is that the shepherd on the hillside, with no astronomical knowledge whatsoever, can still use it by observation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shmita


http://home.comcast....3319/Jasher.htm
ETC, ETC ... Anyways, Boondogglers like this Guy, also point to this as being false. Yet they still don't understand that, that they are actually proving the Bible is more ancient & accurate, than skeptics care to admit!?! Go figure. LOL

http://en.wikipedia..../Nebra_sky_disk

Please try and be more Kind to each other, It won't kill you if you do.

 

[noselfwilling]

I DO NOT BELIEVE in the RAPTURE, noselfwilling, I'm impressed with your work, and even thoughtfulness at times.

How do the saints get to heaven "before the throne" (Rev. 7.9) if they are not raptured?

 

[noselfwilling]

I think that's irrelevant. Saturday today is Saturday and that's never going to change. The day of a week is established so whether the past has been changed and a Saturday is really a Thursday, who cares. Why? Because the Bible says let no man judge you by what days to keep.

There is no more Sabbath. Otherwise you would have to kill people who worked on one of these days of the week.

 

[noselfwilling]

When you have a 1 in 70,000,000 probability and the first H3 (4th since Christ) -Tetrad (8th since Christ) combo since Christ after the Tetrad fell on the 1949/50 (6th since Christ) and 1967/68 (7th since Christ), what more do you need for 2014/15 and that there won't be another Tetrad till 2582/83. 2520 days for 2014 to 2021 don't fit but 2015 to 2022 fits pefectly.

Just sitting here thinking what other amazing signs there could be for Revelation 12 right before the Tribulation I can think of none. Haiti 2010 already qualikes for the Rev. 6.12 earthquake. I guess if you wanted to be even more impressed if that were even possible you might consider another earthquake which would have to be anywhere from 2011 to 2013, but I think Hait was it (5th worst disaster in human history).

What more do you need?