Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so a 1000 yr reign on this earth is false

CadyandZoe · 2025-04-21T14:40:41-0500

covenantee said:
What happened to Amos 9:9 which you referenced previously?

What/who is your definition of "grain" in Amos 9:9?

You can imagine what it would be like, can't you? God tells the nation of Israel that they will be taken captive into other nations. Can you imagine what it would mean if an uncle, aunt, grandparent, best friend, or favorite teacher was lost among the captives. Would they ever be seen again?

The grain represents the citizens of Israel living at the time when the exile takes place.

WPM · 2025-04-21T15:13:27-0500

CadyandZoe said:
What you say here shows that you take my posts seriously and have no answer.

The opposite is the truth

CadyandZoe · 2025-04-21T15:15:55-0500

Zao is life said:
1 Peter 2 - still speaking to the same people:

9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

Yes, Peter is addressing the Diaspora, who were members of the Northern Kingdom of Israel. He quotes Hosea, where he writes that while the 10 Tribes were once known as "not my people," they will eventually be called "my people."

We need a bit of background in order to understand this prophecy. Solomon's son was Rehoboam. He became the king of Judah after Solomon's reign. However, his rule marked the division of the united Kingdom of Israel into two separate kingdoms: the northern kingdom of Israel and the southern kingdom of Judah, due to his unwise decisions regarding the demands of his people. It's an interesting and pivotal moment in biblical history!

Hosea primarily addressed the Northern Kingdom of Israel, also referred to as Ephraim in the text. His prophecies focused on Israel's unfaithfulness to God, idolatry, and the resulting judgment. The Northern Kingdom had turned away from God's covenant and pursued alliances with foreign nations and false gods.

God referred to the Northern Kingdom of Israel as "Lo-Ammi," which means "not my people" in Hebrew. This declaration symbolized a severing of the covenant relationship between God and Israel due to their persistent unfaithfulness and idol worship.

Despite the judgment, God’s ultimate plan was always one of restoration. In Hosea 2:23, God declares: "I will say to those called 'Not My People,' 'You are My People'; and they will say, 'You are my God.'" This moment captures the depth of God's mercy and His desire to renew the relationship with His people.

Hosea's prophecy indicates that, after facing judgment and exile, the Northern Kingdom of Israel will experience a transformation of heart and spirit. When God declares, "You are My People", it signifies not only His forgiveness but also Israel's return to Him in faithfulness and repentance. Peter draws on this transformative theme in his first epistle.

Zao is life said:
You are reading into 1 Peter 1:1 something that according to you all who read the scriptures can see - but actually, you are one of the very few who "sees" what you see.

Most people are told what to see.

Zao is life said:
because IF it's referring to Israel at all, it's referring to a very mixed Gentile / descendants of "Ephraim" group of people.

Ephraim was not a Gentile. He was the son of Joseph, the son of Jacob and Rachel.

Zao is life said:
But you say Peter is referring to the Jewish diaspora.

Yes, they were members of the Northern Tribes who were taken into Exile by Assyria. As an example, The Samaritans primarily descended from the northern tribes of Israel, particularly Ephraim and Manasseh, and they lived in the region of Samaria. After the Assyrian conquest of the Northern Kingdom in 722 BCE, many Israelites were exiled, and the Assyrians brought new populations into the land. These groups intermingled with the remaining Israelites, and over time, the Samaritans developed a distinct identity.

Zao is life said:
Peter was talking to people who according to the way the NetFree version puts it, were temporarily residing in the areas he mentions - Peter specifically calls them SOJOURNERS. There's nothing metaphorical about sojourners. It's a massive assumption to say he was talking only to the "Jewish diaspora" in the region who happened to all believe in Christ.

On the contrary, Peter's reference to a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, and a people for God's own possession are well-understood concepts found in the Hebrew Scriptures. It is a wildly imaginative stretch to conclude that Peter is talking to anyone other than his kinsmen. One would need to totally ignore the entire Old Testament to conclude otherwise.

Zao is life said:
No, that's not true at all. The Hebrew scriptures were the only scriptures that existed for the church - Jew or Gentile - at the time Peter wrote his letter. The New Testament was still in the process of being compiled - and Peter's letter is only one of the letters to the Christians who were SOJOURNING in the region which eventually became part of the Christian Bible Canon.

Again, Peter explicitly says that he is writing to the diaspora, which refers to the people of the Northern Tribes. It makes sense for Peter to call them sojourners. Contrary to common sense, if he were writing to the Gentiles, he wouldn't refer to them as foreigners, or sojourners since they are living at home.

The Gentiles were not foreigners in their own country. That makes no sense.

Zao is life said:
The moment Gentiles came to faith in Christ they began to be taught about the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob - from the Hebrew scriptures, and no doubt the Septuagint was used more than anything else outside of Judea and Samaria.

The moment when people of the Northern Tribes came to faith, they didn't cease being people of the Northern Tribes.

Zao is life said:
Same for any people called to be holy - and your definition of "holy" has different types of holy - which is also non-biblical. Holy means "set apart unto God" and anyone set apart unto God is supposed to live a moral lifestyle. Being set apart unto God (holy) naturally includes moral holiness.

The definition of "holy" has nothing to do with morality or righteousness. It simply refers to a group of people that God called out of Egypt and took to be his own people.

Zao is life said:
We cannot just make assumptions and then add those assumption to scripture - and you are making assumptions about this text and adding your assumptions to scripture.

I have not added anything to scripture.

Spiritual Israelite · 2025-04-21T15:18:28-0500

CadyandZoe said:
What you say here shows that you take my posts seriously and have no answer.

I don't reply to your posts for your benefit, but for the benefit of others who might be following along and may be confused by your nonsense. So, no, I don't take some of your posts seriously such as that one. And, I have offered an answer by showing you who God's holy people are and you refuse to accept it.

CadyandZoe · 2025-04-21T15:29:45-0500

covenantee said:
All people in Christ, Jew and Gentile alike, are holy people.

Of course. I said as much.

covenantee said:
All people outside of Christ, Jew and Gentile alike, are unholy people.

This is false. When God brought the families related to the Patriarchs out of Egypt, he called them "Holy People."

Deuteronomy 7:6, 14:2 For you are a holy people to the Lord your God; the Lord your God has chosen you to be a people for His own possession out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth.

covenantee said:
God is not a racist.

Your appeal to emotion is unconvincing. God chose to make David the King of Israel. Not only this, God decided that no other person could be crowned king of Israel other than a man in David's lineage. God was not concerned about decreeing primogeniture as the sole basis for kingship over Israel. As we see above, God was not immoral in decreeing that Jacob's descendants were a holy people.

Try to understand the ideas and concepts as they are presented in the Bible.

covenantee · 2025-04-21T16:03:27-0500

CadyandZoe said:
Of course. I said as much.

This is false. When God brought the families related to the Patriarchs out of Egypt, he called them "Holy People."

Deuteronomy 7:6, 14:2 For you are a holy people to the Lord your God; the Lord your God has chosen you to be a people for His own possession out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth.

Your appeal to emotion is unconvincing. God chose to make David the King of Israel. Not only this, God decided that no other person could be crowned king of Israel other than a man in David's lineage. God was not concerned about decreeing primogeniture as the sole basis for kingship over Israel. As we see above, God was not immoral in decreeing that Jacob's descendants were a holy people.

Try to understand the ideas and concepts as they are presented in the Bible.

Numbers 25
9 And those that died in the plague were twenty and four thousand.

Were they holy?

Try to stop replacing God's ageless Covenant requirements of faith and obedience, with "seed flesh".

covenantee · 2025-04-21T16:14:46-0500

CadyandZoe said:
You can imagine what it would be like, can't you? God tells the nation of Israel that they will be taken captive into other nations. Can you imagine what it would mean if an uncle, aunt, grandparent, best friend, or favorite teacher was lost among the captives. Would they ever be seen again?

The grain represents the citizens of Israel living at the time when the exile takes place.

Is that all citizens, both righteous and unrighteous?

And what is your definition of "fall" in Amos 9:9?

Zao is life · 2025-04-21T16:27:48-0500

CadyandZoe said:
Yes, Peter is addressing the Diaspora, who were members of the Northern Kingdom of Israel. He quotes Hosea, where he writes that while the 10 Tribes were once known as "not my people," they will eventually be called "my people."

We need a bit of background in order to understand this prophecy. Solomon's son was Rehoboam. He became the king of Judah after Solomon's reign. However, his rule marked the division of the united Kingdom of Israel into two separate kingdoms: the northern kingdom of Israel and the southern kingdom of Judah, due to his unwise decisions regarding the demands of his people. It's an interesting and pivotal moment in biblical history!

Hosea primarily addressed the Northern Kingdom of Israel, also referred to as Ephraim in the text. His prophecies focused on Israel's unfaithfulness to God, idolatry, and the resulting judgment. The Northern Kingdom had turned away from God's covenant and pursued alliances with foreign nations and false gods.

God referred to the Northern Kingdom of Israel as "Lo-Ammi," which means "not my people" in Hebrew. This declaration symbolized a severing of the covenant relationship between God and Israel due to their persistent unfaithfulness and idol worship.

Despite the judgment, God’s ultimate plan was always one of restoration. In Hosea 2:23, God declares: "I will say to those called 'Not My People,' 'You are My People'; and they will say, 'You are my God.'" This moment captures the depth of God's mercy and His desire to renew the relationship with His people.

Hosea's prophecy indicates that, after facing judgment and exile, the Northern Kingdom of Israel will experience a transformation of heart and spirit. When God declares, "You are My People", it signifies not only His forgiveness but also Israel's return to Him in faithfulness and repentance. Peter draws on this transformative theme in his first epistle.

Most people are told what to see.

Ephraim was not a Gentile. He was the son of Joseph, the son of Jacob and Rachel.

Yes, they were members of the Northern Tribes who were taken into Exile by Assyria. As an example, The Samaritans primarily descended from the northern tribes of Israel, particularly Ephraim and Manasseh, and they lived in the region of Samaria. After the Assyrian conquest of the Northern Kingdom in 722 BCE, many Israelites were exiled, and the Assyrians brought new populations into the land. These groups intermingled with the remaining Israelites, and over time, the Samaritans developed a distinct identity.

On the contrary, Peter's reference to a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, and a people for God's own possession are well-understood concepts found in the Hebrew Scriptures. It is a wildly imaginative stretch to conclude that Peter is talking to anyone other than his kinsmen. One would need to totally ignore the entire Old Testament to conclude otherwise.

Again, Peter explicitly says that he is writing to the diaspora, which refers to the people of the Northern Tribes. It makes sense for Peter to call them sojourners. Contrary to common sense, if he were writing to the Gentiles, he wouldn't refer to them as foreigners, or sojourners since they are living at home.

The Gentiles were not foreigners in their own country. That makes no sense.

The moment when people of the Northern Tribes came to faith, they didn't cease being people of the Northern Tribes.

The definition of "holy" has nothing to do with morality or righteousness. It simply refers to a group of people that God called out of Egypt and took to be his own people.

I have not added anything to scripture.

I'm not shouting at you below, nor am I angry. I'm writing things in bold and in capital letters for emphasis because what I emphasize is important and shows your ignorance and the holes in your belief about this:-

(1) NONE of the ten tribes of Israel that belonged to the northern kingdom were Jews. Nor were they EVER called "Jews" in the Old Testament. They were collectively called "Ephraim".

(2) The descendants of "Ephraim" had 700 years of being mixed with Gentiles through intermarriage from the time they began to be called "Not a nation" by God, and the prophecy regarding their exile and scattering became reality.

It is very, very unlikely that there were any groups in the Roman Empire outside of Samaria who still identified themselves as "Ephraim" in the 1st century - and even if there were,

they would not have regarded themselves as Jews, and the Jews of the 1st century would most certainly NOT have regarded them as Jews, or called them "Jews". The Jews were "Judahites" and Benjamites, of the Southern kingdom, - the Southern kingdom THAT HAD OBTAINED MERCY AT THE TIME THE NORTHERN KINGDOM DID NOT OBTAIN MERCY (Hosea 1:7):

Hosea 1
6 And she conceived again, and bare a daughter. And God said unto him, Call her name Lo–ruhamah: for I will no more have mercy upon the house of Israel; but I will utterly take them away.
7 But I will have mercy upon the house of Judah (THE JEWS). and will save them by Yhwh their God, and will not save them by bow, nor by sword, nor by battle, by horses, nor by horsemen.
8 Now when she had weaned Lo–ruhamah, she conceived, and bare a son.
9 Then said God, Call his name Lo–ammi: for ye are not my people, and I will not be your God."

@CadyandZoe ISRAEL CONTINUED TO EXIST ONLY THROUGH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH. "NOT MY PEOPLE" WAS NEVER EVER TALKING ABOUT "THE JEWS". THEY ("THE JEWS") WERE NEVER CUT OFF FROM BEING A NATION BEFORE GOD - NOT EVEN AT THE TIME OF CHRIST - BECAUSE A REMNANT OF JUDAH WAS SAVED, AND GENTILE BELIEVERS BEGAN TO BE GRAFTED IN AMONG THE REMNANT.

PAUL INCLUDED GENTILES IN THE FULFILLMENT OF THE PROPHECY IN HOSEA TALKING ABOUT THOSE WHO WERE NOT HIS PEOPLE BEING CALLED THE SONS OF THE LIVING GOD (ROMANS 9).

THE REST OF JUDAH / ISRAEL WERE BROKEN OFF BECAUSE OF THEIR REJECTION OF CHRIST. BUT ISRAEL DID NOT CEASE TO EXIST AS A NATION (AS "EPHRAIM HAD IN THE 8TH CENTURY BC) - BECAUSE OF THE REMNANT OF THE JEWS.

(3) There was a lot of persecution of Christians going on in the first century. You cannot assume that Gentile Christians were never forced to flee their homes and had become sojourners scattered in the region identified by Peter.

(4) Neither can you assume that Peter was talking to Christians who had been forced to flee their homes during a period of persecution of Christians in the Roman Empire and hence had become sojourners scattered in that region. You can ONLY ASSUME Peter was talking to Christians (period).

(5) Peter resided in Jerusalem and was fully aware of how Paul had picked up the ire of Jewish believers in Jerusalem who were very legalistic and opposed Paul's teaching about the law - it's ALL written about in Acts, as well as the fact that Peter did whatever he could to avoid the ire of the same legalistic Jewish party - because he resided among them in Jerusalem and it was from Jerusalem he went to visit Paul in Antioch.

Peter was not likely to write to either Jewish people OR people who had been cut off from being a nation before God CALLING THEM ISRAEL and telling them that they had received an empty way of life from their fathers and had not received mercy but now had obtained mercy - and knowing the Jewish prejudice of the Samaritans who WERE A MIXED GROUP OF PEOPLE DESCENDED FROM "EPHRAIM" who lived right next door to the Jews in Judea, PETER WAS NOT LIKELY TO CALL THEM "A ROYAL PRIESTHOOD AND A HOLY NATION" etc etc - because ALL Jews who could, were required to make THREE annual pilgrimages to Jerusalem for the festivals

and that is exactly how the Jews in Jerusalem all got to hear about what Paul was teaching the Gentiles about the law - which eventually got him arrested in Jerusalem, and marked the end of his freedom to move about at will for the rest of his life, because from then on he remained under house arrest.

JEWS did NOT regard the descendants of the house of Israel a.k.a "Ephraim" as a nation before God. THEY WERE NOT CONSIDERED PART OF ISRAEL AND HAD NOT BEEN CONSIDERED PART OF ISRAEL FOR 700 YEARS. THEY HAD BEEN LABELLED "NOT A NATION" AND "NOT A PEOPLE" AND "NOT MY PEOPLE" BY GOD.

Jews did NOT regard them as Jews, and they were NO LONGER part of Israel - by the decree OF GOD.

-- and Jewish HISTORY has ONLY the Samaritans who resided in Samaria as people who could trace their ancestry to the ten tribes of the Northern kingdom. THERE WERE NO OTHERS. + THERE IS NO ROMAN HISTORY TO SUGGEST THERE WERE SUCH GROUPS IN THE ROMAN EMPIRE OUTSIDE OF SAMARIA.

The people Peter was writing to were Christians. THERE IS NO WORD IN THE TEXT TO SUGGEST THEY WERE A JEWISH OR AN "ISRAELITE, EPHRAIMITE, NORTHERN KINGDOM" "DIASPORA". YOU HAVE ASSUMED THAT, AND INSERTED IT INTO THE TEXT.

It's far more likely that Peter was writing to Gentile Christians who, during a period of Christian persecution, had been forced to flee their own homes and towns and had become sojourners scattered throughout the regions and towns Peter was identifying.

Spiritual Israelite · 2025-04-21T16:41:14-0500

covenantee said:
Numbers 25
9 And those that died in the plague were twenty and four thousand.

Were they holy?

Try to stop replacing God's ageless Covenant requirements of faith and obedience, with "seed flesh".

Right. And were the Pharisees and scribes that Jesus repeatedly called hypocrites and snakes while asking them how they would escape hell considered to be holy? Clearly not. So, God's holy people are only those who believe and never those who don't.

covenantee · 2025-04-21T19:20:57-0500

CadyandZoe said:
This is false. When God brought the families related to the Patriarchs out of Egypt, he called them "Holy People."

Deuteronomy 7:6, 14:2 For you are a holy people to the Lord your God; the Lord your God has chosen you to be a people for His own possession out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth.

This is true. When God mandated the composition of Israel, He included Gentiles faithful and obedient to Him and His Covenant.

God was not and is not a racist.

Stop trying to contort Him into one.

Genesis 17:12
And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.

Exodus 12:48
And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the Lord, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof.

Exodus 12:49
One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.

Leviticus 19:34
But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God.

Leviticus 24:22
Ye shall have one manner of law, as well for the stranger, as for one of your own country: for I am the Lord your God.

WPM · 2025-04-21T21:22:17-0500

Doug said:
I cant say anything more than it being for reconciliation........Israel will be back under the law as seen by the new covenant Jer 31:31 that may be a reason for sacrifices

Reconciliation to what or who?

WPM · 2025-04-21T21:52:41-0500

David in NJ said:
You are stumped!!!

You are describing yourself. More pettiness.

WPM · 2025-04-21T22:18:07-0500

Doug said:
we are heirs of Abraham's seed Christ........we are heirs of Christ not Abraham

Christ responded to the ignorance of the Jewish leaders: “If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham. But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham. Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God. Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it” (vv 39-44).

Our Savior hits these religious imposters clean between the eyes with marksman’s accuracy and sobering truth. Firstly, He informed them that they had no right to consider themselves as “Abraham's children.” He advanced: “If ye were Abraham's children” speaking in a spiritual sense, and “If God were your Father” also speaking spiritually, “ye would love me.” What He was telling them was: if you truly were Abraham’s children then your life and conduct would be like him and his. He was telling them that behavior reveals identity. He goes even further, He informs them that the evidence of them being true children of Abraham is demonstrated by them loving Him. This is the litmus test of who is a true child of Abraham and what it is to be part of God’s chosen people.

Secondly, He identifies their true father as Satan. This would have been explosive and offensive to these proud religiously Jewish leaders. Jesus demonstrated that favor with Him didn’t come through natural pedigree but rather spiritual pedigree. Those Jews who rejected God’s offer of salvation were not under blessing but under a curse. They were not in any way considered as God’s chosen people. They were children of the devil and they were heading to hell.

If the modern-day Futurist were in this position, they would likely have embraced these same religious charlatans, and lauded them as “God’s chosen people.” This shows the degree of deception that has infiltrated evangelical Protestantism since the introduction of Dispensationalism in 1830. The truth has been subtly and sharply turned on its head.

Christ’s encounter with a Gentile Roman centurion in Matthew 8 sparked an incredible response from the Lord. Jesus was so impressed with this Gentile’s faith that He used it as an opportunity to speak about the blessing of God incorporating the Gentiles on a global scale. He then, in turn, showed their resulting blending with Abraham’s believing family. Of course, this was the fulfillment of ancient prophecies made to Abraham himself in Genesis 12:1-3, 17:3-8, 18:18 and 22:16-18.

Jesus said: “I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven. But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth” (Matthew 8:11-12).

Here Christ adeptly contrasts the fate of unbelieving Israel to that of the believing Gentiles. The “many” here that “shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob” are those from every nation who have followed Christ in salvation. The “sons of the kingdom,” are the Jews who cling to the old covenant structure and reject Christ. We should not overlook the context here. It was the faith of the Gentile centurion that prompted Jesus to make this statement. When Jesus predicted that “many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven” Jesus was talking about the enlightenment that all nations would experience through the cross-work. The mainly Gentile New Testament assembly was spiritual linked to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, through the work of Christ and became a multinational extension of the remnant people of Israel. This prophecy predicts the incorporation of Gentiles into the Israeli fold through the life and work of Christ.

This telling instruction reminds us of the impotence of natural Jewish pedigree without Christ. It also equally shows us the continuity that exists between God’s people in both testaments through faith in Christ. It reminds us that race means nothing when it comes to salvation. Jesus, here, describes the eternal state where Abraham will enjoy spiritual union and communion with New Testament Gentile believers. These two groups, from two different eras, are at one with each other. There is not a hint of division between the Old Testament Patriarchs and the believing Gentiles here. On the other hand, those natural children of Abraham who rejected Jesus possess no connection whatsoever with either Abraham or Christ in the eternal state. Their ethnicity was not enough to earn them everlasting life. They are therefore no different from any other unregenerate. They ended up in the same devil’s hell.

Christ’s encounter with a Gentile Roman centurion in Matthew 8 sparked an incredible response from the Lord. Jesus was so impressed with this Gentile’s faith that He used it as an opportunity to speak about the blessing of God incorporating the Gentiles on a global scale. He then, in turn, showed their resulting blending with Abraham’s believing family. Of course, this was the fulfillment of ancient prophecies made to Abraham himself in Genesis 12:1-3, 17:3-8, 18:18 and 22:16-18.

In Genesis 17:5-7 we also learn: “thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee. And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.”

The ingathering of the Gentiles was no afterthought on God’s part, but, was rather, integral to His universal plan for mankind from the beginning. Genesis 18:18 says, “the LORD said, Shall I hide from Abraham that thing which I do; Seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him?”

This is a recurring theme in God’s promises to Abraham and Sarah, and Isaac and Jacob, throughout the book of Genesis. Genesis 22:16-18 details: “By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son: That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies; And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.”

Galatians 3:7-9 says, “Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.”

This text couldn’t be clearer. The Gospel was alive and active in Abraham’s day. It produced the same fruit then as it does today: it engendered faith! From God’s perspective, God’s chosen people have always been a people of faith. Faith in what or who? Faith in the Messiah Jesus Christ. It is hence obvious that many modern commentators are either ignorant of Scripture or else they are in willful revolt against its repeated and crystal-clear instruction. The deception that exists on this subject is widespread.

Not one person in the Old Testament was saved by Abrahamic birthright, keeping the Law, or through participation in the old covenant sacrificial system.

WPM · 2025-04-21T22:33:09-0500

Doug said:
because of this verse...........[Eze 36:24 KJV] 24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land........this is future

we are in the dispensation of grace.....Israel is saved today by grace and believing the gospel revealed to Paul

Every time NT Scripture is presented to you, you dismiss it with your faulty view of OT Scripture. This is another traits that sums up your approach to biblical interpretation. You have no answer for the NT.

WPM · 2025-04-21T22:34:06-0500

Doug said:
because of this verse...........[Eze 36:24 KJV] 24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land........this is future

we are in the dispensation of grace.....Israel is saved today by grace and believing the gospel revealed to Paul

What covenant are we under now - the old covenant or the new?

WPM · 2025-04-21T22:40:31-0500

Doug said:
yes Christ secured the new covenant but it wont be made til the future

You reject the new covenant. How sad! This is a mixture of theological gibberish and gross heresy.

WPM · 2025-04-21T22:49:01-0500

Doug said:
[Mat 26:28 KJV] 28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Does your Bible translation say new TESTAMENT or new COVENANT? Christ shed his blood for the new testament which is somewhat distinct from a covenant.........Christ didnt shed blood to fulfill the new covenant.......a covenant didnt always require death, a testament does [Heb 9:16 KJV] 16 For where a testament [is], there must also of necessity be the death of the testator......a testament requries blood [Heb 9:22 KJV] 22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission...........Jesus had to shed his blood to allow God to be just in forgiving Israel in the new covenant,,,,,,,,,,,,the new covenant is only made for Israel.....[Jer 31:31 KJV] 31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:.......the new covenant will be fulfilled when Israel is in their promised land [Eze 36:24 KJV] 24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

This gets worst. You deny the cross. You deny the atonement. You deny the reality of the new covenant. You are truly clueless to basic NT truth. None of us can enlighten you. You need the Holy Spirit.

WPM · 2025-04-21T23:15:59-0500

CadyandZoe said:
Please consider the argument itself.

While the Cross indeed inaugurated the New Covenant God would make with the two houses, Jesus also said that their house would be left desolate to them. This clearly indicates that the New Covenant has not yet been kept with those houses.

Remember, making a covenant is one thing, but performing the tasks specified in the covenant is another.

What? He came to Israel. He made the covenant with His redeemed. Those who had eyes to see (God's elect, true Israel - the holy remnant) got it. We Gentiles have been grafted into believing Israel. Blind (unbelieving) Israel are apostate, they are of their father the devil, and destined for hell.

WPM · 2025-04-21T23:27:55-0500

CadyandZoe said:
The concepts of spirit and soul are intrinsically linked to our physical body; they cannot exist independently or in isolation. In the absence of a body, they become void, non-existent. Upon death, a person's consciousness ceases to be, marking the end of their earthly experience. This perspective aligns with the teachings of Jesus, who, through his interactions with the Pharisees, emphasizes the notion that true existence is found "in him," signifying our connection to the divine. In essence, when we pass away, we reside in the thoughts and intentions of God, awaiting the promise of resurrection, where we are brought to life anew.

Where does the soul/spirit go?

WPM · 2025-04-21T23:35:07-0500

Spiritual Israelite said:
I'm surprised you are asking this. Do you not see what happened at Pentecost as being unprecedented? You think the Holy Spirit was poured out and came to dwell in people before that?

I don't believe that the OT saints were regenerated in the same way that believers have been since the day of Pentecost. Why would Jesus have said this if this was something that had already been happening in OT times?

Read these.

Speaking of Joseph in Genesis 41:38, we learn, “And Pharaoh said unto his servants, Can we find such a one as this is, a man in whom the Spirit of God is?”

Exodus 28:3 says, “thou shalt speak unto all that are wise hearted, whom I have filled with the spirit of wisdom, that they may make Aaron's garments to consecrate him, that he may minister unto me in the priest's office.”

Exodus 31:3 says, “And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, See, I have called by name Bezaleel the son of Uri, the son of Hur, of the tribe of Judah And I have filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, and in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship.”

Numbers 14:24 says, “my servant Caleb, because he had another spirit with him, and hath followed me fully, him will I bring into the land whereinto he went; and his seed shall possess it.”

Even before succeeding Moses, Joshua was filled with the Spirit. Numbers 27:18 tells us, “And the LORD said unto Moses, Take thee Joshua the son of Nun, a man in whom is the spirit, and lay thine hand upon him.”

Deuteronomy 34:9 says, “Joshua the son of Nun was full of the spirit of wisdom; for Moses had laid his hands upon him: and the children of Israel hearkened unto him, and did as the LORD commanded Moses.”

Nehemiah 9:30 confirms, “Yet many years didst thou forbear them, and testifiedst against them by thy spirit in thy prophets: yet would they not give ear: therefore gavest thou them into the hand of the people of the lands.”

David declares in Psalm 51:10, “Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me. Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.”

Isaiah 63:11 says, “he remembered the days of old, Moses, and his people, saying, Where is he that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of his flock? Where is he (God) that put his Holy Spirit within him (Moses)?"

Ezekiel 2:2 testified, “the spirit entered into me when he spake unto me, and set me upon my feet, that I heard him that spake unto me.

Ezekiel 36:26-27 says, “A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.”

Ezekiel 37:14 says, “And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it, saith the LORD."

Daniel 6:3 says, “Then this Daniel was preferred above the presidents and princes, because an excellent spirit was in him; and the king thought to set him over the whole realm."

Micah 3:8 testified, “I am full of power by the spirit of the LORD, and of judgment, and of might, to declare unto Jacob his transgression, and to Israel his sin.”

Luke 1:13-17, “the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John. And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth. For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb. And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God. And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.”

Luke 1:41 records of John’s mother, “Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost.”

Luke 1:67 records of John’s mother, “Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost.”

John 20:21-23 records of Christ’s impartation of the Holy Spirit to the disciples prior to Pentecost, “he breathed on them, and saith unto them, receive ye the Holy Ghost: Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.”

1 Peter 1:7-12 explicitly states, speaking to the New Testament saints about our common salvation in Christ, with the OT saints, “the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ: Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory: Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls. Of which salvation the prophets have inquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: Searching what, or what manner of time the spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.”

Possessing “the spirit of Christ” is expressly identified with the ‘indwelling’ of the Spirit in Romans 8:9, where the passage says of God’s elect, “you are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the spirit of Christ, he is none of his.”

The condition for salvation, throughout all time is possession of “the spirit of Christ.” Ephesians 3:14-21 says, “I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, of whom the whole family in heaven (Old Testament and New Testament saints up until today) and earth (Jew and Gentile) is named, That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man; that Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God …Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end."

1 Corinthians 10:1 & 4 says, “I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea ... And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.”

Hebrews 11:23-26 says, “By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter; Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season; esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward.”

Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so a 1000 yr reign on this earth is false

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Similar threads