Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so a 1000 yr reign on this earth is false

[CadyandZoe]

What happened to Amos 9:9 which you referenced previously?

What/who is your definition of "grain" in Amos 9:9?

You can imagine what it would be like, can't you? God tells the nation of Israel that they will be taken captive into other nations. Can you imagine what it would mean if an uncle, aunt, grandparent, best friend, or favorite teacher was lost among the captives. Would they ever be seen again?

The grain represents the citizens of Israel living at the time when the exile takes place.

 

[WPM]

What you say here shows that you take my posts seriously and have no answer.

The opposite is the truth

 

[CadyandZoe]

1 Peter 2 - still speaking to the same people:

9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

Yes, Peter is addressing the Diaspora, who were members of the Northern Kingdom of Israel. He quotes Hosea, where he writes that while the 10 Tribes were once known as "not my people," they will eventually be called "my people."

We need a bit of background in order to understand this prophecy. Solomon's son was Rehoboam. He became the king of Judah after Solomon's reign. However, his rule marked the division of the united Kingdom of Israel into two separate kingdoms: the northern kingdom of Israel and the southern kingdom of Judah, due to his unwise decisions regarding the demands of his people. It's an interesting and pivotal moment in biblical history!

Hosea primarily addressed the Northern Kingdom of Israel, also referred to as Ephraim in the text. His prophecies focused on Israel's unfaithfulness to God, idolatry, and the resulting judgment. The Northern Kingdom had turned away from God's covenant and pursued alliances with foreign nations and false gods.

God referred to the Northern Kingdom of Israel as "Lo-Ammi," which means "not my people" in Hebrew. This declaration symbolized a severing of the covenant relationship between God and Israel due to their persistent unfaithfulness and idol worship.

Despite the judgment, God’s ultimate plan was always one of restoration. In Hosea 2:23, God declares: "I will say to those called 'Not My People,' 'You are My People'; and they will say, 'You are my God.'" This moment captures the depth of God's mercy and His desire to renew the relationship with His people.

Hosea's prophecy indicates that, after facing judgment and exile, the Northern Kingdom of Israel will experience a transformation of heart and spirit. When God declares, "You are My People", it signifies not only His forgiveness but also Israel's return to Him in faithfulness and repentance. Peter draws on this transformative theme in his first epistle.

You are reading into 1 Peter 1:1 something that according to you all who read the scriptures can see - but actually, you are one of the very few who "sees" what you see.

Most people are told what to see.

because IF it's referring to Israel at all, it's referring to a very mixed Gentile / descendants of "Ephraim" group of people.

Ephraim was not a Gentile. He was the son of Joseph, the son of Jacob and Rachel.

But you say Peter is referring to the Jewish diaspora.

Yes, they were members of the Northern Tribes who were taken into Exile by Assyria. As an example, The Samaritans primarily descended from the northern tribes of Israel, particularly Ephraim and Manasseh, and they lived in the region of Samaria. After the Assyrian conquest of the Northern Kingdom in 722 BCE, many Israelites were exiled, and the Assyrians brought new populations into the land. These groups intermingled with the remaining Israelites, and over time, the Samaritans developed a distinct identity.

Peter was talking to people who according to the way the NetFree version puts it, were temporarily residing in the areas he mentions - Peter specifically calls them SOJOURNERS. There's nothing metaphorical about sojourners. It's a massive assumption to say he was talking only to the "Jewish diaspora" in the region who happened to all believe in Christ.

On the contrary, Peter's reference to a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, and a people for God's own possession are well-understood concepts found in the Hebrew Scriptures. It is a wildly imaginative stretch to conclude that Peter is talking to anyone other than his kinsmen. One would need to totally ignore the entire Old Testament to conclude otherwise.

No, that's not true at all. The Hebrew scriptures were the only scriptures that existed for the church - Jew or Gentile - at the time Peter wrote his letter. The New Testament was still in the process of being compiled - and Peter's letter is only one of the letters to the Christians who were SOJOURNING in the region which eventually became part of the Christian Bible Canon.

Again, Peter explicitly says that he is writing to the diaspora, which refers to the people of the Northern Tribes. It makes sense for Peter to call them sojourners. Contrary to common sense, if he were writing to the Gentiles, he wouldn't refer to them as foreigners, or sojourners since they are living at home.

The Gentiles were not foreigners in their own country. That makes no sense.

The moment Gentiles came to faith in Christ they began to be taught about the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob - from the Hebrew scriptures, and no doubt the Septuagint was used more than anything else outside of Judea and Samaria.

The moment when people of the Northern Tribes came to faith, they didn't cease being people of the Northern Tribes.

Same for any people called to be holy - and your definition of "holy" has different types of holy - which is also non-biblical. Holy means "set apart unto God" and anyone set apart unto God is supposed to live a moral lifestyle. Being set apart unto God (holy) naturally includes moral holiness.

The definition of "holy" has nothing to do with morality or righteousness. It simply refers to a group of people that God called out of Egypt and took to be his own people.

We cannot just make assumptions and then add those assumption to scripture - and you are making assumptions about this text and adding your assumptions to scripture.

I have not added anything to scripture.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

What you say here shows that you take my posts seriously and have no answer.

I don't reply to your posts for your benefit, but for the benefit of others who might be following along and may be confused by your nonsense. So, no, I don't take some of your posts seriously such as that one. And, I have offered an answer by showing you who God's holy people are and you refuse to accept it.

 

[CadyandZoe]

All people in Christ, Jew and Gentile alike, are holy people.

Of course. I said as much.

All people outside of Christ, Jew and Gentile alike, are unholy people.

This is false. When God brought the families related to the Patriarchs out of Egypt, he called them "Holy People."

Deuteronomy 7:6, 14:2 For you are a holy people to the Lord your God; the Lord your God has chosen you to be a people for His own possession out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth.​

God is not a racist.

Your appeal to emotion is unconvincing. God chose to make David the King of Israel. Not only this, God decided that no other person could be crowned king of Israel other than a man in David's lineage. God was not concerned about decreeing primogeniture as the sole basis for kingship over Israel. As we see above, God was not immoral in decreeing that Jacob's descendants were a holy people.

Try to understand the ideas and concepts as they are presented in the Bible.

 

[covenantee]

Of course. I said as much.

This is false. When God brought the families related to the Patriarchs out of Egypt, he called them "Holy People."

Deuteronomy 7:6, 14:2 For you are a holy people to the Lord your God; the Lord your God has chosen you to be a people for His own possession out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth.​

Your appeal to emotion is unconvincing. God chose to make David the King of Israel. Not only this, God decided that no other person could be crowned king of Israel other than a man in David's lineage. God was not concerned about decreeing primogeniture as the sole basis for kingship over Israel. As we see above, God was not immoral in decreeing that Jacob's descendants were a holy people.

Try to understand the ideas and concepts as they are presented in the Bible.

Numbers 25
9 And those that died in the plague were twenty and four thousand.

Were they holy?

Try to stop replacing God's ageless Covenant requirements of faith and obedience, with "seed flesh".

 

[covenantee]

You can imagine what it would be like, can't you? God tells the nation of Israel that they will be taken captive into other nations. Can you imagine what it would mean if an uncle, aunt, grandparent, best friend, or favorite teacher was lost among the captives. Would they ever be seen again?

The grain represents the citizens of Israel living at the time when the exile takes place.

Is that all citizens, both righteous and unrighteous?

And what is your definition of "fall" in Amos 9:9?

 

[Zao is life]

Yes, Peter is addressing the Diaspora, who were members of the Northern Kingdom of Israel. He quotes Hosea, where he writes that while the 10 Tribes were once known as "not my people," they will eventually be called "my people."

We need a bit of background in order to understand this prophecy. Solomon's son was Rehoboam. He became the king of Judah after Solomon's reign. However, his rule marked the division of the united Kingdom of Israel into two separate kingdoms: the northern kingdom of Israel and the southern kingdom of Judah, due to his unwise decisions regarding the demands of his people. It's an interesting and pivotal moment in biblical history!

Hosea primarily addressed the Northern Kingdom of Israel, also referred to as Ephraim in the text. His prophecies focused on Israel's unfaithfulness to God, idolatry, and the resulting judgment. The Northern Kingdom had turned away from God's covenant and pursued alliances with foreign nations and false gods.

God referred to the Northern Kingdom of Israel as "Lo-Ammi," which means "not my people" in Hebrew. This declaration symbolized a severing of the covenant relationship between God and Israel due to their persistent unfaithfulness and idol worship.

Despite the judgment, God’s ultimate plan was always one of restoration. In Hosea 2:23, God declares: "I will say to those called 'Not My People,' 'You are My People'; and they will say, 'You are my God.'" This moment captures the depth of God's mercy and His desire to renew the relationship with His people.

Hosea's prophecy indicates that, after facing judgment and exile, the Northern Kingdom of Israel will experience a transformation of heart and spirit. When God declares, "You are My People", it signifies not only His forgiveness but also Israel's return to Him in faithfulness and repentance. Peter draws on this transformative theme in his first epistle.



Most people are told what to see.

Ephraim was not a Gentile. He was the son of Joseph, the son of Jacob and Rachel.

Yes, they were members of the Northern Tribes who were taken into Exile by Assyria. As an example, The Samaritans primarily descended from the northern tribes of Israel, particularly Ephraim and Manasseh, and they lived in the region of Samaria. After the Assyrian conquest of the Northern Kingdom in 722 BCE, many Israelites were exiled, and the Assyrians brought new populations into the land. These groups intermingled with the remaining Israelites, and over time, the Samaritans developed a distinct identity.


On the contrary, Peter's reference to a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, and a people for God's own possession are well-understood concepts found in the Hebrew Scriptures. It is a wildly imaginative stretch to conclude that Peter is talking to anyone other than his kinsmen. One would need to totally ignore the entire Old Testament to conclude otherwise.


Again, Peter explicitly says that he is writing to the diaspora, which refers to the people of the Northern Tribes. It makes sense for Peter to call them sojourners. Contrary to common sense, if he were writing to the Gentiles, he wouldn't refer to them as foreigners, or sojourners since they are living at home.

The Gentiles were not foreigners in their own country. That makes no sense.

The moment when people of the Northern Tribes came to faith, they didn't cease being people of the Northern Tribes.

The definition of "holy" has nothing to do with morality or righteousness. It simply refers to a group of people that God called out of Egypt and took to be his own people.

I have not added anything to scripture.

I'm not shouting at you below, nor am I angry. I'm writing things in bold and in capital letters for emphasis because what I emphasize is important and shows your ignorance and the holes in your belief about this:-

(1) NONE of the ten tribes of Israel that belonged to the northern kingdom were Jews. Nor were they EVER called "Jews" in the Old Testament. They were collectively called "Ephraim".

(2) The descendants of "Ephraim" had 700 years of being mixed with Gentiles through intermarriage from the time they began to be called "Not a nation" by God, and the prophecy regarding their exile and scattering became reality.

It is very, very unlikely that there were any groups in the Roman Empire outside of Samaria who still identified themselves as "Ephraim" in the 1st century - and even if there were,

they would not have regarded themselves as Jews, and the Jews of the 1st century would most certainly NOT have regarded them as Jews, or called them "Jews". The Jews were "Judahites" and Benjamites, of the Southern kingdom, - the Southern kingdom THAT HAD OBTAINED MERCY AT THE TIME THE NORTHERN KINGDOM DID NOT OBTAIN MERCY (Hosea 1:7):

Hosea 1
6 And she conceived again, and bare a daughter. And God said unto him, Call her name Lo–ruhamah: for I will no more have mercy upon the house of Israel; but I will utterly take them away.
7 But I will have mercy upon the house of Judah (THE JEWS). and will save them by Yhwh their God, and will not save them by bow, nor by sword, nor by battle, by horses, nor by horsemen.
8 Now when she had weaned Lo–ruhamah, she conceived, and bare a son.
9 Then said God, Call his name Lo–ammi: for ye are not my people, and I will not be your God."

@CadyandZoe ISRAEL CONTINUED TO EXIST ONLY THROUGH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH. "NOT MY PEOPLE" WAS NEVER EVER TALKING ABOUT "THE JEWS". THEY ("THE JEWS") WERE NEVER CUT OFF FROM BEING A NATION BEFORE GOD - NOT EVEN AT THE TIME OF CHRIST - BECAUSE A REMNANT OF JUDAH WAS SAVED, AND GENTILE BELIEVERS BEGAN TO BE GRAFTED IN AMONG THE REMNANT.

PAUL INCLUDED GENTILES IN THE FULFILLMENT OF THE PROPHECY IN HOSEA TALKING ABOUT THOSE WHO WERE NOT HIS PEOPLE BEING CALLED THE SONS OF THE LIVING GOD (ROMANS 9).

THE REST OF JUDAH / ISRAEL WERE BROKEN OFF BECAUSE OF THEIR REJECTION OF CHRIST. BUT ISRAEL DID NOT CEASE TO EXIST AS A NATION (AS "EPHRAIM HAD IN THE 8TH CENTURY BC) - BECAUSE OF THE REMNANT OF THE JEWS.

(3) There was a lot of persecution of Christians going on in the first century. You cannot assume that Gentile Christians were never forced to flee their homes and had become sojourners scattered in the region identified by Peter.

(4) Neither can you assume that Peter was talking to Christians who had been forced to flee their homes during a period of persecution of Christians in the Roman Empire and hence had become sojourners scattered in that region. You can ONLY ASSUME Peter was talking to Christians (period).

(5) Peter resided in Jerusalem and was fully aware of how Paul had picked up the ire of Jewish believers in Jerusalem who were very legalistic and opposed Paul's teaching about the law - it's ALL written about in Acts, as well as the fact that Peter did whatever he could to avoid the ire of the same legalistic Jewish party - because he resided among them in Jerusalem and it was from Jerusalem he went to visit Paul in Antioch.

Peter was not likely to write to either Jewish people OR people who had been cut off from being a nation before God CALLING THEM ISRAEL and telling them that they had received an empty way of life from their fathers and had not received mercy but now had obtained mercy - and knowing the Jewish prejudice of the Samaritans who WERE A MIXED GROUP OF PEOPLE DESCENDED FROM "EPHRAIM" who lived right next door to the Jews in Judea, PETER WAS NOT LIKELY TO CALL THEM "A ROYAL PRIESTHOOD AND A HOLY NATION" etc etc - because ALL Jews who could, were required to make THREE annual pilgrimages to Jerusalem for the festivals

and that is exactly how the Jews in Jerusalem all got to hear about what Paul was teaching the Gentiles about the law - which eventually got him arrested in Jerusalem, and marked the end of his freedom to move about at will for the rest of his life, because from then on he remained under house arrest.

JEWS did NOT regard the descendants of the house of Israel a.k.a "Ephraim" as a nation before God. THEY WERE NOT CONSIDERED PART OF ISRAEL AND HAD NOT BEEN CONSIDERED PART OF ISRAEL FOR 700 YEARS. THEY HAD BEEN LABELLED "NOT A NATION" AND "NOT A PEOPLE" AND "NOT MY PEOPLE" BY GOD.

Jews did NOT regard them as Jews, and they were NO LONGER part of Israel - by the decree OF GOD.

-- and Jewish HISTORY has ONLY the Samaritans who resided in Samaria as people who could trace their ancestry to the ten tribes of the Northern kingdom. THERE WERE NO OTHERS. + THERE IS NO ROMAN HISTORY TO SUGGEST THERE WERE SUCH GROUPS IN THE ROMAN EMPIRE OUTSIDE OF SAMARIA.

The people Peter was writing to were Christians. THERE IS NO WORD IN THE TEXT TO SUGGEST THEY WERE A JEWISH OR AN "ISRAELITE, EPHRAIMITE, NORTHERN KINGDOM" "DIASPORA". YOU HAVE ASSUMED THAT, AND INSERTED IT INTO THE TEXT.

It's far more likely that Peter was writing to Gentile Christians who, during a period of Christian persecution, had been forced to flee their own homes and towns and had become sojourners scattered throughout the regions and towns Peter was identifying.​

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Numbers 25
9 And those that died in the plague were twenty and four thousand.

Were they holy?

Try to stop replacing God's ageless Covenant requirements of faith and obedience, with "seed flesh".

Right. And were the Pharisees and scribes that Jesus repeatedly called hypocrites and snakes while asking them how they would escape hell considered to be holy? Clearly not. So, God's holy people are only those who believe and never those who don't.