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How does any of this disprove the fact that the "mortal" body and "resurrection" body are the ONLY TWO KINDS OF HUMAN BODIES that God's Bible knows about?
14 IRRESOLVABLE CONTRADICTIONS WHICH RESULT FROM A LITERAL RICH MAN AND LAZARUS
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Taken
Well-Known Member
Parable meaning for a human means A story to reveal a truth.
Parable meaning regarding Gods Word, is He ONLY Speaks the Truth, regardless of WHAT His Speaking Whatever the manner or speech is Called:
(story, Parable, etc.)
A BODY Has Seven (7) Holes in the Head.
2 Eyes
2 Nostrils
2 Ears
1 Mouth
The Eyes, Sees nothing, without a soul IN the Body.
The Nose Smells nothing, without a soul IN the Body.
The Ears Hears nothing, without a soul IN the Body.
A Mouth utters no sound without a soul In the Body.
Once a Living Soul has been imparted into a form-Ed Body, the holes in the Head begin “functioning”.
Eyes begin to See.
Nose begins to Smell.
Ears begin to Hear.
Mouth begins to utter Sounds.
Tongue begins to Taste.
Flesh begins to feel Touch.
Life of the Body is Blood.
Life of the Soul is Gods Breath.
After the Body is ”CREATED” …Form-Ed…severed From dependence on the Female, via the umbilical cord… then that body is an Independent being… and “MADE” by, through, of Receiving a LIVING SOUL, from God…..to which is the, seeing, smelling, hearing, uttering sounds, tasting, feeling touch….all Communications Skills….
For men to Bodily function to Communicate with men…
And for men to Spiritually communicate with God.
God is a God of the Living.
Living Souls Depart out of Dead body’s.
Dead body’s rot, decay, smell putrid, return to Dust of the Earth.
Living Souls, Saved? Escorted by Angels to heaven to be with God in peace and rest, UNTIL judgement Day.
Living Souls, Not Saved? Sent to Hell to Experience Living Without God…very unpleasant.
Glory to God,
Taken
Taken
Well-Known Member
There Are Celestial (Heavenly) Bodies.
There Are Terrestrial (Earthly) Bodies.
Celestial Bodies have Power Greater than Terrestrial Bodies.
Celestial Bodies Have the Power to Appear to the EYES of Terrestrial Bodies….
In the “Likeness” “AS” A Terrestrial Bodies.
Gods Eternal living Celestial Body (has no beginning and no ending).
God IS a Spirit and Has a Body
Gods Created Celestial Body’s Have A beginning, and are called Angels.
They ARE Spirits that never Die, and HAVE Body's.
Gods Created Terrestrial Body's which all Have a beginning and ending called death.
They ARE a BODY and HAVE a Spirit.
It can sometimes be confusing…
What IS, and What HAS.
What IS, and What has the power to Appear AS.
God can APPEAR “AS” a man, yet God IS Spirit.
Angels can APPEAR “AS” a man, yet they “ARE” spirits.
Men can APPEAR “AS” a woman, yet they “ARE” a man.
Women can APPEAR “AS” a man, yet they “ARE” a woman.
All Terrestrial Body’s are called Mortal Body's meaning they Are All Sentenced to Death…They Shall, Must, Die. Gods Design, God Requires the Death of All mortal Body’s.
Glory to God,
Taken
Dan Clarkston
Well-Known Member
Jesus never said anything about angels coming to work in anybody's yard with weedeaters
In Luke 16:19-31 Jesus said... There was a "certain" rich man, And there was a "certain" beggar named Lazarus
Those claiming this was a meaningless, made up story.... are calling Jesus a liar.
Taken
Well-Known Member
Lazarus in Abraham’s bosom is NOT About The Body.
Abraham’s Body Died and was Buried in a Cave in Hebron.
Lazarus’ Body Died and was buried in Jerusalem.
Abraham’s Saved Living soul departed his Dead body.
Lazarus’ Saved Living soul departed his Dead body.
All “Saved” Living souls, departed out of their Dead Bodies, were the Same Place As Abraham’s Departed Living Soul.
In Abraham’s Bosom, is a Reference to Any “Saved” Departed Living soul Being “WITH”
Abraham’s Living departed soul…who God Appointed Father of many Nations on Earth.
The phenomenon is those Saved departed Souls “were” IN Hell…in Peace and Comfort.
Why “were” those Saved Souls, Not risen Up to “heaven”?
Because, CHRIST the Lord Jesus IS BEFORE, FIRST in All things.
Col 1:
[15] Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
[16] For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
[17] And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Saved Departed living souls, having Bodily Died and their Soul Departed….Could Not Rise Up To Heaven…until After Jesus’ Body Died, His Living Soul Depart His Dead Body AND thus prepared to Rise Up to Heaven.
Once Jesus’ Departed Living soul Rose up to Heaven, so also could Abraham’s saved Living soul Rise up to Heaven, along with All the Saved Departed Living Souls “WITH” Abraham. ( ie. In his bosom).
Glory to God,
Taken
Dan Clarkston
Well-Known Member
Exactly, and the whole reason for the temporary holding place for OT saints was that nobody can get in to God's Kingdom without being born again so they had to wait till Jesus went to the Cross in order to get born again.
Taken
Well-Known Member
And that “temporary” holding place is Revealed In Scripture being separated by a great Gulf “separating” the Saved Living departed souls “from” the unsaved Living departed souls….that such Great Gulf, could not be entered / crossed.
During the next Great Tribulation (Called “Great” because it is Sent down from Heaven)
Another “temporary” place will exist, Holding “departed Saved Living souls, having been Saved During the Great Trib…”
Their departed Saved Living souls SHALL “temporarily” be sequestered “Under the Altar”…waiting for other Souls to become Made Saved, and together they shall rise to Heaven.
Glory to God,
Taken
Dan Clarkston
Well-Known Member
Er, yeah so that alter.... is in Heaven
Once someone is born again, when they die they go to be with the Lord now if they are in right standing with the Lord when they croak and have not backslid.
The apostle Paul taught differently - 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 (WEB):
(16) For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with God’s trumpet. The dead in Christ will rise first,
(17) then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air. So we will be with the Lord forever.
1 Corinthians 15:51-52 (WEB):
(51) Behold, I tell you a mystery. We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed,
(52) in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we will be changed.
The dead in Christ, according to Paul, remain dead and in their graves, until Jesus returns for the Church. Then they will be resurrected to life (as spirit beings), and along with the living Christians that are changed in the twinkling of an eye to also become spirit beings, the whole Church, those that were dead and those that were living, are all caught up at the same time, as one body, to meet with Jesus. We all get to meet Jesus at the same time - no Christian gets to be with Jesus before any other Christians.
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So, literal angels dressed in overalls and boots are coming with sickles to reap harvest fields and burn up tares in a fire at the end of the world? No?
Well, seems Jesus indeed uses that which doesn't happen in real experience to teach truth after all...right?
A Soul is not "in" a body - a Soul "IS" the combination of a Body and Breath of Life. Please read Genesis 2:7 KJV to see this.
Also, please show which verse establishes a third category of body in addition to the two in 2 Cor. 5:1 KJV.
Please show me the verse where "the Living Soul has been imparted into the form-Ed Body.
Actually, when a person dies, the Spirit returns to God, the Body to dust, and the Soul ceases to be.
Please show which verse establishes a third category of body in addition to the two in 2 Cor. 5:1 KJV.
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2 Corinthians 5:1 KJV speaks of only TWO kinds of bodies.
Where is your verse which establishes this "third category of body" in addition to 2 Cor. 5:1 KJV? This isn't about how God or angels appear in the form of men nor your extra-Biblcal idea that men and women can appear as the opposite gender...it's about whether there's any Biblical third category of body in addition to the two in 2 Cor. 5:1 KJV.
I see a lot of your opinion (which is fine, as we're all entitled to our own) but it's critically important you provide AN EXPLICIT TEXT to support your claim as I've provided for my "only two bodies" claim...agreed?
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Sure He did...He said "the Son of man shall send forth His angels, and they shall gather the wheat....." Read the entire passage for yourself.
Are you saying that anyone who doesn't believe this will literally happen thinks Jesus is a liar? I say this most certainly WILL NOT LITERALLY HAPPEN and yet I say Jesus NEVER spoke anything but truth.
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Jesus said Lazarus was "in the bosom of Abraham" - which literally interpreted means "in his physical bosom" no differently than if someone speaking literally said "in the arms of Taken".
We have a choice:
JESUS SPOKE LITERALLY and therefore Lazarus is literally "in the bosom of Abraham".
JESUS SPOKE FIGURATIVELY which means "in the bosom of Abraham" is symbolic for something else.
What we don't have is the luxury of subjectively assigning literal meaning to some parts and symbolic meaning to other parts, in order to establish our own private interpretations.
Both are irrelevant.
Souls (as you understand them to be "disembodied entities" that leave the body and travel to points beyond) don't depart bodies at death at all - they cease to be, according to Genesis 2:7 KJV, which says the Soul comes into existence as a consequence of the union of the Body and Breath of Life.
Regarding Rachel's death when "her soul was departing":
"Soul" ("nephesh") not only refers to "whole creature" but also to the "existential state of life" which results from the union of the Body and the Breath of Life...therefore, "soul was departing" can easily mean "life was leaving her as she lie dying" - and not some geographical departure which Genesis 2:7 KJV makes an impossibility.
The fact that you are compelled to interpret "Abraham's bosom" proves the passage is not literal!
No, because they "ceased to be" - if the Soul only exists as a consequence of the union of the Body and Breath of Life, please tell me how it can continue to exist at the disunion of the same.
Luke 16 depicts dead men with bodies: fingers, tongues, eyes, bosoms, legs to carry warnings. If you cannot point to a verse which clearly establishes third category of "disembodied bodies" then all that remains is Contradiction #1.
Taken
Well-Known Member
Heavenly Angels Serve The Lord God.
All Angel Spirits have the Power to appear AS a man, unbeknownst to men, they ARE Angels.
Heb 13:
[2] Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.
The Lord God teaches about Spiritual things, in a manner of things already familiar to men.
All souls belong to God.
Man (Adam) was “Created”, Formed from dust of the Earth….The End…eh?
No. The Conjunction….”AND”…
Then God Blew “INTO” Adam. With Gods Breath of Life in that Soul.
Gen 2:
[7] And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
And God Reiterated… “CREATED” (formed body) AND “MADE” that body Alive.
Creating is one thing.
Making is another thing.(that affects the Created thing)
Gen 2:
[3] And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
Created and Made.
Don’t get your question..third catagory of a body??
Gen 2:
[7] And the LORD God formed man
form-ED is a complete body, neither alive or dead
of the dust of the ground, < Created
and
breathed
into < Made that Formed body Alive.
his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
No.
All body’s ARE Mortal, and it’s life IS Blood, and All mortal Bodies Are condemned to Death. God Requires that.
It is the body that is MADE Changed, for a saved man.
A saved man is speaking of THE Soul within him.
It is Restored, because the soul becomes Corrupted, hanging out in a Corrupt Body.
Pss 23:
[3] He restoreth my soul:
Why restore / Save a Soul to then make it cease to exist? Where is that teaching.
Quote me talking about some third catagory of a body…don’t know what you are talking about.
God Bless you.
Glory to God,
Taken
Taken
Well-Known Member
Oh ok…(regarding Spirits and ManKIND)
Body’s ARE “Forms”. (Shapes)
2 CREATED and MADE “Kinds”
1) Celestial
2) Terrestrial
* Celestial body’s- ARE Spirits, that can Appear as A Terrestrial.
* Terrestrial body’s- ARE “men”, called Humans. (Are NOT Spirits, but “Have” a Spirit.
( if the Body is Alive it is called , a man, a woman, a “Person”.)
* noting created Animals ARE also Terrestrials (Earthly), Created and Made, not humans, not persons, but Also “Earthly” (terrestrial) beings.
* Gods Form, Body, Being, Shape, “IS” Spirit…NOT Created.
1 - God “not created” Celestial Body. A Spirit.
(Who also “HAS” Spirits / yet all the Same One Spirit)
2 - Angels “created” Celestial Body’s. spirits
3- ManKind, “created and made” Terrestrial Body’s , have a spirit, have a soul.
4- Animals , “created and made” Terrestrial Body’s, have a soul.
A body of man, of animal, of angels, of God IS the Form.
The Spirit of God, of Angels, of Man, is it’s Truth.
Gods Truth remains Constant.
God can not Die.
A created Spirits Truth, can become a Lie.
A created and made Spirit can not die.
A mans Truth is his Hearts Belief, it can be A Truth that is True or a Lie.
A Mans Spirit (natural Truth) dies with his natural body.
A man (natural Truth) can be “Quickened ie. “Born Again”, via the Seed of God, and thereafter, remain the Truth, according to God, And never Again; Be a Lie, or Again Die.
The Soul is Communication Ability…it’s Life is Gods Breath.
As long As Gods Breath Remains “IN” the Soul, the Soul HAS communication Abilities…
(Whether or not the Soul Remains “IN” the body)
Eyes…See
Ears….Hear
Nose….Smells
Mouth…utters sounds
Tongue…Tastes
Flesh….Feels Touch
Body’s that Die….the “living soul” continues living, departs the Body…and is escorted to Heaven, (if saved) or sent to Hell, (if not saved) to wait for Judgement Day.
The born again Spirit, goes to Heaven to wait for Judgement Day.
The not born Again Spirit, dies with its body.
Dead body’s return to the earth.
ManKIND was CREATED in Gods LIKENESS…
(Very Good)
Body
Soul
Spirit
ManKind was MADE in Gods IMAGE…
Head, Face, Trunk, Arms, Hands, Legs, Feet.
(Very Good)
ManKinds’ LIKENESS (and IMAGE) has become Corrupt…
God has Offered an Order and Way for Restoration…for any man desiring to be Restored….(back to very Good) … and any man can Reach out and TAKE Gods Offering (or not).
FREEWILL option.
Jesus…
His Being, His Form, His Body, IS Spirit, IS God, WHO exercised His POWER to Appear in the “LIKENESS AS a Terrestrial Man and WAS ABLE to BE SEEN By Terrestrial men.
Phil 2:
[5] Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
[6] Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
[7] But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
[8] And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
God “purposed” IN men, in Hebrews, in ISRAEL Tribesmen, in Prophets, TO Teach the World About God.
In later days God “purposed IN Himself” to Teach the World About Himself.
Eph 1:
[9] Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
Phil 2:
[9] Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
Eph 3:
[11] According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
Glory to God,
Taken
Taken
Well-Known Member
Yes,Jesus Spoke in Literal Speech.
Same as Preachers Are to Speak…Literal Speech, Literal Truth.
It is The Listeners…the Crowds that listened to Jesus, the Congregations that listen to Preachers…
That Individually…
*Decide “IF” they Believe the Words Spoken.
* Know “IF” they Trust the Words are True.
* Know “IF” the Preaching “IS” regarding a “an INVISIBLE Spiritual EVENT”….they can Choose To Believe…
“OR”
“REJECT” such an Event can occur, BECAUSE “They CAN NOT SEE a Spiritual Event”
One Speech…and individuals will either…
Consider such a Spiritual event is true…
Try it out, for awhile (called Tasting).
Follow along.
or, Immediately “Reject”, walk Away.
* Following Along, have a disappointing event.
Get mad at God.
Blame God for their disappointment.
Reject God.
Or
Trust God, Commit their Belief to God, (Called Eating), (Full well Know in this natural life Disappointments Will occur and God will COMFORT them THROUGH sorrows and sadness).
No one was IN the Literal Bosom of Abraham…
Bosom is regarding The body.
Dead body’s are buried.
Abraham’s body and Lazarus’ body’s were Not buried in the same place
Lazarus Departed living soul was WITH Abraham’s Living Departed soul.
The relevance Is Abraham and Lazarus Physical Dead body’s were buried different places. No Lazarus body was not physically in Abraham’s bosom
Dead Body’s Do Not Communicate.
Taken
Well-Known Member
Correct.
Disagree.
Says Soul was Departing.
She, Rachel, Her mortal Body Died.
All souls belong to God.
The Life IN the Soul Belong To God.
God is a God of the Living.
Gods Living Souls, departs Dead BODIES.
Speculation and guesswork of your opinion.
Not Scriptural.
Proves Speech is Literal, Spiritual things are Invisible.
ManKind IS a Body.
It’s Life IS Blood.
It’s Life, Must Shall Die.
Gen 1:
[21] And God created great whales,
On the 6th day God identifies A KIND of Creature (other than whales, cattle. Creeping crawling things, God call MAN…)
And on the 6th Day God, CrEATED and MADE “something” Expressly particular about this creation and Making God called “a man.”
Gen 1:
[26] And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
[27] So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Luke expressly reveals dead and buried Bodys of men in their graves, Not Hell.
Men do not bury dead body’s in Hell
A Soul Enters “a formed man”, by Gods Power…
Blown “INTO” the Body By God.
Gen 2:
[7] And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Now when the Body’s Life (Blood) Dies…
The Living soul, By the Power of God, departs out of the Dead Body.
Gen 9;
[5] And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man.
Can God RETURN a Living Soul BACK INTO a Body, THAT that Body’s BLOOD Resumes Living?
You say no.
You say All souls (which BTW belong to God) become “non existent”.
Lazarus’ body, was dead, buried, then raised up, and he resumed bodily living.
Was his Departed Soul Returned to his Body?
You would have to reject that notion, because you say his soul would cease to exist, once his body was dead.
You should have learned From an example in Ancient Scripture, of a young boy who bodily Died…And his “Departed living Soul was Returned to his Body”, and the boys body resumed bodily Living.
Today, people pronounced clinically bodily Dead…and then again alive…people call “a near death experience” when in actuality “their living Soul Departed their dead body. Then returned to their body, and their body resumed living.”
Some people even can have a memory of what their Departed living soul SAW and Heard.
Read: 1 Kings 17…whole chapter.
Glory to God,
Taken
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With all due respect, all you post is opinion - with no substantiating texts. I post verses:
"And the Lord God formed man of the Dust of the Ground (Body), breathed into his nostrils the Breath of Life (Spirit) and man BECAME a living Soul".
Two undeniable truths are these:
1) The Soul comes into existence only as a consequence of the union of the Body and the Breath of Life (and therefore must go out of existence at the disunion of the same).
2) Man BECAME a living Soul.
(It doesn't say man was "given" a Soul or "a Soul was breathed" into him - it says man BECAME a Soul as a consequence of the union of the Body and Breath of Life.
There is no "3rd category of body" to account for the "bodies" of the Rich Man and Lazarus and Abraham - which means the passage can only be a parable, requiring an interpretation in order to obtain the point Jesus was trying to teach.
