Once Saved Always Saved

[marks]

Galatians 5:22-23 KJV
[22] But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, [23] Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Yes, the Spirit produces faith in us.

So so simple!

Much love!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Actually John teaches this fact

They were never of us, If they were of us, then would never have departed. but they departed to expose the fact they were never truly of us.

But then he tells true believers to not also leave 4 verses later. So I think it best to not focus on osas and instead focus on what is clear in scripture—keep believing.

 

[justbyfaith]

Yes, the Spirit produces faith in us.

So so simple!

Much love!

Then there is initial faith; by which we gain access to this grace wherein we stand (Romans 5:1-2).

 

[JunChosen]

If OSASers are wrong they are guilty of leading people to Hell fire. Never heard of Judgment Day?

You said, "if" OSASers are wrong, (which they are NOT!!!) and because you do not understand what salvation is.

Jesus said in John 10:26-29:

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave [them] me, is greater than all; and no [man] is able to pluck [them] out of my Father’s hand.

If the above does NOT describe OSAS, then I don't know what salvation is!

No OSAS in the Bible.

If there is no ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED in the Bible, who then will live with Jesus in heaven forever?

To God Be The Glory

 

[marks]

This is not eternal salvation. This is speaking about the tribulation period. And how whoever endures to the end of this period will be saved (This is physical salvation not eternal salvation)

once again, you take a passage out of Context. And once again you make God contradict himself.

And here you told me you did not trust in self?? Here is is YOU enduring to the end.

I pray you start looking inside and seeing where your faith truly lies

Ignoring context, ignoring grammar, ignoring parallel passages, ignoring passages which contradict the view, it's always the same things.

And then all the logicl fallacies! Sometimes when I'm in a mood to catalog the logical fallacies I see presented, well, it's like, the more you look, the more you find!

It's always about pushing the talking points. But not looking deeper than the surface.

We WILL appear with Him in glory! Where then is the believer who stops believing and becomes unborn again? It's a fiction.

Much love!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

"thinking their sin doesn't matter", that's an incredibly vague statement.

You'll see from our discussions that we're talking about sin mattering in regard to salvation. Sin that is the result of a rejection of Christ is definitely a matter that affects salvation. Meanwhile, cheating on your taxes because you got scared for your financial well being, Christ has you covered. I mean as long you are a believer and not doing it because you have rejected Christ.

 

[marks]

Your believing is how you have God's keeping power.

That's not what the passage says.

Much love!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave [them] me, is greater than all; and no [man] is able to pluck [them] out of my Father’s hand.

If the above does NOT describe OSAS, then I don't know what salvation is!

If you're really interested in the truth about this you should honestly look at the anti-osas argument and find out why they think these scriptures do not mean you can't lose your salvation. I think that's just fair. Just as the anti-osas should honestly look at why osas thinks they do mean you can't lose your salvation. But in the end just know it's not really a salvation issue unless one abuses either teaching. But in and of itself it's not a salvation issue.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

That's not what the passage says.

Much love!

Which passage?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

If there is no ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED in the Bible, who then will live with Jesus in heaven forever?

Those who continue to trust in the blood of Christ to the very end. That's true in both the osas and anti-osas arguments. That's why I say this is just a big nothing argument. Do what counts and what the Bible tells us to do.......keep believing to the very end.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

After all, there is no remedy for sin in the Bible...


There “ IS” a “ remedy” for Sin .....it’s called “ Love”.......NOT more Rules.....NOT more Hell-Fire and Damnation Sermons.....not more Determination to keep the Laws Of Moses .....NOT more preaching of Religion , which is nothing more than “ Aping” Of True Christianity —- concentrating on Christian behavior as opposed to concentrating on the “Secret” Of That Behavior .....
That “ Secret” is having the Assurance— the Faith— to know that you are totally Forgiven and that your Sins are actually “Forgotten” and covered by the Blood Of Jesus And the Grace of a Loving God.....
Getting that awful Burden Of thinking that you having to PERFORM to a certain level to EARN your Salvation off of your shoulders, and Realizing that we don’t have to WORK to “ become WORTHY “ and quite the contrary , we are “ MADE” Worthy by the Blood Of The Lamb......these issues must be settled before one can become Truly Obedient to God in the Heartfelt Manner That God desires......
It’s like this: Understanding Grace, which tells you that you are Covered by the Blood Of Jesus no matter what you do and that you are Totally forgiven because you put your Faith in Jesus and “HIS” Performance ( NOT yours) .....that spurs Rest and NOT a “ License to Sin ( Sinning becomes abhorrent to you! Who “ wants” it ? ) .....that “ rest” spurs Love ......Love spurs Obedience .....
Any Obedience is better than “DisObedience” , but the type that comes Natural—- based on your Love for God instead of a Fear Of Damnation—- is what God desires.....
It all starts by Believing the Gospel Of 1cor15:1-4 ( the thing That God will Judge you by on Judgement Day) .....Believing it to the point that you REST In it ( if you don’t “Rest “ in it, you don’t really Believe it ).....The Second That I realized that I was free to do whatever I wanted to do (“ ALL things are Lawful to me “ ) was the very same second I didn’t “Want” to Do a Lot Of Things Anymore ....I am a FREE Man in Christ .....Free to do what I “ want” to do! ........and what does this supposedly “ Free Man” WANT to do? Be God's Slave....
THAT is the Ultimate “ MEAT” of the Gospel—- knowing you are Free and using your Freedom to become a Slave.....I keep trying to tell people—- True Christianity is Wilder than you ever dreamed...May God bless us all in the understanding of these things.....

 

[marks]

You'll see from our discussions that we're talking about sin mattering in regard to salvation. Sin that is the result of a rejection of Christ is definitely a matter that affects salvation. Meanwhile, cheating on your taxes because you got scared for your financial well being, Christ has you covered. I mean as long you are a believer and not doing it because you have rejected Christ.

Then you parse some sins worse than others. Some sins will cost you your unification with God as a new celestial being, others don't. Hmm.

Where is it that you think sin comes from? Why is it that you think some sins affect your salvation and others don't? Are you saying there are sins that Just Don't Matter?

Considering that sins come from the flesh, how is it that you believe the flesh can veto the Spirit?

Much love!

 

[justbyfaith]

Pro 26:26, Whose hatred is covered by deceit, his wickedness shall be shewed before the whole congregation.

Psa 10:4, The wicked, through the pride of his countenance, will not seek after God: God is not in all his thoughts.
Psa 10:5, His ways are always grievous; thy judgments are far above out of his sight: as for all his enemies, he puffeth at them.
Psa 10:6, He hath said in his heart, I shall not be moved: for I shall never be in adversity.

 

[marks]

You said, "if" OSASers are wrong, (which they are NOT!!!) and because you do not understand what salvation is.

Jesus said in John 10:26-29:

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave [them] me, is greater than all; and no [man] is able to pluck [them] out of my Father’s hand.

If the above does NOT describe OSAS, then I don't know what salvation is!



If there is no ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED in the Bible, who then will live with Jesus in heaven forever?

To God Be The Glory

As if the power of life and death is in our own hands! If we are not kept by Jesus, well, it's pure hubris in my opinion for someone to say, "I've kept myself for my salvation". Just writing those words, knowing how deeply I disagree, makes me uncomfortable!

"I've kept myself for my salvation"? Who would dare! But many do.

Much love!

 

[BloodBought 1953]

And yet you "have thoughts that would shame hell".

Just as you do, Blind man.Who the Hell do you think you are fooling. Certainly not God....not even your fellow human beings .We just happen to know what it’s like to be human—- and being honest about it, you hypocrite! You ain’t nearly as “Holy” as you think you are, and you ain’t fooling ANYBODY.....you are laughable in your self “ preening”....

 

[marks]

Which passage?

Seriously?

Ferris Bueller said: ↑

Your believing is how you have God's keeping power.

Well then, if you didn't have one in mind, I'd go back to ask where you are connecting the idea of God's keeping power and faith, was there a passage you were thinking of? Or just stringing together the thoughts?

Much love!

 

[JunChosen]

Today's version of osas has many Christians thinking their sin doesn't matter.

Therefore, you do not believe God in what He had declared in John 1:13 and I John 3:9?

To God Be The Glory

 

[marks]

which is nothing more than “ Aping” Of True Christianity —- concentrating on Christian behavior as opposed to concentrating on the “Secret” Of That Behavior .....
That “ Secret” is having the Assurance— the Faith— to know that you are totally Forgiven and that your Sins are actually “Forgotten” and covered by the Blood Of Jesus And the Grace of a Loving God.....
Getting that awful Burden Of thinking that you having to PERFORM to a certain level to EARN your Salvation off of your shoulders, and Realizing that we don’t have to WORK to “ become WORTHY “ and quite the contrary , we are “ MADE” Worthy by the Blood Of The Lamb......these issues must be settled before one can become Truly Obedient to God in the Heartfelt Manner That God desires......

And once we get this straight, we come to understand the reality of victory over the sins of the flesh.

Much love!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

So you agree with me that a person who does not continue in His goodness either loses his salvation or else was never saved in the first place.

Are we saved by our power to continue. or Gods power to save us?

Because if you are cut off from the means of salvation, how are you saved?

If your cut off from salvation. were you ever saved to begin with?

It means to be made holy; and we are not to divorce that meaning from the word when we read it.

So if you are already "holy" by practice. why are you in the process of being Sanctified.

Again, It means to be set apart.

There is positional.

and their is conditional

We can walk in freedom from sin (John 8:31-36) and victory over sin (1 Corinthians 15:57).

1 John 1:8 is speaking of indwelling sin rather than practical sins. Otherwise it is in contradiction to 1 John 3:5-9; which is in the immediate context (the same epistle).

I disagree, 1 John 1: 8 is speaking of personal sin.

1 John 3 is speaking of habitual ongoing life of sin.
They do not counter each other because they are speaking of two things. One is a lifestyle of sin. 2 is any sin one can commit.

You are referring to what is taught in the doctrine of POTS rather than OSAS.

Perseverance indicates one will persevere.

saying one is always saved indicates its the power of God.

And of course, I have not argued that sanctification is not by God's love and power. I assumed that you would take that as a given; and it was not the exact subject that was at hand.

If your claiming sanctifiation is done bu us persevering. I would be careful. That's all I am saying

"jersus"?

That is a very grave error impaho. If you get the name of Jesus wrong when you are trying to call upon His name you can end up in the lake of fire.

So I am going to hell because I did not catch a mistake before I hit send?

I mean really man

Jesus substantiated the doctrine of baptism by His actions (see John 4:1-2)...and also, He didn't leave it out of what He spoke (see John 3:5).

Jesus was baptized for the same reason Arron was baptized in the jordan. As a testimony and witness of who he was. As John said, thats why he came to baptise.

Jesus did not need to be baptized.

John 3 has nothing to do with jesus baptism.

Baptism is not a work...

Because if someone believes and is baptized, they shall be saved (Mark 16:16, Acts of the Apostles 2:38-39).

1. Jesus said in John belief is required to be saved. no baptism
2. Mark 16 is a questionable passage. but even if it is real. it does not mean water baptism is what is spoken of. Ic ould refere to spiritual baptism
2. Acts 2 does not say one has to be baptized. Study in the greek

Baptism is a work. Just like circumcision is a wok. Like any other work done in obedience to God is a work.

If baptism is required to be saved. You in affect say we earn the reward of salvation by completing the work of baptism

Not of works lest any one should boast. I know many who boast of their salvation, and if your saying you were saved by baptism, you are in effect boasting of earning your salvation.

You work to earn a wage (rom 4) if we are saved by works. Salvation is not a gift it is a reward.

However, we are not saved by works (Ephesians 2:8-9).

Therefore, baptism is not a work.

Faulty logic. and untrue

So, I think you are saying that if a person believes and is baptized, they will be damned?

The Bible very clearly says the opposite (Mark 16:16, Acts of the Apostles 2:38-39)

I believed and was baptized in my church when I was led to Christ by a deacon

I was baptized in water about two years later.

Many people who enter heaven not having been immersed in water.

No one will enter heaven apart from the baptism of the spirit

I would warn you not to try to replace baptism of the spirit with some paster who immerses you in water. That is bordering on blasphemy.

 

[justbyfaith]

There “ IS” a “ remedy” for Sin .....it’s called “ Love”.......NOT more Rules.....NOT more Hell-Fire and Damnation Sermons..

I agree in part...it is definitely love that is the remedy for sin.

However, hell-fire and damnation Sermons have their place in the realm of sound preaching and are not to be squelched.

As a matter of fact, I believe it is those who are convicted of judgment by those types of Sermons that are the most inclined to complain about them.

If you know that you are going to heaven, a hell-fire and damnation Sermon is not going to bother you in the slightest.

Does that not make sense?

Getting that awful Burden Of thinking that you having to PERFORM to a certain level to EARN your Salvation off of your shoulders, and Realizing that we don’t have to WORK to “ become WORTHY “ and quite the contrary , we are “ MADE” Worthy by the Blood Of The Lamb...

In the practical sense.

And therefore, while we do not have to work in order to become worthy, if we have been made worthy, we will work.

For we are saved by grace through faith....unto good works, that the Lord has foreordained that we should walk in (Ephesians 2:8-10).

It’s like this: Understanding Grace, which tells you that you are Covered by the Blood Of Jesus no matter what you do

Being redeemed by the blood of Jesus will change the heart and thus what you do.

Therefore if what you do is to continue in a lifestyle of sinning, it should be clear that the blood of Jesus has not had the desired effect....and therefore you ought to question as to whether it has actually been applied.

and that you are Totally forgiven because you put your Faith in Jesus and “HIS” Performance ( NOT yours) .....that spurs Rest and NOT a “ License to Sin ( Sinning becomes abhorrent to you! Who “ wants” it ? ) ...

People who have not yet been redeemed want it.

Any Obedience is better than “DisObedience” , but the type that comes Natural—- based on your Love for God instead of a Fear Of Damnation—- is what God desires...

Of course...and obedience that comes from fear of damnation will not cut it for salvation.

But if a man repents and places his trust in Christ as the remedy for sin, because of the fear of hell; when God saves him on the basis of faith alone, that man will fall in love with Jesus and will begin to follow Him because He loves Him...because He recognizes what He was saved from and is altogether thankful to the Lord for the salvation given to him. And also, he will not any more be walking in the things that made him deserving of hell, because he is a new creature in Christ (2 Corinthians 5:17 (kjv)).