Once Saved Always Saved

[BreadOfLife]

You're verse proves you are you reaching into the dark hoping to find a clue.

Look at your symbolic verse.
No one has a "body" in hell, as their body is in the grave back on earth, unless it was lost and rotted, or it was cremated.

You're welcome to try again, but its not going to help, as posting random "cut and paste" verses, that are disconnected is a fool's game.
You've mastered it.

And yet, it's funny that you had NOTHING to say about the other two verses I gave you (1 John 2:24, Matt. 5:13) . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Faith does not save you.
God saves you through your faith.
God accepts faith to SAVE YOU.
Once He does, its done.
A person can never stop being born again.

Another pathetic dodge.
We were talking about "Apostate" - NOT whether faith saves us.

Like I said before - either pay atention or get out of the way . . .

 

[Taken]

Did MUD heal the Blind Man - or did Jesus?

Then, why didn't Jesus simply pray over him?

Yipes...The most basic knowledge of a natural man, puzzles you?

A natural man...naturally wants to SEE "something"... before they can BELIEVE what they can not SEE.

Jesus could have wiped Spit in the mans eyes for men to SEE.
The mans eyesight was restored by the POWER of God!

 

[BreadOfLife]

The Negative you want is not IN Scripture.
The Positive IS IN Scripture, If that is not sufficient for you...too bad for you.

Then, PLEASE, point me to the verse.
If you can't - then you're just making things up again.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Yipes...The most basic knowledge of a natural man, puzzles you?

A natural man...naturally wants to SEE "something"... before they can BELIEVE what they can not SEE.

Jesus could have wiped Spit in the mans eyes for men to SEE.
The mans eyesight was restored by the POWER of God!

You didn't answer the question.

Was it mud that cured the Blind Man - or Jesus?
WHY, then, did He use mud?

 

[Taken]

Yers, thank you for yet ANOTHER long-winded, psychotic rant . . .

Calling peoples explicit view a "rant", simply shows it is to complex for your comprehension. But then, it may be of use to another who has two minutes to hear and go verify with Scripture.

In the CONTEXT of Scripture (there's that nasty word again)

No need to tell me about the words you love and words you think are nasty...juvenile at best, and of no interest to me.

- we are NOT told that we will neve sin again.

I am Scripturally told "whosoever" is born of God CAN NOT SIN. 1 John 3:9

I already KNOW HOW to become, born of God, and chose that Offering, and am smart enough to PROPERLY Divide the Word of God, to PROPERLY APPLY to me that which IN FACT, applies TO me.

I am not responsible for YOUR lack of comprehension....that's "your" burden, not mine.

We are told that we will no longer be slaves to sin AND its consequences.

So? Get to getting and DO what is REQUIRED to no longer be a Slave to sin.

Scripture doesn't lie - even if YOU do.
- James tells his born again readers to "Conefess your sins" (James 5:16).

ERROR...James 5:16 does not identify his listeners as exclusively born again.

James 5:
[16] Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

Confess your faults....expressly man to man....What does that have to do with "being born again" ? Nothing.

CONTEXT...that word "you think is nasty"...
The CONTEXT...is faults between men! Duh!
When you trespass AGAINST a man....man up, and go confess TO THEM your fault.
Ask THEM for forgiveness, duh!

Per ususal you quote a Scripture has nothing to do with your claim.

- Paul

tells his born again readers about the Ministry of Reconciliation - and that he is forgiving their sins in the PERSON of Christ (2 Cor. 2:10).

2 Cor 2:
[10] To whom ye forgive any thing, I forgive also: for if I forgave any thing, to whom I forgave it, for your sakes forgave I it in the person of Christ;

AGAIN "CONTEXT"...(your nasty word).
2 Cor 2:10 is about MEN forgiving MEN.
2 Cor 2:10 is also about Paul teaching, MEN forgiving MEN, is for Jesus' Sake.

Again, this Scripture is not confirming what you said.

- John tells his born again readers that people like YOU who say they have NO sin deceive themselves and the truth is NOT in them (1 John 1:8).

1 John 1:8 IS about People who say they HAVE NO SIN.

Again, YOU LIE, and say I claimed that, When I have NEVER CLAIMED SUCH A THING.

I think you need a Q-TIP...
I have EXPRESSLY SAID the Lord God FORGAVE my sins.

How is a person FORGIVEN of SINS...claiming they have no sin....LOL LOL LOL

Just another of your failures to STAY IN CONTENT of what the Scriptures actually SAYS.

Nice try - but I'll stick with God's Word . . .

Sticking with Gods WORD, instead of BOL's word, would be a grand improvement.

 

[Taken]

Then, PLEASE, point me to the verse.
If you can't - then you're just making things up again.

Point you to the verse that says baby's are not water baptized....is not in Scripture.

Point you to the verse that says baby's are water baptized...is not in Scripture.

Beyond your comprehension??...the Scripture is Silent on babies baptism...

You want to drip water on a babys head, dunk them in water, who cares?

I am quite confident the Lord had the KNOWLEDGE INFANTS do not Know WHAT a God is let alone, had an expectation that infants could SPEAK and confess Belief in God....

Not particularly rocket science....billions of baby's have been naturally born without knowledge of God, and don't know of ONE case of earthly baby coming forth out of the womb, talking and saying, Hi mom, guess what... I repent of my sin and am confessing my belief in God, get me to the Baptism pool!


Funny actually, you have not figured out that little piece of common sense.

 

[JunChosen]

You didn't answer the question.

Was it mud that cured the Blind Man - or Jesus?
WHY, then, did He use mud?

BECAUSE like you, "an evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign; and there shall NO SIGN BE GIVEN TO IT..."

To God Be The Glory

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Okay, so obviously, you believe that osas is true. That's fine, you can believe that if you want. Doesn't matter. But did you know that osas says the person who stops believing was never really saved to begin with? In osas teaching, the person who stops believing does not remain saved as you are asserting. Osas says they were never really saved to begin with.

Actually John teaches this fact

They were never of us, If they were of us, then would never have departed. but they departed to expose the fact they were never truly of us.

One thing I have noticed. When discussing these things. If you get down to it. It is not just a belief non belief issue. If that was it it was. We would all agree. they will not make it to heaven. Because no one who rejects christ in unbelief or denys he is the savor or the Christ. will get to heaven. This difference is. One side said they LOST salvation, the other said they NEVER HAD salvation.

Sadly, When you get to the bottom of it. This who proclaim unbelief also teach one must endure to the end. Stop living a life of Sin...etc etc. So they are just using unbelief as an excuse to hide their works based I must maintain my salvation by my own power gospel.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Funny - Catholics are only "arrogant" when they're educated.
Otherwise, they're "stupid".

This Catholic has taken you to the Scriptural woodshed . . .

See your arrogant. You THINK you have done something you have by no means even come close to doing.

You cant even prove your own point, Yet you think you have me on my heals..

As for what I think of most catholics. I can only go from what I have experienced from them. And you fit their mold perfectly.

 

[justbyfaith]

OSAS is a doctrine. Which is meaningless to those who are not saved,

It definitely has meaning to those who are not saved.

It means to them that if they went forward at a church service or Crusade, that now they can live like hell and they will still go to heaven when they die.

He did not say they could lose salvation. Thats your interpretation. If we can lose salvation. God is a liar!.

So, what is your alternate interpretation?

What does it mean to be "cut off"?

Yet the author of hebrews said I have been perfected forever (justified)

It is talking in the practical sense (1 John 3:7, Romans 5:19, Matthew 5:6).

Heb 10:10, By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Heb 10:11, And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
Heb 10:12, But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
Heb 10:13, From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
Heb 10:14, For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Even in many of the watered down versions, verse 10 renders it "we are sanctified" and therefore they create an inconsistency in translation when they translate it "are being sanctified" in verse 14.

Also, if you compare this passage to 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24 (kjv), I believe that you will find the meaning of sanctification....that it is a complete work; and that it entails making the person blameless in their spirit and soul and body.

So, what does blameless mean?

Eph 1:4, According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Not in the sense that God is looking at you through rose-colored glasses. But in this sense:

Heb 4:13, Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.

The term justified. literally means declared righteous.

And it is impossible for God to lie (Hebrews 6:18, Titus 1:2) so that if God declares us righteous, we are righteous. Even in the practical sense (1 John 3:7, Romans 5:19, Matthew 5:6).

Of course I am still being sanctified. NO ONE is perfect (sinless).

No one is sinless (1 John 1:8); but those who have been sanctified have been perfected for ever (Hebrews 10:14 (kjv)).

For the element of sin, dwelling within us, can be rendered dead (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8) so that it no longer has any say over our behaviour (Romans 6:14, Romans 8:12-13) so that we can live a perfect life afterwards.

No. Precisely your Conversion is your giving GOD authority, FOR HIS POWER to KEEP YOU IN BELIEF.

1Pe 1:3, Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
1Pe 1:4, To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
1Pe 1:5, Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

I never heard of OSAS until I joined a christian chat room. While the term represents (once a person is saved, they will always remain saved) I agree with. as I think here reading your post, I am not even sure I know what the doctrine of OSAS teaches. I guess I should look this up.

OSAS is along the lines of, if I go forward at a church service or Crusade, I can live like hell afterwards and my salvation will not be affected.

I prefer the concept of POTS (Perseverance of the Saints).

It means that if you are truly born again, you are a saint and will live like one...and that you will persevere in holy living by faith unto the very end and beyond.

My favorite verses to substantiate POTS are 1 John 3:6 w/ 1 John 2:17. They serve a dual purpose; for they also preach entire sanctification quite well.

Amen. Three possible views of water. None of which is physical water baptism.

Water baptism is, in fact, a possible interpretation of what Jesus means by "water" in John 3:5.

And also, if He is speaking of water baptism, then for anyone to interpret it differently and behave accordingly (by not being baptized for salvation) would be to gamble away their soul.

If He is not speaking of water baptism, then to believe that He is, and to act accordingly, is to cover all your bases; and you lose nothing. While in being baptized you gain everything if He is speaking of water baptism.

So, my exhortation would be, don't put it off any longer if you haven't gotten "this one done"...

Act 22:16, And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Yers, thank you for yet ANOTHER long-winded, psychotic rant . . .

Such an endearing soul...

 

[Taken]

You didn't answer the question.[/QUOTE0

False claim.

I expressly answered the question.

The mans eyesight was restored by the POWER of God!

Was it mud that cured the Blind Man - or Jesus?

You are so busy, slinging mud, you miss what is plainly and simply said.

The mans eyesight was restored by the POWER of God...so why do you STILL wonder of MUD restored his eyesight... weird.

WHY

, then, did He use mud?

Well...Jesus came to DIVIDE PEOPLE...
* People who would Comprehend, the mans sight was restored by the Power of God...
* And People who would WONDER...maybe even TRY rubbing MUD in a blind mans eyes.
(Never comprehending his sight was restored by the Power of God)

For other men "observing" this conversation...
My Fruits are revealed, KNOWING it was the Power of God that restored the mans sight.
And YOUR Fruits are revealed, WONDERING HOW MUD restored the mans sight.

To you From Jesus:
Matt 13:
[13] Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

It definitely has meaning to those who are not saved.

It means to them that if they went forward at a church service or Crusade, that now they can live like hell and they will still go to heaven when they die.

But OSAS does not teach that. So if they think that they have absolutely no idea what OSAS teaches. t

then again the things of God are foolsih to those who are not his,. I think we should be preaching to them salvation. Not a doctrine they could not understand to begin with. Most of the people in here show thay do not understand it, and they claim to be christian how is a non believer supposed to understand it?

So, what is your alternate interpretation?

What does it mean to be "cut off"?

Cut off from the means to be saved

I must translate the bible to agree with itself. If God said a person can never be lost. That they will live forever. That they have been given EVERY spiritul blessing. and they have even been given the spirit as a pledge UNTIL resurrection day. And that we HAVE eternal life. The I can not translate that to see any of thise things can be lost. I would be calling God a liar.

It is talking in the practical sense (1 John 3:7, Romans 5:19, Matthew 5:6).

Heb 10:10, By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Heb 10:11, And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
Heb 10:12, But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
Heb 10:13, From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
Heb 10:14, For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Even in many of the watered down versions, verse 10 renders it "we are sanctified" and therefore they create an inconsistency in translation when they translate it "are being sanctified" in verse 14.
Also, if you compare this passage to 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24 (kjv), I believe that you will find the meaning of sanctification....that it is a complete work; and that it entails making the person blameless in their spirit and soul and body.

So, what does blameless mean?

Eph 1:4, According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Not in the sense that God is looking at you through rose-colored glasses. But in this sense:

Heb 4:13, Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.

They are perfected forever. What does this mean? Perfect (blameless, Righteous, Justified, Redeemed or purchased. etc etc)
Actually sanctified says to be set apart. there are two types

1. We are by position sanctified as being IN CHRIST (perfected forever/ justified, being given the righteousness of Christ. )
2. We are conditionally being sanctified, a work of God, every day as he draws his children towards the goal of becoming christlike. Thats why he said they are BEING sanctified.

The bible speaks of both types. As a believer you should know this. as NO ONE is without sin, yet they are seen as being without sin

Sadly, people get these types mixed up. You have those on the one hand who think because I said some prayer I am saved forever and do not need or have to change (licentious)
then you have those who try to make conditional sanctification a requirement for eternal salvation. (legalism)

And it is impossible for God to lie (Hebrews 6:18, Titus 1:2) so that if God declares us righteous, we are righteous. Even in the practical sense (1 John 3:7, Romans 5:19, Matthew 5:6).

Yes we are. This is called justification. In fact the greek word translated justification is the same greek word translated righteous. It is also a legal term. which means to be "justified" or declaired innocent of any wrong doing.

No one is sinless; but those who have been sanctified have been perfected for ever.

we are on the same page. Do you even understand what I am saying?? WHy are you arguing my point for me? unless you misunderstand me?

For the element of sin, dwelling within us, can be rendered dead (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8) so that it no longer has any say over our behaviour (Romans 6:14, Romans 8:12-13) )so that we can live a perfect life afterwards.

Ahh, I see, You think we can be sinless? Well 1 John 1: 8 tells is if we think this we are deceived. There is a reason for this, What I fear is most people do not know what sin is, They think it is just obeyign commands, Sin is greater than this, I can obey commands, yet in the act of doing those things be in sin. Do you know how?

1Pe 1:3, Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
1Pe 1:4, To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
1Pe 1:5, Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.



OSAS is along the lines of, if I go forward at a church service or Crusade, I can live like hell afterwards and my salvation will not be affected.

This is wrong. This is licentious

OSAS is going along the lines of The God who saved me WILL complete the work he started. that as A child of God, I no longer am my former self. so I will not life like my former self. Because it is not in my nature. In fact as John said, its impossible. And even if I try, The HS will chasten me as a parent. and since I love my parent, I will return (I know I was a prodigal son for 5 years, what this is like)

I prefer the concept of POTS (Perseverance of the Saints).

I do not like this, Because this puts the onus of salvation on the person. Not God.

It means that if you are truly born again, you are a saint and will live like one...and that you will persevere in holy living by faith unto the very end and beyond.

My favorite verses to substantiate POTS are 1 John 3:6 w/ 1 John 2:17. They serve a dual purpose; for they also preach entire sanctification quite well.

There is to much I in this equation.

Our power comes from Faith. We love because God first loved us, Our sanctification is powered By Gods love and his power. In fact, it is our knowledge we have eternal life. which empowers us to believe.

Water baptism is a possible interpretation of what Jesus means by "water" in John 3:5.

And also, if He is speaking of water baptism, then for anyone to interpret it differently and behave accordingly (by not being baptized for salvation) would be to gamble away their soul.

If He is not speaking of water baptism, then to believe that He is, and to act accordingly, is to cover all your bases; and you lose nothing. While in being baptized you gain everything if He is speaking of water baptism.

So, my exhortation would be, don't put it off any longer if you haven't gotten "this one done"...

Act 22:16, And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.



Such an endearing soul...

It is NOT possible. If it WAS possible. then why did jersus leave the word out when he told Nicodemus HOW to be born again?

Baptism is a work of righteousness. Paul said it is not by works of righteousness we have done but by his mercy. So adding any work, you are rejecting grace. because as paul also said, if it is grace it is not of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.

Also. Baptism is nothign more than the NT version of circumcision. Paul said if a person added that work to the gospel they should be damned. so why should not adding any work follow this same anathema? Finally. As paul said in col 2. It is the baptism of the spirit (circumcision by the hand of God) which saves not the baptism of man.

Again, You have to much ME in the equation and not enough God.

 

[justbyfaith]

Cut off from the means to be saved

So you agree with me that a person who does not continue in His goodness either loses his salvation or else was never saved in the first place.

Because if you are cut off from the means of salvation, how are you saved?

Actually sanctified says to be set apart.

It means to be made holy; and we are not to divorce that meaning from the word when we read it.

Ahh, I see, You think we can be sinless? Well 1 John 1: 8 tells is if we think this we are deceived.

We can walk in freedom from sin (John 8:31-36) and victory over sin (1 Corinthians 15:57).

1 John 1:8 is speaking of indwelling sin rather than practical sins. Otherwise it is in contradiction to 1 John 3:5-9; which is in the immediate context (the same epistle).

OSAS is going along the lines of The God who saved me WILL complete the work he started. that as A child of God, I no longer am my former self. so I will not life like my former self.

You are referring to what is taught in the doctrine of POTS rather than OSAS.

There is to much I in this equation.

Our power comes from Faith. We love because God first loved us, Our sanctification is powered By Gods love and his power. In fact, it is our knowledge we have eternal life. which empowers us to believe.

And of course, I have not argued that sanctification is not by God's love and power. I assumed that you would take that as a given; and it was not the exact subject that was at hand.

It is NOT possible. If it WAS possible. then why did jersus leave the word out when he told Nicodemus HOW to be born again?

"jersus"?

That is a very grave error impaho. If you get the name of Jesus wrong when you are trying to call upon His name you can end up in the lake of fire.

Jesus substantiated the doctrine of baptism by His actions (see John 4:1-2)...and also, He didn't leave it out of what He spoke (see John 3:5).

Baptism is a work of righteousness.

Baptism is not a work...

Because if someone believes and is baptized, they shall be saved (Mark 16:16, Acts of the Apostles 2:38-39).

However, we are not saved by works (Ephesians 2:8-9).

Therefore, baptism is not a work.

Also. Baptism is nothign more than the NT version of circumcision. Paul said if a person added that work to the gospel they should be damned. so why should not adding any work follow this same anathema?

So, I think you are saying that if a person believes and is baptized, they will be damned?

The Bible very clearly says the opposite (Mark 16:16, Acts of the Apostles 2:38-39)

 

[Taken]

See your arrogant. You THINK you have done something you have by no means even come close to doing.

You cant even prove your own point, Yet you think you have me on my heals..

As for what I think of most catholics. I can only go from what I have experienced from them. And you fit their mold perfectly.

Its a taught "TARGET ATTACK" narrative.

* First rattle (BLATHER) out of the box (THEIR MOUTH)...
* Declare the "opponent"...wrong, lying, not correct, ignorant, bigot, anti-, racist, hater...blah, blah, which ever negative words they grab from their "PAT LIST' ...

* THEN blather out whatever gobbelgook they IMPLY is absolute TRUTH.

* Now if that "does not succeed" with Flying colors.... DEFLECT, DEFLECT, DEFLECT.

* If DEFLECTION "does not succeed"...
THEN "DICTATE", and claim, "you don't need Scripture", to know the WORD of God...

LOL...Its a BALLYHOO...of insignificant noise, and circle jerking, to Deflect away from the TRUTH, "THEY" are REJECTING, and desperately trying to get others to also "REJECT" the Truth.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Can you name some people? I have yet to meat anyone who thinks this. The only time I hear it is from non osas people.. I am just asking

I know it is a risk of people who think once you say a prayer sin does not matter. But I have never heard it taught this way.

I think the danger is there. But in reality. Most people know better

Blood Bought53 and Behold. Of course they rail against sin, and rightfully so, but they insist it has zero connection to the matter of salvation. They say you can be in the sin of an outright rejection of Christ and you are still saved. I think you and I agree that if one is in unbelief they are in no way shape or form saved. I thought maybe Behold was coming around to his senses but maybe not.

 

[Taken]

See your arrogant. You THINK you have done something you have by no means even come close to doing.

You cant even prove your own point, Yet you think you have me on my heals..

As for what I think of most catholics. I can only go from what I have experienced from them. And you fit their mold perfectly.

That is funny, a Catholic (who by his own self-appointment officially speaks for Catholics)...
Says...."educated Catholics ARE ARROGANT!"..."BECAUSE they ARE Educated!"
LOL LOL LOL.

Men Educated ABOUT Christ and Converted IN Christ, are Assured and Confidant...
NOT ARROGANT!

The CATHOLIC TEACHER, is funny.

 

[marks]

Today's version of osas has many Christians thinking their sin doesn't matter.

Can you name some people? I have yet to meat anyone who thinks this. The only time I hear it is from non osas people.. I am just asking

I know it is a risk of people who think once you say a prayer sin does not matter. But I have never heard it taught this way.

I think the danger is there. But in reality. Most people know better

"thinking their sin doesn't matter", that's an incredibly vague statement.

The scandal of grace is that our sins are forgiven, even these simple ones like impugning others with words they didn't say.

Or using sly innuendo to make it seem like something else . . .

The scandal of grace is that ALL of our sins are gone.

Much love!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

No. Precisely your Conversion is your giving GOD authority, FOR HIS POWER to KEEP YOU IN BELIEF.

But then he tells converted people to keep believing, so apparently believing is not as automatic and assured to continue as some insist.

 

[Waiting on him]

The Lord doesn't ask much from us! But He demands faith, the Holy Spirit has no legal authority according to Gods rules, to operate in a person who no longer believes.

As I have said a couple of times before, just as Ezekiel witnessed the Spirit leaving the temple because of unbelief, so it is with the individual.

Gods rules branch from the Law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus, and the Law of sin and death, according to the apostle Paul.

These Laws demand faith in Christ or the alternative, the consequences of the Law of sin and death.

Galatians 5:22-23 KJV
[22] But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, [23] Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.