Once Saved Always Saved

[Ferris Bueller]

If you want to debate whether predestination is in the Bible, you are going to have a tough time, because clearly it is! Not only in Eph 1 and Rom 8, but many other places.

The objection is not that predestination is not in the Bible. The objection is to what Calvin said it means.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Both doctrines require faith day by day and both doctrines don't give the person assurance that they are in.

It's true that whatever a person thinks about osas it doesn't preclude the necessity to believe and to believe to the very end. And that is what we should be focusing on, not the hypothetical question of whether one can lose their salvation or not. The answer to that centuries old question doesn't change our obligation to continue to believe in God.

And as far as the matter of assurance, the Bible is very clear that we gain assurance that we really are saved when we see the consequences of our salvation in our ever increasing obedience to God. The more you look like Jesus in this world the more assurance you have that you are saved and ready to stand before God at the final judgment.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

What is so dangerous about OSAS

Today's version of osas has many Christians thinking their sin doesn't matter.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I thought Paul said God's gifts are irrevocable and our sealing by God's Holy Spirit assured the promise. How are we able to lose Salvation if Jesus said we are in his hands always?

There are lots of dead Israelites in hell today who will tell you Romans 11:29 doesn't mean what the church says it means. And there will be lots of saved Israelites in the future, perhaps some who aren't even born yet, who will tell you it means everything Paul says it means. It's important to keep Romans 11:29 in the context of the passage. God will never go back on the promise he made to the Patriarchs about the nation of Israel, despite the fact that they have rejected Christ and most of them are in hell today.

In regard to osas, the condition for receiving and keeping God's promises is that you are a believer. Calvin's original osas teaching says the true believer will always keep believing. Aminianism says you can stop believing and that will cause you to lose your salvation. But both agree that you must be a believer to the very end to be saved when Jesus comes back. That is what we are to be teaching and encouraging each other in. Whether osas is really true or not does not change that truth one iota. The important thing is that we continue to believe to the very end. Calvinism says if you stop believing you were never a true believer to begin with and you will be lost. Arminianism says if you stop believing you will be lost. They both agree that you must remain a believer to be saved when Jesus comes back.

 

[justbyfaith]

Of course, if, in falling away from the faith, the conclusion is that you never were a true believer, it seems to me that when you look at Hebrews 6:1-8, you can repent if falling away from the faith means you never were born again.

If on the other hand, you were genuinely saved, then the same passage teaches that falling away from the faith means that there is no hope of redemption for you.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

There is nothing else that gives us confidence.
See, when you understand that God is kept at peace with us, not by our works, and not by our continuing to believe, but only by Christ's Blood.

Your believing is how you have God's keeping power.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Of course, if, in falling away from the faith, the conclusion is that you never were a true believer, it seems to me that when you look at Hebrews 6:1-8, you can repent if falling away from the faith means you never were born again.

If on the other hand, you were genuinely saved, then the same passage teaches that falling away from the faith means that there is nor hope of redemption for you.

People would do well to consider this.

 

[Taken]

If OSASers are wrong they are guilty of leading people to Hell fire. Never heard of Judgment Day?

Mark 13:13 (NKJV)
13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved.

No OSAS in the Bible.

 

[Taken]

What's wrong with forgiven? How many times did I "repeat forgiven"?

 

[Taken]

You're preaching OSAS to Christians like you're trying to convince yourself.

Non converted men should know what Jesus has offered them to have.

 

[Taken]

Yet, not ONE of you has been able to produce a SINGLE verse of Scripture that denies infant Baptism.

LOL ~
A water ritual does not save anyone.
Didn't your read what "John the Baptists" water baptism was for?

Luke 3:
[3] And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins...

So...as an Infant, what? 8 days old, 1 year old? Someone poured water on your head, and declared (without your knowledge) your sins were forgiven?

What sins did you repent of and were you (unknowingly forgiven)?

Hummm?

 

[Taken]

In fact, the CONTEXT (I know you hate that word) of Scripture shows that babies WERE Baptized when Paul Baptized the ENTIRE households of Stephanas and the Philippian Jailer. Similarly, Peter Baptized the ENTIRE household of Cornelius.

So, unless you actually believe that everybody in those households was an adult - you have a problem . . .

Water Baptism is a ritual for "men" TO SEE.
John Baptizing Jesus with water WAS FOR MEN to SEE.
Less you think, Jesus' water Baptism, FORGAVE 'HIS' sins....which would mean, you do not know, Jesus had NO SIN to be Forgiven!

Water didn't forgive Jesus' SINS, any more than Water forgave, your SINS.

A little Scriptural notice... Sins are forgiven BY the Lord God, for Confessing Heartful belief, IN Jesus and the One who sent Him.

Somehow, I doubt you (as an infant), confessed Belief.

You unknowingly took part in a water ritual, that neither saved your soul or quickened your spirit....
Jesus' Baptism is the Baptism that saves souls and quickens spirits...
Very Strange, you do not know the difference.

 

[justbyfaith]

And yet you (@Blood Bought 1953) "have thoughts that would shame hell".

I guess that all of Christianity is a religion of contradictions.

Mat 23:25, Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
Mat 23:26, Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.
Mat 23:27, Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
Mat 23:28, Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.

Your (@Blood Bought 1953's) posts are confusing. In one post you're the worst sinner on the planet. Then in the next you aren't because you don't want to be. Which one is really the truth?

Pro 26:26, Whose hatred is covered by deceit, his wickedness shall be shewed before the whole congregation.

 

[Taken]

Nope - but I'm not surprised that you can't understand. YOU actually believe that you don't sin.

I actually BELIEVE Scripture...
Scripture TEACHES the TRUTH.
WHOSOEVER is born of God, CAN NOT SIN.
(1 John 3:9)
I was OFFERED...forgiveness OF my SINS..
And I accepted the Lords OFFER.
Because I accepted the Lords OFFERING,
I was given Gods Seed.
Because I was given Gods Seed,
His Seed rebirthed MY spirit.
When His SEED rebirthed MY spirit...
I became "WHOSOEVER" born of God.
And thereafter, I can NEVER SIN AGAIN.

I realize it is a strange doctrine for you...
But none the Less, it is The Lords Doctrine, and your unbelief of The Lords Doctrine...
Has ZERO effect on me.

Stumbling

in sin is a result of our fallen nature.

Stumbling is a result OF "YOUR" FALLEN nature.
YOU hang ON TO "YOUR" FALLEN nature.
(THAT is "YOUR" delimma, and "EXCUSE", to continue to claim " you CONTINUE sin", and your "EXCUSE", to continuously wag your tongue and accuse others of committing SIN".)

Unlike "YOU", I offered my "FALLEN NATURE", to be CRUCIFIED with Christ.
"MY" fallen nature IS DEAD!

Rom 6:
[7] For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Whereas, some live FOR sin -

LOL...people Live FOR sin? LOL
YOU LIVE in "your fallen nature"... so you can sin? WEIRD!

Christians strive NOT to sin but sometimes use bad judgement.

YOU LIVE in "your fallen nature" ... but try really hard, "not to sin" ?

OXYMORON...You should have learned from the Tribes of Israel...they could not overcome SINNING (according to THEIR LAW), without their BODY BECOMING PHYSICALLY DEAD!

You remain in your "Natuaral Fallen" state...
And Continue to SIN, (according to Mosaic Law)
And...
You wag your finger at others, claiming THEY COMMIT SIN, (according to MOSAIC LAW)...
AND NEVER COME TO UNDERSTANDING OF THE TRUTH.

The knowledge of the TRUTH IS in Scripture.
It affects me NOT ONE IOTA, if "YOU" TRUST or BELIEVE Scripture.

It affects me NOT ONE IOTA, if you "keep your Fallen Nature", and use that as an EXCUSE to continue to SIN and accuse others.

I ACCEPTED the Lords OFFERING...
I repented to The Lord.
He forgave my all of my sins.
He accepted the crucified Death of my body.
He restored my soul.
He quickened my spirit.
His Spirit IS IN ME...
And NO, NEVER AGAIN, CAN I SIN.

You may "think" you have the Lords SPIRIT IN YOU...and CAN SIN...
However I BELIEVE MY Lord CAN NOT DWELL IN SIN!

The difference between a Christian and a non-believer, however, is repentance.

But, but, but...as an INFANT, "you did NOT REPENT!"

Maybe

it'll happen to YOU someday . . .

Your Deafness, and Failure to comprehend Has NOT ONE IOTA TO DO with my having RECEIVED the Lords Gift of Salvation of my soul and Quickening of my spirit, and Power of God to be free from Sin, and Sin no more.

Your teaching of a water ritual...does nothing to save ones soul or quicken ones spirit...
(As you claim).

You SHOULD, actually READ the Scriptures...
Jesus' Baptism is the ONLY Baptism that saves a mans soul and quickens a mans spirit....ONCE and For Ever!

Hint...
Acts 2:
[38] Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

READ IT... REPENT before receiving the Lords Baptism...

You preach, you received the Lords Baptism ... as an Infant...WITHOUT REPENTING!

False Preaching.

 

[Taken]

You don't sin?

Correct.

That would be another deception besides OSAS.

I can not Believe Scripture "FOR YOU".
I can Believe Scripture "FOR ME".

It affects me NOT ONE IOTA, that 'YOU SIN".
The Lord offered ME freedom FROM SIN...
And I accepted HIS Offering.

You will have to continue your natural life, wondering how and why you can not be Free from sin....since you have not figured it out, and reveal you would rather argue your position of "continuing to Sin"... than accept Jesus' Truth.

Its called "stubbornness"...on your behalf.
And God called "stubborn" people...
Stiffnecked.

And BTW, Jesus' Disciples taught...
Acts 7:
[51] Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

2 Cor 30:
[8] Now be ye not stiffnecked, as your fathers were, but yield yourselves unto the LORD, and enter into his sanctuary, which he hath sanctified for ever: and serve the LORD your God, that the fierceness of his wrath may turn away from you.

His Sanctuary, IS Christ, IS His Church...
ONCE IN, it IS FOR EVER.

But, but, but,....no effect ON ME...if that is not your choice.

 

[Behold]

Nuthin' like a game of Scriptural Acrobatics to make your point.

Jesus didn't say: Unless a man is born of water, THEN born of the Spirit", Einstein.
He said, "Unless a man is born of water AND the Spirit"

"Water, THEN, the Spirit" = TWO births - natural, THEN spiritual.
"Water AND the Spirit" = ONE Birth, NEW Birth.

STUDY your Bible . . .

It pretty obvious that you're no Einstein, as common sense has no effect on you, ive noticed.
The reality is, you can't be an Einstein, and a Catholic.
So, your thought process, is typical of water cult mentality.

So, let me try again for you.

1. Were you born or hatched? If you were born then your mother's water broke, and you came out from that natural birth
THats the 1st Birth, "of water".

2. Now you need a 2nd birth as you've already been born once.....

 

[Behold]

That's NOT what Jesus said:
Matt. 10:28
And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

.

You're verse proves you are you reaching into the dark hoping to find a clue.

Look at your symbolic verse.
No one has a "body" in hell, as their body is in the grave back on earth, unless it was lost and rotted, or it was cremated.

You're welcome to try again, but its not going to help, as posting random "cut and paste" verses, that are disconnected is a fool's game.
You've mastered it.

 

[Behold]

Ummmm, an "Apostate" is one who turns their back on their faith.
According o YOUR warped, man-made beliefs, this is impossoble.
Do yourself a favor and open a Dictionary while you STUDY the Bible . . .

Faith does not save you.
God saves you through your faith.
God accepts faith to SAVE YOU.
Once He does, its done.
A person can never stop being born again.

 

[Behold]

Your believing is how you have God's keeping power.

Listen.

Is faith the savior, or is God the Savior?
Its not both.
Go with God, and stop believing in faith.
Stop trying to keep yourself saved, as you can't do it.
God does it for you.

Philippians 1:6

Faith does not save you.
God saves you, by accepting your faith, ONCE.
Just once.
You are saved ONCE.
Born again ONCE., and you can never stop being born again, as this is a BIRTH and you cant undo a birth by bad behavior or how you think.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

What?

Yeah that's what I thought. You do not understand what it is that makes us worthy of Death. That would explain why you water down the law..

You don't believe OSAS?

I said I do not teach OSAS. I teach Jesus and him crucified. And salvation by grace through faith. Everything else is given once we recieve Christ.

OSAS is a doctrine. Which is meaningless to those who are not saved,

So, Christians are God's robots?

What? Because God promised all those things?

Why do you deny the power of God to change his people? And deny his love and its power to change his people?

I don't.

Yet everything you teach is based on what YOU must do. Not what God has done, is doing and will continue to do.

NOSAS is based on mans work not Gods work.