Once Saved Always Saved

[FHII]

This is a Christian forum. You're saying we have eternal life and can never lose it no matter what! Why are you preaching OSAS to us?

Kcnalp, your posts come off as mocking, but that's ok... I'm cool with that. But I want to explain my position to you and hope you see the key points as why I believe what I do.

While I don't believe in "OSAS doctrine" (bear with me in my folly) I do believe in predestination. Frankly, John Calvin didn't believe in what is now presented as OSAS, but he did believe in predestination. He and I have good reason for that: its directly spoken of in Romans 8 and Ephesians 1. The concept is also talked about in other ways multiple times.

A real quick note on John Calvin: if the OSAS doctrine means a Christian can do whatever he wants and is ok.... John preached heavily against that! Have you heard the notion that grace isn't a liscense to sin? (Of course you have!) Well, Calvin is the earliest person I can find to directly use that saying.

In any sense, back to predestination. Its a big part of OSAS. Calvin wrote 3 chapters in one book about it and that's why his followers came up with OSAS and Tulip after he died. Again, I believe Calvin would roll over in his grave if he knew what his partial writings evolved into.

If you want to debate whether predestination is in the Bible, you are going to have a tough time, because clearly it is! Not only in Eph 1 and Rom 8, but many other places.

My stance is that there are people who God knows and foreordained to be saved. Not only did he know it, but he planned it. If you are in any way familiar with the argument, you already know most of the verses I would bring up. Likewise, I know your verses you would counter with.

The fact is that yes... A person can be in a Christian lifestyle and properly so and walk away. It was talked about in the Bible and it happens today. This is fuel for proponents of "free will" to say, "see"?

I get that... It seems like a logical argument. But there is one passage brings it into proper perspective:

1 John 2:19 KJV
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

A person who identifies with Jesus but then walks away was never truly a Christian. That verse and a few others explain why predestination is a truth and destroys the "free moral agent" doctrine and puts verses like Hebrews 10 and Hebrews 6 and 2 Peter 2 in proper perspective. Yes, you can leave and before you left you may have "walked the walk" pretty well! But according to 1 John 2... You were always"not of us".

However, in a practical sense, I find the concept of predestination pretty useless. It there, its reassuring, it pairs nicely with the guidelines given to be saved, but 1 John 2 is also a warning. It tells us we must persevere to the end, and with the fact that ole FHII and Kcnalp aren't directly mentioned in the Bible... We aren't given assurance! We get the gameplan, God knows the outcome, and yea... He declared it before the foundations of the world... But he tells very few people before they finish.... And even them he did tell were still walking on thin ice. They still struggled to complete the task.

So, if you are one that believes we can lose our salvation if we don't remain faithful, I don't have a problem with that. My belief is that we never had it to begin with because God already knew. But my belief also is that while God knew, he doesn't tell us, so we have to contend for the faith daily. In the end, whats the difference? Both doctrines require faith day by day and both doctrines don't give the person assurance that they are in.

I am hoping that you at least get my perspective..

 

[BloodBought 1953]

If only Christians understood that keeping the 2nd greatest commandment is how you keep the 1st one.

If only people would admit that they DO NEITHER ! They need Grace ...it’s the only thing that will work...

NOBODY but Jesus has ever Loved others and God to the extent that we should....once again...swallow your Pride and throw yourself upon the Mercy and Grace of God....

 

[BloodBought 1953]

And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

.....and what does Jesus say to do , this side of the Cross ? Two things.... “Believe and Love”.... 1 John3:23.....Two simple, little Rules.....and nobody does even THOSE two things to the extent that we should.....we are STILL “ trapped like rats”. We MUST have Grace.

 

[justbyfaith]

If only people would admit that they DO NEITHER ! They need Grace ...it’s the only thing that will work...

NOBODY but Jesus has ever Loved others and God to the extent that we should....once again...swallow your Pride and throw yourself upon the Mercy and Grace of God....

We are all sinners and there is nothing we can do about that...

So, let's all just resign ourselves to the fact that we are sinners and sin like the sinners that we are!

After all, there is no remedy for sin in the Bible...

Jesus will forgive you and take away the penalty of sin, but He will do nothing about sin itself...

So, sin and its consequences are basically going to be an eternal problem...

Since death, sorrow, crying, and pain are the result of sin, these things are going to exist throughout eternity in heaven...

Thank God that that is not the truth!

(see Revelation 21:4).

 

[justbyfaith]

The righteousness of the law is fulfilled in those who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit (Romans 8:4).

The love of God is shed abroad in our hearts through the Holy Ghost which is given to us (Romans 5:5).

This love is the bond of perfectness (Colossians 3:14).

It is also not impractical (1 John 3:17-18).

It is the fulfilling of the righteousness of the law within us (Romans 13:8-10, Galatians 5:14, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 8:4).

There is no law against your behaviour when you are bearing the fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23).

This is a righteousness apart from the law, which is nevertheless attested to by the law and the prophets (Romans 3:21) that it is righteousness indeed.

For we do not obtain it by seeking to obey a set of do's and don'ts; but we obtain it by faith in Jesus Christ: as He places His Spirit in our hearts by faith (Galatians 3:14) and as we bear the fruit of the Spirit, there is no law that we will violate in our behaviour (Galatians 5:22-23, Romans 8:4).

If we do what is righteous, we will be (practically) righteous even as Jesus is righteous (1 John 3:7).

If we have this hope in Jesus, that when we see Him, we shall be like Him (for we shall see Him as He is), then we purify ourselves, even as He is pure (1 John 3:3).

If we abide in Jesus, we will walk even as He walked (1 John 2:6).

 

[justbyfaith]

It has been my continual prayer, almost every night, that every word that comes off of my keyboard might be from the Holy Ghost.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

You're in danger of going to Hell?

I can’t go to Hell for ANY reason....too late for that now.....the” monkey” is on God’s back to save me, to put it crudely.....His Word is at stake and He will move Heaven and Hell to see that His Word comes to pass .....
God said That “ Anybody that ASKED to be Saved , WILL be Saved”......I DID my part when I Asked....now it’s up yo Him to do HIS part.....Foolish me—- I actually Believe that God keeps His Word.....I do as Commanded....I REST in the Gospel Of Grace Plus Nothing ......I know how to Truly Sabbath.....and when I say “Sabbath”—- I MEAN Sabbath.......I REST in the Finished Work Of The Cross and man , is this “ Abundant Life” That Jesus Promised sweet or what? I hope you find it. Until you REST in the Gospel Of Grace, you won’t....

 

[BloodBought 1953]

I never said "merit". Stop twisting my words. You're calling me "a DAMNED FOOL"?

Down boy , down! Lol....I was speaking generically .....it was not intended to be personal ....
But “if the shoe fits”......

 

[justbyfaith]

I can’t go to Hell for ANY reason....too late for that now.....the” monkey” is on God’s back to save me, to put it crudely.....His Word is at stake and He will move Heaven and Hell to see that His Word comes to pass .....
God said That “ Anybody that ASKED to be Saved , WILL be Saved”......I DID my part when I Asked....now it’s up yo Him to do HIS part.....Foolish me—- I actually Believe that God keeps His Word.....I do as Commanded....I REST in the Gospel Of Grace Plus Nothing ......I know how to Truly Sabbath.....and when I say “Sabbath”—- I MEAN Sabbath.......I REST in the Finished Work Of The Cross and man , is this “ Abundant Life” That Jesus Promised sweet or what? I hope you find it. Until you REST in the Gospel Of Grace, you won’t....

You have cast off the fear of the Lord; and therefore you are not wise.

Job 28:20, Whence then cometh wisdom? and where is the place of understanding?
Job 28:21, Seeing it is hid from the eyes of all living, and kept close from the fowls of the air.
Job 28:22, Destruction and death say, We have heard the fame thereof with our ears.
Job 28:23, God understandeth the way thereof, and he knoweth the place thereof.
Job 28:24, For he looketh to the ends of the earth, and seeth under the whole heaven;
Job 28:25, To make the weight for the winds; and he weigheth the waters by measure.
Job 28:26, When he made a decree for the rain, and a way for the lightning of the thunder:
Job 28:27, Then did he see it, and declare it; he prepared it, yea, and searched it out.
Job 28:28, And unto man he said, Behold, the fear of the Lord, that is wisdom; and to depart from evil is understanding.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

I continually quote Scripture. Don't you read them?

“ Satan can quote Scripture for his own purposes” Don't get your panties in a knot.....I am not addressing you personally.....I’m just sayin’......

 

[BloodBought 1953]

But many do live like the Devil because they believe they can't fall away. They've been duped.

Ahhhhh....That Old Canard...... I don’t live like the devil nor do I know anybody else that shares in the Doctrine Of OSAS That does......
Here is what you don't get.....the same exact second that I understood that I was totally forgiven from ALL of my sins no matter what I did was the very same second that I didn’t want to Sin anymore.....ain’t Christianity crazy? The True Chief Of Sinners ( me) is FREE to do whatever he wants to do and he can “ never be condemned” ......But what exactly is it that he really WANTS to do? He wants to be His Slave. I warned you! True Christianity is “ Crazy” .....Perhaps some of you should just “ steer clear”...... you don’t “ get it”, and you most likely never will.....
“The Man That finds Life will find it by Trusting God”...... that’s all that I ever did....the Sinful Behaviors Some Of you are obsessed about Just kinda took care of themselves....these days, I am much more “ SON” conscience than I am “ SIN” Conscience....why not give it a whirl? .... get off the Milk and grab some Spiritual Meat.....

 

[justbyfaith]

“ Satan can quote Scripture for his own purposes”

When satan quotes scripture, he will usually leave out the part that will help you the most to defeat him in that battle.

In other words, any time the devil quotes scripture, he will quote half a scripture...

As was the case in Matthew 4:6 and Luke 4:10-11 as compared to Psalms 91:11-12; where the devil omitted the words, "in all thy ways" lest Jesus be encouraged that holy angels might help him in His current-at-that-time battle with him.

 

[justbyfaith]

Ahhhhh....That Old Canard...... I don’t live like the devil

And yet you "have thoughts that would shame hell".

I guess that all of Christianity is a religion of contradictions.

 

[justbyfaith]

Mat 23:25, Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
Mat 23:26, Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.
Mat 23:27, Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
Mat 23:28, Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Yep no,pride here.

your right everyone else is wrong, if we do not agree with you we are ignorant.

get real man, your a stain on the reputation of your church

The Romanist Cult Of Mary whose entire Adherents are “ Fallen From Grace” and don’t even know what that term means , already have enough “ stains” to fill a warehouse.....

 

[BloodBought 1953]

And who is it that “endures ?”.... “He that believes that Jesus is the Son Of God”

 

[Ferris Bueller]

If only people would admit that they DO NEITHER !

I know lot's of Christians who love God/love others. Why do they need to admit they do neither?

They need Grace ...it’s the only thing that will work...

Will work for what? We're talking about the practical expression of the love for God in a person's life here. This is isn't about trying to achieve some purpose or goal by loving God/loving others.

NOBODY but Jesus has ever Loved others and God to the extent that we should..

Don't you know that whenever you do right in a situation you are loving God? Don't get hung up on the overall picture. Strive, through the power of the Spirit, to respond in the love of God in the next situation that demands it. One day, one moment at a time, BB.

..once again...swallow your Pride....

Simply acknowledging that you are a changed person who is growing up into the image and stature of Christ who loves God and loves others is not a boast of pride......

"...whoever practices the truth comes into the Light, so that it may be seen clearly that what he has done has been accomplished in God.” John 3:21​

....and throw yourself upon the Mercy and Grace of God....

You not only just throw yourself on the mercy of God to be forgiven when you fail to love others, but you also do that to find the power to love others in your time of need......

For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who was tempted in every way that we are, yet was without sin. Let us then approach the throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need. Hebrews 4:15-16​

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Ahhhhh....That Old Canard...... I don’t live like the devil nor do I know anybody else that shares in the Doctrine Of OSAS That does......
Here is what you don't get.....the same exact second that I understood that I was totally forgiven from ALL of my sins no matter what I did was the very same second that I didn’t want to Sin anymore.....ain’t Christianity crazy? The True Chief Of Sinners ( me) is FREE to do whatever he wants to do and he can “ never be condemned” ......But what exactly is it that he really WANTS to do? He wants to be His Slave. I warned you! True Christianity is “ Crazy” .....Perhaps some of you should just “ steer clear”...... you don’t “ get it”, and you most likely never will.....
“The Man That finds Life will find it by Trusting God”...... that’s all that I ever did....the Sinful Behaviors Some Of you are obsessed about Just kinda took care of themselves....these days, I am much more “ SON” conscience than I am “ SIN” Conscience....why not give it a whirl? .... get off the Milk and grab some Spiritual Meat.....

Your posts are confusing. In one post you're the worst sinner on the planet. Then in the next you aren't because you don't want to be. Which one is really the truth?

 

[justbyfaith]

[]And this is why I am bowing out of this conversation with you in particular,


Who says that God does not answer prayers !

I suppose that I have the right to change my mind; if what I am reading in the holy scriptures leads me to do so.

The Lord spoke the following to me today in my personal reading, so I will not be so quick to give up on @Blood Bought 1953...

Gal 6:9, And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

.....and what does Jesus say to do , this side of the Cross ? Two things.... “Believe and Love”.... 1 John3:23.....Two simple, little Rules.....and nobody does even THOSE two things to the extent that we should.....we are STILL “ trapped like rats”. We MUST have Grace.

I don't feel trapped at all. I've come a long way. Just because you or someone else hasn't does that mean nobody has and never will?