For free will believers out there

[Truther]

I guess you don't believe Jesus was God?

Not until after the resurrection.

Col 2:9 happened to him after resurrecting making him God by default.

My God is not humble, nor can He die.

 

[justbyfaith]

Yes, no one knows who the chosen are. No, one’s genuine believing in Christ does not cause him to be of the elect. Rather, one’s genuine believing in Christ manifest him to be one of those chosen by the Father whom He has given to the Son to raise up at the last day.


Jude 1:3-4 does not teach that God predestined some people to sin and condemnation.

Tong
R2235

I think that it can suffice us to say that if we have received Jesus as our Lord and Saviour, we can look back at the door that we walked through, which on the outside said, "Whosoever will, let him come" and will see a sign that says, "predestined from before the foundations of the world."

Thus, if someone is standing before the same door on the outside, the choice is theirs as to whether they will walk through that door; and if they do, they will find that they were always of the elect.

Agree or disagree,

@Tong2020?

 

[101G]

Also @101G

I agree that not all mankind are God’s people.

The view that all mankind (fallen) are God’s people go against the truth revealed in scriptures.

first thanks for the reply, second, maybe I didn't make myself clear enough. or maybe you just didn't understand what I was saying. all people are God's because he CREATED US ALL, the Good the Bad and the Ugly. now as for the Fallen, we all has been in that state, before the cross, but as in Adam sin was imputed unto us all, even those who did not sin after his transgression, listen, Romans 5:12 "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:"
Romans 5:13 "(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law."
Romans 5:14 "Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come."

now that figure of him, "GOD", that was to come, is Jesus the Christ, and he put an end of the transfer of sin. listen,

Romans 4:1 "What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?"
Romans 4:2 "For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God."
Romans 4:3 "For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness."

Romans 4:11 "And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:" BINGO , there it is.... ALL WHO WILL BELIEVE.

now listen, Romans 4:23 "Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;"
Romans 4:24 "But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;" BINGO.
Romans 4:25 "Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification."

please read romans chapter 4 and %.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[Tong2020]

For anyone's information.

Jesus was MADE God after his God resurrected him from the dead.

Thomas was the first to get that revelation.

Consider what the following scriptures says about Jesus Christ:

Phil. 2:6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, 7 made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross.

<<<Jesus was MADE God>>>

Consider this truth:

Isaiah 43:10 “You are My witnesses,” says the Lord, “And My servant whom I have chosen, That you may know and believe Me, And understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, Nor shall there be after Me.

Tong
R2238

 

[Truther]

Consider what the following scriptures says about Jesus Christ:

Phil. 2:6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, 7 made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross.

<<<Jesus was MADE God>>>

Consider this truth:

Isaiah 43:10 “You are My witnesses,” says the Lord, “And My servant whom I have chosen, That you may know and believe Me, And understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, Nor shall there be after Me.

Tong
R2238

Bad incarnationist modern version.

 

[Renniks]

Not until after the resurrection.

Col 2:9 happened to him after resurrecting making him God by default.

My God is not humble, nor can He die.

Weird.

 

[Renniks]

Consider what the following scriptures says about Jesus Christ:

Phil. 2:6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, 7 made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross.

<<<Jesus was MADE God>>>

Consider this truth:

Isaiah 43:10 “You are My witnesses,” says the Lord, “And My servant whom I have chosen, That you may know and believe Me, And understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, Nor shall there be after Me.

Tong
R2238

Jesus was always God.

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
This is what I said:

“People who have love for him are those who God had loved first.”

You said in reply:

“This isn't true, God loved us before we had love for him,...,.”

What isn’t true in what I said?

You are wrong because before God created mankind he loved us. We can't love God if we don't exist yet.
In post # 379 where you first said, "People who have love for him are those who God had loved first.” I was talking about those who are faithful to God are those who love God. Now we know that not all people are faithful so I honestly can't say that all people love God because if they did they would be exercising faith in him because of their love for him. The point is God loved life so much he wanted to give life to others. Since God gave life to mankind he loved all mankind before he created mankind. Even after creating mankind after mankind had fallen into sin he still loved mankind so much that he sent his Only-Begotten Son to die for all of mankind and at that time the world of mankind was God enemies. So God has always loved all mankind not just the ones who love him and are exercising faith in him now. He loves all mankind so much he doesn't want anyone to perish so he's allowing time for others to show their love by exercising faith in him.

I agree that God loved mankind even before He created them. Now, I did not say that all mankind love God.

<<<The point is God loved life so much he wanted to give life to others.>>>

And my point is, why any man love God is because God first love him.

Tong
R2239

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Yes, no one knows who the chosen are. No, one’s genuine believing in Christ does not cause him to be of the elect. Rather, one’s genuine believing in Christ manifest him to be one of those chosen by the Father whom He has given to the Son to raise up at the last day.


Jude 1:3-4 does not teach that God predestined some people to sin and condemnation.

I think that it can suffice us to say that if we have received Jesus as our Lord and Saviour, we can look back at the door that we walked through, which on the outside said, "Whosoever will, let him come" and will see a sign that says, "predestined from before the foundations of the world."

Thus, if someone is standing before the same door on the outside, the choice is theirs as to whether they will walk through that door; and if they do, they will find that they were always of the elect.

Agree or disagree,

@Tong2020?

Agree, except for that which is written at the door on the outside. Perhaps, “Door of the Jesus’ sheep.”

Tong
R2240

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Also @101G

I agree that not all mankind are God’s people.

The view that all mankind (fallen) are God’s people go against the truth revealed in scriptures.

first thanks for the reply, second, maybe I didn't make myself clear enough. or maybe you just didn't understand what I was saying. all people are God's because he CREATED US ALL, the Good the Bad and the Ugly. now as for the Fallen, we all has been in that state, before the cross, but as in Adam sin was imputed unto us all, even those who did not sin after his transgression, listen, Romans 5:12 "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:"
Romans 5:13 "(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law."
Romans 5:14 "Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come."

now that figure of him, "GOD", that was to come, is Jesus the Christ, and he put an end of the transfer of sin. listen,

Romans 4:1 "What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?"
Romans 4:2 "For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God."
Romans 4:3 "For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness."

Romans 4:11 "And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:" BINGO , there it is.... ALL WHO WILL BELIEVE.

now listen, Romans 4:23 "Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;"
Romans 4:24 "But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;" BINGO.
Romans 4:25 "Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification."

please read romans chapter 4 and %.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

<<<he put an end of the transfer of sin. listen,>>>

The scriptures you quoted does not say that nor effectively say that.

Please consider:

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.

Tong
R2241

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Consider what the following scriptures says about Jesus Christ:

Phil. 2:6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, 7 made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross.

<<<Jesus was MADE God>>>

Consider this truth:

Isaiah 43:10 “You are My witnesses,” says the Lord, “And My servant whom I have chosen, That you may know and believe Me, And understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, Nor shall there be after Me.

Bad incarnationist modern version.

And so, is that it? I thought so.

Tong
R2242

 

[101G]

<<<he put an end of the transfer of sin. listen,>>>

The scriptures you quoted does not say that nor effectively say that.

Please consider:

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.

Tong
R2241

And! .... DEATH, by Sin,
Romans 5:12 "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:"

LIFE, by Jesus Christ,
Romans 5:15 "But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many."

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

PS, again Read Romans chapter 4 & 5.

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
<<<he put an end of the transfer of sin. listen,>>>

The scriptures you quoted does not say that nor effectively say that.

Please consider:

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.

And! .... DEATH, by Sin,
Romans 5:12 "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:"

LIFE, by Jesus Christ,
Romans 5:15 "But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many."

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

PS, again Read Romans chapter 4 & 5.

Rest assured, I have read Romans 4 & 5 again. And nothing there speak about the putting an end to transfer of sin.

Consider again:

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive,

What do you have to say about that?

Tong
R2243

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

If you are consistent with tour reasoning, that would make the Roman soldiers as the ones who crucified Christ and killed Him, not the Jews, rendering all scriptures that teaches that the Jews were the ones who crucified and killed Jesus, false.

Don’t agree with me. By all means, agree with scriptures.

Tong
R2236

Actually that's not consistent with my reasoning but if that's what you want to believe go for

 

[101G]

Consider again

well consider this, if you have read Romans chapter 4 & 5.. "do you believe in Jesus christ?". if so, there is your answer again.

if not then, then we're in disagreement. your choice.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
If you are consistent with tour reasoning, that would make the Roman soldiers as the ones who crucified Christ and killed Him, not the Jews, rendering all scriptures that teaches that the Jews were the ones who crucified and killed Jesus, false.

Don’t agree with me. By all means, agree with scriptures.

Actually that's not consistent with my reasoning but if that's what you want to believe go for

Let’s see your reasoning then.

Who do you say are they who nailed Jesus to the cross?

Who do you say are they who killed Jesus?

Tong
R2244

 

[Tong2020]

well consider this, if you have read Romans chapter 4 & 5.. "do you believe in Jesus christ?". if so, there is your answer again.

if not then, then we're in disagreement. your choice.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

You asked me to read Romans 4 & 5. I did and I did not read anything there that speaks of putting to an end the transfer of sin.

On your part, you are ask med a question, what you have to say of 1 Cor.15:22. And you seem to don’t want to respond to it. I wonder what’s holding you.

You ask, “do you believe in Jesus Christ?” Yes I do. Now, where in Romans 4&5 does it speak of putting an end to the transfer of sin?

Tong
R2245

 

[101G]

You asked me to read Romans 4 & 5. I did and I did not read anything there that speaks of putting to an end the transfer of sin.

On your part, you are ask med a question, what you have to say of 1 Cor.15:22. And you seem to don’t want to respond to it. I wonder what’s holding you.

You ask, “do you believe in Jesus Christ?” Yes I do. Now, where in Romans 4&5 does it speak of putting an end to the transfer of sin?

Tong
R2245

Romans 4 & 5 answers 1 Corinthians 15:22 "For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive."
LISTEN, Romans 8:3 "For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:" got that, not this, Romans 9:8 "That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed." understand NOW? so how are we made alive? answer, BY BELIEVING IN JESUS CHRIST, and God\s Faith in this Believing we're Given the Spirit of "PROMISE. meaning we are in, in, in, Jesus Christ, by his, his, Spirit. scripture, Acts 2:39 "For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call."
HOW ARE WE CALLED? let the bible TELL US, listen,

Romans 10:8 "But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;"
Romans 10:9 "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."
Romans 10:10 "For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation."
Romans 10:11 "For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed." (Joel 2:32, and Isaiah 28:16)
Romans 10:12 "For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him."
Romans 10:13 "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."
Romans 10:14 "How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?" (BINGO, THE GREAT COMMISSION IN A NUTSHELL).
Romans 10:15 "And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!"

NOW, Romans 10:13 "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." for they must "BELIEVE, ok,

Romans 4:3 "For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness."
Romans 4:4 "Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt."
Romans 4:5 "But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness."
Romans 4:6 "Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,"
Romans 4:7 "Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered."
Romans 4:8 "Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin."

WHY NOT IMPUTE, or TRANFER the SIN? BECAUSE HE "BELIEVE".

this is why I know that the Law is not for those who are in Christ, are righteousness of God in, in, in, Christ because they "BELIEVE". 1 Timothy 1:9 "Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,"

now back to Roman 4. Romans 4:11 "And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:" BINGO , there it is.... ALL WHO WILL BELIEVE.

maybe you read Romans 4 & 5 but did you understand it?

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[Truther]

Weird.

What is more weird is saying God became human, which is super weird thinking of God's human point of origin mating with Mary's egg in a microscopic form.

Can't you see God in flesh mating with Mary's egg?

Ick, right?

All I am saying is God made a sperm cell to mate with her egg cell in her ovaries, not God became the sperm cell which incarnationists must imply.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Oh sorry. Honestly, I forgot about that as I had me focused on the matter of how those who have not heard the gospel of Christ are saved.

Anyway, let me do so now. Here goes my view regarding election of God and free will of man. Using and starting with the same scriptures,

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.

That “in Adam” and “in Christ” speaks a lot. The former effectively says that all mankind, by simply being in Adam, when he disobeyed (sinned) God, were all made sinners as well. So that, all mankind, individually and personally, die without their will having anything to do with it. The latter, in like sense, effectively says that all those who are in Christ, by simply being in Him, when He obeyed (righteous act), will be made righteous. So that, all people who are in Christ, individually and personally, are made alive without their will having anything to do with it.

The question left now is who are those who are in Christ. They are those who were chosen by God and given to Jesus Christ, the second Adam, as also those who are in Adam, are those given by God to him, the first Adam. So, individual will still has nothing to do with that.

Tong
R2221

I agree with your "in Christ" 100% However your in Adam is wrong. all mankind was and is in Adam by default/nature. God gives none over to that. We are that naturally. It is god selection those "in adam" and placing them in Christ that is the key and you are right our will has nothing to dso with it.