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like I said you KNOW....... Nothing. the Spirit that came upon the Lord Jesus is his "OWN" Spirit. suppostive scripture, Isaiah 63:5 "And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me."
do I have to spell "OWN" for you?
PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
he spoke to the angels. Angels are also Gods, in Psalm they are called Elohim.
In Genesis it is written: And Elohim created the man....
The image of God means to be a god.
first thanks for the reply, but which (verse, or verses) are you referring to?
PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
Nope .. you are the king of false accusation as an avoidance tactic.. and calling you out as such is not a false accusation :)
You keep avoiding the scripture in question .. jumping around to other scripture rather than addressing the material in front of you.
and even so .. Isaiah supports my case .. not yours.. there was no Spirit of Jesus mentioned in the OT passage you site. It is the Spirit of the Lord .. as in God .. as in "The Father" ..same spirit who facilitated the meeting between Saul and the Spirit of Samuel.
Now get a grip .. and quite trying making scripture try to fit your unfounded perspective rather than let scripture mold your perspective.
Now you answer a question for a change .. as I have answered all of your questions - regardless of how silly.
Was the spirit that came over Jesus during his baptism the same as facilitated the meeting between the Spirit of Samuel and Saul ?
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(Heb 2:6-8) What is man that you should remember him, or the Son of Man that you should look upon him? You have humbled him a little lower than the angels; with glory and honor you have crowned him and set him above the works of your hands; you have subjected all things to his feet.
Paul did quote from:
(Ps 8:5-6) What is man that thou rememberest him, and the Son of Man that thou careest for him?
For thou hast humbled him a little lower than the angels; and with glory and splendor thou hast crowned him.
The hebrew word in Ps 8:5 for "angels" is Elohim, the same word in Genesis where it is written: And Elohim(God or Gods) created man....
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Angels are of course not God like the Almighty God but they are Gods in the sense that they are mighty. They were also created in the image of God but earlier.
thanks for the reply, but angels are not "God", and that's the "G" capitalized. and as for Lower that the angels, there are only three types of entilities, GOD, the angels, and us humans. and if Jesus was made lower than the angels, then he was above them.... correct. the term H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') n-m. אֱלֹהֵי 'elohiy (el-o-hee') [alternate plural] do not nessary means or imply "GOD", the almighty... ok. one can look at the definition below and determine that.
H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') n-m.
אֱלֹהֵי 'elohiy (el-o-hee') [alternate plural]
1. (literally) supreme ones.
2. (hence, in the ordinary sense) gods.
3. (specifically, in the plural, especially with the article) the Supreme God (i.e. the all supreme).
4. (sometimes) supreme, used as a superlative.
5. (occasionally, by way of deference) supreme magistrates, the highest magistrates of the land.
6. (also) the supreme angels (entities of unspecified type).
[plural of H433]
KJV: angels, X exceeding, God (gods)(-dess, -ly), X (very) great, judges, X mighty.
Root(s): H433
but as for Elohim(God or Gods) created man, no, it was only ONE, and not Gods, for Isaiah 44:6, Isaiah 44:8, Isaiah 45:5, and Isaiah 45:6 just straight out kills any notion of any "God(s)" for at Genesis 1:26 it was only ONE person, who is the ONE God who made Man and No, he was not talking with the angels.
PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
first thanks for the reply, second, do you have book chapter and verse that shows the angels was earlier, I guess you mean before Man?
if so book chapter and verse please.
PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
That is not scripturally True - and you know it .. and we know that Isaiah has a monotheistic perspective - which helps us not with other divinities.
Are angels not divine ? .. and what is the scale.. and to say there is nothing in between angels and humans is a falsehood - as you know better .. as per Deut 32:43 Where other divinities are mentioned in the same passage with angels - but on a higher tier.
O heavens, rejoice with Him, Bow to him all sons of the divine
O nations, rejoice with his people and let all angels of the divine Strengthen themselves in Him
For He’ll avenge the blood of His Son’s, Be vengeful, and wreak vengeance and recompense justice on his foes
Requite those who reject Him, and the Lord will Cleanse his peoples land.
These sons of the divine or literally "sons of God" are in a spot that is clearly in between humans and angels .. with angels being lower than humans .. so in the passage "Jesus was humbled lower than the Angels" - that is pretty low.
These "sons of God" are in between - mentioned numerous times .. divinities who are in no way equal to the Most High - who bow to the most High - and are subject to the Most high .. but these are higher than Angels and Humans on the divinity scale.
The powers of some of these divinities is described in Job .. and also in Genesis somewhat .. and in Psalm 82 .. at the Divine Congregation is present .. El is head of the Council/Congregation .. YHWH is prosecuting a case against the other "sons of God" - and YHWH vanquishes these other divinities .. who are clearly depicted as higher than humans and angels.
Why do you persist in this blindness to scripture ? Shall we read Psalm 82 - line by line - like we are in kindergarten .. but the Hebrew version translated directly to English -
6"I have said, Ye [are] gods; and all of you [are] children of the most High"
7"But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes"
8"Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations"
https://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/psa82.pdf
and with that YHWH inherits all the other nations of the earth - his portion being the people of Israel prior to this .. as per Deut 32:8 - all the other nations apportioned to the other sons of El .. but here we have YHWH defeating them all
Now you understand !
Actually no .. Angels are not ever called "Elohim" - and when you find that word substituted for Elohim - this is Pious Fraud.
There are numerous passages which detail divinities "Sons of God" on a higher plane than Angels .. such as in Deut 32:43
O heavens, rejoice with Him, Bow to him all sons of the divine
O nations, rejoice with his people and let all angels of the divine Strengthen themselves in Him
For He’ll avenge the blood of His Son’s, Be vengeful, and wreak vengeance and recompense justice on his foes
Requite those who reject Him, and the Lord will Cleanse his peoples land.
Angels are on a lower tier than humans .. The son's of God are rejoicing with God in heaven .. and bowing to the Most High.
Wrong - by a long shot - but do you have nothing but attempts to try to label and attack and demonize the messenger ?? .. rather than addressing the message.
But I OK .. I will play your game :)
"Let me Guess" - you are a religious right fundamentalist - likely Evangelical or Pentecostal or similar.
BARNEY BRIGHT
Well-Known Member
Dave L said:
Beginning with Genesis, we see a plurality of persons in the Godhead. [/Quote\]
At Genesis 1:1 the hebrew word translated to God in our language is 'Elo•him' it is the plural of 'eloh 'ah' (God). Sometimes this plural refers to a number of God's (Genesis 31:30, 32; 35:2), but more often is used as a plural of majesty, dignity, or excellence. This hebrew word, 'Elo•him' is used in the scriptures with reference to The True God Jehovah, to Angels, to idol God's(singular and plural) and to men.
I don't see 'Elo•him as being used as a Trinity in a godhead. This hebrew word 'Elo•him' when applying to The True God Jehovah is used as a plural of majesty, dignity, or excellence.(Genesis 1:1)
Aaron Ember wrote: “That the language of the Old Testament has entirely given up the idea of plurality in . . . [ʼElo·himʹ] (as applied to the God of Israel) is especially shown by the fact that it is almost invariably construed with a singular verbal predicate, and takes a singular adjectival attribute. . . . [ʼElo·himʹ] must rather be explained as an intensive plural, denoting greatness and majesty, being equal to The Great God.”—The American Journal of Semitic Languages and Literatures, Vol. XXI, 1905, p. 208.
The word ʼelo·himʹ is also used when referring to idol gods. Sometimes this plural form means simply “gods.” (Ex 12:12; 20:23) At other times it is the plural of excellence and only one god (or goddess) is referred to. However, these gods were clearly not trinities.—1Sa 5:7b (Dagon); 1Ki 11:5 (“goddess” Ashtoreth); Da 1:2b (Marduk).
Beginning with Genesis, we see a plurality of persons in the Godhead. [/Quote\]
At Genesis 1:1 the hebrew word translated to God in our language is 'Elo•him' it is the plural of 'eloh 'ah' (God). Sometimes this plural refers to a number of God's (Genesis 31:30, 32; 35:2), but more often is used as a plural of majesty, dignity, or excellence. This hebrew word, 'Elo•him' is used in the scriptures with reference to The True God Jehovah, to Angels, to idol God's(singular and plural) and to men.
I don't see 'Elo•him as being used as a Trinity in a godhead. This hebrew word 'Elo•him' when applying to The True God Jehovah is used as a plural of majesty, dignity, or excellence.(Genesis 1:1)
Aaron Ember wrote: “That the language of the Old Testament has entirely given up the idea of plurality in . . . [ʼElo·himʹ] (as applied to the God of Israel) is especially shown by the fact that it is almost invariably construed with a singular verbal predicate, and takes a singular adjectival attribute. . . . [ʼElo·himʹ] must rather be explained as an intensive plural, denoting greatness and majesty, being equal to The Great God.”—The American Journal of Semitic Languages and Literatures, Vol. XXI, 1905, p. 208.
The word ʼelo·himʹ is also used when referring to idol gods. Sometimes this plural form means simply “gods.” (Ex 12:12; 20:23) At other times it is the plural of excellence and only one god (or goddess) is referred to. However, these gods were clearly not trinities.—1Sa 5:7b (Dagon); 1Ki 11:5 (“goddess” Ashtoreth); Da 1:2b (Marduk).
That's all you have is an excuse, sound like a broken record. if you cannot produce scripture to support your view then as said sit on the sideline or on the porch and listen to the truth.
Oh yes verse 7 is TRUE... "But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes"
YIKES!.as I have said, if not scriptural support, facebook and tweeter for you...
next...
PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
Really? You support abortion? You chop up the Bible.
You are indeed playing a game.
I'm just a Bible believer. It's the Word of God!
Mark 7:10 (NKJV)
10 For Moses said, 'Honor your father and your mother'; and, 'He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.'
Matthew 15:4 (NKJV)
4 For God commanded, saying, 'Honor your father and your mother'; and, 'He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.'
first thanks for the reply.
to put this in Layman terms, JESUS who is one person is the First, and is with, and also the Last, meaning the Ordinal First and Last. which this one person is G243 allos, meaning, "Allos expresses a numerical difference and denotes another of the same sort"
simply put God is the diversity or the Equal "share" of himself in flesh. the plurality comes from his "sharing" himself in flesh. BINGO.
PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
That's all you have is an excuse, sound like a broken record. if you cannot produce scripture to support your view then as said sit on the sideline or on the porch and listen to the truth.
Oh yes verse 7 is TRUE... "But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes"
as I have said, if not scriptural support, facebook and tweeter for you...
next...
PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
OH ... so one of the statements in a paragraph - you cherry pick out .. in an effort to misrepresent the meaning of the passage.
And then accuse me of not producing scripture .. when what you are discussing - is that which I produced .. and - as usual are not running from
How about Verse 5 and 6 .. YHWH pronouncing to his adversaries - "Ye are Gods - Children of the Supreme one" .... and don't forget verse 1) where El By NAME - is stated as head of the Council .. in which YHWH is pleading his case...
So who are these Adversaries - such that YHWH has to bring them before the Supreme one ... the Most High .. the Council of El..
Ohh . they are mortals ... Not .. this is going on in heaven .. on High .. at the table in the mountain top Condo in which this God lives - and they are not angels either .. as neither is Rival to YHWH such that he would need to bring them before the council of El .. these other
sons of God.
How bout that part :) .. or the part in Job 1 .. where the boys are again hanging out with the chief .. .. and Satan is with them.. The Most High addresses Satan .. they have a conversation - make a wager .. Satan is depicted as the Tester of humans ..and the Advocate.. doing some select missions on behalf of the Chief .. not exceeding the Chiefs orders .. so clearly subordinate .. but certainly no Angel .. .. way higher ..
And this Divinity .. this so called son of God - has some rather god like powers .. just not that of the big chief. Angels don't have that kind of Power cept in hollywood :) these are godlike powers - what ever you wish to label it .. and a close association with The Father
The relationship between Satan and The Father in Job is very much like a Father Son narrative - as it should be.
Again we see divinities up with the The most High in Deut 32:43 called "sons of God" - "Sons of the Divine" - not "Angels"
And the separation between Angels and these other Divinities - "sons of God" is clearly demonstrated once again ..
O heavens, rejoice with Him, Bow to him all sons of the divine
O nations, rejoice with his people and let all angels of the divine Strengthen themselves in Him
For He’ll avenge the blood of His Son’s, Be vengeful, and wreak vengeance and recompense justice on his foes
Requite those who reject Him, and the Lord will Cleanse his peoples land.
Again we see these son's of God rejoicing with the Most High in the heavens .. and also bowing to the Most High.
The nations are on a lower tier .. and the angels lower yet.
So no Luke ... I'm afraid that these sons of God are .. "Sons of God" ..
OH ..and those divinities that came down and mated with humans .. "Sons of God" :) Genesis 6
OK ... so next lesson . what would you like it to be !
You are a fundi (literalism)- and yes .. you should not curse your father nor mother .. unless they deserve it of course :)
Another post of blind accusations - and zero substance .. a weak foundation have you.
The reason for this is due to blind adherence to man made dogma .. and on this basis is your approach to the Bible - trying to make the Bible fit into this dogma.
Now sometimes some things will fit .. but - the problem is that not all things will fit .. and from the literalist perspective - this can not be ..if one peg is removed from 100% word of God .. the whole structure falls.
and so you cherry pick the things that fit - and ignore that which does not. Most of the time - you can not even defend the stuff that does fit your perspective .. never mind the stuff that doesn't ..
This leads to support for evil atrocity .. what is know as "killing in the name of God" in Islamist Jihadist Circles - but that is much further down the sophisticated mind control chain.
When you start to walk and quack like a duck - - >> -->> you may be a bird of a feather .. just of a different color - and perhaps from another mother . . l l l :)
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