Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
I am glad God is not the father that make him out to be.. Imagine if a human parent did what they claim God would do. We would mock that parent as unloving
Fear God or Presume acceptance
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Eternally Grateful
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amen, Another issue, God knows all. We will NEVER surprise hi by anything we do. In fact, He knew all things BEFORE he saved us.
Correct. GOD said he was righteous because of his trust. That's the righteousness that is by faith. But it is not the same as Gods righteousness and holiness. AND, God is the judge, not men. So no man can make the pronouncement that he is righteous, he must leave that to God. So you read that God reckoned him as righteous because of his faith, but does that mean you are now able to say, I trust God too, therefore I am righteous? That's YOU making the judgement and that is not humility. So let God be your judge.
Mm...no. I wasn't saying it wasn't an answered prayer. I was saying that God did not manifest through you. You have to be IN the plane for that, which is different than being led by the Spirit.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
That has NO BEARING on ones salvation. or if they have had a miracle before
Jesus healed a mans child by simple prayer. even thought jesus was no where near. Was not that miracle manifest through Jesus?
I mean, many men are led by the Spirit. I am one of them. But Gods holiness has never been shown through me. He has not manifested through me as He did through Paul when ananias and sapphira dropped dead. I have never healed anyone.
I didnt say it had any bearing on living forever. Did you think I was saying that if God never manifests through you, you have no hope...?
Yes of course God is our judge. We are not to judge.
God declared Abraham to be righteous . . . because he believed God. Do you believe God? Do you believe God when He says that if you receive Jesus, believing in His name, that this gives you the right to be born again, and to be actually born of God?
Do you believe that when we are baptised into Christ we are baptised into His death and burial and resurrection? That we are made new?
You didn't answer my question.
Are you then spending your life simply trying to do the best you can to show God how deserving you are to be brought aboard? Or is there something else to it?
Much love!
Indeed! The law cannot make anyone righteous. Any more than flapping your arms can make you an airplane!
Much love!
Paul said something . . .
4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:
5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
Paul seemed to show a certain disdain for the righteousness that came through the Law, of which he wrote, inspired by the Holy Spirit, that he was blameless concerning.
Yet this was excrement to him. What he wanted was the righteousness of God that is by faith. Same as Abraham. Not through the keeping of the Law. Rather by faith.
Much love!
What do you base this on? What does that mean to you, "God manifest through you"?
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
I see the problem with the OT Law is that it DIDN'T touch the heart at all and wasn't meant to, because it COULDN'T. It could do nothing about the sin in their nature. You know that. Jesus took away our sin and made us dead to sin. So how can you say He was teaching them the Law? What He taught on the Mount they couldn't accomplish - yet.
I actually agree with you about one thing. (More than one, actually LOL ;) If professing to be a Christian, but still hated, they were not really a Christian. A true Christian doesn't hate, doesn't lust, doesn't covet. Those are sins of lawlessness, 1 John 3:4. And Jesus took those sins of lawlessness out of our nature by the Spirit. But what we don't agree on is the fruit of the Spirit has to develop and grow. What has to be pruned are trespasses, that you don't agree with me on. Maybe, because you push away the Sermon on the Mount and the Lord's Prayer thinking them to be of the LAW. John the Baptist came preaching repentance. That was making the way straight for the New Covenant and its Author, Jesus. The higher level laws of God is what Jesus taught and are accomplished in the born again Christian.
God merely started them out in kindergarten with the bottom line, the Ten Commandments, but only through being born again of the Spirit of Christ are they now graduated to a new level they could never achieve before - the eternal laws of God that the Ten Commandment were only based on at a surface level, but couldn't establish wholly.
Romans 3:
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.
The Sermon on the Mount was preached mainly to His disciples, and the crowd came to listen also.
Matthew 5:
1 And seeing the multitudes, He went up on a mountain, and when He was seated His disciples came to Him. 2 Then He opened His mouth and taught them, saying:...
You seem to believe Jesus was not speaking to His own believers, but only to those still under the law to teach them the LAW of His Father. Jesus taught what would be expected under the New Covenant, (His commandments) even before it could be accomplished. It was a foundation of knowledge. Not until after the resurrection did He blow the Holy Spirit into them. But for the past 1300 years, all that was expected of people was the bottom line to guard them, but couldn't make them truly righteous or holy. That is why all that was required of the OT saints was that they kept the bottom line and believed in the future Messiah. "because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins (of the nature) that were previously committed.
As for the Lord's Prayer that Jesus taught them at the end. Luke shows us that again, Jesus was speaking to His own disciples that were to follow Him, not the Law.
Luke 11:
Now it came to pass, as He was praying in a certain place, when He ceased, that one of His disciples said to Him, “Lord, teach us to pray, as John also taught his disciples.”
Matthew 6:
8 “Therefore do not be like them. For your Father knows the things you have need of before you ask Him. 9 In this manner, therefore, pray:
Our Father in heaven,
Hallowed be Your name.
10 Your kingdom come.
Your will be done
On earth as it is in heaven.
11 Give us this day our daily bread.
12 And forgive us our trespasses,
As we forgive those who trespass against us.
13 And do not lead us into temptation,
But deliver us from the evil one.
For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.
14 “For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
God chastens those who grieve the Spirit. There is something far worse than mere chastening that can happen to those who quench the Spirit.
30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
Yes, the Old Covenant laws were much easier to keep and be blameless according to those laws. But the eternal laws of the New Covenant ARE much harder, though with the indwelling Spirit that directs us and empowers us, they are even easier than the Old.
God who loves His children will "never leave or forsake us".
As in . . . never.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Amen
yet people want to profess obedience is how we get to heaven, that’s the same as flipping your arms,, you can never be good enough so stop working and give the yoke to, Jesus, and as he said he will give you rest
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
The words never, eternal seem to be foreign words to workers,, they symbolism them As we see in the Eucharist thread
How are you ever able to enter His rest when you believe it's on you to perform the obedience by which God will justify you?
What I cannot understand is this "dumbing down" of God's holiness as if our mixture of good and bad would be accepted. As if I do more good works than bad, then I'll be OK?
Nothing less than God's righteousness will do. We need to be like Paul, imitate him, and eschew "our own righteousness".
We do righteousness because we've been made righteous, not to become righteous.
Much love!
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