Fear God or Presume acceptance

[marks]

How do anyone know and are assured now if they don't know what they will do in the future?

There. That's the question! What about the future?

Because it is by Jesus' obedience and not our own that we are justified. Being justified is to be forgiven of all sin, and to be born again a new creature, that has no relation to sin, is dead to sin, and alive unto God.

We have been brought to life from among the rest of the dead ones. And it's because Jesus was obedient to the Father. So what does that say about our future? Does Jesus remain obedient?

10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

. . . as those who are alive from the dead, lit. from among the dead ones . . . Reckon yourselves dead to sin but alive to God, because that is what is true.

Yield yourselves unto God as those that were part of dead humanity, but now are alive, and are now free from sin.

Much love!

 

[CharismaticLady]

13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

Who does the yielding? We do. But what if during a time of testing that we all go through to grow, we don't yield ourselves to God, but get discouraged as Paul began to get with his thorn (false teachers he had to contend with against what he was preaching). Paul overcame it, and thus, was able to teach on it through experience.

Do you believe that you can step off the path to salvation and never come back? Or do you believe that is impossible?

 

[marks]

My answer is what we seem to disagree about. I want to know if we do agree, or don't.

I believe Matthew 6:14-15 which you seem to think no longer applies to us, if I'm not mistaken, because you don't agree as I do that both verses apply to us (from posts awhile back).

Matthew 6:14-15 is Jesus teaching those who are under the Law the requirements of the Law. We are dead to the law. Actually, as a gentile, I never was under the Law. Of course the law written in my heart instructed me that reconciling differences is good, though I didn't always do that.

Ephesians 4 is teaching us how we are to live as God's children.

The warning of not being forgiven by God if we do not forgive others is consistent with the Law, he who keeps it shall live by it. If you keep the Law you can live. And if you don't, you don't.

The admonition to forgive as we've been forgiven is towards those who are dead to the Law, having been justified, and are in fact forgiven, meaning that rather than, If you keep the Law you can live, now, the condemnation of failing to keep the law has been removed by forgiveness.

Now, rather than, if you obey you can live, now, it's, Jesus obeyed, so you can live.

Much love!

 

[CharismaticLady]

Matthew 6:14-15 is Jesus teaching those who are under the Law the requirements of the Law. We are dead to the law. Actually, as a gentile, I never was under the Law. Of course the law written in my heart instructed me that reconciling differences is good, though I didn't always do that.

No, Jesus was teaching HIS WORDS to HIS disciples. That is us too. Jesus did not teach keeping the law to anyone other than His debates with Pharisees. I know you don't believe this, but the Sermon on the Mount was His laws that would be written on the heart, the core of the issues - the New Covenant perfection through the Spirit. The Law of Moses was about the end result of the iniquity in the heart, but couldn't deal with the heart, so hate remained, even if they didn't murder.

 

[CharismaticLady]

@marks

Be back later, brother. Much love to you too!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

lol

What I hear is you judging me

Who made you judge?

Why would I judge you for praying for a very sick friend...?

 

[marks]

But what if during a time of testing that we all go through to grow, we don't yield ourselves to God,

Hebrews 12
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.

Peter explains it pretty good. The difficulties we endure prove who we are. By enduring through tribulations, we show we are the people of God. And by enduring through tribulations, we gain the experience that gives us our hope. And having the true hope causes us to live pure lives. His chastening is effective to His children.

Much love!

 

[CharismaticLady]

@marks

Just one thing. The Sermon on the Mount was declaring the commandments of Jesus, as redefined to the heart issue from His Father's surface flesh commandments. John 15:10 - see the difference?

 

[marks]

Who does the yielding? We do. But what if during a time of testing that we all go through to grow, we don't yield ourselves to God, but get discouraged as Paul began to get with his thorn (false teachers he had to contend with against what he was preaching). Paul overcame it, and thus, was able to teach on it through experience.

Do you believe that you can step off the path to salvation and never come back? Or do you believe that is impossible?

Born again is forever.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Hebrews 12
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.

Peter explains it pretty good. The difficulties we endure prove who we are. By enduring through tribulations, we show we are the people of God. And by enduring through tribulations, we gain the experience that gives us our hope. And having the true hope causes us to live pure lives. His chastening is effective to His children.

Much love!

We don't know what we'll do until the trials arrive to test us.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Born again is forever.

Can a born again go back to licking up his own vomit> A person who is born again, has God's Spirit. But what if you break Paul's command to not quench the SPIRIT?

 

[marks]

@marks

Just one thing. The Sermon on the Mount was declaring the commandments of Jesus, as redefined to the heart issue from His Father's surface flesh commandments. John 15:10 - see the difference?

Jesus was showing that even if they thought they were keeping the commandment by not lifting a hand against someone, in their hatred they were still guilty of murder. And though they never touched a woman, in their lust they were still guilty of adultery. This was the final coffin nail for those who thought they could be righteous by monitoring their behavior. No, the real issue is much deeper than that.

Keeping of Law was never going to work for the people. It's not about our behavior. It's about what race of humanity we are a part of. Children of Adam, or children of God? Children of Adam share the death promised to Adam. Children of God share the eternal life promised to Christ.

Much love!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Our justification is not based on our own obedience, instead it is based on Jesus' obedience.

So...when it says God counted Abraham as righteous because of his faith, that was based on Jesus' obedience of faith and not on Abraham's obedience of faith?

 

[marks]

So...when it says God counted Abraham as righteous because of his faith, that was based on Jesus' obedience of faith and not on Abraham's obedience of faith?

Abraham believed God, and God reckoned that to Abraham for righteousness. Abraham believed, and God justified him.

We are told:

Romans 6
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

"Jesus' obedience of faith", I'm not sure what you mean, but this is from the next chapter:

4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin. {Lit. Justified away from sin}
8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

This is through joining Him in His death.

Philippians 2:8 "And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross."

Much love!

 

[marks]

Can a born again go back to licking up his own vomit> A person who is born again, has God's Spirit. But what if you break Paul's command to not quench the SPIRIT?

God will chasten His childen.

 

[marks]

We don't know what we'll do until the trials arrive to test us.

So true! But God knows exactly what we will do, knowing exactly who we are.

 

[Episkopos]

I thought that is what he meant too. But he just wasn't very clear. He meant in order to come to Christ and be cleansed, not after. He agrees the children of God are obedient.

@marks

We can be obedient to God at different distances. I think Marks puts everything on the new birth as being all there is...not realizing that the new birth is into a much higher and harder race.

God is righteous. There are no free rides., To whom much is given MORE is required. So then whatever level we are on...we must be obedient to THAT level.

otherwise this next verse would have been impossible...

Luke 1:5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.


6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

Whether present or absent from the Lord we are to walk in a way that is pleasing to Him. God has billions of examples of what we can do both with Him and without Him. So we are to run to make the grade. We are in a race of faith. Run to win.

 

[marks]

I think Marks puts everything on the new birth as being all there is...

What would depend on what you mean of "all there is."

But we don't make ourselves "more justified" than we are in Christ, at least, not to God. Now, man cannot see the heart, and cannot see the new creation, but can see what we do. So we are justified before others when we do the works of God.

By One man's obedience the many are made righteous.

The new birth is a transfer from one tree to another. From one humanity to another. From death into life. From darkness into life. From condemnation into eternal life. From a nature of corruption to a nature of righteousness. These result from being justified by God, born from Him. And we don't add to that through obedience, even understanding that we were reborn to actually have this obedience.

So, yes, in that respect, justification and a new creation really are the solution to our problem of sin. But that's all there is? There is much much more. Only not that we add to what Jesus did on our behalf.

I cannot overstress, By One man's obedience the many are made righteous, that being Jesus' obedience unto death. Where He goes, we follow, but not to justify ourselves through our display of obedience.

Much love!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Why would I judge you for praying for a very sick friend...?

it sure sounded that way, As if it was not a miracle

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Jesus was showing that even if they thought they were keeping the commandment by not lifting a hand against someone, in their hatred they were still guilty of murder. And though they never touched a woman, in their lust they were still guilty of adultery. This was the final coffin nail for those who thought they could be righteous by monitoring their behavior. No, the real issue is much deeper than that.

Keeping of Law was never going to work for the people. It's not about our behavior. It's about what race of humanity we are a part of. Children of Adam, or children of God? Children of Adam share the death promised to Adam. Children of God share the eternal life promised to Christ.

Much love!

Amen, Jesus showed what Paul preached.. The law was never given as a means to help us become righteous people. It was not given for that purpose..