Rapture Ready For Partial Rapture?
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That's not how I read this:
21 Then this message came to me from the Lord: 2 “Son of man, turn and face Jerusalem and prophesy against Israel and her sanctuaries. 3 Tell her, ‘This is what the Lord says: I am your enemy, O Israel, and I am about to unsheath my sword to destroy your people—the righteous and the wicked alike. 4 Yes, I will cut off both the righteous and the wicked! I will draw my sword against everyone in the land from south to north.
I also don't go for that whole "oh that's only about Israel" stuff every time its something unpleasant.
If He cut off Israel, He can cut off the grafted in branches. I think it's frightening nonsense and stupendous pride to think we are now bulletproof.
Are you saying that's what I'm about?
Simple example . . . are we all building arks? No, because we recognize that God was talking to Noah. Do we gain from that part of the Bible? Of course we do. But are we to overlook who God Himself says He is talking to? I don't think so.
Your translation is different, and where the one reads "cut off" the other reads "destroy". So we need to look into these things to see which contains the best sense of the original.
Does God destroy the righteous with the wicked? What would Abraham answer?
I think your argument there is a bit simple and doesn't help to further anything. The entire law and the prophets were God talking to Israel, so I think it's insane to even read them if one thinks they aren't to us too, (except for the parts we like a lot of course.)
I don't think anyone is going to read the law and the prophets and fail to take note that God was speaking to Israel, so I don't really have a response because...it's a silly remark to me.
Keraz
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The faithful Christians being taken to a place of safety, is plainly stated; in Revelation 12:14.
The 'whisked to heaven' of the rapture, is not.
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The locust army are satan's angels ,that come with him(satan)when kicked out of Heaven.
They are the 7000 that die instantly at the return of Christ
Revelation 11:13 "And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven."
satan is the only one (named)that has already been judged to death,however his angels were judged to death as well,just not by name
Jude 6 "And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, He hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day."
The only habitation for any angel is heaven, and in defiance of God they left heaven and came to this earth. "Habitation" in the Greek tongue is "Oiketerion, oy-kay-tey-ree-on, a place of residence." Jude is reminding us that common, simple salvation is beautiful, and is the first step; however you must keep in mind all the other things that have happened because those thing will happen again. The coming of Satan and his fallen angels will happen again at the end of this earth age, and my friend you are living in the final generation.
Revelation 9:1 "And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit [pit of the abyss]."
The "star" that falls to the earth is the star of Isaiah 14. The star is "Lucifer", who will be the Antichrist once he arrives on earth. Satan is given the key, or authority to the bottomless pit, for this is where Satan's fallen angels are held.
Satan is to be God's executioner of God's divine wrath that is to be poured out upon the earth. God is going to give Satan the right to have his way with all who are blind to God's Word.
Remember, God removed the wall of protection around Job; for Satan. The only stipulation God gave Satan was that he was not allowed to take Job's life. Job had the will; Satan did the testing, and God allowed it. This is an example of what is to happen in these end times; and that is why we must be ready, and with our spiritual armor on.
Right now, today, Satan is not in that bottomless pit, but in heaven. He is the accuser of the saints before the throne of God. The fallen angels are in the pit, or the abyss. The pit is not a place, or location, but a point of degradation. It's a similar statement to Satan being told he would always crawl on his belly, as the serpent. No Satan never became a snake, but he was a deceiver and his actions were as that of a snake.
Revelation 9:2 "And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit."
This is the pit that holds every evil spirit that is on the earth and in God's confinement. This smoke comes from the pit, and it darkens, not eliminates the sun and air. When Jesus Christ returns the sun, moon and stars are eliminated. This darkening is talked about in Revelation 8:12, where one third of visibility is gone, at the sounding of the fourth trumpet.
This smoke is setting up the people of the earth for the supernatural things about to happen. Just like in Job's case, God will set limits how far Satan can go. What is important to us, as Christians; is that we be able to identify Satan, and his works, by what ever roll he plays, or name he choses for himself.
There are a few things to note: -
1. The woman is representative of Israel at the start of Rev 12 and the time span of this prophetic chapter spans a period of over three ages/A little longer than 3,000 years.
2. She is spirited into the wilderness, which is not the Land of Canaan.
3. Satan does not begin to go after the woman until he is released from the bottomless pit during the last 20-30 years of the Millennium Age.
4. The Great tribulation period does not happen until after Satan is released from the Bottomless pit which is after the first 1,000 years of the Millennium Age has pasted.
Your belief that you will be spirited into the Land of Canaan and protected during the last 20-30 years of the Millennium Age is a fantasy on your part, just like the Pre-trib people believe they too will be spirited away.
Yes people can pick verses and claim that they support their belief system but unless the translation in you particular case is accurately transmitting the same message content of the Original text source, then you are only barking up the same tree as the people you are criticizing in your posts.
Okay,the fire that you speak of is the consuming fire of the Holy Spirit ,so for you to say,God will not destroy the world with water but fire,is like me saying,I'm not gonna punch you in the face but I'll kick you in the face,don't make sense.
People are already being killed,in massive numbers from earthquakes and things,the real one happens at His return...Next ,the famine is not for bread but for the Word..
Zechariah 14:4 "And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south."
This will happen on "the day of the Lord". God will shake the earth and send fire and brimstone upon it. The earthquakes will flatten the cities to where not one stone will stand upon another. Those two great mountains will shake, and the mount of Olives will split. All prophecies concerning Christ return include Mount Zion, and the Mount of Olives will be fulfilled. This is where Christ's feet will touch the earth, when He returns.
Amos 8:11 "Behold, the days come, saith the Lord God, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the Lord:"
This is the famine Jesus spoke about in Mark 13:8. and in Matthew 24:7. It is not for food or drink, but for the "hearing of the word of the Lord". My friend, this famine is here and on us now. There is a famine now, for traditions and church social systems are what is taught and held in high esteem. A preacher committed to a denomination is allowed to teach only what is set under the banner of that denomination, and in most cases that teaching is far from the truths within the Word of God.
There is a spiritual war going on now in the world. Can you imagine going into a battle with only infants and babies still on the milk bottle? Sadly, most churchmen are as prepared to meet Antichrist as a one-year old would be to face a charging enemy. What are you taught in your church that would prepare you for that battle? You will face Satan and all his forces in this generation, and that is why you must have your spiritual armor on and in place, ready to do spiritual battle with the enemy. Do you even know what the enemy looks like, or what his weapons of spiritual destruction will be? This is why the famine coming on our land and throughout the entire world is so serious, for people will not be ready for the battle Satan will bring upon the earth.
Again the end times are all about deception......
Keraz
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I/ The 'woman' is Israel, representative of the twelve tribes. She gives birth to a man child, who can be no other than Jesus.
2/ His seed or offspring as per Rev 12:17, are His followers, the Christian peoples. The 'wilderness' is anywhere on earth OTHER THAN Canaan, or better put; the holy Land.
3/ Satan is thrown down to the earth at the mid point of the final 3 1/2 years before Jesus Returns. 1260 days or 42 months. Rev 13:5
4/ After the 1000 years of the Millennium reign of Jesus, Satan will be released for a little season. Revelation 20:7-10
My belief of the Christian peoples living in all of the holy Land is well supported by Bible prophecy.
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Keraz
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Does 2 Peter 3:7 make sense to you?
There is no mention of a earthquake when Jesus Returns. The big one is at the Sixth Seal.
That is how it is now. This is obvious here, with the weird and fanciful notions about the end times.
Right. The deceived are those who listen to false teachings and fail to ascertain the truth as the Bible tells us.
Yes 2 Peter 3:7 makes sense to me
II Peter 3:7 "But the heavens and the earth which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men."
This is in reference to the second heaven and earth age which we are living in now. This earth age will not be destroyed until God's time of judgment on the ungodly men of this earth has come to a close. That time of perdition [destruction] is after the Millennium age, and after the Great white throne judgment. Then will come the consuming fire. Hebrews 12:19 tells us that "Our God is a consuming fire." There will be no destroying of the earth by nuclear warfare, nor by greenhouse gasses or flood or any other man made causes. God is reserving the final judgment of this earth and mankind for His own judgment. Before that time can come, the events or prophecies that concern this earth will all have taken place, and that includes the "great apostasy", or falling away when the entire world will go whoring after Satan, the Antichrist.
II Peter 3:8 "But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day."
That means one week is 7,000 years, and we are coming to the Sabbath of that week very shortly, which the common name for the next thousand years is the "Millennium age".
II Peter 3:9 "The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."
This means that you can count on our Heavenly Father concerning His promises. God has much patience concerning His children. It isn't God's will that any soul should perish. God did not even intend for Satan to perish, as stated in Ezekiel 28, but that doesn't mean God will not bring about the perishing of souls; for it is up to the soul to choose. That is what our free will is all about.
II Peter 3:10 "But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up."
"A thief in the night" is an figure of speech that means that Christ shall come at an unexpected time. In the English it sounds like a very scary time, but lets see what it says in the original text. The "elements" are not the elements that you think of, such as gold, iron, oxygen and so on, but they are the "evil rudiments" that go to make up the evil in this earth age. This includes the evil spirits, the fallen angels, and all the things and forms of idolatry that cause flesh man to sin. The time of this burning will be at God's appointed time, so this verse is addressed to all those things that go to offend our Heavenly Father.
So you don't think Zechariah 14 is an earthquake?
The deception is satan pretending to be Christ
satan comes to this earth at 666,Christ returns at 777
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That is your private belief and opinion, but I beg to differ based on the manner in which you assume that you have an understanding of the ET prophecies which bears no resemblance to what is contained in the original texts of the respective passages. You have come to your understanding from poorly translated English translations by people who continued their error from their understanding of Gen 12:1 and even earlier.
That is why your understanding is the same as the Pre-tribbers and so off the mark that it is incredulous that your whisked away theory is so similar to the Pre-tribbers that it is impossible to see the difference between your respective theories.
Satan is thrown down to the earth around the time of the end of this present age/start of the Millennium Age. Christ does not return until the end of the Millennium Age, a 1,000 plus years after Satan in imprisoned in the Bottomless Pit. Not in the middle of the final 3.5 years before Christ's rule.
You have a mistaken view that you are presenting an acceptable understanding of the scriptures, but I would contend that the prophetic portions of the scriptures are still seal to you so that you have no ability to understand what the Et's hold.
Zechariah doesn't specifically say earthquake in 14:4 but it does sound like it would be an earthquake. Some of the prophets didn't specifically say earthquake in many places although what they were describing and its effects would be our equivalent of an earthquake. Just an observation.
I guess it's just the same silliness every time you would suggest or imply that I ignore things in the Bible that I don't like. That's nonsense, and I wish you'd get past it so we don't have to keep going round that circle.
I also don't go for that whole "oh that's only about Israel" stuff every time its something unpleasant.
Neither do I, so what's the point?
That passage was a prophecy for Israel regarding the destruction of the city and the captivity of the people. Whether or not you like it or I like it or whatever, that has no bearing on what the passage is intended by God to express.
It's not just that God was speaking to Israel, the prophecy was of Israel. Not a prophecy that God was going to destroy His spirit children.
We can play fast and loose as so many do, quoting a snippet here, and a snippet there, misquotes, out of context, to make it say whatever we want, or we can come to the Bible with an honest heart to receive what God says.
But I don't think we get to do both.
Much love!
Eternally Grateful
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In the passage of the word which speaks of Christ catching up (Latin rapture or raptures) those in christ,
He says all those in christ in the grave will be risen. And those alive will follow.
This can not be partial.
Your either born of God or you are not..
He says all those in christ in the grave will be risen. And those alive will follow.
This can not be partial.
Your either born of God or you are not..
Keraz
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I corrected you on four points in my post #191.
You now object to the scriptures that plainly state how all the faithful peoples will occupy all of the holy land, during the end times and of course; during the Millennium. You do this because the truth conflicts with your wrong beliefs.
The question of who will inhabit the holy Land in the period before the Return of Jesus, is made clear by the following Bible passages;
Daniel 7:25 He [the Anti-Christ] will wear down the holy ones of God. He will change the feasts and the religious laws. The Lord’s holy people will be delivered into his power for 3½ years. [Those people, who stay in Beulah: Isaiah 62:1-5, will experience the Tribulation. Daniel 11:32, Revelation 12:17]
Daniel 11:21-22....a despicable man, not recognized as a king, will come unexpectedly and seize the kingdom by intrigue. He will sweep all opposition before him and will kill a leader of the covenant people. [The leader of the One World Govt will conquer Beulah, inhabited by every faithful Christian, and will kill one of their leaders.]
Daniel 11:29-35 At the appointed time, he will again invade the South, but ships of Kittim will oppose him. As he retreats, he will vent his fury against the covenant people. He will reward those who forsake their covenant with God. Troops in his command will stop the regular offering and set up ‘the abomination that causes desolation’. With flattery, he will corrupt those who have violated the covenant, but the people who are faithful to their God, will be resolute and take action.
Wise leaders of the nation will guide the people, though for a time, they will be taken captive and killed. Some help will come, albeit; not entirely sincere. Those leaders may become victims, so that they may be refined and purified, ready for the end of the age. Daniel 12:3 The wise leaders, who have guided the people in the true path, will shine like stars, forever.
The Anti Christ invades some unidentified nations in Southern regions, but ships of Kittim [Cyprus – in the Mediterranean, but this is a metaphor for the Western nations] will stop him. He will then occupy the Holy Land, taking control and causing many of God’s people to obey him. Those who hold firm to their Covenant with God will be persecuted and some killed. This is in order to refine and purify them, ready for the Return of Jesus; 1260 days later.
Zechariah 14:1-2 A Day is coming for the Lord to act and the plunder taken from you will be shared out while you stand by. I shall gather all the nations to make war on Jerusalem, the city will be taken, the houses ransacked and the women raped. Half of the people will go into exile, but the rest will remain there. Daniel 9:27 &11:31-32
Verses 1 & 2 must refer to the midpoint of the 70th week. [7 year period] That commences the Great Tribulation, 7 Trumpets and 7 Bowls. Then: from verse 3, the description is of the Return of Jesus.
Revelation 13:5-10 The Beast, [Anti-Christ] was given permission to continue for 42 months. [3½ years] He blasphemed against God and waged war on God’s people and defeated them, he was given authority over the whole earth. You have ears, so hear!
Those who are destined for prison, will be imprisoned, those to be killed will be killed. This calls for the endurance and faithfulness of God’s people.
Revelation 12:13-14 The dragon [Satan: the Beast] is thrown down to earth. He pursues the Woman, [Israelites, Overcomers; the followers of Jesus] who gave birth to the male child. [Jesus] But she is given the wings of the mighty eagle, so that she could fly to a place in the wilderness, where she is looked after for 3½ years.
Ref. REB, NIV. Verses abridged.
In Zechariah 14:2 it says that half of the population will go into exile, this obviously is the Woman: faithful Christian Israelites, referred to in Revelation 12:6-17, where they will be kept safe until the Return.
Then, in Matthew 24:31 – they will be gathered back into the Land, along with those Gentiles who have refused the mark of the Beast, to live with Christ for 1000 years.
The other half of the population who remain in the Land, will suffer under the yoke of the Anti-Christ. They are the Lord’s Christian people, who have to face testing and refinement. Daniel 11:32-33, Revelation 14:12, 2 Esdras 13:47-50, Revelation 7:14....they have passed through the great ordeal.... It is these people who will say to Jesus: “Blessed is He who comes in the Name of the Lord”.
So, who are those living in the Land of Israel before and during the Tribulation?
They are the Lord’s people, all the true believers, mainly the Christian descendants of Jacob; all 12 tribes of Israel, gathered, in order to fulfil God’s promises to the Patriarchs, to be His witnesses and to be His Light to the nations. All of the Lord’s faithful Christian people will occupy all of the holy Land, from the Nile to the Euphrates, being the people that Gad always wanted there, but has never yet had.
It is quite evident, from Bible study, that the next prophesied event, the Sixth Seal, will cause a dramatic clearance of peoples from all the Middle East area. Jeremiah 10:18, Jeremiah 12:14, Zephaniah 1:14-18, Ezekiel 30:1-5, Amos 1 & Amos 2:1-5
In Ezekiel 20:34-38, we see the gathering of all the 12 tribes of Israel. The Lord will judge them and those who revolt and rebel will not enter the holy Land.
Then all His righteous people to emigrate there, as described in Isaiah 66:18b-21, Psalms 107, all faithful Christians, from every nation and language, to live there in peace and prosperity. Ezekiel 34:11-16, Isaiah 35:1-10, and Romans 9:24-26 says how the Christians become Sons of the Living God, in the very place that the ancient Israelites were rejected.
They will rebuild the Temple and reinstitute the Law and the ordinances. Zechariah 6:15, Ezekiel 43:1-12, Isaiah 56:1-8
All the rest of the world will be under a One World Government, initially ruled by 10 leaders, but soon to be taken over by another strong leader. He will rule until the Return of Jesus, when he will be chained up for the 1000 years.
Keraz
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When Jesus Returns in His power and glory, every eye will see Him.
The prophesies about Him 'coming as a thief', that is unexpectedly; all refer to the terrible Day of the Lords fiery wrath, the Sixth Seal event. A sudden and shocking world wide disaster by fire from the sun.
We should all know about it and be prepared to; Call upon His Name and He will protect us. Joel 2:32, Acts 2:21
I do agree with your explanation above. This Day will wipe out His enemies, Isaiah 66:15-17, and the world will be a different place. But evil will still be here, much is prophesied to happen before Jesus does Return and set up His Kingdom.
Maybe it is. But I have been on the Mount of Olives, it is quite steep. Perhaps it will be a landslide, anyway it will be just localized, whereas the Sixth Seal event describes mountains and islands moving worldwide. Revelation 6:14
No, you did not offer up the scriptures as they were written as a correction of my beliefs. What you offered up was your wrong understanding of what the referenced scriptures you listed meant, and then claimed that the scriptures, based on your wrong understanding of them was providing the correct you so desperately need to believe in.
God has said that He will plant the descendants of Abraham in the Soil of Israel. The question is who is the person of "Israel" that has the good and fertile soil for the descendants of Abraham to germinate in?
You like Israel have made the sign Promised Land of Genesis 15:17-21 your idol to worship, which was only given as a possession to Abraham's descendant for a defined finite period of time, which has now run its full course, as a sign that they will inherit the whole earth when the age of the ages has run its full course. You like the Israelites believe that this sign promised land of Genesis 15:17-21 was for an infinite period of time which has no end to it. Because of Israel's worship of idols, which also includes the Temple and the so called "Promised Land," Israel was visited by their iniquities upon the fathers' children and the children's children during the third and the four period of time, i.e. for a period of two ages, which is drawing to its prophesied ending. The tribulation of this present time is the time of Jacob's troubles, which is the forerunner for the redeeming of all of Israel in our near future. The tribulation that you are wanting to escape from is still in the distant future, over 1,000 years into our future.
Your understanding of "your escape from the events of the tribulation" is no different in its outcome to that of the Pre-tribber's understanding of their escape up to heaven. Your respective beliefs is that you will be whisked away to a safe place and that after the tribulation is over you will be rewarded with a kingship over the people to "lord "it over them as you continue your oppression of the people with your false doctrine.
That is the point that I am making, whether or not you or the pre-tribbers on this forum understand it or not. There is little to no difference between your escape theology from the tribulation than theirs.
But because of your supposed righteousness in understanding you cannot see the wood for the trees.
It is no wonder that you live in a place which is known to shake a lot.
Shalom
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