If Children come from Hell, how did they get there to begin with?

[VictoryinJesus]

Scripture teaches that Children come from Hell. That means you, I and everyone else came from there.

The question is...

How did we end up there in the first place?

Let's begin with a few relative verses in order for us to being solving this Mystery...

Matthew 23:15
"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves"

In the above verse, we see Jesus Himself claiming that Children come from Hell... literally.

On top of that, Jesus seems to indicate that the Proselyte is going to have this happen to them more than one time by the use of the word 'twofold'.

In other words, they will be birthed twice into this world. Is there a limit to how many times this can occur?

What about good people? Seems being born from Hell only happens to Pharisee and hypocrite type folk.

Lets see...

Psalms 139:15
"My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth"

Wait... is that King David saying that?

I think it's safe to assume that the 'Lowest Parts of the Earth' is a reference to Hell. So why would this David fellow be born from there?

The verse is literally teaching us that Hell is a parable for Womb!!! Is this misogyny against Women?

Let's keep digging...

The word 'Pit' can be viewed as another reference to Hell...

Revelation 11:7
"And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them"

But look at this...

Isaiah 51:1
"Hearken to me, ye that follow after righteousness, ye that seek the LORD: look unto the rock whence ye are hewn, and to the hole of the pit whence ye are digged"

The above verse clearly shows righteous people being birthed from the 'Pit'.

Who is the Pit? Sarah!

Isaiah 51:2
"Look unto Abraham your father, and unto Sarah that bare you: for I called him alone, and blessed him, and increased him"

No misogyny here. Sarah is a Virtuous Woman.

I suppose we now know where the Beast is going to come from. It will be birthed from the Pit... aka... the Womb!

OK, one more...

Now that we know the 'Lowest Parts of the Earth' is referring to the Womb, we can apply this Wisdom to the next verse...

Ephesians 4:9
"Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?"

We all know that the above verse is speaking of Jesus, but wait...

Aren't we all taught that Jesus went to Hell... as in a "place of eternal torments"?

Apparently not. Jesus descended into Mary's Womb... aka... the Lower Parts of the Earth...

John 3:13
"And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven"

John 6:38
"For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me"

Seems someone is hiding the simple Truth from you good people eh?

Could it be... Satan?

don’t know if this has been posted here yet.
Proverbs 27:20 Hell and destruction are never full; so the eyes of man are never satisfied.

Proverbs 18:20-21 A man's belly shall be satisfied with the fruit of his mouth; and with the increase of his lips shall he be filled. [21] Death and life are in the power of the tongue: and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof.

 

[OzSpen]

So are you or you commentators saying that the unregenerate are In dwelt with the Spirit of God?

From where did you gain that unbiblical notion? Where did I state anything like the unregenerate being indwelt by the Holy Spirit? Where?

 

[Base12]

Fascinating post you made Giuliano. So much to talk about.

It takes about 500 years to achieve spiritual perfection if you make no mistakes and do everything perfectly. Today the lifespan is about 70 years, so it takes about seven lives to do it, assuming all goes well.

I can't believe you wrote that!

I've meditated for a long time on whether or not this verse is stating that very notion...

Psalms 12:6
"The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times"

Amazing.

 

[Base12]

Here is another passages that strongly suggests at reincarnation.

Mark 10:28 Then Peter began to say unto him, Lo, we have left all, and have followed thee.
29 And Jesus answered and said, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my sake, and the gospel's,
30 But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.

Absolutely.

Add that to the list.

:cool:

 

[Base12]

Thanks Taken. I'm not sure if we are seeing the same thing, so I will post my position...

[7] And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

...Fact clue...
Dividing Firmament IS; Heaven.
[8] And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

What you posted above is describing the moment when the Third Dimension was created...

The 'Waters Below' were not oceans, as Earth didn't exist yet. Waters, in this context refers to Dimensional Barriers, thus...

Waters Below = Dimensions Below 3D (0D, 1D and 2D) sometimes referred to as the Abyss and Underworld.

Waters Above = Dimensions Above 3D (4D, 5D, 6D, etc.) sometimes referred to as the Sea of Glass.

...Fact clue...
Establishing DRY LAND...out of the water.
Gathering LAND to ONE place.
Gathering WATERS, calling them SEAS.
[9] And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
[10] And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas and God saw that it was good.

The above verses describe when the Earth was actually created.

As a side note, the Creation Story is describing a Virtual World not unlike a video game or Simulation.

 

[Base12]

It should read "heavens."

I believe the KJV has it correct in my humble opinion.

The reason Heaven should be singular is that only *one* of the Three Heavens were being created at the time. It was more or less a Two Dimensional Plane.

The Bible calls that 2D Plane 'The Deep' and 'The Abyss'. It is the Chaos that everything rose from. Sort of like Flatland, but with less logic...

Many translations get this wrong too. It actually says "the earth became without form and void." In other words, a prior world had fallen into disorder.

I tried for the longest time to make that theory work. My conclusion is that the phrase 'without form and void' is much more literal than most realize.

As I pointed out earlier, it means there was no 3D yet.

If we compare all of this to the below illustration, it would be:

Waters Above the Firmament = Sea of Glass/Higher Dimensional Barrier
Firmament of the Sky = Outer Space
Ocean = Face of the Deep/Lower Dimensional Barrier/Underworld/Abyss etc.

 

[Base12]

While we are on the Genesis topic, I would like to point out that the Three Heavens are not taught properly.

The Three Heavens are NOT:

1) Earth's Atmosphere
2) Outer Space
3) Where God lives

Nowhere in the Bible does it break it down like that.

The Bible actually describes the Three Heavens as:

1) Multiverse (Outside Our Dimension)
2) Macrocosm (Without)
3) Microcosm (Within)

This is the Third Heaven...

Luke 17:21
"Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you"

The KJV has it correct...

Luke 11:40
"Ye fools, did not he that made that which is without make that which is within also?"

 

[Base12]

Once One understands that the Third Heaven is the Kingdom of God Within, One can begin to put more of the puzzle pieces together.

The Microcosm of Human Anatomy, Cell Biology, DNA and even Atoms are described with precise detail in Scripture. This is done for a very specific purpose.

The Tabernacle in the Wilderness for example is a scale model of a Biological Cell...

The Book of Revelation describes Abraham's Bosom...

Ezekiel's Wheels describes how an Atom works...

The High Priest's Breastplate is a representation of the Standard Model of Particle Physics...

666 represents the Carbon Atom...

On and on it goes.

 

[Base12]

don’t know if this has been posted here yet.
Proverbs 27:20 Hell and destruction are never full; so the eyes of man are never satisfied.

Proverbs 18:20-21 A man's belly shall be satisfied with the fruit of his mouth; and with the increase of his lips shall he be filled. [21] Death and life are in the power of the tongue: and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof.

Notice the pattern...

Proverbs 30:15-16
"The horseleach hath two daughters, crying, Give, give. There are three things that are never satisfied, yea, four things say not, It is enough"

1) The grave; and the
2) barren womb; the
3) earth that is not filled with water; and the
4) fire that saith not, It is enough

Grave, Womb, Earth, Fire.

It's a subtle hint as to how they are all related.

;)

 

[Waiting on him]

From where did you gain that unbiblical notion? Where did I state anything like the unregenerate being indwelt by the Holy Spirit? Where?

There’s two kinds of people in this age in my opinion those that are in dwelt with the Spirit and those that are not those that are not are unregenerate.

This is just my opinion based on what I read.

It’s possible that we do read different bibles. My wife and I were at an adult bible study last night and what they were reading was similar but not like ours we read the KJV.

 

[Base12]

...Fact clues...
Light Established.
Gods POWER "upon" the face of the WATER.

The 'Light' in this verse...

Genesis 1:3
"And God said, Let there be light: and there was light"

Is expanded upon here...

John 1:5
"And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not"

And here...

John 8:12
"Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life"

 

[Base12]

James 3:5-6 Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth! [6] And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.

The typical Human mouth has thirty-two teeth. The tongue is the King that rules over them...

Revelation 12:4
"And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born"

 

[Giuliano]

Fascinating post you made Giuliano. So much to talk about.

I can't believe you wrote that!

I've meditated for a long time on whether or not this verse is stating that very notion...

Psalms 12:6
"The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times"

Amazing.

I am not sure -- there seems to be a parallel though, isn't there? Again I do have complete certainty -- but I tend to view the seven churches in Revelation as representing Christians in their seven incarnations.

Let me switch gears again to something else. This may also interest you. Why did God tell Abraham that his offspring would "sojourn" for so many years and wind up in bondage? Why did Israel behave as they did when liberated?

Maimonides (I think he's my source for this, it's been years since I read it) said that the adults who left Israel were not ready to enter the Land of Promise since they had a slavish mentality. You can see that in how they rebelled and said they wanted to return to Egypt with all its good things. You can see it in how they didn't want to hear the Voice of God for themselves but wanted to talk to God and then tell them what to do. So said Maimonides.

I thought about it and and became convinced it goes back making bricks at the Tower of Babel where men thought the way to get into Heaven was by becoming slaves and taking direction from a man at the top. The "bricks" also show that by how bricks are all the same and easy to build with. The souls of Israel needed to get this "making bricks" out of their systems. They voluntarily became slaves at Babel, but they still had that urge towards slavishness -- so their karma was, more or less, "Okay, you can make bricks until you get tired of it."

We ought not to think however that just because they failed in that lifetime, they were doomed eternally. That is foolishness when Paul tells us all Israel will be saved.

The message to Abraham also tells us something about the karma of some other tribes. God said the time wasn't right to drive them out of the land -- their iniquity was not yet full. It was predictable. "Children of hell" would be born to parents who had also been children of hell. They still had the chance to repent as individuals; and my guess is if some repented, they wouldn't get born into those tribes again. If they didn't repent, they'd keep getting worse and worse. When their iniquity was full, it would be time to take action by judging them.

There is another passage in the Torah that shows souls exist before being born in human bodies. At Sinai, humans with physical bodies took the vow, but others also took it.

Deuteronomy 29:14 Neither with you only do I make this covenant and this oath;
15 But with him that standeth here with us this day before the Lord our God, and also with him that is not here with us this day:

 

[Waiting on him]

The typical Human mouth has thirty-two teeth. The tongue is the King that rules over them...

Revelation 12:4
"And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born"

Most I read have enough tongue for ten rows of teeth.

 

[Taken]

Translations often get this wrong. It should read "heavens."

Disagree.

I would say, "HEAVEN(S)" is relative to ...
"A" World...
Differentiated from the World of "EARTH", which IS "Dry Land".

When we speak of Different parts of Earth, we reference the "LAND", as seen numerous times in Scripture.

When speaking of Heaven...there are Different parts of Heaven, we reference as "SKY"...atmosphere around the earth, breathable for humans...."SKY"...stars, planets, unvisited by humans....and Gods Throne...Highest Level, Occupied BY God.

Deut 10
[14] Behold, the heaven and the heaven of heavens is the LORD's thy God, the earth also, with all that therein is.

It actually says "the earth became without form and void."

In other words, a prior world had fallen into disorder. Genesis doesn't say so, but I would think it was because of the rebellion of the fallen angels.

Dismissing your other words.
Where is the original word "BECAME" ? And timeframe?

Thanks,
Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Thanks Taken. I'm not sure if we are seeing the same thing, so I will post my position...

What you posted above is describing the moment when the Third Dimension was created...

The 'Waters Below' were not oceans, as Earth didn't exist yet. Waters, in this context refers to Dimensional Barriers, thus...

I said the Deep is Water.

 

[Giuliano]

Disagree.

I'm not interested in continuing this conversation, sorry.

 

[Base12]

Hi Truther.

Do you know who Vesta is? She is the ancient Goddess of the Hearth.

It is said that she was rarely depicted in art due to the fact that her image was a bit naughty...

"The myths depicting Vesta and her priestesses were few, and were limited to tales of miraculous impregnation by a phallus appearing in the flames of the hearth—the manifestation of the goddess"

Vesta (mythology) - Wikipedia

Vesta is what the Bible refers to as the Eternal Flame and Everlasting Fire...

Matthew 25:41
“Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels"

Her Old Testament Hebrew name is Tophet...

Isaiah 30:33 (KJV)
"For Tophet was established of old, Yes, for the king it is prepared. He has made it deep and large; Its pyre is fire with much wood; The breath of the LORD, like a stream of brimstone, Kindles it"

Isaiah 30:33 (JPS Tanakh 1917)
"For a hearth is ordered of old; Yea, for the king it is prepared, Deep and large; The pile thereof is fire and much wood; The breath of the LORD, like a stream of brimstone, doth kindle it"

Tophet/Vesta is of course the Lake of Fire. She is a picture of the Moment of Conception as per the Wiki description above.

Silly hearsay.

I have another Witness...

The Golden Calf...

Moloch is an evolution Hathor, who the Israelites worshiped in the desert.

Topical Bible: Calf

If we study who Hathor is, we find she is a representation of the Womb.

HAT = Womb
HOR = Horus

Her depiction is a Uterus disguised as a cow head...

The reason... is that the Female Reproductive System looks like a cow head.

Thus, if we add all of this together we find that those tossed into the Lake of Fire pass *through* the fire of Vesta to Moloch, who represents Hathor, who represents the Womb of Reincarnation... aka... Mystery of Iniquity.

 

[Base12]

We ought not to think however that just because they failed in that lifetime, they were doomed eternally. That is foolishness when Paul tells us all Israel will be saved.

Just my opinion, but I believe everyone will be saved when all is said and done. The Universalists are almost there. They just need to take that final step towards the topic we are discussing.

Giuliano...

In your opinion, is the following verse speaking of Reincarnation or something else?

Hebrews 11:35
"Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection"

I notice it's only the Women receiving their dead... as if they will give birth to them.

 

[Truther]

I have another Witness...

The Golden Calf...

Moloch is an evolution Hathor, who the Israelites worshiped in the desert.

Topical Bible: Calf

If we study who Hathor is, we find she is a representation of the Womb.

HAT = Womb
HOR = Horus

Her depiction is a Uterus disguised as a cow head...

The reason... is that the Female Reproductive System looks like a cow head.

Thus, if we add all of this together we find that those tossed into the Lake of Fire pass *through* the fire of Vesta to Moloch, who represents Hathor, who represents the Womb of Reincarnation... aka... Mystery of Iniquity.

Where do you get all this information?