Has Jesus come in the spirit?

[Helen]

The rapture is the Latin word rapturo, translated from the Greek harpazo, it means to be caught up; and it refers to what is spoken of in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18. Which passage tells us that the lord shall descend from heaven with a trumpet blast, and a shout, with the voice of the archangel; and the dead in Christ shall rise first; then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up with them to meet the Lord in the air. And so shall we ever be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.

And...your point is...what? We all know all that. Yawn...

All you have done here is to trot out the same things...again.

And what do you do with Romans 8 19...my comment to SCOTT was "in passing"...it is not the subject under discussion...

 

[marks]

Hello waiting,
Indeed. The paschal mystery of Jesus' crucifixtion and resurrection trancends all time.
The CCC puts it this way:
"His Paschal mystery is a real event that occurred in our history, but it is unique: all other historical events happen once, and then they pass away, swallowed up in the past. the Paschal mystery of Christ, by contrast, cannot remain only in the past, because by his death he destroyed death, and all that Christ is - all that he did and suffered for all men - participates in the divine eternity, and so transcends all times while being made present in them all. the event of the Cross and Resurrection abides and draws everything toward life."

Peace be with you!

Do you mean to say that Christ continues to suffer in His Passion?

Much love!

 

[ScottA]

Are you in your spiritual body?

Scripture very much teaches that He shall return,in fact it speaks of both His advents

I can post some things but I won't,at least not right now,however please do a study of the two advents of Christ!!~!

The proper question would be: Have I been born of the spirit of God?; and the answer is, Yes.

The other possibility for you asking may better be asked, as: Aren't you still in your flesh body? In which case, the answer is, Yes. This the state of those whom Paul described as "alive but remain", meaning born of the spirit of God, but remaining in the flesh and in the world, where "to live is Christ."

As for the scriptures teaching that Jesus shall return...of course. But the scriptures do not say that He returns in the flesh, not at all. In fact, He made it clear, saying "I go to the Father" whom is spirit; then He committed only His spirit to the Father; "And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also."

But this subject refers to the coming of the Kingdom, of which He also gave when and where it should and should not be expected:

"But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, surely the kingdom of God has come upon you." Matthew 12:28

“The kingdom of God does not come with observation; nor will they say, ‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’ For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you.” Then He said to the disciples, “The days will come when you will desire to see one of the days of the Son of Man, and you will not see it. And they will say to you, ‘Look here!’ or ‘Look there!’ Do not go after them or follow them." Luke 17:20-23

 

[ScottA]

( and @amadeus )
Would you say that the next 'coming' will be Christ in us?

Rom 8 19 "For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. "

I know you are a rapturists , but I tend to believe that Rom 8.19 is His coming. For me that is the rapture.

Is that 'a bridge too far'...?

As I just posted above...this subject refers to the coming of the Kingdom, for which He gave the when and where it should and should not be expected:

"But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, surely the kingdom of God has come upon you." Matthew 12:28

“The kingdom of God does not come with observation; nor will they say, ‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’ For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you.” Then He said to the disciples, “The days will come when you will desire to see one of the days of the Son of Man, and you will not see it. And they will say to you, ‘Look here!’ or ‘Look there!’ Do not go after them or follow them." Luke 17:20-23

...So, yes, "Christ in us" is the second coming: "However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual." And being born of the spirit of God is the rapture; the passing from death to life, which quickening or awakening may come just as people awaken, some gently, some with a start, and some only after physical death.

 

[justbyfaith]

We all know all that. Yawn...

I should think that you knew that...but I wasn't going to be condescending and tell you that you should have known that, having been in the ministry...

You know it...but were you there attempting to promote an idea that was different?

I have said elsewhere on these boards that the Lord has called me to be a watchman...

 

[justbyfaith]

But the scriptures do not say that He returns in the flesh, not at all.

The scriptures teach us that He is in the flesh...so why, pray tell, would He morph into spirit en route to the earth?

 

[justbyfaith]

I should think that you knew that...but I wasn't going to be condescending and tell you that you should have known that, having been in the ministry...

You know it...but were you there attempting to promote an idea that was different?

I have said elsewhere on these boards that the Lord has called me to be a watchman...

Also...we who have been believers for many years often think that it is not possible that others wouldn't have the wealth of knowledge that the Lord has given to us...but I have found that there are people of different backgrounds anywhere you go...therefore, there may be someone watching who has never heard of the scripture on the rapture (specifically 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18); it may be news to them.

And likewise, anything that we repeat that we think is common knowledge, may be something that someone is hearing for the first time because we said it...and if we would have failed to say it, they may never hear that particular tidbit of information.

Someone ministered to me Ecclesiastes 11:6 once...and I never forgot the lesson. It applies to 2 Corinthians 9:6 quite nicely as Luke 8:11 applies to it.

And also, if the fulness of the gospel has already been fully preached, then the end can come right now...Matthew 24:14, Mark 13:10.

 

[justbyfaith]

All you have done here is to trot out the same things...again.

I would exhort you, dear sister, to beware lest what is spoken of in 2 Timothy 4:3-4 take hold of you.

It can happen when we begin to tire of hearing "the same old thing."

Nevertheless we are exhorted to a specific behaviour in Hebrews 3:13; a behaviour that can amount to the "incessant" preaching of sound doctrine to the people around us.

Nobody ever said that salt doesn't taste salty.

 

[amadeus]

very good John, what exactly was finished?

The work that Jesus was sent to do was finished. He had finished overcoming the world of temptation so that he could be the sacrifice he was meant to be. He had overcome all of those temptations in his own world of flesh [John 16:33] and He then went on to be the sacrifice which opened the Way so that each of us could also be an overcomer.

 

[amadeus]

( and @amadeus )
Would you say that the next 'coming' will be Christ in us?

Rom 8 19 "For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. "

I know you are a rapturists , but I tend to believe that Rom 8.19 is His coming. For me that is the rapture.

Is that 'a bridge too far'...?

I am NOT a rapturest per se. If there is an "early" gathering, it would likely be in the Bride as opposed to the Church. But the difference [Bride and Church/Body] if there is one God knows. Hopefully no one will want to pull that out of me now. I am truly tired, but it is the flesh that is tired and in pain. In the Lord, I am young and getting stronger, if you catch my drift. My sciatica continues its aggravating trial on me.

I don't study those things specifically which people argue so much on this and other forums concerning a 2nd Coming. Rather to me I see it as you say, "Christ in us". Sorting out the details when it is necessary is done by God. Sometimes He may open a point or two to me, but how much do we have to know before He shows us the face to face picture? No matter what some may say, it is NOT to be found simply through study. I study or read as I am directed by God. He opens up to me when He sees the need. I want to get to where what I think I
need equals exactly in every point what He says that I need.

 

[ScottA]

The scriptures teach us that He is in the flesh...so why, pray tell, would He morph into spirit en route to the earth?

No, the scriptures teach us that He has come in the flesh, and that He has and does enter into those who are alive and remain in the flesh (His body), but they do not teach us that He sits at the right hand of the Father in heaven in the flesh as you seem to believe.

Would you like to discuss a particular scripture passage?

 

[justbyfaith]

No, the scriptures teach us that He has come in the flesh, and that He has and does enter into those who are alive and remain in the flesh (His body), but they do not teach us that He sits at the right hand of the Father in heaven in the flesh as you seem to believe.

Would you like to discuss a particular scripture passage?

You simply deny that the kjv is the word of the Lord.

You know what the passages are...I have already referenced them, even in this thread...and they are a thorn in your side.

 

[ScottA]

You simply deny that the kjv is the word of the Lord.

You know what the passages are...I have already referenced them, even in this thread...and they are a thorn in your side.

That is a lie -- I never said any such thing!

Meanwhile, you are blowing smoke, unable to back what you claim.

 

[historyb]

Actually, Catholics have their own ideas about God; for they rely on the words of men (the church); while Protestants rely on the word of God (the Holy Bible).

Not at all Catholics, Orthodox, and other Traditional Christians go by Scripture when it says "The Church is the pillar and foundation of truth" whereas evangelicals go by themselves. There is no where in the Bible that it says to go by it alone

 

[Waiting on him]

Not at all Catholics, Orthodox, and other Traditional Christians go by Scripture when it says "The Church is the pillar and foundation of truth" whereas evangelicals go by themselves. There is no where in the Bible that it says to go by it alone

1 John 2:27 KJV
[27] But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.


Tecarta BibleHow do you reconcile this Bob?

 

[historyb]

1 John 2:27 KJV
[27] But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.


Tecarta BibleHow do you reconcile this Bob?

STOP CALLING ME BOB!

 

[justbyfaith]

You simply deny that the kjv is the word of the Lord.

You know what the passages are...I have already referenced them, even in this thread...and they are a thorn in your side.

That is a lie -- I never said any such thing!

Meanwhile, you are blowing smoke, unable to back what you claim.

So you confess that the kjv is the word of the Lord then?

 

[justbyfaith]

Not at all Catholics, Orthodox, and other Traditional Christians go by Scripture when it says "The Church is the pillar and foundation of truth" whereas evangelicals go by themselves. There is no where in the Bible that it says to go by it alone

That verse is speaking of the building where we go and worship...not because the church isn't the body of Christ...but because anywhere believers go to meet, the body of Christ is present in congregational form.

 

[historyb]

That verse is speaking of the building where we go and worship...not because the church isn't the body of Christ...but because anywhere believers go to meet, the body of Christ is present in congregational form.

Your funny. No wonder evangelicals are so lost

 

[Philip James]

Do you mean to say that Christ continues to suffer in His Passion?

Much love!

Hello marks,
Is that what it says? What does 'continue' mean in enternity?

I mean to say that Christ's passion, death and ressurection, the mystery of HIS paschal sacrifice is ever present in eternity and thus is also present in all times and in all places.

This is why scripture somewhere speaks of HIM 'slain before the founding of the world'
And elsewhere describes HIM as 'a Lamb who appeared as one who had been slain'...

Peace!

P.s hope you're feeling better.