If all of the Church is the Bride of Christ who are the guests?

[Hidden In Him]

Ok, thank you for your patience with me!

You, my friend, are easy. :) If everyone else in the body of Christ were as respectful we'd be in very great shape. You're a good example to others of the way Christians should behave towards one another and others, even to me, so keep up the good work : )

 

[Hidden In Him]

Ok, thank you for explaining your view to me on this.

For myself, what I understand from the Bible is that God is bringing us to unity in Him, and that we will not have rule over each other, in a 'lording over' sense or otherwise.

Much love!

Yes. There is an authority structure in the kingdom of God, even on earth. Only down here we have bad eyesight when it comes to recognizing who those with true spiritual authority actually are. We often go by whoever has the greatest following, or the most authority in a church etc., but we will find out in eternity that many of the ones with the greatest true authority in Christ were not that recognized in this life as such, even by the church.

And yes, we are indeed supposed to be entering into unity. But in any kingdom (or any army) there is still a line of authority. Only in the kingdom of God that authority is based on how much Christ Jesus Himself moves, acts and speaks through others, since He alone is our True Authority and no one is anything apart from Him.

 

[marks]

Yes. There is an authority structure in the kingdom of God, even on earth. Only down here we have bad eyesight when it comes to recognizing who those with true spiritual authority actually are. We often go by whoever has the greatest following, or the most authority in a church etc., but we will find out in eternity that many of the ones with the greatest true authority in Christ were not that recognized in this life as such, even by the church.

And yes, we are indeed supposed to be entering into unity. But in any kingdom (or any army) there is still a line of authority. Only in the kingdom of God that authority is based on how much Christ Jesus Himself moves, acts and speaks through others, since He alone is our True Authority and no one is anything apart from Him.

I see the line of authority as Jesus > me. There are also those whom God gave as elders and overseers - not just those who are self-proclaimed, or in that role, but not true, as you've said - and while God has told His people to submit ourselves to them, God hasn't given them authority over others, actually. Is there Scripture on this?

Just like the wife is to submit to the husband, but the husband is not given rule over the wife.

What does it mean to you for one of the church to have authority over another? What would that look like? How does it play out? Again, is there Scripture on this?

Much love!

 

[Hidden In Him]

I see the line of authority as Jesus > me. There are also those whom God gave as elders and overseers - not just those who are self-proclaimed, or in that role, but not true, as you've said - and while God has told His people to submit ourselves to them, God hasn't given them authority over others, actually. Is there Scripture on this?

Just like the wife is to submit to the husband, but the husband is not given rule over the wife.

What does it mean to you for one of the church to have authority over another? What would that look like? How does it play out? Again, is there Scripture on this?

Much love!

Well, you are now venturing into details the scriptures themselves don't lay out for us yet.

Question: Do you believe that modern visions given to believers during our time should be viewed as trustworthy sources of information, or no? My answer would depend on yours, and I can assure you that when Enoch reads this he will likely jump in and cry foul, since he's not a big believer in that sort of thing. But I'm not talking to him, I'm talking to you. Should I be sharing things along that line or what? I take no offense to your answer either way, but I'm not one to waste my breath or my time. I will simply leave you to believe as you wish : )

 

[Hidden In Him]

I see the line of authority as Jesus > me. There are also those whom God gave as elders and overseers - not just those who are self-proclaimed, or in that role, but not true, as you've said - and while God has told His people to submit ourselves to them, God hasn't given them authority over others, actually. Is there Scripture on this?

Just like the wife is to submit to the husband, but the husband is not given rule over the wife.

What does it mean to you for one of the church to have authority over another? What would that look like? How does it play out? Again, is there Scripture on this?

Much love!

I can at least share with you this: It will be a matter of governance. As Paul said to the Corinthians:

6 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unrighteous, and not before the saints? 2 Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world will be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters? 3 Do you not know that we shall judge angels? How much more, things that pertain to this life? 4 If then you have judgments concerning things pertaining to this life, do you appoint those who are least esteemed by the church to judge? 5 I say this to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you, not even one, who will be able to judge between his brethren? 6 But brother goes to law against brother, and that before unbelievers!

You see, many in modern times separate out the role of a king from the role of a judge, but in ancient times kings served as judges, and will do so again in the kingdom of God. There will still be disagreements. There will still be misunderstandings. There will still be the need for wise counsel. So there will still need to be those in authority they can go to. If everyone had to go to Jesus alone for every little disagreement in the coming kingdom, He would never do anything but judge from now until forever, kingdom without end, LoL.

I can promise you He already has a plan in place to make sure that doesn't become the case.

 

[marks]

Well, you are now venturing into details the scriptures themselves don't lay out for us yet.

Question: Do you believe that modern visions given to believers during our time should be viewed as trustworthy sources of information, or no? My answer would depend on yours, and I can assure you that when Enoch reads this he will likely jump in and cry foul, since he's not a big believer in that sort of thing. But I'm not talking to him, I'm talking to you. Should I be sharing things along that line or what? I take no offense to your answer either way, but I'm not one to waste my breath or my time. I will simply leave you to believe as you wish : )

How will we know the word that has been spoken?

Scripture tells us to let the prophet speak, and let the others judge, or discern. How are we to do that?

Much love!

 

[marks]

I will simply leave you to believe as you wish : )

Isn't it better, if we join together, to reach a unity in faith, and in the knowledge of Jesus?

Much love!

 

[marks]

There will still be disagreements. There will still be misunderstandings.

Within the church? In the eternal state, if you will? Interesting point of view!

I think we will be one, even as Jesus and the Father are One.

Much love!

 

[Hidden In Him]

How will we know the word that has been spoken?

Scripture tells us to let the prophet speak, and let the others judge, or discern. How are we to do that?

Much love!

You're talking about a congregation of believers judging over an utterance that is pronounced in real time. When it comes to modern visions, it becomes a matter of those who recognize the Shepherd's voice verses those who do not.

Isn't it better, if we join together, to reach a unity in faith, and in the knowledge of Jesus?

Much love!

Depends. It isn't better for there to be strife among the brethren in the name of "seeking unity." In such cases, James commanded the church to be slow to speak, and thereby slow to anger.

I think we will be one, even as Jesus and the Father are One.

What this expression actually means from a scriptural perspective would be a very involved discussion. I'll have to pass for now, but not a problem in my book. I'm at peace with letting things rest.

God bless, and thanks for the good discussion!
Hidden

 

[marks]

You're talking about a congregation of believers judging over an utterance that is pronounced in real time. When it comes to modern visions, it becomes a matter of those who recognize the Shepherd's voice verses those who do not.

OK, I suspected this would be the answer, having had this discussion with others. It seems to be that either you just know, or you just don't, and that will be reflective of the spirit in you, or in your maturity, or in your willingness to submit to the apostles, or that you're not really saved, not trying to say anything here, only that I've heard this doctrine expressed in a number of different forms.

It seems to me then that one must say, "I'm telling truth, and either you know it, or you don't", and to those who don't have that testimony, then what? This leads in many divisive directions, most unfortunately!

Depends. It isn't better for there to be strife among the brethren in the name of "seeking unity." In such cases, James commanded the church to be slow to speak, and thereby slow to anger.

Of course I'm not talking about strife! There is a reason I like to constantly promote love for each other. Not only is this how we'll be known that we actually are His disciples, not only is this how we will have confidence before God, not only is this how we will have fruitfulness in our lives, but it's a really really great way to live.

We will be one, even as Jesus and the Father are One . . .

What this expression actually means from a scriptural perspective would be a very involved discussion. I'll have to pass for now, but not a problem in my book. I'm at peace with letting things rest.

God bless, and thanks for the good discussion!
Hidden

Deeply involved, yes, while at the same time, as is I think all truth, able to be simply expressed, even as Jesus very simply expressed it.

"Moses" model notwithstanting.

And thank you, very pleasant!

Much love!

 

[Hidden In Him]

OK, I suspected this would be the answer, having had this discussion with others. It seems to be that either you just know, or you just don't, and that will be reflective of the spirit in you, or in your maturity, or in your willingness to submit to the apostles, or that you're not really saved, not trying to say anything here, only that I've heard this doctrine expressed in a number of different forms.

It seems to me then that one must say, "I'm telling truth, and either you know it, or you don't", and to those who don't have that testimony, then what? This leads in many divisive directions, most unfortunately!

Divisive? I was checking to see if you had ears to hear before proceeding. You expressed no interest, so I was trying to move on, LoL.

Of course I'm not talking about strife!

You may find over time that it is sometimes best to leave things on the shelf for awhile. When something cannot be sown in peace, it is better to wait than try and force it on someone who is not ready to receive it.

Deeply involved, yes, while at the same time, as is I think all truth, able to be simply expressed, even as Jesus very simply expressed it.

Even responding to that would be a lengthy discussion, LoL.

 

[marks]

Divisive? I was checking to see if you had ears to hear before proceeding. You expressed no interest, so I was trying to move on, LoL.

I had hoped my participation in the conversation was expressing my interest.

You may find over time that it is sometimes best to leave things on the shelf for awhile. When something cannot be sown in peace, it is better to wait than try and force it on someone who is not ready to receive it.

Yes, this is true. I have indeed found this to be true.

Philippians 3:15 "Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you."

Much love!
Mark

 

[Hidden In Him]

I had hoped my participation in the conversation was expressing my interest.

Well yes, only when it comes to discussing something like that most people on the forums will balk at it, so I tend to be cautious and test my footing first. It's really not a big deal, though. Just that something crossed my mind from one of them is all.

Yes, this is true. I have indeed found this to be true.

Philippians 3:15 "Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you."

Excellent verse!

 

[marks]

Well yes, only when it comes to discussing something like that most people on the forums will balk at it, so I tend to be cautious and test my footing first. It's really not a big deal, though. Just that something crossed my mind from one of them is all.

Hi Hidden In Him,

No worries, I think I understand.

Much love!

 

[Taken]

If all of the Church is the Bride of Christ who are the guests?

Bride of Christ;
...Those crucified with Christ.
...ie. Christ's Church.

Guests;
...OT men who Believed in God.
...ie. OT Saints.

Those NOT INVITED;
...Men who Rejected God, Rejected Jesus

Those Ejected (trying to enter as a guest);
...Israel (Tribes) Who Believed IN God, and Rejected Jesus.
...How are they "recognized"?
Their "attire", will not have been Washed White in the Blood of Jesus.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Enoch111]

Guests;...OT men who Believed in God. ...ie. OT Saints.

There are many who believe this, but I do not think it is true.

(1) Abraham was given a vision of the New Jerusalem (Heb 11), (2) Christ took all the OT saints from Sheol/Hades to the New Jerusalem (Eph 4) , where they have become "the spirits of just men made perfect" (Heb 12), (3) all the OT saints are associated with the NT saints in Hebrews 11 & 12, and (c) Christ will bring the souls and spirits of all the saints from Heaven to receive immortal glorified bodies at the Resurrection Rapture (1 Thess 4).

Since salvation by grace through faith applies to both the OT and NT saints, it would mean that they are all within the Body of Christ. Therefore they are all a part of the Bride of Christ. It is also most significant that in Revelation 19 (the Marriage and the Marriage Supper of the Lamb) THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO MENTION OF GUESTS. All the saints are th Bride of Christ who becomes the Wife of the Lamb.The guests are mentioned in a parable, but not in the actual Marriage.

 

[Earburner]

I don't know where it is but it was Paul who said it, that he was taken to the 3rd heaven. You could Google it And find the verse. And also, in the beginning, God created the heavens (plural).

It wasn't Paul who was taken up to the 3rd heaven, but rather that he knew of such a man who made that claim.
2 Cor. 12
[2] I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
[3] And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;)
[4] How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.
[5] Of such an one will I glory: yet of myself I will not glory, but in mine infirmities.
> Paul was not endorsing the man's claim, as being real or false. He was only reiterating what the man claimed that he saw and heard.
.
Paul even states that he himself didn't know whether the man's experience was of God or it wasn't. "And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth"
.
IOW's, Paul didn't judge the reality of the man's experience, but left it to God, by saying "God knoweth".
.
Now notice what Paul said: "[1] It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord. Of such an one will I glory: yet of myself I will not glory, but in mine infirmities."
IOWs, Paul could praise God for the man's vision or experience being shared to him, but in himself, he remained content in the Lord, in dealing with his own infirmities (weaknesses).
In what ever state Paul was in, he was fine with that.
.
Therefore, his conclusion was: "For though I would desire to glory, I shall not be a fool; for I will say the truth: but now I forbear, lest any man should think of me above that which he seeth me to be, or that he heareth of me."

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I believe Paul was speaking of himself. :)

Teresa of Avila used to do the same thing when talking about an experience of her own.

I think John did too. I think he was like, my name doesnt matter. I don't matter. The greatest name I could be called is: the one Jesus loved.

Just my opinion. :)

 

[Earburner]

(1) Abraham was given a vision of the New Jerusalem (Heb 11), (2) Christ took all the OT saints from Sheol/Hades to the New Jerusalem (Eph 4) , where they have become "the spirits of just men made perfect" (Heb 12), (3) all the OT saints are associated with the NT saints in Hebrews 11 & 12, and (c) Christ will bring the souls and spirits of all the saints from Heaven to receive immortal glorified bodies at the Resurrection Rapture (1 Thess 4).

This can also be seen and known of in Rev. 6
[9] And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
[10] And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
[11] And *white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

*Note: a "white robe" is symbolic of the Gift of the Holy Spirit. On the Day of Pentecost, all the OT Saints, who died in faith of the Promise of Messiah to come, were Given that Promise, the Gift of God's Eternal life.
Prior to the shed Blood of Jesus, the Holy Spirit of God could not dwell within anyone permanently.

 

[amadeus]

I believe Paul was speaking of himself. :)

Teresa of Avila used to do the same thing when talking about an experience of her own.

I think John did too. I think he was like, my name doesnt matter. I don't matter. The greatest name I could be called is: the one Jesus loved.

Just my opinion. :)

I agree!