Proof of the Trinity. No takers?
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Only God can convert lost souls. But at the same time he sends false prophets to deceive those who do not receive a love for the truth. So I compare everything a person says with scripture to see if it adds up.
But you show a lack of what many call basic Christian knowledge.My ability to "TEACH?" no, I just repeats ...... or as the bibls say,
1 Timothy 4:6 "If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained".
Dave, I know that it's a schock to you to have your security blanket taken away. what you're missing is solid food. listen,
Hebrews 5:12 "For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
Hebrews 5:13 "For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
Hebrews 5:14 "But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
I was reluctant to respond to your last post you directed to me as I've seen some of your replies to others as well as myself. They are quite far out there.
Anyway, I've decided to reply here. I'm glad you are paying attention. Yes 'incarnation' and not re-incarnation was intended for that Matthew verse in question. The point still does not change anything however. No one can suddenly translate Emmanuel as the incarnation of God or Jesus as a human being. It just cannot be done and especially with the surrounding context.
Now you are a cherry-picker of scripture whether you want to admit it or not as many others, and I have not seen in your words any depth of explanation for them as you just chuck then out there, then run off.
So, I would like you to explain to me what exactly does Mich 5:2 mean to you as you have just chucked that one out and expect folks like me to believe you that Jesus pre-existed before his birth. I want you to explain each major word or words/expressions in the verse for me that will let me know you really know what you are talking about. I believe you want to have an honest and open exchange, right?
And then why you are at it, why did you write Mark 12:29, I Corinth 12:3 and Eph 4:5 in your response to me? What do you really want me to do with them?
When I read them I do understand them all. Do you? Do you want me to explain them to you or what? I will be happy to if that's your intention.
Bless you,
APAK
Please let me know of this verse(s) in scripture and why break down and explain these verse to me? Yes I challenge you to explain what you have said in your post to me, seriously.
APAK
Again;
“Now I desire to remind you (even though you have been fully informed of these facts once for all) that Jesus, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, later destroyed those who did not believe.” (Jude 5) (NET)
“Now I want to remind you, although you once fully knew it, that Jesus, who saved a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe.” (Jude 5) (ESV)
“So I want to remind you, though you already know these things, that Jesus first rescued the nation of Israel from Egypt, but later he destroyed those who did not remain faithful.” (Jude 5) (NLT)
They base these translations on the oldest manuscripts. They correspond to the KJV and others if you study the use of "kurios" = Lord in the LXX. And then read the NT accordingly.
GINOLJC, to all
as said I'll take your response one point at a time.
#1. you said, "I see you just have restated Matthew 1:23 once more and saying 'God is with us.' And your point is; that this phrase means that God was reincarnated into Jesus from this single phrase - interesting"
First don't try to put words in my mouth. second, Matthews 1:23 clearly states God is with us. and third, the reason why I say that, it's because God himself manifested in flesh, that's how he's "WITH US". he was not reincarnated into anyone, (that's false doctrine), as I said, don't try to push a falsehood off on me... ok. I'm following scripture.
#2. you said, "And you then add in John 1:3 and Isaiah 44:24 as extra support I guess. What am I meant to do with this, agree with you? Why do I have to reconcile John 1:3 and Isiah 44:24 to your way of surface thinking. I do not believe as you do".
first, I didn't add John 1:3 and Isaiah 44:24 as extra support, it's FACT. second, I can care less if you agree with me or not, but agree with the scriptures, that's what you do with them..... (smile).
third, again I have no way of thing except by the Scriptures, so yes, reconcile John 1:3 and Isiah 44:24 to the facts of the bible and see if what you believe lines up with the scriptures.... that's the TRUE way to "think"
fourth, I have not made any belief system, so why even ask that you should believe me, for what? believe God Word.
WISDOM are words which are Spirit, and the Word is Spirit, and Jesus is the Word/Wisdom of God, scripture,
1 Corinthians 1:24 "But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God". and "of" translates the genitive case of nouns, meaning the Wisdom of God is God himself.
and one other thing "apak" listen real good, 1 Corinthians 12:7 "But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal". (do you know who's the "MANIFESTATION" of the Spirit is? JESUS CHRIST...
1 Corinthians 12:8 "For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit".
see "apak" the WORD of God is "WISDOM". my God how men are so igo????.
ok, is the mind abstract? yes, so is God, who is spirit. here is your ERROR, Jesus is the MIND of God. 1 Corinthians 1:24 "But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God". wisdom is the mind, and that mind MANIFESTED, WHICH IS GOD.
Just one more because this is .....
#1. you said, "Yes indeed there is one God only and one Jesus Christ and their spirits are uniquely different as mine and yours are also".
That's a false Statement, and here's why. Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God".
God is a Spirit, he don't have a Spirit. the Spirit "OF" God is God. just as the spirit of 101G is 101G. :cool: you been duped, deceive, trick, by the evil one, or as Malcolm X would say, "hoodwink".... LOL.
no tell us "apak" and I'm going to ask you point blank, this will determine if you're are true or not, "is the Spirit of God, God?" yes or no
I'll be looking for that ANSWER.
Well I do see more of your view now although I do not agree with it as a whole. Without responding to it all, I will let it be, as they say. Although, I would have you check out a very important verse that needs your attention and others if they are interested in scripture. And maybe you won't be so strict on its translation in the future and my version most probably is correct. It is Philippians 2:6.
Now if you are willing you can find all this info say on the internet or in other books.
I guess I will have to protract this study a bit...like I doing a bit of Bible study here. In order to explain myself more clearly I will have to extend the verse capture for context and understanding. So Phil 2:5 - 2 :11 should do it. It's funny how I end up having to explain myself while other do not. Anyway....
(Php 2:5) Have this mind in you, which was also in Christ Jesus.
(Php 2:6) Who, though being in the mental image of God, did not consider grasping at being equal with God,
(Php 2:7) but poured himself out, taking the mental attitude of a servant, and was the made just the same as all ordinary men.
(Php 2:8) And being perceived as a normal man, he humbled himself, becoming obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
(Php 2:9) Wherefore God highly exalted him, and gave to him the name which is above every name-
(Php 2:10) that in the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the earth,
(Php 2:11) and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
(Php 2:5) Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
(Php 2:6) Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
(Php 2:7) But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
(Php 2:8) And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
(Php 2:9) Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
(Php 2:10) That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
(Php 2:11) And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
I listed both the NEV and the KJV just in case there is a whine if I just stated one and not another popular oen, as being biased or something....
When first let's examine the context.
Verse 5- It is desired that a believer obtain the mind of God as Jesus did. Jesus had the mind of his Father, He was born with it, although not God himself. His mind functioned as his Father, and therefore could actually hear his Father's voice and expressions etc (his word) in his head. Straight forward right? Jesus yielded his will or spirit to God's will (verses 7 and 8). Because Jesus was obedient to his death on the cross his Father exalted him above all, except himself of course. Jesus became the Christ, the Lord or Master that glorified his Father.
Verse 6- Since this is the main verse in question I listed some various translations below. about 30% of the translations of it have the expression that you included ("thought it not robbery to be equal with God") in trying to correct my response on it. And another 60% or so have it my way form. And there is a good reason for it.
Jesus was created in the form (nothing to do with intrinsic nature, essence or internal attribute of God himself), better translation as outward appearance or mental disposition as the image of God.
Now as the verse states, Jesus humbled himself, became a servant etc....the phase "thought it not robbery to be equal with God" really does not make any sense at all, or portray my Christ.
Say if you worked for boss and he provided you with all the gains and profits and credit for his work and you knew you did not do any of it and you were a very humble and grateful to him and would die for him, would you then say to yourself, I can take credit for all this work it its no robbery to do so. Of course not! The thought would never enter your mind. That would be deceitful. The same with Jesus, he would NEVER think to grasp the credit or be on equal footing with his Father. Jesus would then not be sinless with that thought. I believe it is a deceitful translation to say that Jesus considered being equal status as his Father as OK!! No, the translation(s) of "counted not the being on an equality with God a thing to be grasped", "did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped" or "He did not think His being on an equality with God a thing to be selfishly grasped"..etc as in other translations are correct and true.
Jesus NEVER thought to grasp equality with the Father, period. That would not be my Lord and Saviour. It that yours?
Bless you,
APAK
Here's the list:
Here's the list of some translations of Verse 6.... @101G
(ABP+) whoG3739 [2inG1722 3 the appearanceG3444 4of GodG2316 1existing],G5224 [2notG3756 3a seizureG725 1esteemed it]G2233 G3588 to beG1510.1 equalG2470 with God;G2316
(ASV) who, existing in the form of God, counted not the being on an equality with God a thing to be grasped,
(BBE) To whom, though himself in the form of God, it did not seem that to take for oneself was to be like God;
(Bishops) Who beyng in the fourme of God, thought it not robbery to be equall with God.
(CEV) Christ was truly God. But he did not try to remain equal with God.
(Darby) who, subsisting in the form of God, did not esteem it an object of rapine to be on an equality with God;
(DRB) Who being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
(EMTV) who, existing in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God,
(ERV) He was like God in every way, but he did not think that his being equal with God was something to use for his own benefit.
(ESV) who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,
(ESV+) R16who, though he was in R17the form of God, did not count equality with God R18a thing to be grasped,N1
(Geneva) Who being in ye forme of God, thought it no robberie to be equall with God:
(GNB) He always had the nature of God, but he did not think that by force he should try to remain equal with God.
(Greek NT TR) ος εν μορφη θεου υπαρχων ουχ αρπαγμον ηγησατο το ειναι ισα θεω
(Greek NT TR+) οςG3739 R-NSM ενG1722 PREP μορφηG3444 N-DSF θεουG2316 N-GSM υπαρχωνG5225 V-PAP-NSM ουχG3756 PRT-N αρπαγμονG725 N-ASM ηγησατοG2233 V-ADI-3S τοG3588 T-ASN ειναιG1510 V-PAN ισαG2470 A-NPN θεωG2316 N-DSM
(Greek VB) όστις εν μορφή Θεού υπάρχων, δεν ενόμισεν αρπαγήν το να ήναι ίσα με τον Θεόν,
(GW) Although he was in the form of God and equal with God, he did not take advantage of this equality.
(Hebrew NT SG) הוּא אֲשֶׁר בְּמוֹצָאֹתָיו נִמְצָא בִדְמוּת אֱלֹהִים וּבְכָל־זֹאת לֹא חָשַׁב הֱיוֹתוֹ שָׁוֶה לֵאלֹהִים כְּשָׁלָל לוֹ׃
(ISV) In God's own form existed he, and shared with God equality, deemed nothing needed grasping.
(JUB) who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God,
(KJV) Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
(KJV+) Who,G3739 beingG5225 inG1722 the formG3444 of God,G2316 thoughtG2233 it notG3756 robberyG725 to beG1511 equalG2470 with God:G2316
(KJV-BRG) Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
(Latin) qui cum in forma Dei esset non rapinam arbitratus est esse se aequalem Deo
(LEB) who, existing in the form of God, did not consider being equal with God something to be grasped,
(LITV) who subsisting in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God,
(MKJV) who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God,
(Murdock) who, as he was in the likeness of God, deemed it no trespass to be the coequal of God;
(NEV) Who, though being in the mental image of God, did not consider grasping at being equal with God,
(RV) who, being in the form of God, counted it not a prize to be on an equality with God,
(TLV) Who, though existing in the form of God, did not consider being equal to God a thing to be grasped.
(TS2009) who, being in the form of Elohim, did not regard equality with Elohim a matter to be grasped,
(WEB) who, existing in the form of God, didn’t consider equality with God a thing to be grasped,
(WEBA) who, existing in the form of God, didn’t consider equality with God a thing to be grasped,
(Webster) Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
(Weymouth) Although from the beginning He had the nature of God He did not reckon His equality with God a treasure to be tightly grasped.
(Williams) Though He was existing in the nature of God, He did not think His being on an equality with God a thing to be selfishly grasped,
(WNT) Although from the beginning He had the nature of God He did not reckon His equality with God a treasure to be tightly grasped.
(YLT) who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal to God,
And of course you are able by one single verse of scriptures establish absolutely this mathematical error as God's Truth. 1/2 plus 1/2 equals 1. 1/1 plus 1/1 equals 2. So then are you saying that there are two gods or two persons in Jesus? The trinity cannot be proven by mathematics nor by the scriptures alone. If it is the truth it is only known to anyone by faith or by a direct one on one revelation from God to a person.
Or did those who first described a trinity reject the One God which is seen in the scriptures by their complex and really impossible to understand phrases and definitions? If the trinity were true, no one I have met has really embraced it except by faith which is... "...the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen".
And you have accepted the conclusions of theologians you have never met. Why not accept rather the Word of God which God speaks to any willing heart now?
101G
Well-Known Member
first thanks for the reply. second, JESUS was not BORN, not the spirit that was in that body. understand, Jesus the Spirit existed before the flesh he came in as well as his Nmae. understand the son of Man came from HEAVEN, the son of God came out of the EARTH, meaning the womb of the Woman.
Now before we go any futher let reconcile what was born and who was not born... ok.
I'll go first, if you don't mind. scripture,
John 3:13 "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven".
flesh and blood is not in heaven to come down.
second scripture, Luke 1:35 "And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God".
here the son of God came out of Mary womb. so clearly the spirit is not born, nor created.
Now, if you can correct me on these scriptures please do.
so let's take this one step at a time.
My Position is this, the son of man is not born, son of God is born.
#2. Jesus did not have the mind of his Father when he came in the flesh, here's why. scripture,
Isaiah 50:4 "The Lord GOD hath given me the tongue of the learned, that I should know how to speak a word in season to him that is weary: he wakeneth morning by morning, he wakeneth mine ear to hear as the learned. (HERE, OUR LORD WAS LEARNING DAY BY DAY, if one want's to know wre the missing years of the Lord childhood/teenage years was, HERE THEY ARE)
Isaiah 50:5 "The Lord GOD hath opened mine ear, and I was not rebellious, neither turned away back.
to back this up, scripture,
Luke 2:39 "And when they had performed all things according to the law of the Lord, they returned into Galilee, to their own city Nazareth.
Luke 2:40 "And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him".
ok, if filled, filled, then he must didn't have it. but do not the scriptures states Jesus is the WISDOM, and POWER of God? (per 1 Corinthians 1:24), so how did the baby Jesus get this way? the answer is in the scripture you gave,
Philippians 2:7 "But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
that word there "reputation" is the Greek word,
G2758 κενόω kenoo (ke-no-ō') v.
1. to make empty.
2. (figuratively) to abase, neutralize, falsify.
[from G2756]
KJV: make (of none effect, of no reputation, void), be in vain
Root(s): G2756
definition #2. give us our answer. this is easy. see he had to LEARN just like us because "HE", "HE" the Lord Jesus "MADE" himself of NONE EFFECT. do you know what that means? listen,
Psalms 8:5 "For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour." NOW NT,
Hebrews 2:9 "But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man".
Philippians 2:7 "But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
ok, who MADE him lower than the angel? Read Psalms 8:5 carefully, and then read Philippians 2:7 carefully......... (smile)
your turn. will be looking for your answer.
I wanted you to compare them to each other, of course...the biblical hermeneutic given to us in 1 Corinthians 2:13 (kjv).
1/1 x 1/1 = 1/1
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