Once Saved....always Saved - Results of Questionnaire.

[Taken]

ONCE SAVED -

Yep, the Lord's Word is True.
Yep, the Lord is Faithful.

Become saved ONCE; it's FOREVER!

God Bless,
Taken

 

[bbyrd009]

Hitler himself could not have set up a more schizoid lie imo

 

[Taken]

Hitler himself could not have set up a more schizoid lie imo

THAT is the cunning trickery deception!

Saten invented it, some men USE the same concept.

Flatter people with words to foster agreement;
while the deeds of going along results in oppression!
And the consequence is long lasting, sometimes forever.

 

[bbyrd009]

Scripture considers "who then can be saved?"

Christians assert "who then can be lost?"

doesn't take too much reflection to see which one is better for the collection plate i guess

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

This is the blunder that YOU and every other absolutist makes.
You take ONE verse and build an entire doctrine around it - instead of taking ALL of the pertinent verses about salvation in context.

The Bible ALSO says that the following saves us and/or aids in our salvation:
- Being baptized (Matt. 28:19-20, Mark 16:16, John 3:5, Acts 2:38, Rom. 2:29, Rom. 6:1-11, Col. 2:12-17, 1 Peter 3:21)
- Picking up our cross daily to follow him (Matt. 16:24, Luke 9:23)
- Works of mercy and charity (Matt. 19:21, 25:31–46, Luke 18:22)
- Obeying his commandments (John 14:15, 15:10)
- Doing the will of the Father (Matt. 7:21, James 1:22)
- Suffering with Christ (Matt. 10:38, 16:24, Mark 8:34, John 12:24, Rom. 8:17, 2 Cor. 1:5-7, Eph. 3:13, Phil. 1:29, 2 Tim. 1:8, 1 Peter 2:19-21, 4:1-2)


As for the verse YOU presented - here is how Jesus clarifies that:
Matt. 7:21
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but ONLY the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

And what is the will of the Father?

 

[BreadOfLife]

And what is the will of the Father?

The will of the Father is that everybody believes in the Son.
What does "believing" in Jesus entail??
According to Scripture, believing in Jesus means:

- Being baptized (Matt. 28:19-20, John 3:5, Rom. 2:29, Rom. 6:1-11, Col. 2:12-17, 1 Peter 3:21)
- Picking up our cross daily to follow him (Matt. 16:24, Luke 9:23)
- Works of mercy and charity (Matt. 19:21, 25:31–46, Luke 18:22)
- Obeying his commandments (John 14:15, 15:10)
- Doing the will of the Father (Matt. 7:21, James 1:22)
- We must suffer with Christ (Matt. 10:38, 16:24, Mark 8:34, John 12:24, Rom. 8:17, 2 Cor. 1:5-7, Eph. 3:13, Phil. 1:29, 2 Tim. 1:8, 1 Peter 2:19-21, 4:1-2)

Can't get around the details, Rollo . . .

 

[Taken]

Scripture considers "who then can be saved?"

Christians assert "who then can be lost?"

doesn't take too much reflection to see which one is better for the collection plate i guess

Who can be saved, who can be lost....
Are teaching concepts, for the benefit of mankind.

The teaching all boils down to;

Does a man desire or fear to be FOREVER
"WITH" the Lord.
Or
Does a man desire or fear to be FOREVER "WITHOUT" the Lord.

Tic, tic, tic, for every individual to make his ELECTION.

 

[bbyrd009]

But for the sake of the elect, whom he has chosen

seems to suggest differently, wadr

 

[BreadOfLife]

Who can be saved, who can be lost....
Are teaching concepts, for the benefit of mankind.

The teaching all boils down to;

Does a man desire or fear to be FOREVER
"WITH" the Lord.
Or
Does a man desire or fear to be FOREVER "WITHOUT" the Lord.

Tic, tic, tic, for every individual to make his ELECTION.

We would ALL love to have an iron-clad guarantee that we won't fall away.
Unfortunately, the Bible doesn't teach that. In fact, as I and others have amply shown - it teaches the exact opposite.

 

[Taken]

We would ALL love to have an iron-clad guarantee that we won't fall away.
Unfortunately, the Bible doesn't teach that. In fact, as I and others have amply shown - it teaches the exact opposite.

You are so busy teaching what is True according to you...

You are blinded to what is True
according to God...

 

[BreadOfLife]

You are so busy teaching what is True according to you...

You are blinded to what is True
according to God...

No - I am parroting what Christ's Church has taught for 2000 years on the subject.

The plain fact is that at NO time has the Church EVER taught the man-made invention of OSAS.
This perversion didn't come about until the Protestant Revolt in the 16th century.

 

[Taken]

No - I am parroting what Christ's Church has taught for 2000 years on the subject.

The plain fact is that at NO time has the Church EVER taught the man-made invention of OSAS.
This perversion didn't come about until the Protestant Revolt in the 16th century.

You are preaching about loss of Salvation, which NEVER applies to ONCE it has been RECEIVED.

Lots of people can LOSE out on RECEIVING Salvation, which NEVER applies to ONCE it has been RECEIVED.

You are preaching SALVATION can be RECEIVED and "THEN LOST", which is FALSE.
And would make God A LIAR.

And there is no such thing as a REPEATED receiving of SALVATION.

Receiving SALVATION is a ONE TIME EVENT.

It is EFFECTED by a man ONE TIME ~
Calling on the Lord in Confession of Belief in his HEART.

It is THEN by the Lord ONE TIME ~
Restoring the mans soul (along with other changes EFFECTED by the Lord.

Salvation is a GIFT, provided to ALL by the Lord.

If ONCE, a man calls on the Lord, confesses belief in his heart;
ONE TIME the Lord gives the man the GIFT of SALVATION.

If a man NEVER calls on the Lord to confess belief in his heart;
That man LOSES, the gift. It becomes lost to the man, because the man NEVER received the Gift....duh, he loses his Salvation!

If a man calls on the Lord TO CONFESS belief,
And the confession IS A LIE.....the man IS NOT GIVEN SALVATION....and LOSES his Salvation; Because he LIED.

It is the Holy Spirit that does all of the RESTORING of a man soul. Lie to the Holy Spirit, and one has LOST his opportunity to RECEIVE the Gift of SALVATION.

You are teaching the gift of Salvation can be RECEIVED, then LOST, which is FALSE.

ONCE RECEIVIED it is FOREVER.
ONCE SAVED it is FOREVER.
ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED. It's FOREVER.

 

[APAK]

No - I am parroting what Christ's Church has taught for 2000 years on the subject.

The plain fact is that at NO time has the Church EVER taught the man-made invention of OSAS.
This perversion didn't come about until the Protestant Revolt in the 16th century.

BreadOfLIfe:

This is the real rub, in your defense of an indefensible stance. I believe you are engaged in a losing battle that you have spent many years obsessed with and without questioning it.

You have taken for granted that this man-made invention, that can be called the 'Universal Church,' has been and still is the ultimate and most destructive made-made religious creation for believers in Christ. I can say this because of my background and learning...

From especially it conception in the 3rd and 4th centuries, matured and guided by holy pagans, soldiers, politicians, religious leaders and profiteers, you believe that these men were of God and God led them for the good of all mankind. You also use the term ' The Church" as the icon of God's affairs and presence. This is also a fabrication by the manipulation of words and terms previously used in scripture.

Have you attempted re-evaluating your stance and this man-made model you apparently adore? What have you got to lose...? The spirit can lead you if you so desire...

Bless you,

APAK

 

[BreadOfLife]

BreadOfLIfe:

This is the real rub, in your defense of an indefensible stance. I believe you are engaged in a losing battle that you have spent many years obsessed with and without questioning it.

You have taken for granted that this man-made invention, that can be called the 'Universal Church,' has been and still is the ultimate and most destructive made-made religious creation for believers in Christ. I can say this because of my background and learning...

From especially it conception in the 3rd and 4th centuries, matured and guided by holy pagans, soldiers, politicians, religious leaders and profiteers, you believe that these men were of God and God led them for the good of all mankind. You also use the term ' The Church" as the icon of God's affairs and presence. This is also a fabrication by the manipulation of words and terms previously used in scripture.

Have you attempted re-evaluating your stance and this man-made model you apparently adore? What have you got to lose...? The spirit can lead you if you so desire...

Bless you,

APAK

Good grief - here we go again . . .
I always hear from ignorant anti-Catholics like yourself that the Catholic Church began "somewhere" in the 4th century - yet NONE of you can tell me when.

If nothing else - the Catholic Church keeps detailed records of EVERYTHING, including its declarations and decrees.
Sooooo, where is the evidence for this comically-ignorant claim?

The fact is that if you had a Catholic past - you left because of ignorance and/or laziness.
Ignorance of what the Church teaches and laziness in finding out for yourself.

 

[BreadOfLife]

You are preaching about loss of Salvation, which NEVER applies to ONCE it has been RECEIVED.

Lots of people can LOSE out on RECEIVING Salvation, which NEVER applies to ONCE it has been RECEIVED.

You are preaching SALVATION can be RECEIVED and "THEN LOST", which is FALSE.
And would make God A LIAR.

And there is no such thing as a REPEATED receiving of SALVATION.

Receiving SALVATION is a ONE TIME EVENT.

It is EFFECTED by a man ONE TIME ~
Calling on the Lord in Confession of Belief in his HEART.

It is THEN by the Lord ONE TIME ~
Restoring the mans soul (along with other changes EFFECTED by the Lord.

Salvation is a GIFT, provided to ALL by the Lord.

If ONCE, a man calls on the Lord, confesses belief in his heart;
ONE TIME the Lord gives the man the GIFT of SALVATION.

If a man NEVER calls on the Lord to confess belief in his heart;
That man LOSES, the gift. It becomes lost to the man, because the man NEVER received the Gift....duh, he loses his Salvation!

If a man calls on the Lord TO CONFESS belief,
And the confession IS A LIE.....the man IS NOT GIVEN SALVATION....and LOSES his Salvation; Because he LIED.

It is the Holy Spirit that does all of the RESTORING of a man soul. Lie to the Holy Spirit, and one has LOST his opportunity to RECEIVE the Gift of SALVATION.

You are teaching the gift of Salvation can be RECEIVED, then LOST, which is FALSE.

ONCE RECEIVIED it is FOREVER.
ONCE SAVED it is FOREVER.
ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED. It's FOREVER.

Really?
Where does God say that you can NEVER lose your salvation??

As I have shown you repeatedly - the Bible disagrees with you . . .

Romans 11:22
“See, then, the kindness and severity of God: severity toward those who fell, but God's kindness to you, provided you REMAIN in his kindness; otherwise you to will be cut off.”
Paul is warning the faithful to REMAIN in God’s favor or they will lose their salvation. How can they lose what they never had?

Hebrews 10:26-27
“If we sin deliberately AFTER receiving KNOWLEDGE of the truth, there no longer remains sacrifice for sins but a fearful prospect of judgment and a flaming fire that is going to consume the adversaries.”
This is a clear warning that falling away from God will result in the loss of our salvation. The Greek ford for “knowledge” used here is NOT the usual word (oida). This is talking about a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei). This verse is about CHRISTIANS who had an EPIGNOSIS of Christ and who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

2 Peter 2:20-22
For if they, having escaped the defilements of the world through the KNOWLEDGE of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ, again become entangled and overcome by them, their last condition is worse than their first.
For it would have been better for them not to have KNOWN the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment handed down to them.
Here, Peter illustrates that those who had a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei) of Christ – CHRISTIANS – who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

Matt. 5:13
You are the salt of the earth. But if salt loses its taste, with what can it be seasoned? It is no longer good for anything but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.
This one is self-explanatory - even to a blind person . . .

1 Cor. 9:27
"I pummel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified."
Paul is saying that he wrestles with his own fleshly desires so that he might not fall back into sin.

2 Peter 3:17
Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position.
Peter is warning the faithful not to fall back into sin and lawlessness.

1 John 2:24
See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. IF it does, you also will REMAIN in the Son and in the Father.
This is an admonition to try to remain faithful.

Rev. 3:5
He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels.
God cannot "blot out" a name that was never there in the first place. He is talking about CHRISTIANS who are already saved and how they can LOSE their salvation.

Rev. 22:19
And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.
How can God "take away" somebody’s share of heaven if they never had it to begin with? This is about CHRISTIANS who may or may NOT make it into Heaven.

 

[APAK]

Good grief - here we go again . . .
I always hear from ignorant anti-Catholics like yourself that the Catholic Church began "somewhere" in the 4th century - yet NONE of you can tell me when.

If nothing else - the Catholic Church keeps detailed records of EVERYTHING, including its declarations and decrees.
Sooooo, where is the evidence for this comically-ignorant claim?

The fact is that if you had a Catholic past - you left because of ignorance and/or laziness.
Ignorance of what the Church teaches and laziness in finding out for yourself.

Your reaction was expected and you have proven my point that you really have 'no clothes.'


APAK

 

[BreadOfLife]

Your reaction was expected and you have proven my point that you really have 'no clothes.'
APAK

TRANSLATION:
"I have absolutely ZERO evidence for my ignorant claims about the Catholic Church - but I thought I'd give it a shot."

Let me know when you want to have an intelligent conversation - but leave the lies and myths at the door . . .

 

[mjrhealth]

I still beg to wonder, wheter this is a "Christian" or a "catholic", forum". I thought Christianity was about Christ,, am I wrong....???

 

[BreadOfLife]

I still beg to wonder, wheter this is a "Christian" or a "catholic", forum". I thought Christianity was about Christ,, am I wrong....???

YOU beg to wonder because you're ignorant of the fact that Catholics were the very first Christians.

 

[Taken]

Really?
Where does God say that you can NEVER lose your salvation??

Once received....really? You don't know what FOREVER means?

As I have shown you repeatedly - the Bible disagrees with you . . .

No. However your UNDERSTANDING is not inline with Scripture.

Romans 11:22

“See, then, the kindness and severity of God: severity toward those who fell, but God's kindness to you, provided you REMAIN in his kindness; otherwise you to will be cut off.”

SEVERITY to those who fell.
KINDNESS from God, to those who are SAVED and KIND.

Kindness IS NOT SALVATION!
IF one IS SAVED, and NOT KIND, nor shall God be KIND to them!

Hebrews 10:26-27

“If we sin deliberately AFTER receiving KNOWLEDGE of the truth

, there no longer remains sacrifice for sins but a fearful prospect of judgment and a flaming fire that is going to consume the adversaries.”

Receiving KNOWLEDGE is NOT receiving SALVATION!
Receiving KNOWLEDGE is a beginning of LEARNING about God, and His provision of SALVATION.
Begin learning and STOP, before having received SALVATION, You will put yourself in jeopardy of never RECEIVING SALVATION.

No duh! If one does not RECEIVE SALVATION, they lose it.
KNOWLEDGE is NOT SALVATION!

2 Peter 2:20-22

For if they, having escaped the defilements of the world through the KNOWLEDGE of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ, again become entangled and overcome by them, their last condition is worse than their first.
For it would have been better for them not to have KNOWN the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment handed down to them.

KNOWLEDGE is not SALVATION.

Matt. 5:13

You are the salt of the earth. But if salt loses its taste, with what can it be seasoned? It is no longer good for anything but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.

I doubt you understand it. It is not about losing Salvation. It is about a man with Salvation being told unworthy Service in unworthy and discarded.

BEING a worthy Servant is NOT SALVATION!

1 Cor. 9:27
"I pummel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified."

Preaching is NOT SALVATION!

2 Peter 3:17

Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position.

Your SECURE position is not SALAVATION, BY the LAW or other men.

1 John 2:24

See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. IF it does, you also will REMAIN in the Son and in the Father.

What a man HAS HEARD, is NOT SALVATION!

Rev. 3:5

He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels.

Duh! EVERY man BORN has his OWN LIFE ~ It's CALLED BLOOD.

And every man Born is recorded in the Book OF LIFE. Men who "RECEIVE" Salvation REMAIN IN THE BOOK of LIFE.
Men who do not Receive SALVATION and become BORN "OF" God, are blotted OUT of the BOOK OF LIFE.

Rev. 22:19

And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

TWO things -

First of ALL, learning knowledge, keep learning, Hearing, Service, Works.....
ARE NOT SALVATION!

And Salvation is not KEPT, by learning knowledge, keep learning, Service or Works!

Secondly, Mankind is created and made BY GOD. God provides for His created mankind.

A man must TAKE what God provides OR LOSE IT AND GO WITHOUT!!

God provides seeds. YOU grow the garden. YOU pick the food. YOU prepard the food. YOU eat the food.

God provides water. YOU dig the well. You draw from the well. YOU drink the water.

God provides SALVATION. You learn what Salvation IS. YOU decide if you want it.
IF YOU WANT IT you take it. IF you don't, you LOSE IT and GO WIHOUT!

God provides a QUICKEN spirit. You learn what a QUICKENED spirit is. YOU decide if you want it.
IF YOU WANT IT you take it. IF you don't,
You LOSE out on HAVING your spirit QUICKENED.

You are preaching KNOWLEDGE, and LEARING, and SERVICE and WORKS...
Are HOW you receive and YOU KEEP Salvation.

That is a JEWISH Concept taught in Scripture BY Jewish men, TO Jewish men.

And MUCH of what was taught TO Jewish men, BY Jewish men was early on taught and remains taught BY Catholic Church's....and some others.

Salvation is a gift from God, TO a man WHO has called on the Lord and heartfully confessed belief in God and the Word of God.

THE GIFT IS FOREVER, and has nothing to do with WORKS or SERVICE or a mans POWER to try and hold on to his Salvation.

You obviously DO not know what FOREVER means.

You obviously DO not know it is the Lords indwelling SPIRIT that is the POWER that KEEPS the mans soul SAVED.

You obviously DO not know men follow, receive knowledge, believe, have faith.....WITHOUT BEING SAVED.....and they
Can FALL AWAY....stop following, stop receiving knowledge, stop believing, stop receiving faith....

BECAUSE THEY FAILED TO TAKE and RECEIVE SALVATION.....oops too bad, they LOSE what was prepared for them to receive AND THEY DIDN'T TAKE IT!!

Sheesh!