Once Saved....always Saved - Results of Questionnaire.

[BreadOfLife]

Jesus is the Word.
Christ is the Power.

I think I was pretty clear.
Power of Jesus, is Power from Jesus.
Power to drive out Demons with Jesus' Power, was a point I stressed.

Mark 6:7 is very clear. Jesus gave the 12 Power to drive out unclean spirits.

This Scripture speaks NOTHING of Jesus exercising His Power to Save "any" of the 12's souls.

Judas is a prime example of a man who was following along, learning, believing, doubting, and walking away, without ever having received Salvation of his soul.

God Bless,
Taken

And now you're tripping over your own words.

A person who does NOT have a full, experiential knowledge of Christ (Epignosis) cannot drive out demons.
Judas could because he DID have that Epignosis - and later slid into darkness by his own doing.

 

[bbyrd009]

My interest was more in the list of Scriptural Laws, that you implied "gotta" be obeyed.

imo this is kept obscure for a reason, and if Paul can speak generally about not breaking them--whatever they are--then so can i! Do what you do from conviction, and be skeptical of anyone telling you that you have to do anything imo, bc the end of that is to be judging someone else i guess, that is the whole point of making laws, right; to put other ppl under them? So i don't want to be building any towers here my own self, and so coming under the condemnation of the law.

see how the focus is put on obeying some "law," when forgiveness of others who have not observed the "law" is really where we should be focussed imo. The Scriptural Law is "do it from conviction," near as i can tell. Be prepared to give an account, iow, to your enemies, when they ask you, be ready to witness to them. These will be family members of course, not strangers; "a man's enemies will be those of his own household."

see, Spongebob is going to have to be explaining, giving an account to his little "family member" here, not the stranger, right

so "witness" the way we have had it defined for us is whacked too

 

[bbyrd009]

A person who does NOT have a full, experiential knowledge of Christ (Epignosis) cannot drive out demons.

ha, and of course we all have an intimate story about those who actually have epignosis literally driving out demons, right

 

[BreadOfLife]

I disagree with you.
Epignosis describes divine truth.
It is not used in Romans 11.
But it is used in Romans 10:2;
"For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge."
This is your unsaved.

First of all - I didn't say that "Epignosis" was found in Romans 11. I said that it was found in Hebrews 10:26-27 and 2 Peter 2:20-22. Epignosis is not the normal word for "knowledge". That word is "oida", which simply means to have knowledge of.

As I explained earlier - Epignosis is a FULL, experiential knowledge that can only come by truly knowing and understanding.

Both Hebrews 10:26-27 and 2 Peter 2:20-22 are speaking to born again Christians.

 

[BreadOfLife]

ha, and of course we all have an intimate story about those who actually have epignosis literally driving out demons, right

Yes, we DO - in Scripture.
The Apostles drove out demons.

 

[bbyrd009]

Yes, we DO - in Scripture.
The Apostles drove out demons.

"intimate" BoL

 

[BreadOfLife]

Spiritual understanding is often regarded as silly. No matter, human understanding is but foolishness to God.
Why are you WARNED about ANYTHING?
So you don't lose your salvation?
Warnings are for the benefit of man.
I think perhaps you may be amiss of what "your Salvation" means.
Salvation is "yours", and "everyone else's"...
For the TAKING.
IOW - IF one does not TAKE and RECIEVE "their" Salvation....they Don't HAVE IT.
If one physically DIES, never having Claimed, Taken, Recieved "THEIR" Salvation....they Lose it. They LOST their opportunity to Receive A Gift that was provided FOR THEM TO RECEIVE.
Physically DEAD men Know nothing.
The Lord has TAKEN their BLOOD, ie their Physical LIFE.
Gen 9:5
They do not get a refill of Blood, to decide they want to Claim their Salvation.
HOLD ON fellow ~ Don't start SPEAKING FOR ME! I said no such thing!
Not impressed with you SPEAKING FOR ME, then telling me what YOU HAVE SAID is false.
By one Calling on the Lords Name and telling Him that from the thoughts of their Heart, they Believe in Him. Period.
Submitting to the Lord, via BELIEF in their Heart IS doing Gods Will.
ENDURE ? Remain to the end?
Why might you presume that would be an issue for me?
I have the POWER of the Holy Spirit within me, KEEPING me FOREVER....without ending.
It appears you do not know the difference between ONE WHO HAS the indwelling POWER of the Holy Spirit.

And another who is still UNDER THE LAW, (hasn't accepted the INDWELLING Holy Spirit) and MUST 'endure...continue...remain' subject to their laws, traditions, festivals, repeatedly being forgiven.
Are you a Jew under the Law?
Again, I am already SAVED. I don't "keep, retain or secure" my SAVED position. The Indwelling Power of the Lord, who Restored my soul; KEEPS my soul forever Saved.
Clarifying is not a game. It's clarifying.
Apparently you do not grasp.
Salvation is a gift. One does not HAVE IT, until they RECEIVE IT.
Apparently you do not grasp.
You expect the Lord to only speak the Truth to you.....and he expects the same from you.
Apparently you do not grasp.
When a man SOLICITS the Lord, and calls on His Name, to Receive "HIS GIFT" of Salvation;
That man exercised his Freewill.
But hey if that man is a Liar, and didn't REALLY MEAN IT.....
I suppose by "some people's" way of thinking, he could have fooled the Lord, received Salvation, and then later prance around na, na, na, na, na...
That the Lord gave such man Salvation and the man Threw his Salvation back in the Lords face.
Nah!
God Bless,
Taken

Quite a verbose rant - but you're wrong on ALL points here.

I asked you to tell my why born-again, spirit-fill Christians would be warned about NOT falling back into darkness and you went off on a tare about them NOT being saved in the first place if they fall away. This is ludicrous and is NOT what Scripture teaches.

Those early born again Christians are being warned not to fall away because they will be damned. Again - why else would they be warned??

Why do you warn a child not to cross the street in heavy traffic??
Why do you warn an honest person not to cheat on their taxes??
It because of the consequences. Paul warns us in Rom. 6:23 that the consequences of sin is DEATH. Not a physical death but a spiritual one.

These letters were written to Christians - not pagans.

 

[BreadOfLife]

"intimate" BoL

Not really sure why you're demanding an "intimate" example.
I was speaking of the Apostles - not my wife or a close friend . . .

 

[bbyrd009]

Not really sure why you're demanding an "intimate" example.
I was speaking of the Apostles - not my wife or a close friend . . .

well, we are after all supposed to be imbued (endued? endowed?) with the same power, right

 

[Taken]

lol, well let's be fair, we have no problem claiming to our children that santa claus will bring them presents on Jesus' Birthday if their works merit that, too right

Well to be "fair", not everyone teaches their Children there is some "secret guy" sliding down their chimney while they sleep, bringing them presents.

and you might keep an open mind @ "God's Word," about It not being the Bible i mean. Word cannot really be translated or interpreted,

Gods WORD, is simply God Himself Expressing Himself, in an oral manner, that His Word comes forth out of His mouth.

(We have the same ability. We also have the consequences for our own word out of our mouth. You know, like people sent to prison?? It is not only their body that is locked up, so also is their own word sitting in that cell.)

see, if you give me your word you have to be in person, right, otherwise i have to qualify it when i tell it to someone else, a la "Taken even gave me his word--but it was written in a post online, not in person." like that, see.

People can give their word, in person, in writing, via technology of transmission, wire, air, etc.

Your kid could be posting in your name, or you could have gotten hacked,

Possible, but the general norm.

or i might even mis-communicate part of your word in the retelling, etc.

Highly likely, and very prevelant, even when using a form that provides [exact work quoting]...

Bible is not Word, at least in every sense.

Bible Scriptures are precisely "written words",
Precisely approved of God.

I can find "Easter" in the "Bible," see, but that is not in the God~Breathed part lol

Easter is not in the Bible.
Christmas is not in the Bible.
Trinity is not in the Bible.

Those are common man-made words....
That are pursuant to Scriptural precepts.

Precepts are mention nearly 40 times in Scripture.

When one searches the Scripture LOOKING FOR .... One thing said TWO different ways....
They will FIND IT. And often carry on with their anti-Christ argument, scripture contradicts itself.

The Scripture does not require it be hard and fast of a dozen or hundreds of men, repeating word for word the same things.
Nor does discussing Scripture require a speaker to word for word repeat Scripture to talk about Scripture is saying.

Destroyed works of Scripture was taught to be REWRITEN. Jer 36: 27-28

When you speak of "scriptural" laws...as a
Point Blanc requirement ALL MUST BE OBEYED....is a fallacy.

ALL LAWS, do not ALL APPLY to a single individual. (Not in National Laws, Civil Laws...or Scriptural Laws)

Thus IF one is ignorant of WHAT Laws do APPLY to the individual himself....he would hardly know what applies to other individuals.

Just sayin....

I don't presume AN OTHER person, has ALL of my information, to dictate WHAT does or does not APPLY to me.

Now if YOU, flat out tell me, YOU "are" Saved and "are" Born Again.....I would know immediately, a GREAT number of Spiritual/Biblical LAWS, that no longer APPLY to you.....precisely Because of your testimony, that you are Saved and Born Again.....precisely Because you have fulfilled the Laws to become Saved and Born Again.

However there ARE a great many people, who LIKE to CHARGE LAWS "DO APPLY" to such other people....EVEN AFTER having received testimony of other people, being Saved and Born Again....

And amusingly, even CLAIM, they are saved and born again....AND CLAIM, Laws that DO NOT APPLY to them....DO APPLY to them!

And further....they can not identify where these mysterious Laws are Written!

Just sayin... I find what people say and do, when it comes to "THE LAW", quite amusing.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[BreadOfLife]

Yikes...
Receiving Knowledge is not being Saved.

Believing, Following Along, is not being Saved.
Going to Chruch is not being Saved.
Shouting hallelujah and sayin Amen is not being Saved.
Giving yourselve a Name tag is not being Saved.
The Lord blessing you with rain, fair weather, is not being saved.
Casting out Demons, is not being Saved.
Reading the Bible, is not being Saved.
Your SIN AGAINST GOD, is NOT BELIEVING IN HIS WORD!

When a Man BELIEVES in His Heart, IN the Word of God....that man becomes Forgiven his Sins, washed of ALL unrighteousness, and Saved and Born Again!

The man DOES NOT, become UNSAVED, and RETURN TO DISBELIEF......duh uh....he does not "RETAIN" the same old corrupt heart, or the same old corrupt natural spirit, or the same old corrupt soul.....

And NOTHING in Scripture says a man can UNDO such things.
And NOTHING in Scripture says those things are KEPT, by the mans power.....as if he could undo those things and throw them back to the Lord in disgrace!

God Bless,
Taken

And it is painfully evident that you are in denial of what it means to have "Epignosis."

As I have explained - ad nauseam - Epignosis is NOT a simply "knowledge" (oida). It is a FULL, experiential knowing - like you would have with your spouse.

As I showed you with about a dozen passages from Scripture - the Word of God DOES teach that we can LOSE our position and be condemned by our own doing . . .(Matt. 7:19-23, Matt. 10:22, Matt. 24:13, Matt. 25:31–46, John 15:1-6, Rom. 11:22, 1 Cor. 9:27, 1 Cor. 4:4, 1 Tim. 4:1, Heb. 3:6, Heb. 3:12-14, Heb 6:4-6, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Pet. 3:17, 1 John 2:24, 1 John 5:13, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19).

 

[Taken]

if we are trying to get to "who is under the law?" opposed to who must obey the law though, diff Qs must be asked

"THE LAW".... obey, under...without knowing WHAT law?

God Bless,
Taken

 

[BreadOfLife]

well, we are after all supposed to be imbued (endued? endowed?) with the same power, right

That was NOT the point I was making, bbyrd. I was making the point that Judas had an Epignosis of Jesus and was able to cast out demons - and then fell away.

Not sure why you went off on a tangent . . .

 

[Taken]

an interesting exercise here is to try and state an Absolute Truth from Scripture; i don't think this can be done, and several have already tried here.

Not sure what the common verdict is on their attempts, maybe a poll would be in order lol

I trust Jesus IS the Truth. His Word suffices me to be Absolute.

I trust Scripture was written and blessed by God. His Acceptance is sufficient for me.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

so then Hitler is absolutely saved? i doubt you would go that far, see

I have no absolution on what transpires between one mans hearts thoughts and the Lord....nor do I have a need to know if some dead guy called on the Lord.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[BreadOfLife]

(Mark 6:13) doesn't say Judas drove out any demons. The twelve as a group drove out demons. They went out two by two, and as two by two they drove out demons.

(John 6:70) "Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?" Note it says 'is a devil', not will become a devil. Judas was a devil when he was chosen. Judas is not a picture of one who lost his salvation. He never was saved.

Stranger

First of all - Mark 6:13 says that the TWELVE drove out demons and healed the sick.
Show me a verse that says they ALL did - except for Judas.

Secondly, Luke 22:3 tells us that there was a point AFTER the twelve went off to cast out demons and heal the sick - that the Devil entered into Judas. Remember - the Gospel of John is NOT one of the Synoptic Gospels and does NOT follow the same order as the other three.

Judas was not ALWAYS a devil.

 

[bbyrd009]

Gods WORD, is simply God Himself Expressing Himself, in an oral manner, that His Word comes forth out of His mouth.

ergo a translated, retranslated, and then interpreted Bible is likely not the best expression of Word, yes

 

[bbyrd009]

Bible Scriptures are precisely "written words",
Precisely approved of God.

lol, good one

 

[bbyrd009]

Easter is not in the Bible.
Christmas is not in the Bible.
Trinity is not in the Bible.

"belief" is also not in the Bible, where you said it was, either, see

 

[Taken]

yet Christ did not advise one to count the cost as an empty command, i'm sure you would agree.
so you might first disentangle the current conflation of belief with faith that is so popular now, or at least see that that pov has you in complete agreement with the little children that have been told about santa, and take their parents' word on the matter, see

I have no tanglement between BELIEF, of what a man does....and FAITH, of what the Lord gives.

Nor am I responsible for what parents tell their children....or do in front of their children....or teach them.
Children grow up, and become accountable for their ownselves, to Trust to Believe in the Lord or not.

i suggest that "belief" = "those things that one holds to be true, that keep them from changing their minds," or something similar. The point being that whether this is strictly "true" or not, if the pov is fruitful, it is useful. Beliefs are not faith, even if they share a synonym iow

I believe a natural mans TRUTH, "IS" his natural spirit....and that "TRUTH" "IS" in the thoughts of his HEART.

I believe a natural mans MIND, "is" his natural thoughts in his BRAIN, that he hears, sees, and ponders, and guesses, or logically concludes is TRUE OR NOT....
TO whit...his own MIND, can conjour up LIES, and DECEIT, and send "THOSE" thoughts verbally out through his mouth.....while
KNOWING the TRUTH in his HEART....that his mouth spoke out oral LIES and DECEPTION.

The MIND is Against God.
The HEART is what God searches for a mans confession of Belief.

God Bless,
Taken