Were Adam and Eve the first humans on Earth?

[TheHC]

Why not directly educate Satan to be a spirit that does not tempt people…

An intelligent person has to want God’s education… Jehovah never forces anyone against their Free Will.

…and then create new human beings?

There were issues dealing with rulership that were raised, and are still in the process of getting resolved..
Creating new humans would have not settled those issues, of which all the angels were watching.

Plus, as descendants of Adam & Eve,… if God had done that, then we wouldn’t have existed.

…Or simply eliminate Satan directly

There again, it wouldn’t have settled the issue, if mankind can rule themselves. Remember, God’s entire spirit family was watching.

Isn’t that what tyrants do, just kill the opposition?
However, resolving the issues, and the outcomes that are reached, sets precedents, and no further questioning of God’s rulership will be allowed.
A lot of wisdom is seen in that way of handling the rebellion.

Maybe not the entire Book of Enoch is canon. Maybe not all of it is equally inspired.

Very reasonable in reaching such a conclusion! I say that, because it’s entire content is not included in the 66-book canon.

Someday, we can personally ask Enoch… He might say, “Hey! I never wrote or said this part!”

Take care, cousin.

 

[soberxp]

An intelligent person has to want God’s education… Jehovah never forces anyone against their Free Will.

There were issues dealing with rulership that were raised, and are still in the process of getting resolved..
Creating new humans would have not settled those issues, of which all the angels were watching.

Plus, as descendants of Adam & Eve,… if God had done that, then we wouldn’t have existed.

There again, it wouldn’t have settled the issue, if mankind can rule themselves. Remember, God’s entire spirit family was watching.

Isn’t that what tyrants do, just kill the opposition? Resolving the issues, and the outcomes that are reached, sets precedents, and no further questioning of God’s rulership will be allowed.
A lot of wisdom is seen in that way of handling the rebellion.

So if the way of educating Satan doesn't work and the way of destroying Satan doesn't work either, then what other methods are there?

Haven't you considered that God chose both ways at the same time?

You seem to be replying to the wrong place, that's another post.

 

[The Gospel of Christ]

But again this is where it diverges. Nowhere in the OT do we find the spirits of humans leaving their body to become ghosts and to hang around the earth to torment people. This is what is suggested about the Nephilim…but all humans perished in the flood, including the Nephilim. It was their errant fathers who were forced back into the spirit realm where they thereafter had their ability to materialize curtailed.

The fathers of the Nephilim were the fallen angels (the “sons of God” in Genesis 6), and their offspring — the Nephilim — were not human. That’s the point. They were hybrid abominations, a forbidden mixture of divine beings and human women. What we would understand today as genetic abominations.

And that’s why God judged the world with a flood.

“The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them.” (Genesis 6:4)

The early Jewish understanding — confirmed in the Book of Enoch, Jubilees, and echoed in 2 Peter 2:4 and Jude 6 — is that when the Nephilim died, their disembodied spirits had no place to go. They weren’t fully human (so not judged like humans), and they weren’t angelic (so not cast to Tartarus like their fathers). They became unclean spirits — what Jesus and the apostles later refer to as demons.

That’s why demons crave bodies.

That’s why they’re “restless.”

That’s why they fear the abyss.

You won’t find a single verse in the Old Testament describing dead humans wandering the earth as tormenting spirits. But you will find plenty of references to unclean spirits in the New Testament — and none of them are called fallen angels.

So if demons aren’t fallen angels, and they aren’t human ghosts, what are they?

1 Enoch 15:8–12

“And now, the giants, who are produced from the spirits and flesh, shall be called evil spirits upon the earth, and on the earth shall be their dwelling.”

This puts Genesis 6 into sharper context.
It explains what happened to the Nephilim after the Flood — their bodies died, but their spirits remained. These disembodied Nephilim became what we now call demons: cursed, restless, violent, and bound to the earth until final judgment.

They’re not fallen angels, and they’re not human ghosts.
They are the bastard spirits of a forbidden union — and that’s why Jesus encountered them constantly.
That’s why they fear the Abyss.
And that’s why this passage in Enoch matters — it connects the flood, the origin of demons, and the spiritual war still raging today.

The flood wiped out their bodies — not their spirits.

And now those spirits roam the earth, angry, defiled, and seeking flesh.

Jesus knew exactly who and what He was casting out.

The early church did too.

It’s only modern theology that decided to “demythologize” what the Bible made clear.

 

[Jericho]

Are these sources "inspired"?

Why does it need to be "inspired"?

 

[Berean]

Why does it need to be "inspired"?

Because if you believe God's Word, then Adam and Eve were the first humans and sources outside of God's Word that teach contrary to it, is just human reasoning.

 

[Jericho]

Because if you believe God's Word, then Adam and Eve were the first humans and sources outside of God's Word that teach contrary to it, is just human reasoning.

Just because something isn't "inspired" doesn't mean it's not useful. The Bible doesn't tell us everything. For instance, it doesn't tell us about dinosaurs, yet we know they existed. There's still a lot we don't know about our own prehistory. We try to fill in the gaps as best we can, but there are some things we can't know with certainty.

Regarding Adam and Eve, such theories don't contradict that they were unique creations. But when God created Adam and Eve, His very first command to them was to “replenish (mālā') the earth” (Gen 1:28). The wording suggests that something must have existed prior to Adam and Eve because you can’t replenish something that’s already been plenished. Some argue that the word “replenish” simply means to fill, and that is how some Bible translations have translated the Hebrew word mālā'. However, God also told Noah and his sons to “fill (mālā') the earth” (Gen 9:1). In both cases, the same Hebrew word, mālā', is used. Clearly then, the earth was filled with something before Noah’s flood. If “fill” meant to replenish the earth in Genesis 9:1, then it stands to reason that it also meant the same in Genesis 1:28. So, the question is, did something come before them like Neanderthals and Cro-Magnons? I'll be the first to admit that I don't have all the answers.

 

[Dash RipRock]

Were Adam and Eve the first humans on Earth?

God said in His Word that when He created man, Adam and Eve were the first two.

Any beings present previous to Adam and Eve being created were not humans created in God's Image.

This is a short conversation for those that believe what God says in His Word.

Those listening to spirits that are not of the Lord will not accept what God says and speculate endlessly.

 

[Aunty Jane]

when God created Adam and Eve, His very first command to them was to “replenish (mālā') the earth” (Gen 1:28). The wording suggests that something must have existed prior to Adam and Eve because you can’t replenish something that’s already been plenished. Some argue that the word “replenish” simply means to fill, and that is how some Bible translations have translated the Hebrew word mālā'. However, God also told Noah and his sons to “fill (mālā') the earth” (Gen 9:1). In both cases, the same Hebrew word, mālā', is used. Clearly then, the earth was filled with something before Noah’s flood. If “fill” meant to replenish the earth in Genesis 9:1, then it stands to reason that it also meant the same in Genesis 1:28. So, the question is, did something come before them like Neanderthals and Cro-Magnons? I'll be the first to admit that I don't have all the answers.

”The question is, did something come before them like Neanderthals and Cro-Magnons?”
The answer is no, if you follow the Bible alone.
If we consult the Bible to see where this word in Hebrew (mālā… Strongs H4390) is used elsewhere, we can get a consensus as what it means elsewhere in Genesis and other Bible books.

Gen 6:11, 13….”Now the earth was corrupt in the sight of God, and the earth was filled H4390 with violence.”
”Then God said to Noah, “The end of all flesh has comebefore Me; for the earth is filled H4390 with violence because of them; and behold, I am about to destroy them with the earth.“ (NASB)
”Replenish” is not appropriate in these verses.

Nor in this one.
Gen 21:19…”Then God opened her eyes and she saw a well of water; and she went and filled H4390 the skin with water and gave the lad a drink.”

Exodus 1:7…”But the sons of Israel were fruitful and increased greatly, and multiplied, and became exceedingly mighty, so that the land was filled H4390 with them.”

So taking this word at its primary meaning, is to “fill” what was empty, or to bring up the numbers to fill up a location with people.
“Replenish” just doesn’t fit with the narrative In relation to the garden of Eden, or in relation to what God restated to Noah. Both apply to an empty earth devoid of people, except the ones who were told to multiply.

With evolution, we know it is embellished evidence to fit their theory…..suggestions masquerading as facts.
Are Bible translators also guilty of the same problem? Are they trying to alter the meaning of words to fit their own narrative?
If other humans existed before Adam and his wife, then that destroys the whole reason why Christ came to redeem mankind, sold under sin and death through Adam’s disobedience. (Rom 5:12)

As the first humans, Adam and his wife were the first of a unique species, who alone possessed the attributes of their Creator, the only creatures to be “made in his image”.
Humans are superior to any animal in their ability to plan and deliberately and thoughtfully execute those plans with a concept of past, present and future. Animals have no concept of the future as they consciously live only in the present, but can acquire knowledge from past experience.
Instinct is programmed into them, but not so much with us. We learn through the spoken and written word, and by example we teach our children how to behave appropriately, according to a moral code instilled by our own parents. It is obvious that animals do not have a moral code.

As for the existence of Neanderthals and such…..these were often portrayed in artist’s impressions as humanoid, but also ape-like….and this was supposed to be proof that a type of ape-man existed. But researchers began to alter their view of what these creatures actually were, as more evidence began to accumulate. Back in 2009, Milford H. Wolpoff wrote in the American Journal of Physical Anthropology that “Neandertals may have been a true human race.” And to suggest that primitive people must have descended from apes, denigrates those primitive people who still exist in some parts of the world, even in this 21st century.

Those early reconstructions showed Neanderthals to be stooped and apelike, with long arms dangling down in front, we now have anthropologist‘s testimony that “Neanderthals probably did not look very different from some people of today.” It is now believed that they were “completely human, fully erect.”

Honest observers readily recognize that egos, money, and the need for media attention influence the way that “evidence” for human evolution was presented in the past and still is. Are we willing to put our trust in such evidence?

I’ll trust the Bible, written by someone who was there…and who created it all….way more reliable IMHO.

 

[The Gospel of Christ]

I almost forgot one of the most disturbing parts..

There are no ghosts. That little girl in the hallway? That voice calling your name? That shadow that moves when you’re alone? It’s not your grandmother. It’s not a soul in limbo. It’s not “energy” or “unfinished business.”

What you’re experiencing — what billions have been deceived into calling “paranormal” — is the spirit of a dead Nephilim. A demon. The cursed offspring of divine beings and human women (Genesis 6:4), wiped out in the Flood, but whose spirits were left behind by God’s decree (1 Enoch 15:8–12). They are not fully man, nor angel, and they are hated by Heaven. Their judgment was to remain earthbound — bodiless, violent, and forever hungry (Matthew 12:43).

These are the spirits Jesus confronted — the ones that shrieked when He approached (Mark 1:23–24), the ones who begged Him not to cast them into the Abyss before the appointed time (Luke 8:31). And they still speak today — through Ouija boards, séances, EVP recordings, and entertainment masquerading as ghost stories. They don’t want to spook you — they want to enter you. They don’t look like monsters — they wear the faces of those you mourn. That’s how they gain access. And once you give them your attention, they start rewriting your reality.

Think of them as judgment — not a fluke, but a filter.
They are allowed to remain on earth not because God is powerless, but because He uses them to sift the hearts of men (Deuteronomy 13:3, 2 Thessalonians 2:11). What you chase in grief or curiosity, He uses to test your allegiance. You’re not speaking with the dead — you’re choosing sides in a spiritual war.

 

[TheHC]

So if the way of educating Satan doesn't work and the way of destroying Satan doesn't work either, then what other methods are there?

I’m sorry, maybe i wasn’t clear….
Destroying Satan does work.
But the issues raised in Eden, needed to be addressed. Once they are completely resolved, Satan will be removed permanently. As in, destroyed.

God is perfectly justified in killing His enemies. By doing so, He’s usually protecting the righteous.

 

[Dash RipRock]

satan will be removed permanently. As in, destroyed.

satan is not going to cease to exist and neither are people who choose to not get born again and live their lives for the Lord.

They all will be alive and conscience suffering being tormented in hell

 

[TheHC]

satan is not going to cease to exist and neither are people who choose to not get born again and live their lives for the Lord.

They all will be alive and conscience suffering being tormented in hell

“The dead know nothing at all.”
Ecclesiastes 9:5

There is no ECT. The Bible doesn’t contradict itself.
However, it does use symbolic & metaphorical language.
Revelation 20:13,14 tells us “death & hell were cast into the Lake of Fire.”
How can you burn death?

Fire, in this instance, is symbolic… It represents complete destruction; whatever is thrown into it, will never return.

Either that, or God is fiendish and cruel. And we should know better.

 

[TheHC]

What happens when a human dies? Exactly what God told Adam at Genesis 3:19….
“YOU will return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are, and to dust you will return.”

Was Jehovah God talking to Adam’s body? No! God was talking to Adam, the person!

And at Genesis 2:7 God’s Word says that “Adam became a living soul.”
Adam was not ‘given’ a soul; Adam was a soul.

So then, do souls die? According to the Bible, yes….
All of the following Hebrew Scriptures (OT), in Hebrew, say “dead soul” (or dead souls):

Leviticus 19:28; Leviticus 20:6; Leviticus 21:1; Leviticus 21:11; Leviticus 22:4; Numbers 5:2; Numbers 6:6; Numbers 6:11; Numbers 19:11; Numbers 19:13; Genesis 17:14; Exodus 12:15; Exodus 12:19…..
Et.al.

(Look it up. Use a Hebrew-English Lexicon for these passages…. You’ll see where in English it says “body”, or “man”, or “corpse”, or however the version you use translates it, the Hebrew word is “nepes” or “nephesh”, which means “soul”.)

Why do most translators render the Hebrew word “soul” in those verses as something different?
Because they have preconceptions as to what happens at death….

But the Bible says otherwise: the soul, or person, dies. And stays dead.
(That’s why there’s a *future* resurrection. - John 5:28,29; 6:40)

To further cement this concept that the person dies, look at Ecclesiastes 9:5…
Ecclesiastes 9:5 says, ”For the living know that they will die; but the dead know nothing at all.”

Some like to say that “this means dead bodies.”

But who ‘knows’ things? A body, or a person? A PERSON! People know things, not their bodies!

So what this passage is saying, is:“For the living *[people]* know that they will die; but the dead
*[people]* know nothing at all”!!

So, the soul, the person, dies. -(Ezekiel 18:4).

Some might bring up Matthew 10:28, where Jesus states: “And do not become fearful of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather, fear him who can destroy both soul and body in Ge·henʹna.”

Since the Bible doesn’t contradict itself, how can we understand Jesus’ statement at Matthew 10:28?

Well, “nephesh” / “nepes” in Hebrew (which is “psychē” in Greek) can also stand for / refer to our life.
Chances for our life in the future, are always in God’s hands. That’s why Ezekiel 18:4,20, while it says “the soul that is sinning, the same will die”, Jehovah God also adds, “All the souls, TO ME they belong”!

But if He chooses not to restore our life in the *future* Resurrection (which is very unlikely), then our soul will effectively be ‘destroyed’. That is what the symbolic “Gehenna” / “Lake of Fire” means… complete destruction.

A Future Resurrection? Yes. (John 6:40,44) A resurrection for even the “unrighteous” — John 5:28,29; Acts 24:15.

This is the only hope the Bible gives, for the dead to live again. It will be wonderful!

Remember the Scripture I partly quoted, Revelation 20:13,14, above?

Vs13, KJV, says “And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.”

This is speaking of the future Resurrection! These dead…. Even those in Hell, the ones mentioned in Psalm 9:17…. are brought back to life!
They’ll be given an opportunity to “come to know” / “might know (KJV)” and gain eternal life. — John 17:3

God is not a cruel fiend, as many have been taught. He’s loving, as we can see when we understand His Word.

At John 11:11-15, Jesus likened death to sleep.

So when we read of God killing those who hated His people the Israelites, and then read 1 John 4:8, “God is love”, we can correlate these facts….
The dead *people* are at rest… they are R.I.P’ing… until the future Resurrection arrives!

 

[Aunty Jane]

I almost forgot one of the most disturbing parts..

There are no ghosts. That little girl in the hallway? That voice calling your name? That shadow that moves when you’re alone? It’s not your grandmother. It’s not a soul in limbo. It’s not “energy” or “unfinished business.”

What you’re experiencing — what billions have been deceived into calling “paranormal” — is the spirit of a dead Nephilim. A demon. The cursed offspring of divine beings and human women (Genesis 6:4), wiped out in the Flood, but whose spirits were left behind by God’s decree (1 Enoch 15:8–12). They are not fully man, nor angel, and they are hated by Heaven. Their judgment was to remain earthbound — bodiless, violent, and forever hungry (Matthew 12:43).

These are the spirits Jesus confronted — the ones that shrieked when He approached (Mark 1:23–24), the ones who begged Him not to cast them into the Abyss before the appointed time (Luke 8:31). And they still speak today — through Ouija boards, séances, EVP recordings, and entertainment masquerading as ghost stories. They don’t want to spook you — they want to enter you. They don’t look like monsters — they wear the faces of those you mourn. That’s how they gain access. And once you give them your attention, they start rewriting your reality.

Think of them as judgment — not a fluke, but a filter.
They are allowed to remain on earth not because God is powerless, but because He uses them to sift the hearts of men (Deuteronomy 13:3, 2 Thessalonians 2:11). What you chase in grief or curiosity, He uses to test your allegiance. You’re not speaking with the dead — you’re choosing sides in a spiritual war.

I am in full agreement with what you said here, except for one point that you cling to, but that scripture denies…..these demonic spirits are NOT the Nephilim….they are the angels that rebelled along with their mentor satan, who led them into disobedience. They were the original rebels who took it upon themselves to materialize and enjoy the pleasures of the flesh, because sin also overtook them as it did the humans.

The Nephilim were their offspring, but they were sons produced of the flesh….there was no spirit because there are no “ghosts” as you said. They were fully human but hybrid freaks of human nature because of who fathered them. It was their demon fathers who dematerialized and returned to the spirit realm to be used by God to test mankind.

Jesus spoke of them in his illustration of the “wheat and the weeds”….
Matt 25:42….
“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.“ (ESV) The devil is a fallen angel and so are his minions.

Revelation 12:7-9, 12 also speaks of these demonic “angels”…
”Now war arose in heaven, Michael and his angels fighting against the dragon. And the dragon and his angels fought back, but he was defeated, and there was no longer any place for them in heaven. And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world—he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him. . . . .Therefore, rejoice, O heavens and you who dwell in them! But woe to you, O earth and sea, for the devil has come down to you in great wrath, because he knows that his time is short!” (ESV)

Micheal and his angels had a war with the devil and his angels….the rebels were evicted, but not yet destroyed as Jesus said, there is an eternal punishment reserved for “for the devil and his angels”.

We know that satan had access to heaven and earth originally, (Job 1:6-7) and that a war with the devil and his angels took place there……but in this ‘time of the end’, (the days before the judgment) he and his hordes are confined to the earth, and are wreaking havoc…..we are witnessing it every day as the time approaches for their abyssing. (Rev 20:1-3) It will get worse, as God leads the devil and all who follow him, all the way to their destruction. The “weeds” are the first to go into “eternal cutting off”…..and will be joined by satan and his angels, but not until God is finished with them.

I believe that you are putting too much weight on the words of a book that is not part of inspired Scripture….there is a reason for its omission, if you believe that the whole Bible is the word of God.
You can see from the scripture quoted above that the book of Enoch contradicts those books that are included and inspired.

And as one who is so close to the truth in your studies…..who are your brethren with whom you worship? (Heb 10:24-25) If we are told to “get out of Babylon the great”, (Rev 18:4-5) where is the refuge that God always provides for his “people”? The truth is like ‘buried treasure’….those not willing to put in the effort, will never find it poking around on the surface.

Christians must have a brotherhood who all share one truth. (1 Cor 1:10)
They will be identified by traits that are lacking in counterfeit Christianity (the weeds of Jesus parable)
They will be “no part of the world” as Jesus said. (John 17:16; 18:36) No part of its corrupt politics, its bloodshed, its greedy commercialism or its false worship.
They will be criticized and hated for being different and seen as heretics just like Jesus was. (John 15:18-21)
They will be seen fulfilling the great commission “in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations”. (Matt 24:14; Matt 28:18-20; Matt 10:11-14; Acts 20:20)

We cannot be Christians in isolation, nor can we be the “wheat” sitting in among the “weeds”, indistinguishable…we must be separated before the judgment by our choices and conduct, giving Jesus a clear indication of which ‘camp’ we belong in. In the first century, Judaism, (the accepted faith of the Jews) was rejected by Jesus, and his disciples separated themselves from those false religious hypocrites. (Matt 23:13, 15)

Who is Jesus talking to in Matt 7:21-23? Who are those he “NEVER knew”? They call him their “Lord” and vainly try to justify themselves by all the things they claimed to do as his Christian disciples….yet what does Jesus already know about them when he rejects them without mercy?

We get one shot at getting things right in this judgment period…..just as the people in Noah’s day had ample opportunity to listen and obey the warning that Noah gave to them, not only by his words, but also by his conduct in obedience to God’s command to build that enormous structure. (Matt 24:37-39)

“Few” by comparison, will be found on the cramped road to life. (Matt 7:13-14)
What will Jesus say to us on that day?

 

[The Gospel of Christ]

I am in full agreement with what you said here, except for one point that you cling to, but that scripture denies…..these demonic spirits are NOT the Nephilim….they are the angels that rebelled along with their mentor satan, who led them into disobedience. They were the original rebels who took it upon themselves to materialize and enjoy the pleasures of the flesh, because sin also overtook them as it did the humans.

The Nephilim were their offspring, but they were sons produced of the flesh….there was no spirit because there are no “ghosts” as you said. They were fully human but hybrid freaks of human nature because of who fathered them. It was their demon fathers who dematerialized and returned to the spirit realm to be used by God to test mankind.

Jesus spoke of them in his illustration of the “wheat and the weeds”….
Matt 25:42….
“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.“ (ESV) The devil is a fallen angel and so are his minions.

Revelation 12:7-9, 12 also speaks of these demonic “angels”…
”Now war arose in heaven, Michael and his angels fighting against the dragon. And the dragon and his angels fought back, but he was defeated, and there was no longer any place for them in heaven. And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world—he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him. . . . .Therefore, rejoice, O heavens and you who dwell in them! But woe to you, O earth and sea, for the devil has come down to you in great wrath, because he knows that his time is short!” (ESV)

Micheal and his angels had a war with the devil and his angels….the rebels were evicted, but not yet destroyed as Jesus said, there is an eternal punishment reserved for “for the devil and his angels”.

We know that satan had access to heaven and earth originally, (Job 1:6-7) and that a war with the devil and his angels took place there……but in this ‘time of the end’, (the days before the judgment) he and his hordes are confined to the earth, and are wreaking havoc…..we are witnessing it every day as the time approaches for their abyssing. (Rev 20:1-3) It will get worse, as God leads the devil and all who follow him, all the way to their destruction. The “weeds” are the first to go into “eternal cutting off”…..and will be joined by satan and his angels, but not until God is finished with them.

I believe that you are putting too much weight on the words of a book that is not part of inspired Scripture….there is a reason for its omission, if you believe that the whole Bible is the word of God.
You can see from the scripture quoted above that the book of Enoch contradicts those books that are included and inspired.

And as one who is so close to the truth in your studies…..who are your brethren with whom you worship? (Heb 10:24-25) If we are told to “get out of Babylon the great”, (Rev 18:4-5) where is the refuge that God always provides for his “people”? The truth is like ‘buried treasure’….those not willing to put in the effort, will never find it poking around on the surface.

Christians must have a brotherhood who all share one truth. (1 Cor 1:10)
They will be identified by traits that are lacking in counterfeit Christianity (the weeds of Jesus parable)
They will be “no part of the world” as Jesus said. (John 17:16; 18:36) No part of its corrupt politics, its bloodshed, its greedy commercialism or its false worship.
They will be criticized and hated for being different and seen as heretics just like Jesus was. (John 15:18-21)
They will be seen fulfilling the great commission “in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations”. (Matt 24:14; Matt 28:18-20; Matt 10:11-14; Acts 20:20)

We cannot be Christians in isolation, nor can we be the “wheat” sitting in among the “weeds”, indistinguishable…we must be separated before the judgment by our choices and conduct, giving Jesus a clear indication of which ‘camp’ we belong in. In the first century, Judaism, (the accepted faith of the Jews) was rejected by Jesus, and his disciples separated themselves from those false religious hypocrites. (Matt 23:13, 15)

Who is Jesus talking to in Matt 7:21-23? Who are those he “NEVER knew”? They call him their “Lord” and vainly try to justify themselves by all the things they claimed to do as his Christian disciples….yet what does Jesus already know about them when he rejects them without mercy?

We get one shot at getting things right in this judgment period…..just as the people in Noah’s day had ample opportunity to listen and obey the warning that Noah gave to them, not only by his words, but also by his conduct in obedience to God’s command to build that enormous structure. (Matt 24:37-39)

“Few” by comparison, will be found on the cramped road to life. (Matt 7:13-14)
What will Jesus say to us on that day?

Quick run down on your points..

Jesus cast out unclean spirits (daimonion), not angels. Why? Because angels already have physical form — they don’t crave possession.

Genesis 18–19 shows angels eating with Abraham and being mistaken for men in Sodom.
“They ate… The two angels came to Sodom, and Lot rose to meet them.”

Hebrews 13:2 confirms it:
“Some have entertained angels unawares.”

They don’t need a host — they can appear in human form at will.
But demons do seek bodies — constantly.

Luke 8:30–33: Demons beg Jesus to let them enter pigs.
“They begged Him… to let them enter these.”

Matthew 12:43–45:
“When the unclean spirit goes out… it seeks rest and finds none.”

If demons were just fallen angels, they wouldn't need hosts — because angels aren’t disembodied.

Nephilim Spirits Are the Demons
1 Enoch 15:8–12 explains it:
When the Nephilim were destroyed in the Flood (Genesis 6:4), their spirits were cursed to remain earthbound — bodiless, hungry, and violent. This aligns perfectly with how Jesus described demons — restless spirits seeking a home.

Fallen Angels Are Imprisoned — Not Roaming

2 Peter 2:4 and Jude 1:6 say the angels who sinned are chained in darkness, awaiting judgment.
So who’s left roaming around and tormenting mankind?
Their cursed offspring — the disembodied spirits of the Nephilim.

Jude Validates Enoch
Jude 1:14–15 quotes Enoch directly and calls him a prophet.
If Jude, inspired by the Holy Spirit, recognized Enoch’s words as prophecy, why dismiss the book he’s quoting so easily?

 

[Aunty Jane]

Quick run down on your points..

Jesus cast out unclean spirits (daimonion), not angels. Why? Because angels already have physical form — they don’t crave possession.

Genesis 18–19 shows angels eating with Abraham and being mistaken for men in Sodom.
“They ate… The two angels came to Sodom, and Lot rose to meet them.”

Hebrews 13:2 confirms it:
“Some have entertained angels unawares.”

They don’t need a host — they can appear in human form at will.
But demons do seek bodies — constantly.

Luke 8:30–33: Demons beg Jesus to let them enter pigs.
“They begged Him… to let them enter these.”

Matthew 12:43–45:
“When the unclean spirit goes out… it seeks rest and finds none.”

If demons were just fallen angels, they wouldn't need hosts — because angels aren’t disembodied.

Nephilim Spirits Are the Demons
1 Enoch 15:8–12 explains it:
When the Nephilim were destroyed in the Flood (Genesis 6:4), their spirits were cursed to remain earthbound — bodiless, hungry, and violent. This aligns perfectly with how Jesus described demons — restless spirits seeking a home.

Fallen Angels Are Imprisoned — Not Roaming

2 Peter 2:4 and Jude 1:6 say the angels who sinned are chained in darkness, awaiting judgment.
So who’s left roaming around and tormenting mankind?
Their cursed offspring — the disembodied spirits of the Nephilim.

Jude Validates Enoch
Jude 1:14–15 quotes Enoch directly and calls him a prophet.
If Jude, inspired by the Holy Spirit, recognized Enoch’s words as prophecy, why dismiss the book he’s quoting so easily?

You seem to be missing the point completely…..and that is why the demons could no longer materialize….and faithful angels still could. The condition into which God cast the demons is called “Tartarus”, (erroneously translated as “hell” in many Bibles) which was a condition of restraint like a ‘prison’ to them. These were “the spirits in prison” to who Jesus preached his judgment message after his resurrection. (1 Peter 3:18-20)

Fallen angels are at present confined to the earth until their abyssing with satan for 1000 years, whilst Christ and his elect bring the sinful human race back into reconciliation with the God from whom satan separated them. Then these rebels are released for one last test, before God takes us back to his original purpose for us here on this earth….and satan and his demons are destroyed in the lake of fire forever, never to be seen again. (It is not a place of conscious torment.)

Faithful angels do not need possession because they retain their ability to materialize. (though they have not done so to our knowledge since then….but then we could have encountered them unawares as they are, for all intents and purposes…humans.)

The demons need a physical anchor to remain here on this earth…..be it people or material things…..they can attach themselves to anything…even a piece of jewellery or clothing that has been in the possession of a demonized person. Many demons can attach themselves to just one host.

You speak of “Nephilim spirits” but these were human, of flesh, so they have no “spirit“ or ghost that survived their death…..it was their fathers who survived the flood….all air-breathers died.
If the angels who fathered the Nephilim had not dematerialized, what would have happened to them once their host body was dead? Why did they not dive into the water to inhabit the sea creatures and escape the flood? Did you never ask this question?

Jude validates nothing since we do not know where he gleaned his information. He doesn’t say it was from the book of Enoch, now does he? You cannot use suggestions as facts. Jesus could have provided that information….we just don’t know.

If you want to ignore all the scripture provided to you to maintain your faith in the book of Enoch….that is your choice, but I believe you have been misled on this very important point.
Scripture alone corrects you if you allow it to…..all of those things you mentioned are explainable just from the Bible……minus the book of Enoch.

 

[Grailhunter]

As material creatures, the Nephilim were destroyed in the flood,

Where they?

 

[The Gospel of Christ]

You seem to be missing the point completely…..and that is why the demons could no longer materialize….and faithful angels still could. The condition into which God cast the demons is called “Tartarus”, (erroneously translated as “hell” in many Bibles) which was a condition of restraint like a ‘prison’ to them. These were “the spirits in prison” to who Jesus preached his judgment message after his resurrection. (1 Peter 3:18-20)

Fallen angels are at present confined to the earth until their abyssing with satan for 1000 years, whilst Christ and his elect bring the sinful human race back into reconciliation with the God from whom satan separated them. Then these rebels are released for one last test, before God takes us back to his original purpose for us here on this earth….and satan and his demons are destroyed in the lake of fire forever, never to be seen again. (It is not a place of conscious torment.)

Faithful angels do not need possession because they retain their ability to materialize. (though they have not done so to our knowledge since then….but then we could have encountered them unawares as they are, for all intents and purposes…humans.)

The demons need a physical anchor to remain here on this earth…..be it people or material things…..they can attach themselves to anything…even a piece of jewellery or clothing that has been in the possession of a demonized person. Many demons can attach themselves to just one host.

You speak of “Nephilim spirits” but these were human, of flesh, so they have no “spirit“ or ghost that survived their death…..it was their fathers who survived the flood….all air-breathers died.
If the angels who fathered the Nephilim had not dematerialized, what would have happened to them once their host body was dead? Why did they not dive into the water to inhabit the sea creatures and escape the flood? Did you never ask this question?

Jude validates nothing since we do not know where he gleaned his information. He doesn’t say it was from the book of Enoch, now does he? You cannot use suggestions as facts. Jesus could have provided that information….we just don’t know.

If you want to ignore all the scripture provided to you to maintain your faith in the book of Enoch….that is your choice, but I believe you have been misled on this very important point.
Scripture alone corrects you if you allow it to…..all of those things you mentioned are explainable just from the Bible……minus the book of Enoch.

​

1. Jesus cast out unclean spirits — not angels.
Not once did Jesus cast out a fallen angel.
What He drove out were unclean spirits (daimonion) — restless, bodiless entities that beg to possess something.

Luke 8:30–33 – The demons beg Jesus to enter pigs.

Matthew 12:43–45 – They wander in dry places, seeking rest — needing a host.
That is not angelic behavior.

In fact, the Bible shows the opposite when it comes to angels:

Genesis 18–19 – Angels eat with Abraham and are mistaken for men in Sodom.

Hebrews 13:2 – “Some have entertained angels unawares.”
Angels can manifest physically, walk, talk, eat, and appear as humans — they don’t need to possess anyone.

In the Bible, an angel — fallen or faithful — has never possessed a person. Not once.

So why do demons need bodies, but angels don’t?

Because they’re not the same beings.

2. Fallen angels are chained — not roaming.

2 Peter 2:4 – God “cast them into Tartarus and chained them in darkness.”

Jude 1:6 – They’re “kept in eternal chains until the judgment.”

If the angels who sinned are already imprisoned...
And if angels don’t possess people...

3. Then who’s been roaming the earth for the last 5,000 years tormenting humanity?
The answer is in Genesis 6 — and confirmed in 1 Enoch:
The spirits of the Nephilim — cursed, bodiless, and hostile — exactly what Jesus called unclean spirits.

“The sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful, and they took them as wives... The Nephilim were on the earth in those days...” (Genesis 6:2–4)

You keep saying the Nephilim were just "human" — but that’s not what the Bible says.
If a man sleeps with a woman, the result is a human.
But when a divine, interdimensional being — an angel — mates with a woman, how is the result still just a regular person?

That’s not biblical logic — that’s theological gymnastics to avoid the obvious.
The offspring of an angel and a human wouldn’t be a normal human — it would be a hybrid, something unnatural and cursed.

Exactly what Genesis 6 and 1 Enoch 15:8–12 describe — and exactly the kind of beings God wiped out in the Flood.
And according to Enoch, when the Nephilim’s physical bodies were destroyed in the Flood, their spirits were cursed to remain on earth — wandering, bodiless, and unclean.

Restless. Host-seeking. Violent.

Exactly how Jesus describes demons in Matthew 12.

So let’s review:
Angels don’t need bodies.

Fallen angels are chained in darkness (2 Peter 2:4, Jude 1:6).

Human souls don’t roam the earth after death (Hebrews 9:27).

And yet demons are bodiless, wandering, and crave possession — none of which matches the behavior of angels or humans.

Only one category of being fits that profile:
The disembodied spirits of the Nephilim — cursed to remain earthbound until final judgment.

4. Jude directly quotes Enoch — and calls him a prophet.
“Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied…” (Jude 1:14–15)

That’s not vague allusion — it’s word-for-word citation.

That’s not folklore — it’s Holy Spirit–inspired prophecy.

God chose to speak Enoch’s words through Jude. That’s not random. That’s divine inclusion.
We’re not placing Enoch above scripture — we’re saying it harmonizes with it.
And Jude — and God Himself through Jude — affirmed it.

5. You're filling in gaps the Bible doesn’t.
You claim demons are fallen angels “restrained to earth” — but scripture says they’re chained in darkness.

You say Jude’s quote might’ve come from Jesus — but Jude names Enoch as the source.

You’re dismissing Enoch not because it contradicts the Bible — but because it contradicts your tradition.

We’re letting scripture interpret scripture — and when we do, the picture becomes crystal clear.

So again:
If demons aren’t the spirits of the Nephilim… then what are they?
Because the Bible never shows angels begging to enter pigs.
But it does show demons — restless, bodiless spirits — doing exactly that.

The Book of Enoch doesn’t contradict scripture — it just fills in the gaps.
It tells us why these spirits exist, what they are, and why they behave exactly the way Jesus described.

It doesn’t rewrite the Bible — it confirms it, and paints a more detailed picture of what happened and why it matters.


And before anyone on this thread goes there again...

It’s honestly hilarious how some people call Enoch “just a man full of heresy,”
but then turn around and accept the ridiculous Sethite theory — a doctrine invented by actual men with no prophetic authority, no angelic encounter, and no apostolic backing whatsoever.

Zero biblical support. Zero gospel foundation. 0.000. None.

And it was written hundreds of years after Jesus ascended.

Meanwhile, Enoch walked with God — and God took him.
And Jude, writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, quoted him as a prophet — directly, by name.

So let’s be real.

Who are you trusting?

A prophet who walked with God, whose words were divinely quoted by Jude in inspired scripture…

Or some 4th-century bishop with zero prophetic calling, pushing a political theology designed to sanitize Genesis 6 and box in the supernatural?

 

[Aunty Jane]

@The Gospel of Christ ….FWIW….I can see that you are convicted in this, but I have quoted Scripture back to you proving that your ideas regarding the book of Enoch are false and contradictory….this is not my tradition, but reference to what the Bible says about those spirit sons who followed Satan into rebellion.

Satan has “his angels” as is plainly stated In Revelation. (Rev 12:7-12)

Satan himself is a fallen angel…a Cherub to be exact, mentioned in the book of Ezekiel.

This portion of Ezekiel’s writings, in ch 28:12-17 is a dirge or lamentation, directed to the King of Tyre, but it is a veiled description of the one whom this king emulated…

”Son of man, take up a lamentation over the king of Tyre and say to him, ‘Thus says the Lord God, “You had the seal of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. “You were in Eden, the garden of God; Every precious stone was your covering:. . . .And the gold, the workmanship of your settings and sockets, was in you. On the day that you were created they were prepared. “You were the anointed cherub who covers, And I placed you there. You were on the holy mountain of God; You walked in the midst of the stones of fire. “You were blameless in your ways From the day you were created until unrighteousness was found in you. “By the abundance of your trade you were internally filled with violence, And you sinned; therefore I have cast you as profane from the mountain of God. And I have destroyed you, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty; you corrupted your wisdom by reason of your splendor”. (NASB)

It is not hard to see why satan wanted worship…he was magnificent, “full of wisdom and beauty”, (originally) and Ezekiel used the only terms he knew to describe his supernatural beauty…..gold and precious stones….but this Cherub got carried away with himself, and desired what did not rightfully belong to him.

He was a covering Cherub, in a position of responsibility in Eden…a guardian…..and he abused his privilege of service to God, instead, instigating a rebellion in order to snatch the newly created humans away from God so that he would receive their worship for himself by deception.

Notice it says “on the day you were created”, not “on the day you were born” as he would if he was really talking to this human king.

Was the king of Trye in the “garden of Eden”? Did the king “walk on stones of fire”?

We can see that satan is a fallen angel who drew other angels to side with him in rebellion. All of God’s intelligent sons have free will, and so the decision of the angels and the humans, to step outside of God’s commands, was their own. They knew the penalty and their actions were unforgivable.

Revelation speaks of “the original serpent” and “his angels”…..it’s not what you want to believe but it’s true.

The Nephilim didn’t have “ghosts” to depart from their bodies at death, any more than we do as air breathing human “souls”. They died in the flood and their fathers were forced back into the spirit realm where they were put under restraint…..they aren’t in literal chains. You cannot chain spirits…..God simply curtailed their abilities and left them in the dark, spiritually…..lost and wandering about looking to make trouble for anyone they could, before their penalty is carried out.

If we allow Scripture to interpret Scripture, then the rest of the Bible contradicts the book of Enoch. There are no gaps in Scripture, just as there are no contradictions.

I’m sorry that you cannot see what is plainly stated…..

The war in heaven was between “Michael and his angels”….and satan “and his angels”…..angels are spirits (Heb 1:14)…..please note the scriptures in post #74 again. You are arguing with God’s word, using the writings of a book that does not belong in the canon, because it contradicts the writings that do.

 

[Triumph1300]

If Neanderthals existed and if Adam and Eve were the first humans, then Neanderthals came from Adam and Eve and/or their offspring. That seems extraordinarily unlikely.

Is there proof that Neanderthals were human, I don't think so.

They were apes. Everything found about them points towards some kind of ape.

Scientists of course would love to make them out to be human because that suits them better in order to get more subsidies from the government to keep working, it's called "job security"...