Charismatic Bible Studies - 2 Peter 1:5-11

[marks]

If they apostatize they choose to not be saved. Teaching they still are is false.

You are talking about the born again becoming unborn again? Or that they hadn't been born again to begin with, which is what I believe.

It is the same as 2 Peter 1:8 when they stalled and stayed that way.

No, it is not. It says what I've asserted, and if you will look at the passage for yourself you will see it. I challenge you to show your interpretation directly from the text that the branch that does not abide in Christ once had. That's a faulty and unfounded assumption made because of a doctrine that is held, that the saved can become unsaved. So the text is interpreted according to the doctrine, instead of the text informing the doctrine.

We can have a lot of internal resistance towards changing our views on things, but I know for myself, it's worth it, when can correct our mistakes.

Go back 2 Peter, where does it say that stumbling is a permanent condition? Refer to Hebrews 12, and the chastening of the Lord.

Much love!

 

[amigo de christo]

You are talking about the born again becoming unborn again? Or that they hadn't been born again to begin with, which is what I believe.


No, it is not. It says what I've asserted, and if you will look at the passage for yourself you will see it. I challenge you to show your interpretation directly from the text that the branch that does not abide in Christ once had. That's a faulty and unfounded assumption made because of a doctrine that is held, that the saved can become unsaved. So the text is interpreted according to the doctrine, instead of the text informing the doctrine.

We can have a lot of internal resistance towards changing our views on things, but I know for myself, it's worth it, when can correct our mistakes.

Go back 2 Peter, where does it say that stumbling is a permanent condition? Refer to Hebrews 12, and the chastening of the Lord.

Much love!

we need to also be on gaurd big time my friend .
For many are now coming against the true ones who preach TRUE PEACE . You know
the ONLY PEACE a man can truly have . TO BE RECONCILED TO GOD . BY FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST .
too many are attacking those who, like me i might add , KEEP sticking to the one true gospel OF PEACE
the ONE that tells all YE MUST BELIEVE . they going after a fake love friend .
THEY want the broad path LIE . the one that promises peace , BUT ITS END BE DESTRUCTION .
JESUS IS BEING TROD UNDER FOOT , HIS WORDS , THE BIBLE , and this sorry fake pile of dung word they call love
BUT AINT LOVE AND AINT OF GOD , is what is and has been BOUGHT . A LIE my friend .
WELL BY GOD and HIS GRACE and by the Power of all that is HOLY RIGHTEOUS AND TRUE
I am gonna expose it all . Dont weep for me . WEEP for those who bought this lie .
My minds made up friend . ITS JESUS or its all vain .

 

[amigo de christo]

Very good point. Several of the churches were caught up in the very heresy discussed in this study, and yet in the midst of it the Lord was offering them kingship if they would be overcomers, and resist the temptations of this world. I was thinking about this the other day, and we exist in a day and age when so much is on offer. Good food, entertainment, earthly luxuries and pleasures... and it can lead to a spiritually lethargic life. With greater temptations and distractions comes greater risk, but also greater reward to those who overcome.

we need to also be on gaurd big time my friend .
For many are now coming against the true ones who preach TRUE PEACE . You know
the ONLY PEACE a man can truly have . TO BE RECONCILED TO GOD . BY FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST .
too many are attacking those who, like me i might add , KEEP sticking to the one true gospel OF PEACE
the ONE that tells all YE MUST BELIEVE . they going after a fake love friend .
THEY want the broad path LIE . the one that promises peace , BUT ITS END BE DESTRUCTION .
JESUS IS BEING TROD UNDER FOOT , HIS WORDS , THE BIBLE , and this sorry fake pile of dung word they call love
BUT AINT LOVE AND AINT OF GOD , is what is and has been BOUGHT . A LIE my friend .
WELL BY GOD and HIS GRACE and by the Power of all that is HOLY RIGHTEOUS AND TRUE
I am gonna expose it all . Dont weep for me . WEEP for those who bought this lie .
My minds made up friend . ITS JESUS or its all vain .

 

[amigo de christo]

for more INFO on what i meant by WIW . It means WOLVES IN WOOL .

 

[1stCenturyLady]

You are talking about the born again becoming unborn again? Or that they hadn't been born again to begin with, which is what I believe.


No, it is not. It says what I've asserted, and if you will look at the passage for yourself you will see it. I challenge you to show your interpretation directly from the text that the branch that does not abide in Christ once had. That's a faulty and unfounded assumption made because of a doctrine that is held, that the saved can become unsaved. So the text is interpreted according to the doctrine, instead of the text informing the doctrine.

We can have a lot of internal resistance towards changing our views on things, but I know for myself, it's worth it, when can correct our mistakes.

Go back 2 Peter, where does it say that stumbling is a permanent condition? Refer to Hebrews 12, and the chastening of the Lord.

Much love!

Matthew 7:19-23
19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

Being born again is being filled with the Spirit. No one can prophesy and cast out demons in Jesus' name without being born again and filled with the Spirit. But in the end Jesus says to that person, "I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'

Adam was clean when he committed a willful sin against God. We who are born again still have free will and it is important to keep walking in the light and not associate with those who can lead you astray.

 

[rebuilder 454]

This is not salvation., that you stated.
What you are describing... is the place that is to be maintained, as = right faith.......and right faith is understood as....>>"Jesus who saved me, KEEPS me saved".
He does that.........not you., because "God is faithful to complete our salvation".

Salvation, is Christ on The Cross, paying for your sin so that God can give you the eternal spiritual birth.

You dont "walk in that"...... you RECEIVE This........and that is what is known as being "SAVED".... "born again".

So, all of your argument is........ "yes, Jesus started my salvation, but now let me show you all the theology that i dont understand, that im trying to describe as the Charismatics teach it..... that is my idea of how i stay saved, if i do it RIGHT".

And what is that?
That is NOT Faith in Christ.......that is faith in SELF.



Yes, its worse for the believer who is caught up in carnality, then it is to have never had any freedom from it.
Thats true........but once again, this verse is not teaching that you lose your Salvation.
And again, you are teaching that this person has not kept themselves saved... and in fact.... no person keeps themselves saved.
You can no more keep yourself saved, then you could pay for your own sin and give yourself the new birth.

So, you do not understand "THE GIFT of Salvation" as you keep reducing it, to.....>"Let me show everyone what you must DO, to then stay saved"...
= That is "self saving".......LEGALISM.
And you are filled with it.....and will keep on teaching more of your "I MUST DO".. "I MUST NOT DO">. So that 'I I I I I I...me, me ,me me.. can keep trying to save ME".

That is no faith in Christ.
That is BROKEN Faith....>"Fallen from GRACE"



So, on any given Sat or Sunday, if im talking to unbelievers, and i give them the "holy Commandment".......and they hear it and turn away from it AGAIN........like they did the last 12 years.......then its better to not have heard it., because given time....the heart hardens against the Gospel message, so that the Heart loses its ability to hear the Call of God.....and noone knows when that heart can no longer HEAR the Spirit's call.
Once that line is crossed, then there is no remedy.
They will be among the millions who died and went to Hell, and are there now.....thinking....>"oh, i new it was true.....>I knew to believe........why did i keep WAITING" !!!




Your verse is not talking about Eternal Life.
You are falsely putting it in the verse, because you have been taught that Salvation is you working to keep it.
And that is faith in SELF...........not Faith in Christ.

Osas is not full gospel.
Your error in our walk is telling.

Most baptists hear osas every single Sunday from the pulpit.
If you do not examine both sides of the debate , you are not an honest student of the Bible.

I truly can not believe you do not understand the walk with Christ AFTER salvation.

Instead you go to fear default of thinking erroneously that the walk is recieved passively with zero effort of our own.

Salvation first.....THEN THE WALK...WHICH IS CONDITIONAL.
But osas is so paranoid that they default into wildly ascribing salvation to the walk

Osas is simply paranoia.
Obsessed with fear of losing salvation.

You would think osas believers would be secure in their salvation.
But no. It is they that are obsessed in declaring over and over that they can't lose their salvation..

The "sister error", that they invented as a companion, is the idea " well that Ole boy in sin never was saved"....while ironically believing their own sin in no way endangers them of what happened to sinful BELIEVERS in the Seven letters of Jesus.

I Guess Jesus needed a good Ole teaching on osas before he erroneously pointed out sin, it's consequences , and remedy...AHEM...TO THE CHURCH.

You really need to study on the "walk" of the believer and the consequences of sin.


.

 

[Behold]

Osas is not full gospel.

Ive not stated that OSAS is "full gospel".

Your error in our walk is telling.

Eternal Life, is to be born again, and Eternal life is not Temporary.

Most baptists hear osas every single Sunday from the pulpit.

Im not a baptist.
Are you a Pagan, or just some typical forum cult member who does not trust in Christ to keep you saved?

If you do not examine both sides of the debate , you are not an honest student of the Bible.

There are 2 types of Faith a Christian can have, as their "walk of faith".

1.) Real Faith

2.) Broken Faith. ("fallen from Grace")


Real faith understands, believes, and confesses that "Jesus who saved me, keeps me saved".

Broken faith, says......>"Jesus started my salvation, and now i have to perform for God to try to keep from losing my Salvation.""

 

[marks]

Adam was clean when he committed a willful sin against God. We who are born again still have free will and it is important to keep walking in the light and not associate with those who can lead you astray.

Having the ability to choose at least some things - what we eat, wear, live, but not when we live or die, or who is our family, or, we cannot choose to flap our arms and fly to the moon, that is ourside our nature. So "free will" is very limited.

Yes, certainly it is important to have your fellowship in the body of Christ and not unbelievers.

Even so, none of these thing, nor do the Scriptures you've posted, show that the born again may become unborn again.

Comparing ourselves to Adam is fruitless, because we are not given the information that we'd need to make any meaningful comparison. It's appropriation to try to do that. You have to fill in the details that make your case, and that's not valid.

But in the end Jesus says to that person, "I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'

Do you think Jesus said what was not true? That Jesus had actually once known them, and no longer does? No. "I never knew you."

Much love!

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Having the ability to choose at least some things - what we eat, wear, live, but not when we live or die, or who is our family, or, we cannot choose to flap our arms and fly to the moon, that is ourside our nature. So "free will" is very limited.

Yes, certainly it is important to have your fellowship in the body of Christ and not unbelievers.

Even so, none of these thing, nor do the Scriptures you've posted, show that the born again may become unborn again.

Comparing ourselves to Adam is fruitless, because we are not given the information that we'd need to make any meaningful comparison. It's appropriation to try to do that. You have to fill in the details that make your case, and that's not valid.

The people portrayed were once baptized in the Holy Spirit, otherwise they couldn't have done what they claimed.

Do you think Jesus said what was not true? That Jesus had actually once known them, and no longer does? No. "I never knew you."

I've thought about this like you have and came to the conclusion that in the end their name was not written in the Book of Life. It had to have been erased.

 

[marks]

The people portrayed were once baptized in the Holy Spirit, otherwise they couldn't have done what they claimed.

Did they do what they claimed? I just see them making claims of good works, but Jesus said they were actually workers of iniquity. That isn't consistent with being baptized in the Holy Spirit.

Again, I think that you have concluded a doctrine, and then are interpreting this passage accordingly. In this case, you accept the words of the false sinners, but not the word of the Son of God.

I've thought about this like you have and came to the conclusion that in the end their name was not written in the Book of Life. It had to have been erased.

Yes, I believe names are erased from those who are not redeemed. Those who are, their sins are not accounted, and their names are not removed, but remain written from the foundation of the world, exactly as Scripture says.

Much love!

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Did they do what they claimed? I just see them making claims of good works, but Jesus said they were actually workers of iniquity. That isn't consistent with being baptized in the Holy Spirit.

Again, I think that you have concluded a doctrine, and then are interpreting this passage accordingly. In this case, you accept the words of the false sinners, but not the word of the Son of God.

I took them at their word seeing as they were not called liars about those abilities. Like 1 John 1:8 says that those who say they are without sin are liars can only mean they know they willfully sin so saying they don't is a lie. It is not what some churches say that "we will always sin, and to say that we are without sin is a lie." That negates 1 John 3:5 and is a slap across His face, as well as ignorant about the power of the gospel.

Yes, I believe names are erased from those who are not redeemed. Those who are, their sins are not accounted, and their names are not removed, but remain written from the foundation of the world, exactly as Scripture says.

I believe those in the Book of Life are only those who have an "alive" spirit. We are all born with a dead spirit because of the inherent sin nature and why we need to be born again of the Spirit in order to bring to life our spirit which has been cleansed of all unrighteousness. The spiritually alive are the only names in the Book of Life from God's point of view, not man's. I also believe that man does not have two natures. When Jesus took away our desire to commit lawless sins, He took them from our nature, freeing us from a "sin nature" named "the flesh" and "the old man," Romans 6:5-7, Romans 8:9.

 

[marks]

I took them at their word seeing as they were not called liars about those abilities.

Nor did Jesus contradict the rich young ruler who told Jesus he'd kept the commandments from childhood. Jesus just went to the heart of the matter. Jesus declared they were workers of iniquity, not doers of these good works. And Jesus declared that He never knew them. So you have to believe one or the other, and I believe Jesus.

I believe those in the Book of Life are only those who have an "alive" spirit. We are all born with a dead spirit because of the inherent sin nature and why we need to be born again of the Spirit in order to bring to life our spirit which has been cleansed of all unrighteousness. The spiritually alive are the only names in the Book of Life from God's point of view, not man's.

That would be those who's names remain written in the book of life from the foundation of the world. This simple statement lets us know that at the foundation of the world, names were written into a book, but not all names remain written, therefore, those are the ones blotted out.

Much love!

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Nor did Jesus contradict the rich young ruler who told Jesus he'd kept the commandments from childhood. Jesus just went to the heart of the matter. Jesus declared they were workers of iniquity, not doers of these good works. And Jesus declared that He never knew them. So you have to believe one or the other, and I believe Jesus.

I don't see "workers of iniquity" in any of the accounts about the rich young ruler. Also, these are the only teachings in the NT that say the rich cannot enter eternal life if they don't sell all they have and distribute to the poor.

That would be those who's names remain written in the book of life from the foundation of the world. This simple statement lets us know that at the foundation of the world, names were written into a book, but not all names remain written, therefore, those are the ones blotted out.

When comparing Revelation 13:8 and Revelation 17:8, 13 refers to the lamb who is slain from the foundation of the world, which would be foreknowledge that redemption would be needed. And 17 refers to those whose names are not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world. If 13 is foreknowledge couldn't 17 also be foreknowledge?

 

[rebuilder 454]

Ive not stated that OSAS is "full gospel".




Eternal Life, is to be born again, and Eternal life is not Temporary.






Im not a baptist.
Are you a Pagan, or just some typical forum cult member who does not trust in Christ to keep you saved?




There are 2 types of Faith a Christian can have, as their "walk of faith".

1.) Real Faith

2.) Broken Faith. ("fallen from Grace")


Real faith understands, believes, and confesses that "Jesus who saved me, keeps me saved".

Broken faith, says......>"Jesus started my salvation, and now i have to perform for God to try to keep from losing my Salvation.""

It is as if you have completely factored out the walk and relationship with Jesus AFTER SALVATION.

REALLY???
You have no concept of "covenant"
No concept of the bride and groom.????

It is as if you are illustrating a wife with a marriage document holding it up and even wearing it in graphics on your t shirt.

No marriage maintenance, just a fear that someone may get divorced.
When you sit with anyone including the spouse, all you say is " I can never get divorced, and all those divorced people were never married."

I have never in my Christian walk WORIED and OBSESSED over losing my salvation.

But in Baptist churches it is the foundation of every sermon.

If a spouse wants to leave but can't.

Ask yourself what good that is.
Your God is clinical.
Your God has robot wives.
They got saved but want out.
They are stuck with God.

Osas is ridiculous.
God never leaves.
People get saved then leave God.

They have a choice.
They are not robots.

 

[marks]

I don't see "workers of iniquity" in any of the accounts about the rich young ruler. Also, these are the only teachings in the NT that say the rich cannot enter eternal life if they don't sell all they have and distribute to the poor.

That wasn't the point. Jesus didn't argue with either of them. Jesus' silence was not tacit acceptance of their statements. Neither of them.

It doesn't seem to me you are serious about this discussion.

Much love!

 

[1stCenturyLady]

That wasn't the point. Jesus didn't argue with either of them. Jesus' silence was not tacit acceptance of their statements. Neither of them.

It doesn't seem to me you are serious about this discussion.

Much love!

Of course, I am serious. I looked up all the accounts in the gospels and read them, and am just telling you what I noticed for the first time. Remember when the church started everyone sold their assets and pooled it. Everyone was equal. Is that what Jesus is going to judge us on today?

 

[marks]

Of course, I am serious. I looked up all the accounts in the gospels and read them, and am just telling you what I noticed for the first time. By the way, if I said to you what you just said to me in your second sentence, you would have a hissy fit about getting personal. Why is it okay for you to do unto me what you don't want done to you?

If I said to you, "you aren't being serious about this conversation", I'd be out of bounds, it's not up to me to define how serious or not serious you are. Hissy fits aside. LOL! You are the one to say what is inside of you. This is where self-awareness is so important.

If I say to you, "It doesn't seem to me that you are serious about this discussion", I'm telling you something about me, which is my place to do.

This is my perception, and my opinion based on my perception.

Do you see the difference between these two? It's about boundries. You speak about you, and I speak about me. When you start telling me about me, or I start telling you about you, that's where the trouble begins.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Ask yourself what good that is.
Your God is clinical.
Your God has robot wives.
They got saved but want out.
They are stuck with God.

To me that seems absurd. The fact that we are permanently reborn doesn't make us robots, it's what I want. That's what I signed up for! Who wants out?? I don't know anyone who knows Jesus who wants to leave Him. No one wants out. Once you've actually known God's love, who would ever walk away?

Much love!

 

[Ritajanice]

A Born Again can never be un- birthed from the Spirit...they are on that narrow path,because they were chosen by God and predestined to become his child and belong to Jesus... of course we have to walk that path and through walking that path, the Living Spirit who indwell s our spirit, teaches us to stay on that path...of course we can step off the path of life and walk in self, but, God has his children in the palm of his hand ...he will always get us back on that narrow path, because we are his spirit children.we belong to Jesus we are his 100% ..he owns us and we were brought for a price, which was the death and resurrection of Jesus.

If the Father has given those from him to the Son, he will never lose one...Praise God...we are being conformed to become more and more like Jesus from the Living Spirit who indwells our spirit.

NONE CAN EVER PLUCK US OUT OF JESUS HANDS.

John 10:28-30​

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King James Version​

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​

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
30 I and my Father are one

 

[1stCenturyLady]

If I said to you, "you aren't being serious about this conversation", I'd be out of bounds, it's not up to me to define how serious or not serious you are. Hissy fits aside. LOL! You are the one to say what is inside of you. This is where self-awareness is so important.

If I say to you, "It doesn't seem to me that you are serious about this discussion", I'm telling you something about me, which is my place to do.

This is my perception, and my opinion based on my perception.

Do you see the difference between these two? It's about boundries. You speak about you, and I speak about me. When you start telling me about me, or I start telling you about you, that's where the trouble begins.

Much love!

Getting back to our riches, what do you think about seeking prosperity? Will they be kept out of heaven? Remember when the church started everyone sold their assets and pooled it. Everyone was equal. Is that what Jesus is going to judge us on today?