Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so a 1000 yr reign on this earth is false

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WPM

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I'm surprised you are asking this. Do you not see what happened at Pentecost as being unprecedented? You think the Holy Spirit was poured out and came to dwell in people before that?

I don't believe that the OT saints were regenerated in the same way that believers have been since the day of Pentecost. Why would Jesus have said this if this was something that had already been happening in OT times?

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. 18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

Wouldn't they have already had the Holy Spirit dwelling in them if that was something that was already happening in OT times? Yet, Jesus talked about it as something that had not yet happened and would happen in the future. And, it happened for them on the day of Pentecost.

What is your understanding of Jeremiah 31:34 if you don't think it relates to the Holy Spirit coming to dwell in people during NT times?

Jeremiah 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

We know that this was fulfilled in relation to the new covenant because of what is written in Hebrews 8:6-13, right? So, what is your understanding of how it was fulfilled?
You didn't answer my question: "but how were the OT saints regenerated without the internal work of the Spirit?"

So the Spirit only entered the saints at Pentecost? The Church did not begin then, began at the beginning. The NT Church did not begin then, it began after cross. Why did Jesus tell Nicodemus to be born again? Surely this was before the cross?
 

CadyandZoe

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I don't reply to your posts for your benefit, but for the benefit of others who might be following along and may be confused by your nonsense. So, no, I don't take some of your posts seriously such as that one. And, I have offered an answer by showing you who God's holy people are and you refuse to accept it.
You were doing well until you gave up. I know that it must be hard for you. Take your time.
 
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CadyandZoe

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Is that all citizens, both righteous and unrighteous?
No. Not all citizens. Remember what Malachi said? For those who fear the Lord, a sun of righteousness will rise with healing in its wings. The arrogant, evil ones will burn up in the fires.
And what is your definition of "fall" in Amos 9:9?
Can't be found by God.
 

CadyandZoe

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It is very, very unlikely that there were any groups in the Roman Empire outside of Samaria who still identified themselves as "Ephraim" in the 1st century - and even if there were,​
Peter wrote to them. So not only did they know about themselves but Peter knew about them.
PAUL INCLUDED GENTILES IN THE FULFILLMENT OF THE PROPHECY IN HOSEA TALKING ABOUT THOSE WHO WERE NOT HIS PEOPLE BEING CALLED THE SONS OF THE LIVING GOD (ROMANS 9).
Paul was talking about the same people that Peter was.
(3) There was a lot of persecution of Christians going on in the first century. You cannot assume that Gentile Christians were never forced to flee their homes and had become sojourners scattered in the region identified by Peter.
I didn't assume anything. Paul is the apostle to the Gentiles; Peter is the Apostle to his kinsmen. Paul refers to them as "the circumcised."

Galatians 2:7-10 But on the contrary, seeing that I had been entrusted with the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been to the circumcised (for He who effectually worked for Peter in his apostleship to the circumcised effectually worked for me also to the Gentiles), and recognizing the grace that had been given to me, James and Cephas and John, who were reputed to be pillars, gave to me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, so that we might go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised. They only asked us to remember the poor—the very thing I also was eager to do.

Peter explicitly addresses his letter to the diaspora.
 

CadyandZoe

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What? He came to Israel. He made the covenant with His redeemed. Those who had eyes to see (God's elect, true Israel - the holy remnant) got it. We Gentiles have been grafted into believing Israel. Blind (unbelieving) Israel are apostate, they are of their father the devil, and destined for hell.
Gentiles were not grafted into Israel. Gentiles were grafted into the promises God made to the Patriarchs. We share the same faith as our father Abraham. (See also Galatians 3:6-9)

Romans 4:1-2 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, has found? For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”

The basis of salvation predates the Covenant at Mt. Sinai. We are saved on the basis of a promise; we are grafted into a promise.

Galatians 3:16-18 Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as referring to many, but rather to one, “And to your seed,” that is, Christ. What I am saying is this: the Law, which came four hundred and thirty years later, does not invalidate a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to nullify the promise. For if the inheritance is based on law, it is no longer based on a promise; but God has granted it to Abraham by means of a promise.

We are not grafted onto Israel, a nation established four hundred and thirty years after God's promise to Abraham. We are grafted onto God's promise to Abraham.
 

CadyandZoe

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Where does the soul/spirit go?
Why would you conclude that it goes somewhere? Have you never read . . .

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.

Paul says that the dead in Christ will rise. They are asleep in the grave now but will rise from it then.

Jesus also spoke of the dead in the same way.

Luke 8:51-53 When He came to the house, He did not allow anyone to enter with Him, except Peter and John and James, and the girl’s father and mother. Now they were all weeping and lamenting for her; but He said, “Stop weeping, for she has not died, but is asleep.” And they began laughing at Him, knowing that she had died.

In Jesus' view, when a person dies, they aren't "dead," they are "asleep." He explains himself later when he comforts Mary and Martha.

John 11:24-26 Martha said to Him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection on the last day.” Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies, and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?”​
 

Doug

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Reconciliation to what or who?
[Eze 45:20 KJV] 20 And so thou shalt do the seventh [day] of the month for every one that erreth, and for [him that is] simple: so shall ye reconcile the house.
the resumption of sacrifice in the millennium
 

WPM

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Yes, Paradise is no longer where it was, separated from God. This was at the end of the old and beginning of the NC. Next we read of Paradise is in Heaven with God in the New Heaven.

The angels minister to those who will inherit salvation. So, they were there taking care of all the OT saints who died and were in Paradise awaiting Christ to come for them.
Are you saying Abrahams bosom was paradise?
 

WPM

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Yes, of course, it was effective for some of the Israelites. Jeremiah is predicting a day when the Holy Spirit will indwell the entire nation after ungodliness has been removed from Jacob.

I know you are. But Jeremiah is not talking about the Israelites in general. He is talking about the nation of Israel.

Jeremiah is talking about corporate salvation.

Romans 11:25-29 tells us: “For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.”

This is a passage that has confused some Christians over the years. The reason for this revolves around the phrase “all Israel shall be saved.” There are many that deduce corporate salvation for natural Israel from this simple expression. This emanates specifically from within the Premillennialist camp.

But does this passage teach that every single Jew in the future will put their trust in Jesus Christ?

One just has to study Romans 9–11 carefully to see that Paul is actually talking about two Israel’s in his discourse – one natural and the other spiritual, one elect and the other blinded, one true and the other apostate. To miss this is to miss the whole thrust of his teaching.

Dispensationalists fail to notice (or choose to ignore) Paul introductory comments to his thesis in Romans 9:6-13. There, Paul identifies who “all Israel” is: For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, they which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed. For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son. And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac; (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth. It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.”

He is talking here about an enlightened segment within the overall congregation of natural Israel that know Christ and are redeemed of God. Basically, there is a faithful remnant amongst Israel that have experienced salvation. This is supported by comparing Romans 11:26 “all Israel shall be saved” (future, passive, indicative) to Romans 9:27, which says, “a remnant shall be saved” (future, passive, indicative).

Is Paul contradicting himself with these two statements? Of course not. He is saying the same thing. Let us be absolutely assured: Paul is definitely not opposing himself, neither is the Holy Spirit, who inspired him to pen this, confused. He is in no way teaching corporate salvation in Romans 11:25-29, as some would suggest, or else he would be reversing everything he has just taught in the preceding verses and chapters of this book (and his other Epistles) in regard to an elect remnant.

These parallel statements correspond with each other and represent the same truth regarding the same company. Not all Israelies are saved, only the election (the chosen).

Contrary to what some end-time “experts” think, salvation was never secured on the grounds of race; it was always by grace through faith. Moreover, the Gospel opportunity in the New Testament is always shown to be open to all nationalities equally; this includes natural Israel.

When one digs a little deeper and analyzes the Premillennial reasoning further one discovers additional inconsistencies and contradictions in their reasoning. Whilst they are adamant that Romans 11:26 should be understood as teaching corporate salvation for every single Jew in Israel in the future, they are unwilling to apply the same standard to the verse before in Romans 11:25 which is speaking about the Gentiles: “the fulness (or full amount) of the Gentiles be come in.” They rightly understand this to be applying to a faithful segment of the Gentiles.

Applying the same reasoning in regard to Romans 11:26 to Romans 11:25 would of course render them universalists. It would suggest every single Gentile would be saved before the end. This is the absurdity that Premillennialism produces.

Of course, both statements are speaking about a remnant from amongst the overall natural whole. But Premillennial bias prevents them from having a consistent and objective mode of interpretation.
 
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covenantee

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No. Not all citizens. Remember what Malachi said? For those who fear the Lord, a sun of righteousness will rise with healing in its wings. The arrogant, evil ones will burn up in the fires.

Can't be found by God.
Thanks for confirming what I and others have been saying all along.

Only the righteous are saved from falling.
 
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WPM

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Jeremiah is talking about a corporate experience where they all receive Christ.

No. Jeremiah's prophecy is multifaceted. Only one of the facets has been fulfilled. That is, the cross of Christ is the forgiveness of sins for all those who believe, whether Jew or Gentile. Jeremiah predicts that every Israelite citizen will "know the Lord".

Romans 11:26 says, all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob.”

This reference is significantly based upon, and taken from Isaiah 59. Many Dispensationalists will highlight the last part of our reading, which promises unbroken favor upon ethnic Israelites, but seem miss, ignore or conveniently overlook the actually company in view. It is not all natural Israelites. It is not an unqualified statement. Scripture is careful to attribute eternal favor to only those that are redeemed (whether Jew or Gentile). The reading states: “And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD.” “Sion” in reference to “Jacob” relates to the elect – spiritual Israel. Christ the Messiah (the deliverer) will come out from among true Israel, not natural Israel (Jacob).

Of course, the Pharisees could not grasp this. Their fixation was with earthly real estate. Their fixation was in racial dominance. Their focus was carnal and earthly. This ran the complete opposite to the message of Jesus Christ, who came with a heavenly spiritual message. That is why the Jews so vehemently opposed Him. Premillennialists in our day make the same mistake of the Pharisees in regard to earthly real estate and racial dominance. They miss the whole nature and focus of His ministry.
 
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Scott Downey

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Are you saying Abrahams bosom was paradise?
I get that from when Jesus tells the thief on the cross with Him, this


Luke 23:43
And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”

Ask yourself this, on the day Christ died, where did he go?

Christ does not ascend to the Father into Heaven until after His resurrection.

Paradise was not in heaven. It must have been Abraham's bosum. Christ descended into the lower parts of the earth at His death, into hades, the place of the dead.
God did not leave Christ there in Hades as Peter says of Him in Acts