Limited atonement !

[brightfame52]

I understand your point, but I'm afraid it only presents a partial perspective on the concept of atonement. While I acknowledge that Jesus Christ bestowed upon us a significant gift, it raises the question: What precisely is that gift? I believe it’s essential to explore its meaning and implications in greater depth.

Do what you need to do, dont tell me what to do, i study for myself and present the fruit thereof, you either agree or you dont. I know Im established in the atonement and will continue to be established in it, and witness to it

 

[brightfame52]

Are you purposely disagreeing with scripture, or you did not know these texts existed that deny limited atonement?

You are, you reject limited atonement, that's what scripture teaches. Every single verse you find about the atonement, with the words all, world, whole world, everyone, whosoever and on and on, is about the elect

 

[brightfame52]

What kind of "reply" is that?? Your one liners do you no justice.
Maybe I should pose it as a question?
IF your doctrine is correct, WHY did Paul write that he himself could be a castaway?

I dont see how that has anything to do with limited atonement. Dont expect me to go out of my way to explain all the sound bites you can muster up, you so far have rejected everything I have taken time to explain.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Maybe you could help Brightfame52 in his quest to explain limited atonement. He has not produced a single piece of evidence that states explains or even infers limited atonement.
Jesus interceding on a believers behalf has nothing to do with His atonement. His atonement makes it possible for Him to intercede for us, but does not explain the atonement.

I wouldn't put it that way. The atonement is a crucial aspect of Jesus' intercession on behalf of believers. According to Paul's word on the subject, God was pleased to hear Jesus' petition on our behalf because of Jesus' righteousness and his obedience even unto death. The Atonement Jesus offered God was his own blood taken into the heavenly temple, which perfected the conscience of the believer.

The concept that many Christians miss is the idea that Jesus himself will choose who will be granted eternal life. Unless Jesus knows me, he says, I will not be granted eternal life. (Matthew 7:23) The Father has given certain people to his son Jesus and all that the Father has given to him will be raised. (John 6, and John 10) Jesus told the crowds that outward actions, even impressive ones like miracles or preaching, are not enough if they are not accompanied by a true relationship with Jesus and obedience to God's will. (Matthew 7)

More could be said but at my age I have limited energy. :) My apologies.

 

[Runningman]

@Runningman



I know you didnt, thats obvious to me, and it appears you dont study it either, you pick out sound bites and say here, explain this.

I showed you some "sound bites" from the Bible that are not compatible with limited atonement. Again, I didn't write the Bible. I am simply showing you what it says for your benefit. I believe this is outreach for you at this point. Do you want to know the true gospel or not?

 

[Rightglory]

You are, you reject limited atonement, that's what scripture teaches. Every single verse you find about the atonement, with the words all, world, whole world, everyone, whosoever and on and on, is about the elect

Right. Why is it that limited atonement was never even heard about until the 16 century and then only one person developed the view, namely Calvin. No other Protestant denominations outside of reformed or some derivative thereof hold such a view. Hardly the Gospel that the Holy Spirit promised to guard and protect since the Apostles.
And given that you don't seem to be able to present any evidence of limited atonement aside from your assertions, one liners with no support.

 

[Rightglory]

I wouldn't put it that way. The atonement is a crucial aspect of Jesus' intercession on behalf of believers. According to Paul's word on the subject, God was pleased to hear Jesus' petition on our behalf because of Jesus' righteousness and his obedience even unto death. The Atonement Jesus offered God was his own blood taken into the heavenly temple, which perfected the conscience of the believer.

Christ's reconciled the world to God by His death and resurrection. That has nothing to do specifically with believers. It had to do with the sin of the world. I John 2:2. His sacrifice atoned for the sin of the world. It makes it possible that Christ, now as High Priest can forgive sin when we confess our sin. There is no unilateral forgiveness. It is a mutual joining of Christ and a person who answers His call to come.
The Holy Spirit is in this world calling all men to repentence. This phrase of itself condemns the idea of limited atonement.

The concept that many Christians miss is the idea that Jesus himself will choose who will be granted eternal life.

Depends on whose eternal life one is referencing. By His resurrection by virtue of His Incarnation, He will raise all men to an eternal existence. another reason limited atonement is an impossibility.
Now, those that see and believe will be granted eternal life with Him if they remain faithful. I Pet 1:3-5
If you are referencing those who don't believe, they will be judged also and suffer the second death, which is spiritual separation from God for an eternity.

Unless Jesus knows me, he says, I will not be granted eternal life. (Matthew 7:23)

Those that believed and were faithful on all things He will grant eternal life.

The Father has given certain people to his son Jesus and all that the Father has given to him will be raised. (John 6, and John 10)

The Father gave all things to Christ. Col 1:20, Then corresponding texts is John 10:39 which states that Christ will raise all things, He will lose none.
Then vs 40 says, those that believe and see, He will also raise them up and give them everlasting life.
These three texts condemns outright the whole idea that there is such a thing as a limited atonement.
Another you should read is I Cor 15:12-22. That is universal redemption, reconciliation of all things
that Col 1: 20, II Cor 5:18-19 are speaking about.
You can also check Rom 5:12, vs 18 also spells out universal fall of man and universal redemption of man.

 

[ScottA]

I didn't write the Bible so it isn't my claim. If Scripture is authoritative then the below verses are standalone prooftexts against limited atonement, contrary to your indefensible one-liner that they both support limited atonement. [sic]

So again, care to point out where limited atonement is described or explained in the below verses or anywhere else in the Bible? All you need to do is quote the verse(s).

2 Corinthians 5
14For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that One died for all, therefore all died. 15And He died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves, but for Him who died for them and was raised again.

Titus 2
11For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to everyone.

Runningman,

The greater truth of God's word, is given "precept upon precept, line upon line, here a little there a little." Which is to say that all of scripture is not complete by any one verse--or seemingly even several, but must be reconciled with all of scripture. In 2 Corinthians 5: 14 Paul was referring to "we who are alive and remain" (1 Thessalonians 4:15). Meaning, the context is limited to those made "alive" by the spirit of God.

As for Titus 2:11, it is required that we reconcile it with: "many are called but few chosen" (Matthew 20:16).

But do not consider it error to agree with the fact that God "is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance" (2 Peter 3:9)-- Your heart is in the right place, even if your understanding of this matter is not.

 

[Ritajanice]

Here is another interesting commentary, which imo means, only those who have had their spirit birthed into the Spirit of Christ...which means “ Born Of The Spirit “..will be saved from eternal damnation.

Just as his word says, you must be Born Again to see the Kingdom Of God.

Everyone understands Born Of The Spirit differently.....I don’t understand “ calling” I wasn’t called I was birthed....so in that respect imo limited atonement ....stands.....only God can birth one’s spirit...permanently into his....what power has man / woman got to do that supernatural act?


Short commentary..

Many are invited or called via the general call of the gospel, which is presented through the Bible, churches, missionaries, and any type of evangelism. Few are chosen means that, of those invited, only the elect (true followers of Jesus) will remain at the wedding feast in the kingdom of God.


What does a general call mean?.....

By the way, I’m not speaking here under God’s authority...I speaking from the heart...asking questions and trying to understand where others are coming from.

The Spirit imo limits those who are Born Again by the power of His Spirit......therefore limited atonement is a fact...imo.

There is nowhere in scripture that says ,one can choose to be birthed by the Spirit Of God...that is a supernatural gift/ act that only God can choose to do.

Can someone please explain what the “ general call” means please?

I understand “ calling” as doing the will of God...which I believe I have been called to do..imo.

My spirit is what came Alive in the Spirit of Christ ,when it was birthed...therefore my old body is dead ....it’s no longer I who lives, it’s Christ in me who lives .

Being conformed into his image, bearing the Spirit fruit.....anyway I will leave it there for now...

 

[Ritajanice]

The concept that many Christians miss is the idea that Jesus himself will choose who will be granted eternal life. Unless Jesus knows me, he says, I will not be granted eternal life. (Matthew 7:23) The Father has given certain people to his son Jesus and all that the Father has given to him will be raised. (John 6, and John 10) Jesus told the crowds that outward actions, even impressive ones like miracles or preaching, are not enough if they are not accompanied by a true relationship with Jesus and obedience to God's will. (Matthew 7

Amen!


Only those who are Born Of The Spirit have a relationship with God/ Jesus......because they have been supernaturally birthed, by the Living Spirit....our spirit has been “ permanently “ birthed into the Spirit of God/Jesus....

We communicate with God via our spirit....when it becomes Born Again of imperishable seed......that seed is the Living Spirit who permanently lives/ indwells our spirit.

Hence....Flesh gives birth to flesh =...that is permanent, you can’t go back into your mothers womb once she’s given birth.

Same with Spirit gives birth to spirit = you can’t be un - birthed spiritually from the Spirit Of God....once you know that your spirit is Born Again.....it’s permanent...we belong to the Spirit Of God , to use exactly as we were chosen and predestined to be used.....for his purpose, plan...to bring all GLORY to the POWER of the Spirit....

A Born Again represents God....we don’t represent ourselves....we live, breath, and sleep God!....The Spirit is at work in our hearts/ spirit ...the moment it was birthed into Christ Spirit.

 

[brightfame52]

There are ample amount of scripture that indicate that the extent of Christs Redemptive Death was limited to Gods Elect/Sheep !

Matt 20:28

28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

The many are the chosen seed of God that Isaiah mentions Isa 53:10-11

10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities. 9

 

[brightfame52]

I showed you some "sound bites" from the Bible that are not compatible with limited atonement. Again, I didn't write the Bible. I am simply showing you what it says for your benefit. I believe this is outreach for you at this point. Do you want to know the true gospel or not?

I haven't seen anything you posted scripturally that's not compatible with limited atonement, its not even possible in fact

 

[brightfame52]

Right. Why is it that limited atonement was never even heard about until the 16 century and then only one person developed the view, namely Calvin. No other Protestant denominations outside of reformed or some derivative thereof hold such a view. Hardly the Gospel that the Holy Spirit promised to guard and protect since the Apostles.
And given that you don't seem to be able to present any evidence of limited atonement aside from your assertions, one liners with no support.

I dont know what you talking about. What you say sounds like something from the planet pluto or something

 

[Nancy]

I dont see how that has anything to do with limited atonement. Dont expect me to go out of my way to explain all the sound bites you can muster up, you so far have rejected everything I have taken time to explain.

Like I expected, you never give a sound answer. Always skirting the issue. I'm done here.
God be with you.

 

[Behold]

I haven't seen anything you posted scripturally that's not compatible with limited atonement, its not even possible in fact

The Cross of Christ is not "compatible" with any "doctrine of devils" that teaches that Jesus's Sacrifice is not John 3:16....."for the World".. and "whosoever" will believe.

So, Hyper-Calvinism.... the 5 points, TULIP>.....is a Cross Rejecting LIE that is spread by people who are very deceived.

See, "CHRISTians" lead you to JESUS.
Whereas lying Calvinists' come to a "Christian forum" and try to lead you to Calvin and His Theology, that started with Him, and was evolved by other demon possessed Calvinists.
Mods should not allow this to happen...Not EVER.

See Reader, JESUS is not a Calvinst......and Jesus would never lead you to this Devil's theology....... whereas a "5 point, hyper calvinists' will try to take you into Calvin's deceptions, and ruin your faith for life.
Its what they do on Forums...Its their Ministry...........which is to try to deceive you with not just Calvin's teaching......but the evolved version of it.........the "Hyper Calvinism"

 

[ScottA]

Can someone please explain what the “ general call” means please?

The general call, is not done by God's servants, but by God Himself, within. All are first brought forth by the miracle of life without excuse, and made to walk in this world with eyes and ears and senses well beyond those, before the God-inspired witness of all creation, that all may know there is a God. Which then, if there is any doubt, looking to the right or to the left, our fellows give confirmation of what is first within us to believe, whether good or evil, whether of God or of the world. And so the final witness is Christ, who first gave witness and in whom "it is finished."

 

[Ritajanice]

The general call, is not done by God's servants, but by God Himself, within. All are first brought forth by the miracle of life without excuse, and made to walk in this world with eyes and ears and senses well beyond those, before the God-inspired witness of all creation, that all may know there is a God. Which then, if there is any doubt, looking to the right or to the left, our fellows give confirmation of what is first within us to believe, whether good or evil, whether of God or of the world. And so the final witness is Christ, who first gave witness and in whom "it is finished."

With respect...this doesn’t resonate with my spirit...I’m not saying that you are wrong.

I’m just saying that is not how I was Born Of The Spirit...the way I was Born Of The Spirit was how Jesus explains it to Nicodemas..

No Bible was anywhere is sight...regarding my rebirth...Spirit gives birth to spirit.= came by supernatural, divine,heart revelation.

 

[ScottA]

With respect...this doesn’t resonate with my spirit...I’m not saying that you are wrong.

I’m just saying that is not how I was Born Of The Spirit...the way I was Born Of The Spirit was how Jesus explains it to Nicodemas..

No Bible was anywhere is sight...regarding my rebirth...Spirit gives birth to spirit.= came by supernatural, divine,heart revelation.

I said it comes from God, and you have said it comes from God. What is the problem?

 

[Ritajanice]

I said it comes from God, and you have said it comes from God. What is the problem?

There is no problem...I just voiced?

 

[brightfame52]

Like I expected, you never give a sound answer. Always skirting the issue. I'm done here.
God be with you.

Dont expect me to go out of my way to explain all the sound bites you can muster up,