ScottA
Well-Known Member
People confuse the idea of "limited atonement" as being either 1) limited at first with each individual, or 2) as limited by only part of all those who are born being saved.
I addressed both.
Limited atonement !
- Thread starter brightfame52
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I addressed both.
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
I agree with you here. Even so, the Reformed view of the atonement is mistaken, and therefore, the doctrine of limited atonement is mistaken.
Runningman
Active Member
Don't know how it could be any clearer. Maybe you just need to see it more.
2 Corinthians 5
14For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that One died for all, therefore all died. 15And He died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves, but for Him who died for them and was raised again.
Titus 2
11For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to everyone.
Runningman
Active Member
Runningman
Active Member
You made a claim, I provided Scripture that is explicitly contrary to your claim, you replied with a single-sentence denial, now I want your explanation. I don't have a burden of proof here unless you want me to copy and paste the same verses, again, that already explicitly make my point for me.
"The Extent of Christ's Absolute Satisfaction is established by the inseparable connection between the gift of Christ and the gift of the Holy Spirit as these two gifts, the most excellent which God has bestowed on us, are always in Scripture joined together as cause and effect, they must be of equal extent and go together; so that the Son is not given to acquire salvation for any others than those to whom the Spirit was given to apply the salvation procured. No reason can be assigned why the gift of the Son should be more extensive than the gift of the Holy Spirit. It is plain that the Holy Spirit is given to none but the elect.." - Francis Turretin
Scripture to collaborate this blessed truth
Gal 3:13-14
13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
Gal 4:4-6
4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
Those who Christ died for with Him God gives all things Rom 8:32
32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
Rom 5:5
5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us. 9
Scripture to collaborate this blessed truth
Gal 3:13-14
13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
Gal 4:4-6
4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
Those who Christ died for with Him God gives all things Rom 8:32
32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
Rom 5:5
5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us. 9
You made the claim as to say Christ died for all mankind[without explanation], but He didnt. Now I started this thread explaining whyHe didnt, and have given much detail, you have given nothing but sound bites.
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
What if I'm not mistaken?
Ask yourself these questions for starters. When does the atonement take place? When does the propitiation take place?
Im established in those matters, that's why I started this thread. Post 430 do you understand it
Runningman
Active Member
I didn't write the Bible so it isn't my claim. If Scripture is authoritative then the below verses are standalone prooftexts against limited atonement, contrary to your indefensible one-liner that they both support limited atonement. [sic]
So again, care to point out where limited atonement is described or explained in the below verses or anywhere else in the Bible? All you need to do is quote the verse(s).
2 Corinthians 5
14For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that One died for all, therefore all died. 15And He died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves, but for Him who died for them and was raised again.
Titus 2
11For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to everyone.
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
I understand your point, but I'm afraid it only presents a partial perspective on the concept of atonement. While I acknowledge that Jesus Christ bestowed upon us a significant gift, it raises the question: What precisely is that gift? I believe it’s essential to explore its meaning and implications in greater depth.
Are you purposely disagreeing with scripture, or you did not know these texts existed that deny limited atonement?
What kind of "reply" is that?? Your one liners do you no justice.
Maybe I should pose it as a question?
IF your doctrine is correct, WHY did Paul write that he himself could be a castaway?
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
The Bible teaches limited atonement, rightly understood. That is, once we understand the concept of limited atonement, propitiation, and Jesus' authority to intercede on our behalf, we understand that Jesus only intercedes for the elect.
Maybe you could help Brightfame52 in his quest to explain limited atonement. He has not produced a single piece of evidence that states explains or even infers limited atonement.
Jesus interceding on a believers behalf has nothing to do with His atonement. His atonement makes it possible for Him to intercede for us, but does not explain the atonement.
@Runningman
I know you didnt, thats obvious to me, and it appears you dont study it either, you pick out sound bites and say here, explain this.
I know you didnt, thats obvious to me, and it appears you dont study it either, you pick out sound bites and say here, explain this.
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