Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so a 1000 yr reign on this earth is false

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Scott Downey

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  1. John 18:36

    Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here.”

Logically a king and His servants fight for His kingdom.

No Jesus will not be reigning as a king on this earth, not then, not now or in the future.

Jesus received a heavenly kingdom. Some future day, the kingdoms of this world will become the kingdom of God by inheritance and we then have the new earth and the new heaven, but that is not this day yet, nor after any 1000 years longer of a millennial current earthly reign of Christ.

The heathen are still raging and fighting against the Father and the Son.
The only time they can no longer fight is when we get new earth and new heaven in which dwells righteousness.
Even pre-mills admit there is evil rebellion of the wicked and Satan during their earthly millennial reign.

Psalm 2
.
Why do the [a]nations [b]rage,
And the people plot a [c]vain thing?
2 The kings of the earth set themselves,
And the rulers take counsel together,
Against the Lord and against His Anointed,[d] saying,
3 “Let us break Their bonds in pieces
And cast away Their cords from us.”
4 He who sits in the heavens shall laugh;
The Lord shall hold them in derision.
5 Then He shall speak to them in His wrath,
And distress them in His deep displeasure:
6 “Yet I have [e]set My King
[f]On My holy hill of Zion.”
7 “I will declare the [g]decree:
The Lord has said to Me,
‘You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You.
8 Ask of Me, and I will give You
The nations for Your inheritance,
And the ends of the earth for Your possession.


9 You shall [h]break them with a rod of iron;
You shall dash them to pieces like a potter’s vessel.’ ”

v9, they are slain

Luke 19

11 Now as they heard these things, He spoke another parable, because He was near Jerusalem and because they thought the kingdom of God would appear immediately.

12 Therefore He said: “A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom and to return.


13 So he called ten of his servants, delivered to them ten [e]minas, and said to them, ‘Do business till I come.’

14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a delegation after him, saying, ‘We will not have this man to reign over us.’

15 “And so it was that when he returned, having received the kingdom, he then commanded these servants, to whom he had given the money, to be called to him, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading. 16 Then came the first, saying, ‘Master, your mina has earned ten minas.’ 17 And he said to him, ‘Well done, good servant; because you were faithful in a very little, have authority over ten cities.’ 18 And the second came, saying, ‘Master, your mina has earned five minas.’ 19 Likewise he said to him, ‘You also be over five cities.’

20 “Then another came, saying, ‘Master, here is your mina, which I have kept put away in a handkerchief. 21 For I feared you, because you are [f]an austere man. You collect what you did not deposit, and reap what you did not sow.’ 22 And he said to him, ‘Out of your own mouth I will judge you, you wicked servant. You knew that I was an austere man, collecting what I did not deposit and reaping what I did not sow. 23 Why then did you not put my money in the bank, that at my coming I might have collected it with interest?’

24 “And he said to those who stood by, ‘Take the mina from him, and give it to him who has ten minas.’ 25 (But they said to him, ‘Master, he has ten minas.’) 26 ‘For I say to you, that to everyone who has will be given; and from him who does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him.

27 But bring here those enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, and slay them before me.’ ”
 

Spiritual Israelite

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  1. John 18:36

    Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here.”

Logically a king and His servants fight for His kingdom.

No Jesus will not be reigning as a king on this earth, not then, not now or in the future.

Jesus received a heavenly kingdom. Some future day, the kingdoms of this world will become the kingdom of God by inheritance and we then have the new earth and the new heaven, but that is not this day yet, nor after any 1000 years longer of a millennial current earthly reign of Christ.

The heathen are still raging and fighting against the Father and the Son.
The only time they can no longer fight is when we get new earth and new heaven in which dwells righteousness.
Even pre-mills admit there is evil rebellion of the wicked and Satan during their earthly millennial reign.

Psalm 2
.
Why do the [a]nations [b]rage,
And the people plot a [c]vain thing?
2 The kings of the earth set themselves,
And the rulers take counsel together,
Against the Lord and against His Anointed,[d] saying,
3 “Let us break Their bonds in pieces
And cast away Their cords from us.”
4 He who sits in the heavens shall laugh;
The Lord shall hold them in derision.
5 Then He shall speak to them in His wrath,
And distress them in His deep displeasure:
6 “Yet I have [e]set My King
[f]On My holy hill of Zion.”
7 “I will declare the [g]decree:
The Lord has said to Me,
‘You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You.
8 Ask of Me, and I will give You
The nations for Your inheritance,
And the ends of the earth for Your possession.


9 You shall [h]break them with a rod of iron;
You shall dash them to pieces like a potter’s vessel.’ ”

v9, they are slain

Luke 19

11 Now as they heard these things, He spoke another parable, because He was near Jerusalem and because they thought the kingdom of God would appear immediately.

12 Therefore He said: “A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom and to return.

13 So he called ten of his servants, delivered to them ten [e]minas, and said to them, ‘Do business till I come.’

14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a delegation after him, saying, ‘We will not have this man to reign over us.’

15 “And so it was that when he returned, having received the kingdom, he then commanded these servants, to whom he had given the money, to be called to him, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading. 16 Then came the first, saying, ‘Master, your mina has earned ten minas.’ 17 And he said to him, ‘Well done, good servant; because you were faithful in a very little, have authority over ten cities.’ 18 And the second came, saying, ‘Master, your mina has earned five minas.’ 19 Likewise he said to him, ‘You also be over five cities.’

20 “Then another came, saying, ‘Master, here is your mina, which I have kept put away in a handkerchief. 21 For I feared you, because you are [f]an austere man. You collect what you did not deposit, and reap what you did not sow.’ 22 And he said to him, ‘Out of your own mouth I will judge you, you wicked servant. You knew that I was an austere man, collecting what I did not deposit and reaping what I did not sow. 23 Why then did you not put my money in the bank, that at my coming I might have collected it with interest?’

24 “And he said to those who stood by, ‘Take the mina from him, and give it to him who has ten minas.’ 25 (But they said to him, ‘Master, he has ten minas.’) 26 ‘For I say to you, that to everyone who has will be given; and from him who does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him.

27 But bring here those enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, and slay them before me.’ ”
Right. We are in His kingdom now and He reigns now.

Colossians 1:12 and giving joyful thanks to the Father, who has qualified you to share in the inheritance of his holy people in the kingdom of light. 13 For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves,

Nowhere did Jesus ever say that His kingdom would be an earthly one. Instead, scripture says He will hand over the kingdom He rules over now to the Father at His second coming at the end of the age at which point the eternal new heavens and new earth will be ushered in.

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. 24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.

Matthew 13:40 “As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. 41 The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. 42 They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Whoever has ears, let them hear.
 

Zao is life

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  1. John 18:36

    Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here.”
Your post proves once again only that Amillennialism actually has the effect of passively training the minds of its adherents to see only half of biblical scripture half the time, for example:

Amillennialists don't see the words "of this present time [nyn] in the verses below:

"But of this present time [nyn] we do not yet see all things placed under Christ's feet, but (what we do see) is Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man." (Hebrews 2:8); and

"Of this present time [nyn] is my Kingdom not of this world [o kosmos]" (John 18:36).

You didn't mention the above half of what Jesus said, because you can't see it.

Because Amillennialism (without them even realizing it) trains the minds of its adherents to only see half of scripture half the time, they fail to see the half that is telling us that even though all things have already been placed under Christ's feet, we do not yet see it.

So they will also fail to see why Revelation 11:15 is telling us that Christ's reign over the kingdoms of this world [o kosmos] will commence at the sounding of the seventh trumpet, and will continue from then on to the Ages of the Ages [the aeons of the aeons],

and until then, His Kingdom is IN this world because He reigns of this present time [nyn] IN the hearts and minds of those who believe in Him, but His Kingdom is not of this present time [nyn] OF this world.

How can He be reigning over the nations given to Him as His inheritance when the kingdoms of this world [o kosmos] are not now [nyn] His Kingdom but will become His Kingdom when the seventh trumpet sounds? Why does scripture tell us (not you or Amillennial theology but scripture) that we do not yet see all things placed under His feet?

Anyway, continue mentioning the half of scripture that supports your Amil false theory and failing to see the half that torpedoes your theories. It's not going to stop Christ from commencing to reign over the kingdoms of this world when the seventh trumpet sounds and His Kingdom goes from not being of this world to being of this world.

For now His Kingdom is not of this world. I didn't say it. Jesus said it.

You deny it.
 

Davidpt

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Right. We are in His kingdom now and He reigns now.

Colossians 1:12 and giving joyful thanks to the Father, who has qualified you to share in the inheritance of his holy people in the kingdom of light. 13 For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves,

Nowhere did Jesus ever say that His kingdom would be an earthly one. Instead, scripture says He will hand over the kingdom He rules over now to the Father at His second coming at the end of the age at which point the eternal new heavens and new earth will be ushered in.

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. 24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.

Matthew 13:40 “As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. 41 The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. 42 They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Whoever has ears, let them hear.

I would have addressed the op instead, but apparently that poster has me on ignore. Not that I care nor am I losing sleep over it. The point being, it would be in vain to address the OP if that poster who created it has you on ignore. Some ppl are just immature, I guess. They can't seem to deal with a little opposition. That aside. The OP mentioned John 18:36, yet you didn't. But even so, I'm assuming you likely interpret that passage like the OP does. Therefore, the following is in regard to John 18:36.

I guess we just ignore the 'now' recorded in that verse, right?

On a different note.

Luke 19:11 And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear.
12 He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.

Clearly, verse 12 explains why the kingdom of God should not immediately appear. Nowhere in this passage does it say the kingdom of God shall never appear. One has to twist these Scriptures in order to make the text say that.

Luke 19:15 And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.


Shouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what this verse is telling us. It is telling us that it now has appeared.

Then there is the following as well, clearly connected to this subject in the OP.

Luke 21:31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.


Unless one is a Preterist, most of the rest of us see this pertaining to His 2nd coming being close and at the door, thus right around the corner. But let's just ignore this as well, this part---the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.


I just can't get on board with Amil thinking. Even when we Premils keep it only focused on the NT and leave the OT out of it, it still doesn't prove Amils are correct and that Premils are incorrect about these things in question. It proves the opposite.
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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John 18:36 Jesus said, “My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jewish leaders. But now my kingdom is from another place.”

Was Jesus saying here that His kingdom which existed at that time but was not of this world (not a worldly, earthly kingdom, but instead spiritual and heavenly) was only not of this world at that time, but would be of this world at a later time in the future, as some think? No, I see no reason to think that He was implying that.

Jesus said His followers are not of this world just as He was not of this world (John 17:14-16). He said it in relation to His followers at that time, but of course that is true of His followers ever since then as well. But, does Jesus saying that His followers were not of this world mean He was saying we are currently not of this world but one day we will be of this world? No, He was not saying that at all. Jesus referred to this world as being evil and sinful. That's why he said He and His followers were not of this world, but those who reject Him are of this world (John 8:21-24).

So, Jesus saying that His kingdom is not of this world is not Him saying that His kingdom doesn't exist in this world now, but in the future it will. Clearly that can't be what He was saying because we are in the world and are in His spiritual kingdom now (Colossians 1:12-13). So, what He meant when He said His kingdom is not of this world is that His Kingdom is not evil and worldly like this evil world's kingdoms are. Instead, His kingdom, which is the kingdom of God, is "not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit" (Romans 14:17).

So, again, Jesus was not saying that His kingdom was now not of this world, but one day it would be. No, He's saying it exists now and it's not wordly and evil like earthly kingdoms are and it never will be. To say that His kingdom is not of this world now, but one day it will be would be like saying we are not of this world now, but one day we will be. Which obviously is not true and is not the right way to interpret what it means to not be of this world.
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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I would have addressed the op instead, but apparently that poster has me on ignore. Not that I care nor am I losing sleep over it.
Or maybe you're losing just a little sleep over it since you wanted to address him, but you can't? I'm kidding.

The point being, it would be in vain to address the OP if that poster who created it has you on ignore.
Yeah, because that means he can't see your posts. That's why I don't like to put people on my ignore list and I instead talk to the person and try to get them to agree not to talk to me and I won't talk to them, like I did with Zao is life. That way I can still read his posts.

Some ppl are just immature, I guess. They can't seem to deal with a little opposition.
I'm not sure what some people think when they come here. Debate and disagreement is expected on a forum like this. It makes no sense to constantly be offended and want to put people on ignore just because they disagree with you. Anyway, it is what it is.

That aside. The OP mentioned John 18:36, yet you didn't. But even so, I'm assuming you likely interpret that passage like the OP does. Therefore, the following is in regard to John 18:36.
This is interesting because I just gave my understanding of that verse in post 5. I have an agreement with Zao is life to not talk to him because our discussions were just getting too nasty (him saying Amil was like a cult was over the line and not the kind of thing I want to deal with), but I still want to read his posts. So, I didn't put him on my ignore list because of that. But, I saw something he said about John 18:36 that I disagree with, so I wanted to address it. So, I guess what I'm saying here is read what I said in post #5 if you want to see how I interpret that verse.

I guess we just ignore the 'now' recorded in that verse, right?
I guess we don't. I don't ignore it at all. Stop saying nonsense like this. What do you think it accomplishes? It makes you just as immature as the people you are calling immature. You didn't even ask me how I interpret the verse and then you say something like this. Ridiculous. Grow up.

On a different note.

Luke 19:11 And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear.
12 He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.

Clearly, verse 12 explains why the kingdom of God should not immediately appear. Nowhere in this passage does it say the kingdom of God shall never appear. One has to twist these Scriptures in order to make the text say that.
Who in the world said that the kingdom of God would never appear? No one. Why do you waste so much time making straw man arguments? Please explain that. You have wasted a great deal of time arguing with your straw men over the years. You can't get that time back.

Do you still not understand what Amills believe even after all this time? Why not? You don't think it's worth your time to make an effort to understand what we actually believe? Do you not understand the already, but not yet nature of the kingdom of God?

You don't deny that we're in the kingdom of Christ/God spiritually now, right? Yet, scripture clearly says we will inherit the kingdom of God in the future (1 Cor 15:50, Matthew 25:34). So, what does that mean to be in the kingdom of God now, but at the same time we don't inherit it until the future? It means we're in it spiritually now and it will come in its fullness in the future. From the Amill view, it will come in its fullness when Christ delievers the kingdom He reigns over now to the Father at His return at which point the kingdom will ecompass the "new heavens and new earth wherein dwelleth righteousness" (2 Peter 3:13).

Unless one is a Preterist, most of the rest of us see this pertaining to His 2nd coming being close and at the door, thus right around the corner. But let's just ignore this as well, this part---the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.
Who is ignoring that? I know Scott isn't. I know I'm not. What is the name of the straw man you're talking to here? Why do you waste so much time with this nonsense? You continually show your ignorance of what Amills believe. Are you just not trying to understand what we believe or is there just some inexplicable reason that is preventing you from understanding what we believe?

I just can't get on board with Amil thinking.
Maybe you would if you actually understood what we believe. What you can't get on board with is your straw man understanding of Amil.

Even when we Premils keep it only focused on the NT and leave the OT out of it, it still doesn't prove Amils are correct and that Premils are incorrect about these things in question. It proves the opposite.
LOL. Not even close. All you are proving is that you do not understand what we believe, which is why you misrepresent what we believe so often.
 

Davidpt

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John 18:36 Jesus said, “My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jewish leaders. But now my kingdom is from another place.”

Was Jesus saying here that His kingdom which existed at that time but was not of this world (not a worldly, earthly kingdom, but instead spiritual and heavenly) was only not of this world at that time, but would be of this world at a later time in the future, as some think? No, I see no reason to think that He was implying that.

Jesus said His followers are not of this world just as He was not of this world (John 17:14-16). He said it in relation to His followers at that time, but of course that is true of His followers ever since then as well. But, does Jesus saying that His followers were not of this world mean He was saying we are currently not of this world but one day we will be of this world? No, He was not saying that at all. Jesus referred to this world as being evil and sinful. That's why he said He and His followers were not of this world, but those who reject Him are of this world (John 8:21-24).

So, Jesus saying that His kingdom is not of this world is not Him saying that His kingdom doesn't exist in this world now, but in the future it will. Clearly that can't be what He was saying because we are in the world and are in His spiritual kingdom now (Colossians 1:12-13). So, what He meant when He said His kingdom is not of this world is that His Kingdom is not evil and worldly like this evil world's kingdoms are. Instead, His kingdom, which is the kingdom of God, is "not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit" (Romans 14:17).

So, again, Jesus was not saying that His kingdom was now not of this world, but one day it would be. No, He's saying it exists now and it's not wordly and evil like earthly kingdoms are and it never will be. To say that His kingdom is not of this world now, but one day it will be would be like saying we are not of this world now, but one day we will be. Which obviously is not true and is not the right way to interpret what it means to not be of this world.

This is basically how I reason some of this as well. I don't have any issues with this. It would have been nice had you made this post before I made mine, and that I had read this post first. But, unfornately, it didn't turn out that way, no fault of yours of course.

Since I don't really have any issues with how you are interpreting this, there is still the OP that insists this proves there will be no 1000 yr reign on this earth. Exactly how, though?

Notice that I brought up Luke 19 and the parable of the talents. And also take note of, no matter how one interprets that parable, it is crystal clear that it is meaning before 1 Corinthians 15:28 is fulfilled, and not after instead. All of the following proves it. Not that anyone might be disputing that.

Luke 19:16 Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds.
17 And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.

Luke 19:27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

At this point the kingdom of God has literally materialized on the earth since it would be absurd, that if this was taking place somewhere else, that Jesus would then reward someone authority over ten cities. And who cares if that might not mean exactly what it says? That is beside the point. Cities only make sense pertaining to the earth, not somewhere in another galaxy outside of the realm of time and outside the realm of this planet.

What do some interpreters think the following means if not that Jesus has bodily returned and set foot on this earth again?

Luke 19:12 He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.


Do they start off by denying that this---A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom--literally means Jesus has bodily left the planet? That's not all that verse says, though. It also says this---and to return. To return to where? How can anyone not know that to return to somewhere indicates you were there previously?

Luke 19:15 And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.


And here we see that He has clearly returned. And like I already pointed out, obviously everything pertaining to this parable is meaning before 1 Corithians 15:28 is fulfilled. And that He has to be on the earth in order to even fulfill these things, regardless what it looks like when these things are being fulfilled.

Is one going to deny that verse 12 records that He has to return eventually? Is one going to deny that verse 15 shows that He has returned? Is one going to argue that when you return somewhere, you don't return to somewhere you were previously, you return to somewhere you haven't been yet? LOL if anyone is so doctrinally biased that they can't even reason coherently what it means to return to somewhere. Don't blame that foolishness on me, and don't blame it on the text in question, either. All I'm doing is just pointing these things out. Things that are just plain ole common sense. That you return to somewhere where you were previously, thus this parable shows that Jesus has set foot on the earth again, and that it is meaning before 1 Corinthians 15:28 is fulfilled.

Not to mention, it would be cherry picking, thus not being consistent, something Amils brag they are being at all times, to take His leaving in verse 12 literally, but not His return recorded in that verse. And once again, you return to somewhere where you were previously.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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This is basically how I reason some of this as well. I don't have any issues with this. It would have been nice had you made this post before I made mine, and that I had read this post first. But, unfornately, it didn't turn out that way, no fault of yours of course.
So, you won't even apologize for the way you talked to me for no good reason by falsely accusing me of ignoring things that you now know that I did not ignore at all? Don't you know me better than that by now? I ignore NOTHING. If I talked to you the way you talked to me and then found out that what I said to you was completely inappropriate and completely misrepresented what you actually believe, I would apologize for that.

Since I don't really have any issues with how you are interpreting this, there is still the OP that insists this proves there will be no 1000 yr reign on this earth. Exactly how, though?
Because Jesus never said that He would ever rule over an earthly kingdom. He only ever said that His kingdom is not earthly. It did not come with observation (Luke 17:20) and is not of this world (John 18:36). What is hard to understand about that? Where did He ever say that He would rule over an earthly kingdom? He never did.

Notice that I brought up Luke 19 and the parable of the talents. And also take note of, no matter how one interprets that parable, it is crystal clear that it is meaning before 1 Corinthians 15:28 is fulfilled, and not after instead. All of the following proves it. Not that anyone might be disputing that.

Luke 19:16 Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds.
17 And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.

Luke 19:27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

At this point the kingdom of God has literally materialized on the earth since it would be absurd, that if this was taking place somewhere else, that Jesus would then reward someone authority over ten cities. And who cares if that might not mean exactly what it says? That is beside the point. Cities only make sense pertaining to the earth, not somewhere in another galaxy outside of the realm of time and outside the realm of this planet.

What do some interpreters think the following means if not that Jesus has bodily returned and set foot on this earth again?

Luke 19:12 He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.
Where that takes place is irrelevant as far as I'm concerned. If it takes place on the earth it would have to be the new (renewed) earth because Jesus will be burning up this earth when He comes (2 Peter 3:10-12). Compare that Luke 19 parable to Matthew 25:31-46. What happens first at the judgment after Jesus comes? The sheep, representing believers, are told to inherit the kingdom prepared for them from the foundation of the world. And they will be immortal since we know believers will all be changed to have immortal bodies when Jesus comes. At that same time, the goats, representing unbelievers, will be cast into "everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels (Matt 25:41). With me so far? So, compare Matthew 25:41 to Luke 19:27. They are talking about the same thing.

So, tell me who are the mortals at this point that you think will populate the earth, keeping in mind that believers all have mortal bodies at this point and unbelievers are all cast into the fire at this point?


Do they start off by denying that this---A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom--literally means Jesus has bodily left the planet? That's not all that verse says, though. It also says this---and to return. To return to where? How can anyone not know that to return to somewhere indicates you were there previously?

Luke 19:15 And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.
Sure, let's say He returns to the earth then. Who cares? That is completely besides the point I'm making. That proves NOTHING in relation to whether Amill or Premill is true. What we need to discuss is what happens at that point when He returns? He reigns over people for a thousand years as you believe? How? Who would those people be exactly, keeping in mind what I said above?

And here we see that He has clearly returned. And like I already pointed out, obviously everything pertaining to this parable is meaning before 1 Corithians 15:28 is fulfilled. And that He has to be on the earth in order to even fulfill these things, regardless what it looks like when these things are being fulfilled.
I don't know what your point is exactly in relation to 1 Corinthians 15:28. Can you elaborate on that? That verse is related to Jesus delivering the kingdom to the Father. Obviously, the judgment would have to take place first before He does that. So? I'm not seeing your point here as it relates to that verse.

Is one going to deny that verse 12 records that He has to return eventually? Is one going to deny that verse 15 shows that He has returned? Is one going to argue that when you return somewhere, you don't return to somewhere you were previously, you return to somewhere you haven't been yet? LOL if anyone is so doctrinally biased that they can't even reason coherently what it means to return to somewhere.
Good grief, man. You focus so much on things that are irrelevant. Okay, sure, let's say He returns to earth. So what? What is the earth like at that point and what happens at that point? That's what we are discussing here.

Don't blame that foolishness on me, and don't blame it on the text in question, either.
LOL. what foolishness? Stop your own foolishness and address the topic at hand which is regarding what happens when Jesus returns. You're so focused on trying to prove He returns to earth that you forgot you're supposed to be showing that He supposedly rules on the earth for a thousand years at that point .Where are you doing anything to show that?

All I'm doing is just pointing these things out.
Yes, those things that don't do anything to support your Premill view at all, which is such a waste of time.

Things that are just plain ole common sense. That you return to somewhere where you were previously, thus this parable shows that Jesus has set foot on the earth again, and that it is meaning before 1 Corinthians 15:28 is fulfilled.
Hello? Have I ever said that He doesn't set foot on earth again? No. What have I said many times? I know you forget a lot of what I say, so let me remind you. I have said many times that I believe He will renew this earth, making it the new (renewed) earth. So, I say that He will not set foot on this earth as we know it again, but I don't say He won't set foot on the earth again at all. He will set foot on the earth again after He renews it by fire first (2 Peter 3:10-13).

Not to mention, it would be cherry picking, thus not being consistent, something Amils brag they are being at all times, to take His leaving in verse 12 literally, but not His return recorded in that verse. And once again, you return to somewhere where you were previously.
Okay, stop wasting time on that and show me where any of this means that He has to rule on earth for a thousand years at that point.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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What Scripture tells us that His Kingdom will be "of this world"?
Absolutely none, as you know. Premills like to read things into verses that are not there. Jesus said His kingdom is not of this world. Period. He did NOT say His kingdom is not of this world for now, but one day it will be. No. That would be like when He said He and His followers are not of this world (John 17:14-16), He was implying that one day that He and His followers would be of this world. Um...no. Not being of this world means not being evil and worldly. Jesus's kingdom will never be evil and worldly and therefore will never be of this world.
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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I would have addressed the op instead, but apparently that poster has me on ignore. Not that I care nor am I losing sleep over it. The point being, it would be in vain to address the OP if that poster who created it has you on ignore. Some ppl are just immature, I guess. They can't seem to deal with a little opposition. That aside. The OP mentioned John 18:36, yet you didn't. But even so, I'm assuming you likely interpret that passage like the OP does.
I have a question for you. Do you believe that Jesus will return at the end of the age? I'll let you know why I'm asking it after you answer the question.
 

covenantee

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Absolutely none, as you know. Premills like to read things into verses that are not there. Jesus said His kingdom is not of this world. Period. He did NOT say His kingdom is not of this world for now, but one day it will be. No. That would be like when He said He and His followers are not of this world (John 17:14-16), He was implying that one day that He and His followers would be of this world. Um...no. Not being of this world means not being evil and worldly. Jesus's kingdom will never be evil and worldly and therefore will never be of this world.
Amen bro. Premils attempt to draw absurd hairsplitting distinctions e.g. "in this world" vs "of this world". Another one is the "Kingdom of God" vs the "Kingdom of Heaven".

They're naught but authors of confusion. :laughing:
 

Spiritual Israelite

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Amen bro. Premils attempt to draw absurd hairsplitting distinctions e.g. "in this world" vs "of this world". Another one is the "Kingdom of God" vs the "Kingdom of Heaven".
Haha. That's a good one that they come up with. So, to them, somehow the following verses are not speaking of the same kingdom:

Matthew 8:11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven. 12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Luke 13:28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.

They're naught but authors of confusion. :laughing:
That's for sure.
 
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ewq1938

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Most Amills know Christ will eventually rule on the Earth at the second coming and many believe he rules the Earth right now from Heaven so the argument in the Op is flawed in every possible sense.

Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
 
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covenantee

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Haha. That's a good one that they come up with. So, to them, somehow the following verses are not speaking of the same kingdom:

Matthew 8:11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven. 12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Luke 13:28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.


That's for sure.
Yeah. And this one.

Matthew 19
23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.
24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a premil to understand Scriptural synonyms. :laughing:
 
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Zao is life

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What Scripture tells us that His Kingdom will be "of this world"?
You only see half of biblical scripture half of the time so I'm not surprised you never saw the part of my post mentioning it. Not going to repeat it.

But you will only misinterpret - change the meaning - of Biblical scripture to ensure scripture complies with your Preterist Amil theology so it's useless anyway because according to you and all other Amillennialists Christ will never inherit the nations as His Kingdom because He "already has" (even though He said His Kingdom is not now of this world), and according to you the kingdoms of this world will never become the Kingdoms of Christ because they "already are".

Your Amil friend here has already made it known that the meaning of the scriptures talking about Christ's Kingdom vs. the kingdoms of this world has been changed by Amillennialists to mean what they do not mean, and you agreed with his posts. So it's no use.
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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Most Amills know Christ will eventually rule on the Earth at the second coming and many believe he rules the Earth right now from Heaven so the argument in the Op is flawed in every possible sense.

Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Learn how to read. The argument is that He will not rule on the earth for a thousand years after He returns. And the argument is that those who Premills think Jesus will reign over will instead be destroyed when He comes again.
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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Yeah. And this one.

Matthew 19
23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.
24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a premil to understand Scriptural synonyms. :laughing:
1743684624884.gif
 

claninja

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The heathen are still raging and fighting against the Father and the Son.
The only time they can no longer fight is when we get new earth and new heaven in which dwells righteousness.
Even pre-mills admit there is evil rebellion of the wicked and Satan during their earthly millennial reign.

Psalm 2
.
Why do the [a]nations [b]rage,
And the people plot a [c]vain thing?
2 The kings of the earth set themselves,
And the rulers take counsel together,
Against the Lord and against His Anointed,[d] saying,

This is about the crucifixion. I don't think it is about the heathens "STILL raging and fighting...."

Acts 4:25-28
You spoke by the Holy Spirit through the mouth of Your servant,c our father David:
‘Why do the nations rage and the peoples plot in vain? 26The kings of the earth take their stand and the rulers gather together
against the Lord and against His Anointed One.’d 27In fact, this is the very city where Herod and Pontius Pilate conspired with the Gentiles and the people of Israel against Your holy servant Jesus, whom You anointed. 28They carried out what Your hand and will had decided beforehand would happen.
 

Scott Downey

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This is about the crucifixion. I don't think it is about the heathens "STILL raging and fighting...."

Acts 4:25-28
You spoke by the Holy Spirit through the mouth of Your servant,c our father David:
‘Why do the nations rage and the peoples plot in vain? 26The kings of the earth take their stand and the rulers gather together
against the Lord and against His Anointed One.’d 27In fact, this is the very city where Herod and Pontius Pilate conspired with the Gentiles and the people of Israel against Your holy servant Jesus, whom You anointed. 28They carried out what Your hand and will had decided beforehand would happen.
It has broad application to how the heathen resist and fight against Christ.