Is the Judgment Seat of Christ separate from the Great White Throne Judgment?

[ewq1938]

You obviously didn't read my other posts in this thread, particularly post#14...

Did you notice my post to you? It's just a few posts above.

 

[Davidpt]

I'm not saying the words given to the 7 churches no longer applies today. But certainly the words apply to those churches...which means the church in Philadelphia shall receive the unconditional promise given to them.

My question still stands....When do you think those members of the synagogue of Satan will be resurrected to make them worship Christ and worship at the feet of the members of the Philadelphia church, other than on the Judgment Day (Revelation 20:11-15)?

That's not how I'm looking at this. I'm looking at there being them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie, still existing in our day and time, but instead of Revelation 19:21 happening to them as well, they are spared and are meaning some of the ones meant in Zechariah 14:16, and that Jesus and His resurrected saints rule over them with a rod of iron.

After all, Zechariah 14:16 is involving coming up to worship. It would be silly to think that unsaved ppl that already died, that Jesus is going to raise them from the dead in order to make them do what Revelation 3:9 records during the millennium. That's not what I think.

And since Revelation 3:9 hasn't been fulfilled, what's recorded in Zechariah 14:16 appears to fit it, which then means what I brought up earlier in Isaiah 60 is the the same time period Zechariah 14:16 is involving, that being the thousand years following the 2nd coming.

 

[Davidpt]

I would say during the Millennium. Living, former members of the synagogue of satan. I don't believe the intent was to say ALL of them would, or even the ones alive when John penned the book.

Sounds like we could be somewhat on the same page here, the fact, even in our day and time there are still them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie.

 

[Davy]

My question still stands....When do you think those members of the synagogue of Satan will be resurrected to make them worship Christ and worship at the feet of the members of the Philadelphia church, other than on the Judgment Day (Revelation 20:11-15)?

If you simply keep to the Bible Scriptures as written, then all your questions on that would be easily understood.

Revelation 3:9 where Lord Jesus said He will make those of the "synagogue of Satan" to come worship at the feet of His elect, can only mean one specific timing, during His future 1,000 years reign that begins on the day of His future return on the last day of this present world. On that day is when His elect are promised to reign with Him with the "rod of iron" over the nations (Rev.2). Those who rejected Christ will stand in judgment throughout His future 1,000 years reign. They will not be destroyed just yet.

 

[dremnant]

That's even more screwy than what you said before.

Not all of the saints in the last days during the coming "great tribulation" will be killed, otherwise what Apostle Paul taught in 1 Thess.4:17 about Christ's coming to gather His Church that's STILL ALIVE on earth would not happen. You do recall Rev.20 mentions those too as the "first resurrection", right? And there is NOWHERE written any such idea you have that those of the "first resurrection" will take the unsaved into the future "lake of fire". Who in the world... told you that idiotic tale?

The "rapture" teaching deserves its own thread, so I did not mention it in the OP. But if you want to know my personal stand on it...it is going to happen right before Christ descends with the "first resurrection" saints. The "raptured" believers will not be included in the "first resurrection", based on the qualification mentioned in Revelation 20:4...
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

By understanding what the Scriptures say, the only other resurrection the "raptured" believers will be a part of is in Revelation 20:11.

It is not an idiotic tale, as I have shown you how it is supported by the Scriptures.

There you go again with that false idea about "Christians who were not murdered" being those that are judged at the Great White Throne Judgment. As I said before, if the "first resurrection" is ONLY about murdered believers on Christ, then that leaves NO ONE STILL ALIVE ON EARTH when Jesus comes to gather them per 1 Thess.4:17! So your idea goes directly AGAINST the written Bible Scripture.

You won't find anywhere in the Scriptures where it says the "raptured" believers will be included in the first resurrection. Surely, they shall meet the murdered believers in the air...but not join them in the first resurrection.

You should read Revelation 2:10-11...
10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.
11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

This passage is also one of the texts supporting my belief there is no such thing as "The Great Tribulation" (and that deserves its own thread as the rapture topic).

NOT WRITTEN IN GOD'S WORD ANYWHERE. Not even suggested.

There is only ONE time of resurrection at the end of this world on the LAST DAY. But there are TWO TYPES of that one resurrection event. Jesus showed this in John 5:28-29 that on the day of His future coming, ALL... in the graves shall hear His voice, and come forth, those who did good to the "resurrection of life", and those who did evil to the "resurrection of damnation".

So instead of making up tales, you should read The Bible more, and learn to stick to what it says as written.

It's not a made up tales....read the following verses:
Matthew 11:22, Matthew 12:41, Luke 11:32, Romans 2:12

 

[dremnant]

I would say during the Millennium. Living, former members of the synagogue of satan. I don't believe the intent was to say ALL of them would, or even the ones alive when John penned the book.

Are you saying the members of Satan's synagogue will be resurrected to live again during the Millenium?

 

[ewq1938]

Are you saying the members of Satan's synagogue will be resurrected to live again during the Millenium?

No, the resurrection of the unsaved is after the Mill. There will be unsaved living people in the Mill, some will be them.

 

[ewq1938]

This passage is also one of the texts supporting my belief there is no such thing as "The Great Tribulation" (and that deserves its own thread as the rapture topic).

Jesus called it tribulation, as well as great tribulation and was talking about the same time period. It would be the worst (greatest) persecution/tribulation Christians have ever faced.

Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Mar_13:24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,

 

[Davy]

The "rapture" teaching deserves its own thread, so I did not mention it in the OP. But if you want to know my personal stand on it...it is going to happen right before Christ descends with the "first resurrection" saints. The "raptured" believers will not be included in the "first resurrection", based on the qualification mentioned in Revelation 20:4...
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

By understanding what the Scriptures say, the only other resurrection the "raptured" believers will be a part of is in Revelation 20:11.

It is not an idiotic tale, as I have shown you how it is supported by the Scriptures.

Well... firstly, the Rev.20:11 has nothing to do with a rapture... for that time of God's Great White Throne Judgment only happens AFTER Christ's 1,000 years reign with His elect of the "first resurrection." That means simply, that the gathering of the "first resurrection" of Christ's elect Church already happened on the day of His coming BEFORE His "thousand years" reign begins.

Only those of the "resurrection of damnation" take part in God's Great White Throne Judgment. It is their names being looked for in the Book of Life at that Judgment, not those of the "first resurrection".

You won't find anywhere in the Scriptures where it says the "raptured" believers will be included in the first resurrection. Surely, they shall meet the murdered believers in the air...but not join them in the first resurrection.

It is too found, simply by believing what Lord Jesus PROMISED His elect that reign with Him.

I see you've OMITTED the following verse from your understanding...

Rev 2:26-27
26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth My works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of My Father.
KJV

That does NOT mean Christ's elect are all killed during the coming "great tribulation". Like I said before, the 1 Thess.4:17 event of Christ's elect still alive on earth being "caught up" to Him at His coming applies to those in that Rev.2:26-27 Scripture.

Christ's Church are those of the "first resurrection" of Rev.20. ALL... others will be of the unsaved throughout Christ's "thousand years" reign with His elect Church.

 

[dremnant]

Revelation 3:9 where Lord Jesus said He will make those of the "synagogue of Satan" to come worship at the feet of His elect, can only mean one specific timing, during His future 1,000 years reign that begins on the day of His future return on the last day of this present world. On that day is when His elect are promised to reign with Him with the "rod of iron" over the nations (Rev.2). Those who rejected Christ will stand in judgment throughout His future 1,000 years reign. They will not be destroyed just yet.

You are making up a teaching that is in direct conflict with what the Scriptures say.

The following are established in Revelation 20:

1) The first resurrection only includes murdered believers (v. 4-5)

2) Those who are part of the first resurrection shall reign with Christ for a thousand years (v. 4)

3) The rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished (v. 5)

4) Those who are part of the first resurrection cannot be hurt by the second death (v. 4)

There is no way the members of the synagogue of Satan mentioned in Revelation 2:9 would be resurrected for the thousand years reign of Christ.

 

[dremnant]

No, the resurrection of the unsaved is after the Mill. There will be unsaved living people in the Mill, some will be them.

Try reading Revelation 2:9 again...
I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

There is no indication Christ was referring to a group of unsaved people far away in the future. He was referring to them in the present tense. Don't twist what the Scriptures say to make it to conform to your unbiblical doctrine.

 

[dremnant]

Jesus called it tribulation, as well as great tribulation and was talking about the same time period. It would be the worst (greatest) persecution/tribulation Christians have ever faced.

Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Mar_13:24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,

The tribulation period started during the times of the Apostles (John 16:33; Rev 2:10).

 

[ewq1938]

The tribulation period started during the times of the Apostles (John 16:33; Rev 2:10).

Not the one Christ spoke of. He said one generation would see all the events described, which included the trib and second coming and since the Coming hasn't happened, one generation did not yet see those things or the trib.

 

[ewq1938]

Try reading Revelation 2:9 again...
I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

There is no indication Christ was referring to a group of unsaved people far away in the future. He was referring to them in the present tense. Don't twist what the Scriptures say to make it to conform to your unbiblical doctrine.

Some things applied to then, some were prophecy to be fulfilled in the distant future. Don't twist what the Scriptures say to make it to conform to YOUR unbiblical doctrine.

 

[Davy]

You are making up a teaching that is in direct conflict with what the Scriptures say.

No, you are wrong. It is your holding to false doctrines of men that have taken your understanding away from the simplicity of the Scriptures, that's the difference.

The following are established in Revelation 20:

1) The first resurrection only includes murdered believers (v. 4-5)

No, you are still... in error on that. The "first resurrection" also represents those gathered at the rapture on the last day of this world, who are promised to reign with Christ with His "rod of iron". And I showed you that per the Revelation 2:25-27 Scripture within His Message to the Church of Thyatira. Now go read it like you are supposed to, like a good little boy.

 

[Brakelite]

I have no idea where you get these ideas from. I can't say as I agree with you.

Much love!

Marvel.

 

[Brakelite]

I think we are missing something if we believe Jesus comes back with rewards for the faithful (and death for the unbeliever) , and then later preside over the judgement. Isn't that all back to front? Where is the justice if the good are separated from the evil, the good are translated and the evil destroyed, rewards given to the good and the evil dammed, all before any judgement is made?

I guess the above is just a little too logical to consider. A pre-advent judgement? Decisions made in heaven before Jesus comes back to reward the righteous and punish the sinner?
That would mean our cases coming before the judge for a decision maybe even now? Without our personal presence? Too much to contemplate? Okay, go back to the illogical where sinners are now suffering in hell and the saved glowing in heaven al before the judgement. Yep. Makes perfect sense.

 

[Davy]

I guess the above is just a little too logical to consider. A pre-advent judgement? Decisions made in heaven before Jesus comes back to reward the righteous and punish the sinner?
That would mean our cases coming before the judge for a decision maybe even now? Without our personal presence? Too much to contemplate? Okay, go back to the illogical where sinners are now suffering in hell and the saved glowing in heaven al before the judgement. Yep. Makes perfect sense.

Hey, you're messin' with many preacher's rice bowl!

Preaching fire and brimstone going into the "lake of fire" on the day of Christ's coming for not believing on Him brings in more converts to Christ! It's the money-maker's favorite scare tactic.

And anyone who says to those preachers that there will be converts to Christ during His future "thousand years" reign, those preachers hate those saying that, because it upsets their rice bowl.

 

[dremnant]

Not the one Christ spoke of. He said one generation would see all the events described, which included the trib and second coming and since the Coming hasn't happened, one generation did not yet see those things or the trib.

Show me the text where Christ said His coming happens before the tribulation.

I already showed the text where He told them they shall experience tribulation.

 

[dremnant]

Some things applied to then, some were prophecy to be fulfilled in the distant future. Don't twist what the Scriptures say to make it to conform to YOUR unbiblical doctrine.

You keep on ignoring the fact that the prophecy in Rev 3:9 is about the same synagogue of Satan during that time.

If you continue on ignoring what is actually written in the Scriptures, there's no way I could have a real discussion with you.