The Coming Rapture

[The Light]

If you read 1 Thessalonians 4:15 you will see the coming of the Lord.

It’s undeniable.

Yes, the Lord comes in 1 Thes 4 for His bride. The Lord himself comes at the trump of God or voice of God. No denying that.

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
1 Thessalonians 4:15

The two things mentioned are:

1. we who are alive and remain - The Rapture
2. those who are asleep. - The Ressurrection of the dead in Christ.

First is the ressurrection of the dead in Christ.


For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
1 Thessalonians 4:16

I'm with you so far. The Lord comes for the dead in Christ first. This is the barley harvest. The Lord returns for the alive that remain. This is the wheat harvest.

The third thing to happen at the coming of the Lord is the destruction of the antichrist.


And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.
2 Thessalonians 2:8


At His Coming, the Lord will destroy the antichrist.
The Lord will gather His people at the Resurrection and Rapture.

Ok. Now my turn.

1. On April 2nd one year, I went to Walmart. I picked up some "I Can't Believe It's Not Butter". It was late at night, and no one saw me.

2. On August 26th that same year, I returned to Walmart for some "2% Milk". Again, no one saw me.

3. Several years later I returned. They finally had my favorite butter in stock and also my favorite brand of whole milk. It picked it up. EVERYONE SAW ME. I grabbed it and went straight home. I had a big party. The party lasted a year.
Right after the party started, I cut the power to the store. Then I started hitting golf ball at it. Then I dug up the water line leaving them without water. Then I turned up my 10,000-watt stereo and made their life miserable.

4. Finally, I returned and burnt the place down.

Did I pick up "I Can't Believe it's not butter, 2% milk, butter, and whole milk........in addition to burning the place down on the same trip?

• But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming.

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming. Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 1 Corinthians 15:22-24

Each in his own order. First fruits...........then they that are Christs at His coming. Will anyone see Him?
Then each in his order. First fruits and they that are Christs at His coming. Everyone sees Him.
Then He comes again, but not for a harvest, but for wrath and vengeance.

If each in his order as the scripture says, why do you think that there are 144,000 first fruits from the 12 tribes of Israel.

 

[JLB]

Yes, the Lord comes in 1 Thes 4 for His bride. The Lord himself comes at the trump of God or voice of God. No denying that.


I'm with you so far. The Lord comes for the dead in Christ first. This is the barley harvest. The Lord returns for the alive that remain. This is the wheat harvest.


Ok. Now my turn.

1. On April 2nd one year, I went to Walmart. I picked up some "I Can't Believe It's Not Butter". It was late at night, and no one saw me.

2. On August 26th that same year, I returned to Walmart for some "2% Milk". Again, no one saw me.

3. Several years later I returned. They finally had my favorite butter in stock and also my favorite brand of whole milk. It picked it up. EVERYONE SAW ME. I grabbed it and went straight home. I had a big party. The party lasted a year.
Right after the party started, I cut the power to the store. Then I started hitting golf ball at it. Then I dug up the water line leaving them without water. Then I turned up my 10,000-watt stereo and made their life miserable.

4. Finally, I returned and burnt the place down.

Did I pick up "I Can't Believe it's not butter, 2% milk, butter, and whole milk........in addition to burning the place down on the same trip?



Each in his own order. First fruits...........then they that are Christs at His coming. Will anyone see Him?
Then each in his order. First fruits and they that are Christs at His coming. Everyone sees Him.
Then He comes again, but not for a harvest, but for wrath and vengeance.

If each in his order as the scripture says, why do you think that there are 144,000 first fruits from the 12 tribes of Israel.

Brother, we need not get entangled in the book of Revelation until first we have seen and understood the plain clear teachings from Jesus and Paul about these things.


Im thankful you agree that the resurrection of the dead in Christ comes first.


Now that we at least agree on the resurrection, let’s look at verse 17.


For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17

• Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.

The resurrection and rapture are one event, in which those who are raptured, will be caught up together, with those who were resurrected.

This is referred to as the gathering, where the Lord gathers together His people who are heaven (the resurrection) with those who are alive and remain on earth (rapture).


This occurs at His coming.

 

[The Light]

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17

• Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.

The resurrection and rapture are one event, in which those who are raptured, will be caught up together, with those who were resurrected.

The dead in Christ rise first. The alive remain. When the alive remain unto the coming of the Lord, He will bring the dead in Christ with Him. The alive that remained will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air

1 Thes 4
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

I know this is not what is normally taught, but that is what the Word says.

When we look at the Feasts of God, barley and wheat cakes are presented by the priest on Pentecost. The barley harvest is complete on Pentecost, but the wheat is not harvested until the end of summer, which would be the Feast of New Wine.

In 1 Thes 4 the Lord Himself comes for His bride the Church at the trump of God or voice of God

This is referred to as the gathering, where the Lord gathers together His people who are heaven (the resurrection) with those who are alive and remain on earth (rapture).


This occurs at His coming.

The gathering is another matter altogether. The gathering is the gathering from heaven and earth.

Mark 13
26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven

The gathering occurs before the day of the Lord.

2 Thes 2
Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

At the gathering from heaven and earth, the dead and alive are changed at the same time, in the twinkling of an eye. This rapture will occur just before the wrath of God. The Lord will send His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth. This will occur at the last trump which is blown on the feast of Trumpets which is the fall fruit harvest.

There are two raptures. The first before the tribulation and the second before the wrath of God.

Blessings to you brother.

 

[Davy]

Yeah great. You think that the tribulation is about to begin when the 6th seal signs of the sun, moon and stars occur.

And yet Jesus says that the great tribulation is over at the signs of the sun, moon and stars.

As usual, I'll go with Jesus on this. You can mutter around with claims that are unscriptural if that is your goal. Don't you even want to know the truth?

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Nice try, but obviously you FORGOT about the following Joel 2 Scripture about the end of this world...

Joel 2:31
31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.
KJV

That "day of the LORD" is the last day of this world, the day when Jesus returns to gather His Church AFTER THE TRIBULATION.

 

[dremnant]

the biblical "lie" spoken of by Paul.

This reminds me of a person claiming the original New Testament books were written in Aramaic, instead of Greek. He wants me to believe the scholars who discovered the earliest texts were liars, and that I should believe him instead.

 

[The Light]

Nice try, but obviously you FORGOT about the following Joel 2 Scripture about the end of this world...

Joel 2:31
31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.
KJV

That "day of the LORD" is the last day of this world, the day when Jesus returns to gather His Church AFTER THE TRIBULATION.

I think that you FORGOT that 6 comes before 7.

Are you not aware that the sun is darkened and the moon turns to blood at the 6th seal?
Are you not aware that the day of the Lord is in the 7th seal?

The end of the age is the sixth seal. The sun is darkened and the moon turns to blood before the day of the Lord

Revelation 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

The wrath of God is the 7th seal. There is a harvest at the 6th seal..........seen here.

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

[Davy]

I think that you FORGOT that 6 comes before 7.

IF... you had been aware of the SELAH in the Book of Psalms, it is a PERIOD OF SILENCE.

Selah is like a rest mark in music, as the Psalms are actually in song form.

Ps 32:7
7 Thou art my hiding place; Thou shalt preserve me from trouble; Thou shalt compass me about with songs of deliverance. Selah.
KJV

Rev 8:1
8 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.
KJV

I kind of hate to say it, but obviously Christ made that "period of silence" with the opening of the 7th SEAL like a type of SELAH, for those who REFUSE to understand the order by the EVENTS given in His Revelation, and not just relying on numerical order. The selah is used in the Psalms as a 'pause to ponder' idea. It means to ponder what had just been said (or sung).

 

[The Light]

I kind of hate to say it, but obviously Christ made that "period of silence" with the opening of the 7th SEAL like a type of SELAH, for those who REFUSE to understand the order by the EVENTS given in His Revelation, and not just relying on numerical order. The selah is used in the Psalms as a 'pause to ponder' idea. It means to ponder what had just been said (or sung).

Oh boy. It seems God was very precise in numbering the order of events. If the events weren't to be understood in order, why would He number them?

Anyone that thinks that the 7th seal is 30 minutes of silence is very confused. You want to skip all those trumpets and vials because you can't figure this out.

Many of you present this tired old teaching that has been pounded into place in past years by those without understanding. It is the time of the end. Things are unsealed.

God put things in numbered order for a reason. The seals are in order, the trumpets are in order and the vials are in order.

The 7th seal is the wrath of God..................and it begins with 30 minutes of silence in heaven. If you think that is the wrath of God is silence in heaven, you are sadly mistaken. The wrath of God is 7 trumpets and 7 vials that take place in the 7th seal. The vials are just a different view of things that happen in the 7th seal.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Well you said that we as the church do not go to heaven. Jesus clearly returned to heaven. He is preparing a place for us in heaven.

We will not BODILY go there, but our souls go there when we die. I never said anything different, so try to not put words in my mouth, so to speak, that I'm not saying.

Yes, He is preparing a place for us while in heaven, but that does not mean He can't bring that place to us rather than taking us there when He comes from heaven.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Quote
"" no wherein scripture are there two raptures. All references refer to the same even"

Rev 14 :14 is not 1thes 4, nor can it possibly be.

So yes there are 2 raptures as the bible declares.

Why did Paul only write about one of them then (1 Thess 4:14-17)? Do you think he was somehow not aware of the other one? It seems like many here don't think Paul knew what he was talking about or didn't have all the information or something, but I couldn't disagree more with that.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

So if the the people in Rev. 19 are the souls of Christians, you have a problem.

No, I don't. Only in your mind.

It says the bride (which is the whole body of Christ) has made herself ready in heaven and is clothed in fine linen.

It does not say that the entire bride is in heaven. You are adding that to the text. What about believers on the earth? They are obviously part of the bride as well. Anyone who believes in Christ is obviously part of His bride because anyone who believes in Him has an intimate, personal, saving relationship with Him just like those whose souls are now in heaven did.

If there are Christians still on earth struggling in the trib, the bride is not complete to be made ready!

Why is that? Why can't someone who is alive on earth be ready for Christ to come? That's ridiculous. Struggling with tribulation is not a reason to not be ready. I've been going through a lot of tribulation in my life lately, but that does not mean I'm not ready for Jesus to come.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

No, just trying to understand how you comprehend the Bible.

But I think I get it now.

That in itself is cause for celebration because that at least gives us a chance to have a productive discussion, which is impossible when neither person understands the other or even if just one person doesn't understand the other.

The souls and spirits of Christians go to be with Jesus when they die.

Agree. Thought I might as well interject here right away and agree with you about something since I know I will probably not agree with much else that you said.

You believe in a post trib rapture where as Jesus is in the atmosphere at the end of the trib to fight the battle of Armegeddon,,

Yes, even though my understanding of that battle differs from yours. But, we don't need to go into that here.

he reunites the bodies of the dead and the remaining cxhristians right before the battle of Armeggedon takes place are caught up moments before Jesus sets foot back on earth.

Before He sets foot on the new earth (this earth renewed). Remember, I'm an Amillennialist. Or did you somehow not know that?

WOW!

What is so amazing about that?

 

[ewq1938]

Yes I've seen that verse. So you think that the 7th seal is silence in heaven. Why do you stop reading after one verse? Those 7 angels are getting ready to sound. Do you stop reading after one verse on all the seals? I doubt it, but maybe you do.

The 7th seal is one verse, not an unknown large amount of other verses. By your reasoning, the rest of Rev would be part of the 7th seal lol.

How can you possibly think that the wrath of God is silence in heaven?

The wrath of God is described in the 6th seal not the 7th seal. I already told you that but you keep insisting the 7th seal is wrath of God when nothing in the scriptures support that.

 

[The Light]

The 7th seal is one verse,

Yeah right. Those seven trumpets are nothing. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

not an unknown large amount of other verses. By your reasoning, the rest of Rev would be part of the 7th seal lol.

The fact that you add LOL makes this priceless. To be factual the wrath of God is in Revelation 8-11 and another view in Revelation 16.

Woe, woe, woe to the earth God is about to unleash 30 minutes of silence. It will be deafening.

The wrath of God is described in the 6th seal not the 7th seal.

Okay, great. I'll roll with it.

Now describe what is going to happen in the wrath of God.

I already told you that but you keep insisting the 7th seal is wrath of God when nothing in the scriptures support that.

I need a short break. I can't stop laughing.

You claim.......LOL...........that there is nothing in the scriptures that support that the 7th seal is the wrath of God. LOL.

What do you think those 7 trumpets that the 7 angels sound are?

 

[Davy]

Oh boy. It seems God was very precise in numbering the order of events. If the events weren't to be understood in order, why would He number them?

Anyone that thinks that the 7th seal is 30 minutes of silence is very confused. You want to skip all those trumpets and vials because you can't figure this out.

Many of you present this tired old teaching that has been pounded into place in past years by those without understanding. It is the time of the end. Things are unsealed.

God put things in numbered order for a reason. The seals are in order, the trumpets are in order and the vials are in order.

The 7th seal is the wrath of God..................and it begins with 30 minutes of silence in heaven. If you think that is the wrath of God is silence in heaven, you are sadly mistaken. The wrath of God is 7 trumpets and 7 vials that take place in the 7th seal. The vials are just a different view of things that happen in the 7th seal.

Christ was MORE precise with describing the TYPE OF EVENT. And common sense by that ought to be the default method of understanding those events too, instead of trying to use some fake Jewish Gematria Occult method.

I've shown you, from the Scripture itself, those events of the 6th Seal, 7th Trumpet, and 7th Vial are all tied together as the SAME time when Jesus returns. TWICE... I showed that in my posts.

 

[Davy]

Yeah right. Those seven trumpets are nothing. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.
....

You've said NOTHING about that Joel 2:31 Scripture I quoted to you. Having problems with that, since it goes against your CLAIM that the sun turning into darkness, and the moon into blood is for AFTER... the tribulation?

Joel 2:31
31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.
KJV

Having problems with reading English in the above. Do you know what that word "before" means? And do you know WHEN that "day of the LORD" happens?

 

[The Light]

Christ was MORE precise with describing the TYPE OF EVENT. And common sense by that ought to be the default method of understanding those events too, instead of trying to use some fake Jewish Gematria Occult method.

LOL. Yeah. Lets not use the Word of God. Let's use the Word of Davy.

I've shown you, from the Scripture itself, those events of the 6th Seal, 7th Trumpet, and 7th Vial are all tied together as the SAME time when Jesus returns. TWICE... I showed that in my posts.

And I've shown you from scripture why you are in error. You attempt to change scripture by claiming the 6th seal is the same as the 7th trumpet and 7th vial, while the Word of God says the 7th trumpet and 7th vial are in the 7th seal.

You will never understand the Word of God until you accept what is written. Changing things around so they fit your doctrine is not wise. Make your doctrine what the Word of God says.

 

[Davy]

LOL. Yeah. Lets not use the Word of God. Let's use the Word of Davy.

....

Still nothing about the Joel 2:31 Scripture I quoted to him folks. He is scooting the Joel 2:31 evidence that I showed him.

 

[The Light]

You've said NOTHING about that Joel 2:31 Scripture I quoted to you. Having problems with that, since it goes against your CLAIM that the sun turning into darkness, and the moon into blood is for AFTER... the tribulation?

Oh, the blindness. The sun does darken, and the moon is as blood at the 6th seal. And the tribulation is over at the 6th seal. The tribulation is when Christians are hunted down and killed for their faith. Jesus returns at the 6th seal for a harvest prior to the wrath of God seen in Matthew 24 when the sun and moon are darkened, and the stars fall from heaven.

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

After the harvest at the 6th seal, the 7th seal is opened, and the wrath of God begins. Tribulation is not the wrath of God. However, the 7th trumpet and 7th vial are part of the wrath of God.

Joel 2:31
31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.
KJV

Having problems with reading English in the above. Do you know what that word "before" means? And do you know WHEN that "day of the LORD" happens?

It seems you are having problems as usual.

The sun and moon are darkened in the 6th seal which is BEFORE the Day of the Lord which is in the 7th seal.

 

[Davy]

Oh, the blindness. The sun does darken, and the moon is as blood at the 6th seal. And the tribulation is over at the 6th seal. The tribulation is when Christians are hunted down and killed for their faith. Jesus returns at the 6th seal for a harvest prior to the wrath of God seen in Matthew 24 when the sun and moon are darkened, and the stars fall from heaven.
....

Look brethren, he is still... scooting around that Joel 2:31 Scripture that shows the sun being darkened and the moon turned to blood happens BEFORE Christ's future coming on the "day of the LORD"! You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.