Is the Judgment Seat of Christ separate from the Great White Throne Judgment?

[dremnant]

Many bible teachers are claiming the believers will be facing the Judgment Seat of Christ, while the unbelievers will be facing the Great White Throne judgment. It is also being taught that these judgments shall take place separately. Does the scriptures support that teaching? Let's see what the Bible says...

John 5:22 (KJV)
For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son

Matthew 16:27 (KJV)
For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Revelation 22:12 (KJV)
And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

Matthew 7:22-23 (KJV)
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

I hope these verses are enough for everybody to understand that Jesus Christ will be the one sitting at the Great White Throne to judge every man, including unbelievers according to their works.

So, what did our scholars missed? Simple... the judgment seat of Christ (Romans 14:10; 2 Corinthians 5:10) is the same as the great white throne judgment (Revelation 20:11). What John described as a great white throne, Paul simply called it the judgment seat of Christ.

You won't find other books in the Bible where an author other than Paul mentioned the judgment seat of Christ. And you won't find a verse where Paul mentioned a great white throne.

Hope this post helps introduce some of you to the next level of understanding the Scriptures. Just make sure to ask the Holy Spirit to give you understanding. You will be thrilled to realize how much heavenly truth we don't yet know.

 

[ewq1938]

Joh 12:46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.
Joh 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Joh 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

This other "person" who sent Jesus shall be the one to judge on the last day. Jesus is very clear to say he isn't the one to do this.

Joh 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

Did you see that? Jesus is NOT speaking of himself as that "last-day" judge.


Joh 12:50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.


To recap:


"I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world" -Jesus speaking of himself.

"hath one that judgeth him" and "the same shall judge him in the last day" -Jesus speaking of his Father.

"I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me" -Jesus confirming a second time that he isn't going to be one the one judge on the last day. Jesus identifies the judge as his Father. Both Daniel and Revelation attest to this fact:




Dan 7:9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
Dan 7:10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.

"and the books were opened"


This is the Father judging not Jesus.


Gill

all, both small and great, as to age or dignity, will stand before the Judge, to be judged by him, and receive their sentence from him; and there will be books for that purpose, as here, even the same, and particularly the book of life, in which, if a man's name is not written, he will be cast into the lake of fire; see Rev_20:4, but in other things they differ; here the Judge is God the Father, the first Person in the Trinity, called the Ancient of days, distinguished from Christ, said to be like the Son of man

Dan 7:13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.


Jesus is clearly not the "ancient of days".

Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.


"and the books were opened"

Same event, and it's the Father judging, not the Son on this day. Also, In the book of Revelation, "God" is a reference to "God the Father", not to God the Son.


1 Peter 1:17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:


Here Peter also addresses that time when the Father judges "according to every man's work"...that's the great white throne judgement day, the last day. See how it is exactly what we find on judgment day:

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.



Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

Here Jesus is distinct from the other one called "God the Judge of all". Often writers will refer to God meaning the Father and mention Jesus separately to make clear the use of "God" meant "God the Father" not "God the son".

We see that here as well:


This is God the Father because verse 22 will distinguish Jesus separately:


Rom 3:6 God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world?
Rom 3:7 For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?
Rom 3:8 And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just.
Rom 3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
Rom 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
Rom 3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
Rom 3:13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
Rom 3:14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
Rom 3:15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:
Rom 3:16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:
Rom 3:17 And the way of peace have they not known:
Rom 3:18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.
Rom 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:


1 Peter 1:17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

compare to this:

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

"the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work"
"And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God" and "they were judged every man according to their works"

Clearly it is the Father judging in Rev 20.



Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Here John refers to the Father as "God" and Jesus as "Christ". Though Christ is God, in the book of Revelation John will refer to the Father as God, and the Son by other titles. This is how we know who is who.

Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

God the Father does the judging here.

 

[Scott Downey]

Believers wont come under judgment regarding eternal life, they are not subject to the second death, they escape that completely. But they will be judged each one according to their works. Since Christ's will is to do the Father's will the judgment is in effect the same outcome.

John 5
24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

25 Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live. 26 For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself, 27 and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man.

28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

30 I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me.

People are judged at His appearing and kingdom on the last day.

2 Tim 4
I charge you [a]therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead [b]at His appearing and His kingdom

So when Christ returns on the Last Day, at His appearing, is the resurrection and the judgement.



John 12:48
He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him— the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.

John 11:24
Martha said to Him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.”

Acts 24:15
I have hope in God, which they themselves also accept, that there will be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and the unjust.

John 5
28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice
29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

Romans 14
9 For to this end Christ died [b]and rose and lived again, that He might be Lord of both the dead and the living. 10 But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of [c]Christ. 11 For it is written:

“As I live, says the Lord,
Every knee shall bow to Me,
And every tongue shall confess to God.”
12 So then each of us shall give account of himself to God.

 

[Scott Downey]

Matthew 25

31 “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the [c]holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory.

32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats.

33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left.

34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? 38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39 Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40 And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’

41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’

44 “Then they also will answer [d]Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ 45 Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’

46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

 

[Scott Downey]

Everyone's deeds, works throughout their lives are recorded by angels in their own books.

Revelation 20:12
And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.

So in Matthew 25, the outcomes are already decided. God knows those who are His.
The day of judgement does not have to be some age long drawn-out experience, (so many billions of life stories) as the judgment is based on what you did in life, and all that is recorded in evidence.

Matthew 12
35 A good man out of the good treasure [a]of his heart brings forth good things, and an evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth evil things.
36 But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment.
37 For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.”


Did you believe and confess Christ before men, were you led by the Spirit? If so, you are one of the sons of God. Well done and good, for you as you will inherit eternal life, you made the good confession in front of witnesses and Christ will acknowledge you before the Father as knowing you.

Did you reject Christ and His words, and were you doing the works of the flesh? Did you follow a false Christ? Of which Jesus warned us about, that false Christ's would arise and deceive many.
Well, your judgment of being worthy for the lake of fire is sure and certain. Christ will say I never knew you.

Matthew 7
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’

23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

 

[dremnant]

Joh 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Joh 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

This other "person" who sent Jesus shall be the one to judge on the last day. Jesus is very clear to say he isn't the one to do this.

Joh 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

Did you see that? Jesus is NOT speaking of himself as that "last-day" judge.

To recap:


"I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world" -Jesus speaking of himself.

"hath one that judgeth him" and "the same shall judge him in the last day" -Jesus speaking of his Father.

When Jesus said He came not to judge this world, He was referring to His earthly ministry. His first coming is to give salvation by sacrificing Himself at the cross of Calvary. But on His second coming, He will be a judge...

Matthew 25:31-33 (KJV)
[31] When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: [32] And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: [33] And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

You are mixing up Christ's role on His first coming with His 2nd coming. That's not rightly dividing the word of truth.

You also highlighted the wrong phrases in John 12:48 to twist the meaning of it. Here's what you deliberately ignored...

He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

It clearly says the Word that Jesus had spoken shall be the Judge in the last day. The Father is not the Word. That is the very first thing taught in the first chapter of the book of John. Go back to the basic teaching of the Scriptures.

And what makes it hard for you to understand what is written in John 5:22?

For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son

It's straightforward, and only a spiritually blind person would not see it as it is. The Father will not be judging any man at the last day, because He has given ALL JUDGMENT to the Son.

 

[Scott Downey]

Jesus did say this,

Matthew 28:18
And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.

The parable of the Minas teaches us Christ judges the world and His servants on the Day of Judgment at His return. Both His servants and the ones who hate Him, are judged at the same time, not a 1000 years later.

A reckoning of the laborers of the Master when He returns, (judgement of them by their works). And the absolute destruction of those who hate Him, (those who do not know God and those who do not obey the gospel)

Remembering Psalm 24:1 'The earth is the Lord’s, and all its fullness, The world and those who dwell therein' in understanding this parable.

The Parable of the Minas​

11 Now as they heard these things, He spoke another parable, because He was near Jerusalem and because they thought the kingdom of God would appear immediately. 12 Therefore He said: “A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom and to return. 13 So he called ten of his servants, delivered to them ten [e]minas, and said to them, ‘Do business till I come.’ 14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a delegation after him, saying, ‘We will not have this man to reign over us.’

15 “And so it was that when he returned, having received the kingdom, he then commanded these servants, to whom he had given the money, to be called to him, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading. 16 Then came the first, saying, ‘Master, your mina has earned ten minas.’ 17 And he said to him, ‘Well done, good servant; because you were faithful in a very little, have authority over ten cities.’ 18 And the second came, saying, ‘Master, your mina has earned five minas.’ 19 Likewise he said to him, ‘You also be over five cities.’

20 “Then another came, saying, ‘Master, here is your mina, which I have kept put away in a handkerchief. 21 For I feared you, because you are [f]an austere man. You collect what you did not deposit, and reap what you did not sow.’ 22 And he said to him, ‘Out of your own mouth I will judge you, you wicked servant. You knew that I was an austere man, collecting what I did not deposit and reaping what I did not sow. 23 Why then did you not put my money in the bank, that at my coming I might have collected it with interest?’

24 “And he said to those who stood by, ‘Take the mina from him, and give it to him who has ten minas.’ 25 (But they said to him, ‘Master, he has ten minas.’) 26 ‘For I say to you, that to everyone who has will be given; and from him who does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him.

27 But bring here those enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, and slay them before me.’ ”

 

[dremnant]

Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

1 Peter 1:17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

You probably don't understand when the Father gives all judgment to the Son, it shall be treated as if the Father Himself is doing the judgement. This is similar to pharaoh giving his ring to Joseph (Gen 41:42) to make all the decisions and decrees. And pharaoh and the people treated all decisions made by Joseph as if it's coming directly from pharaoh.

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

There's something you are forgetting here...Christ is seated at the right hand of the Father. When you stand before God, you are standing before the Father and the Son at the same time.

 

[dremnant]

@Scott Downey,
Your posts are typically long and I tend to miss important details when reading posts like that. So, my apology in advance if I miss addressing points you may need addressed.

People are judged at His appearing and kingdom on the last day.

2 Tim 4
I charge you [a]therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead [b]at His appearing and His kingdom

So when Christ returns on the Last Day, at His appearing, is the resurrection and the judgement.

Romans 14
9 For to this end Christ died [b]and rose and lived again, that He might be Lord of both the dead and the living. 10 But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of [c]Christ. 11 For it is written:

“As I live, says the Lord,
Every knee shall bow to Me,
And every tongue shall confess to God.”
12 So then each of us shall give account of himself to God.

Matthew 25

31 “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the [c]holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory.

32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats.

33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left.

All the above texts you have quoted describe the great white throne judgment in Revelation 20:11-15.

And the text you quoted below also explains why Jesus Christ Himself (not the Father) will be the Judge (same teaching as in John 5:22 and other texts I shared in this thread).

Jesus did say this,

Matthew 28:18
And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.

 

[marks]

Many bible teachers are claiming the believers will be facing the Judgment Seat of Christ, while the unbelievers will be facing the Great White Throne judgment. It is also being taught that these judgments shall take place separately. Does the scriptures support that teaching? Let's see what the Bible says...

John 5:22 (KJV)
For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son

Matthew 16:27 (KJV)
For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Revelation 22:12 (KJV)
And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

Matthew 7:22-23 (KJV)
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

I hope these verses are enough for everybody to understand that Jesus Christ will be the one sitting at the Great White Throne to judge every man, including unbelievers according to their works.

So, what did our scholars missed? Simple... the judgment seat of Christ (Romans 14:10; 2 Corinthians 5:10) is the same as the great white throne judgment (Revelation 20:11). What John described as a great white throne, Paul simply called it the judgment seat of Christ.

You won't find other books in the Bible where an author other than Paul mentioned the judgment seat of Christ. And you won't find a verse where Paul mentioned a great white throne.

Hope this post helps introduce some of you to the next level of understanding the Scriptures. Just make sure to ask the Holy Spirit to give you understanding. You will be thrilled to realize how much heavenly truth we don't yet know.

Isn't this an argument from silence?

I have a particular issue with this interpretation. John, writing of the great white throne judgment, said, I saw the dead, great and small . . .

The redeemed are not "the dead".

Much love!

 

[dremnant]

Isn't this an argument from silence?

I have a particular issue with this interpretation. John, writing of the great white throne judgment, said, I saw the dead, great and small . . .

The redeemed are not "the dead".

Much love!

Don't forget those who are part of the first resurrection who shall reign with Christ were also called "the dead".

Revelations 20:4-5 (KJV)
[4] And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. [5] But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

 

[marks]

Don't forget those who are part of the first resurrection who shall reign with Christ were also called "the dead".

Revelations 20:4-5 (KJV)
[4] And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. [5] But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Just the same, those who stand before the throne are "the dead", and have not received a resurrection.

The statement "this is the first resurrection" could apply to those who lived and reigned with Christ. In saying, "this", the meaning is "the one close by". These lived and reigned with Christ. The rest of the dead lived not again until the 1000 years were finished. This is the first resurrection. The resurrection that is close, not far.

And should we conversely understand "that is the second resurrection"?

Regardless of how you interpret this, I would not consider it specific sufficient to say with certainty, This is it. Jesus said, "My reward is with Me." To me this suggests an earlier judgment for believers.

Much love!

 

[marks]

All the above texts you have quoted describe the great white throne judgment in Revelation 20:11-15.

The sheep and goats judgment is 1000 years + earlier than the GWT judgment. The Sheep/Goats is when Jesus returns, before the 1000 years, according to the text.

Much love!

 

[dremnant]

Just the same, those who stand before the throne are "the dead", and have not received a resurrection.

They stand before the throne with their resurrected bodies.

Let me show you what many is missing...

First resurrection (Rev 20:4-6) -- These are believers who were murdered, and shall reign with Christ for 1000 years. They are the only group who can go to the lake of fire without dying (Rev 20:6). Because of this power, they can take the devil and his minions to the lake of fire (second death) without getting hurt themselves. All believers who dies a natural death will not make it to this group.

Second resurrection (Rev 20:12) -- These group will be judged according to their works and based on what is written in the books. Those whose names are found in the book of life (Christians who were not murdered) makes it to the new heaven and new earth. Those whose names are not found in the book of life (fake Christians and those who rejected Christ) are thrown in the lake of fire.

Third resurrection (Rev 20:13) -- This group will not be judged using the books, as these are those who died without knowledge of the Gospel or the Bible...but will be judged according to their works. Those whose names are found in the book of life (aborted babies make it to this group) shall make it to the new earth. And we know what happens to those whose names are not in the book of life.

The sheep and goats judgment is 1000 years + earlier than the GWT judgment. The Sheep/Goats is when Jesus returns, before the 1000 years, according to the text.

Can you quote the part of the Scriptures stating it shall happen in that order?

 

[marks]

Can you quote the part of the Scriptures stating it shall happen in that order?

Matthew 24:30 KJV
30) And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Matthew 25:31-33 KJV
31) When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32) And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33) And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

Much love!

 

[marks]

First resurrection (Rev 20:4-6) -- These are believers who were murdered, and shall reign with Christ for 1000 years. They are the only group who can go to the lake of fire without dying (Rev 20:6). Because of this power, they can take the devil and his minions to the lake of fire (second death) without getting hurt themselves. All believers who dies a natural death will not make it to this group.

The redeemed going into the lake of fire? I don't see that in the Bible.

Revelation 20:10 KJV
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Where do you see the redeeded taking Satan into the lake of fire? I'm reading that he is just tossed in.

Much love!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Many bible teachers are claiming the believers will be facing the Judgment Seat of Christ, while the unbelievers will be facing the Great White Throne judgment. It is also being taught that these judgments shall take place separately. Does the scriptures support that teaching?

No, it does not. The following passage teaches that both believers and unbelievers will stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

Romans 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. 11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. 12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

The way we can confirm that this is talking about both believers and unbelievers is by looking at the Old Testament prophecy that Paul referenced in verse 11. Which is this....

Isaiah 45:22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. 23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear. 24 Surely, shall one say, in the Lord have I righteousness and strength: even to him shall men come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed.

Notice here that even those "that are incensed against him" and "shall be ashamed" will be bowing their knees to the Lord. So, this shows that when Paul references this passage from Isaiah, he is showing that all believers and all unbelievers will stand before the judgment seat of Christ to give an account of themselves.

Also, in Matthew 25:31-46 it clearly portrays both believers and unbelievers standing before Christ to be judged as well.

Let's see what the Bible says...

John 5:22 (KJV)
For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son

Matthew 16:27 (KJV)
For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Revelation 22:12 (KJV)
And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

Matthew 7:22-23 (KJV)
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

I hope these verses are enough for everybody to understand that Jesus Christ will be the one sitting at the Great White Throne to judge every man, including unbelievers according to their works.

Agree. So, with this in mind, I don't understand why you are a Premillennialist. At least, it seems that you are based on other posts you've made. Don't you think that the judgment portrayed in Matthew 25:31-46, which occurs right after Jesus comes with His angels, is the same as the Great White Throne judgment? Surely, the reference to the goats being "cast into everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels" (Matthew 25:41) is the same as the reference to those whose names are not written in the book of life being cast into the lake of fire (Rev 20:15).

So, what did our scholars missed? Simple... the judgment seat of Christ (Romans 14:10; 2 Corinthians 5:10) is the same as the great white throne judgment (Revelation 20:11). What John described as a great white throne, Paul simply called it the judgment seat of Christ.

Agree.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Joh 12:46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.
Joh 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Joh 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

This other "person" who sent Jesus shall be the one to judge on the last day. Jesus is very clear to say he isn't the one to do this.

Joh 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

Did you see that? Jesus is NOT speaking of himself as that "last-day" judge.

No, I don't see that at all. What I see here is extreme doctrinal bias. Do you just completely disregard this verse?

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

What Jesus was saying in John 12:49 is NOT that He was not speaking of Himself as the judge He was talking about in verse 48. Do you ever look at other translations? The KJV is worded a bit strangely sometimes, so it can help to look at other translations.

Here is the NIV translation of that verse.

John 12:48 There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the last day. 49 For I did not speak on my own, but the Father who sent me commanded me to say all that I have spoken.

This makes it more clear that what Jesus was saying in verse 49 is that He was not speaking on His own accord, but rather what the Father commanded Him to say. That has nothing to do with determining who the judge is that Jesus was talking about in verse 48. Clearly, He is the judge that He was talking about or else John 5:22 would not be true. You have failed to take other scripture into account here, so you have interpreted John 12:48 in such a way that contradicts John 5:22. But, you don't even think of such things because you unwisely try to interpret scripture verses or passages in isolation from the rest of scripture.

To recap:


"I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world" -Jesus speaking of himself.

Again, you misinterpret scripture. This simply means that the first time He came He did not come to judge the world. That does not mean He won't judge the world at His second coming. Matthew 25:31-46 makes it very clear that He will judge the world at His second coming. I'm not going to waste my time reading the rest of your post because it is annoying to see someone misinterpret verse after verse the way you do.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

When Jesus said He came not to judge this world, He was referring to His earthly ministry. His first coming is to give salvation by sacrificing Himself at the cross of Calvary. But on His second coming, He will be a judge...

Matthew 25:31-33 (KJV)
[31] When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: [32] And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: [33] And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

You are mixing up Christ's role on His first coming with His 2nd coming. That's not rightly dividing the word of truth.

Exactly! I just made a similar point in my latest post before I read this. That person clearly interprets scripture with doctrinal bias which leads him to take scripture out of context.

You also highlighted the wrong phrases in John 12:48 to twist the meaning of it. Here's what you deliberately ignored...

He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

It clearly says the Word that Jesus had spoken shall be the Judge in the last day. The Father is not the Word. That is the very first thing taught in the first chapter of the book of John. Go back to the basic teaching of the Scriptures.

Great point. Agree.

And what makes it hard for you to understand what is written in John 5:22?

For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son

I made this same point as well. Glad to see that we're on the same page on this. How can someone determine that anyone but Christ will judge anyone in light of what that verse clearly says?

It's straightforward, and only a spiritually blind person would not see it as it is.

Totally agree. And, I mean, they have to be 100% spiritually blind to not see it. It's that clear and straightforward.

The Father will not be judging any man at the last day, because He has given ALL JUDGMENT to the Son.

Agree.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Isn't this an argument from silence?

I have a particular issue with this interpretation. John, writing of the great white throne judgment, said, I saw the dead, great and small . . .

The redeemed are not "the dead".

Much love!

Do you require that all details regarding an event have to be included in any passage which refers to that event? Or do you allow that one passage about that event can contain details about it the another passage does not and vice versa?

Do you acknowledge that this verse will be fulfilled when Jesus comes with His angels at His second coming, as indicated in Matthew 25:31-46?

Matthew 25:41 Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

Do you think the above verse is talking about something different than what is referred to in this verse:

Revelation 20:15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.