The Coming Rapture

[The Light]

There is no rapture at the 6th seal.

There is a rapture at the 6th seal as shown below.

Here is the 6th seal being opened. The sun and moon are darkened, and the stars fall from heaven.

Revelation 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

Here are the sun and moon darkened and the stars falling from heaven in Matthew 24 occurring at the 6th seal. Note that Jesus sends His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth. This is a rapture and it occurs at the 6th seal.

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

The rapture occurs in Rev 11 when the mystery of God is finished and the saints are resurrected and rewarded:

Rv 11:15-18
And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

The dead are judged after the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord. But this is not a rapture.

It seems unscriptural to you because you don't understand the scriptures. The 7th Trumpet is also the LAST Trumpet because there are no more trumpets after that. It couldn't be any more clearer to an open and honest mind.

I was looking in 1st and 2nd Thessalonians to try and find where Paul would clarify what the last trump was. Couldn't find anything but since John didn't write Revelation until somewhere around 95AD it must have been quite confusing to the believers.

Do you think Paul said something like this..................I know there has been a lot of confusion regarding the last trump. Everyone keeps asking when the last trump will occur. John will get a revelation in the future and clear all this up. In the meantime quit asking this question.

Or was there no confusion because the Jews all knew when the last trump was. It is blown on the Feast of Trumpets.

The wrath begins during the vail judgements. in Rev 16.These happen after the 7 trumpets.

Rv 16:1
And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.

This is incorrect. Both the trumpet and vial judgements occur during the 7th seal wrath of God. At the 7th trumpet, the mystery of God is finished. The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord. That means that Armageddon has already happened.

Revelation 11
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Christ has already returned and set up His kingdom at the 7th trumpet. The trumpets and vials occur in the same timeframe which is the 7th seal.

However, you are misquoting 1 Th 5. and taking it out of context . The wrath that we are saved from in that verse is eternal damnation. Let's look at it:
1 Th 5:9
For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

as we can see, the contrast to wrath in this verse is SALVATION...it is not the wrath of rev 16.

Oh, I'm in context. We are not appointed to wrath. Other than the two witnesses' believers will not be on the earth when the wrath of God occurs.

Hebrews 9
28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

At the 6th seal the tribulation is over. The 7th seal is the wrath of God. If God does not shorten the great tribulation, there would be no flesh that is raptured alive unto salvation. All that are saved would come out of the grave.

Matthew 24
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Only in some fantasy invention of the human mind. Go tell the people who are being murdered and tortured for their faith at this very minute how there is some soon to come secret hidden rapture that will deliver them from suffering. They would look at you as if yuo are crazy...you see, they are already taking all the pain they can bear. They couldn't stomach some Mcdonalds happy meal eschatological error that twists and wrests scripture into a sad caricature of what is to come.

Is scripture fantasy? I believe what is written, and that is that we can escape ALL THESE THINGS and stand before the Son of man.

Luke 21
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Once again you show your scriptural ignorance. The wrath of God doesn't take place until Rev 16 . In fact Rev 16:15 tells us that Jesus has not yet come:

Would it be ignorant to not understand that when the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord at the 7th trumpet, Armageddon has already happened.

The trumpets and vials of wrath occur in the 7th seal. You are not understanding what you are reading.

Rv 16:15
Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

It is clear that the second coming and rapture occur at the 7th Trumpet. An angel was sent to specifically swear the mystery of God would be finished at the 7th(LAST) Trumpet

Rv 10:5-7
And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven,
And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:
But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

Let's look once again at what happens when the 7th trumpet is blown:

Rv 11:15-18
And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

How could it not be anymore clearer?

It doesn't need to be any clearer. Unless you don't understand that when the 7th trumpet sounds, Armageddon has already occurred.

For some reason you haven't figured out that the vials of wrath occur in the 7th seal. The 7th trumpet sounds, and the mystery of God is finished. There will be no more vials of wrath. They have already been poured out.

 

[The Light]

You keep saying that the rapture happens at the 6th seal.

"A" rapture happens at the 6th seal.

Lets look at it and see what truly happens. (by the way, this is after the 5th seal when the saints are persecuted and martyred

Rv 6:12-17
And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

As we can see, there is no super secret rapture for those that got the secret mystery decoder ring from their eschatological fast food happy meal.

I agree there is no secret rapture in these verses. The rapture of the Church happens before any seals are opened. The scripture that you posted is the 6th seal. Is there a rapture at the 6th seal? Yes there is.

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Don't you see the signs with the sun and moon darkened and the stars falling from heaven at the 6th seal and at the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24? There is a rapture in Matthew 24. Not the Church, they are already in heaven. If you didn't understand that there is a rapture at the 6th seal, you probably also missed the secret rapture of the Church.

The scripture speaks of one rapture at the last trump which is the same as the 7th trumpet. This is something that you seem to overlook.

I understand that the last trump is blown on the Feast of Trumpets, just like the Jews understand. There is no rapture at the 7th trumpet blown by an angel.

The last trump is also the 7th because there is no other trump after it.

Do you not understand that the 7th trumpet blown by an angel is not the last trump that is blown. The Feast of Tabernacles will be celebrated, and trumpets are blown on this feast.

Zechariah 14
16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

It has nothing to do with a "harvest feast" You are giving heed to jewish fables:

Tit 1:14
Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.

Colossians 17
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

His feet never touch the ground because he doesn't come at the 6th seal. He comes at the 7th trumpet when he judges the dead and rewards the faithful

Are you unable to see in blue that the signs of the sun and moon are darkened and the stars falling from heaven occur when the Jesus appears in heaven and sends His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth? Are you unable to see that the very same signs occur at the 6th seal? Are you unable to conclude that Jesus returns at the 6th seal based on the Word of God?

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Revelation 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

 

[Keraz]

Are you unable to see in blue that the signs of the sun and moon are darkened and the stars falling from heaven occur when the Jesus appears in heaven and sends His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth? Are you unable to see that the very same signs occur at the 6th seal? Are you unable to conclude that Jesus returns at the 6th seal based on the Word of God?

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Revelation 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is

Seems it is you who is unable to differentiate between the moon darkened and the moon blood red.
Revelation 6:12-17 is an entirely separate Prophecy from Matthew 24:29-31.

The Sixth Seal actual Day of the Lord; sets the scene for all that must take place before Jesus Returns, over a period of at least 10 years.
The glorious Return is the Great Day of Almighty God. Revelation 16:14b

 

[shepherdsword]

"A" rapture happens at the 6th seal.


I agree there is no secret rapture in these verses. The rapture of the Church happens before any seals are opened.

With the rapture comes the resurrection. There is no rapture or resurrection before the seals. Keraz has shown that Revelation 6:12-17 is an entirely separate Prophecy from Matthew 24:29-31. However, lets say, for the sake of the argument, that I agree with you and move on.

The scripture that you posted is the 6th seal. Is there a rapture at the 6th seal? Yes there is.

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Don't you see the signs with the sun and moon darkened and the stars falling from heaven at the 6th seal and at the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24? There is a rapture in Matthew 24. Not the Church, they are already in heaven. If you didn't understand that there is a rapture at the 6th seal, you probably also missed the secret rapture of the Church.

Do you not see that all of this happens AFTER the tribulation? That this sound of a trumpet is the last and also 7th trumpet? Thanks for proving my point. There is no secret rapture here. Now, if you agree with that then provide some proof that a mythical secret rapture ever occurs.

I understand that the last trump is blown on the Feast of Trumpets, just like the Jews understand. There is no rapture at the 7th trumpet blown by an angel.


Do you not understand that the 7th trumpet blown by an angel is not the last trump that is blown. The Feast of Tabernacles will be celebrated, and trumpets are blown on this feast.

Zechariah 14
16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

This feast occurs in the millennial kingdom and is outside the context of the revelation judgements.

Colossians 17
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.


Are you unable to see in blue that the signs of the sun and moon are darkened and the stars falling from heaven occur when the Jesus appears in heaven and sends His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth? Are you unable to see that the very same signs occur at the 6th seal? Are you unable to conclude that Jesus returns at the 6th seal based on the Word of God?

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Stop proving my point. This doesn't refer to the secret rapture you promote. Let's see a verse that justifies that.

Revelation 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

For the sake of the argument lets agree this could refer to the second coming. How does this justify some errant view that there is a secret rapture? It obviously occurs after the tribulation.

 

[ewq1938]

With the rapture comes the resurrection. There is no rapture or resurrection before the seals. Keraz has shown that Revelation 6:12-17 is an entirely separate Prophecy from Matthew 24:29-31.

Funny thing though, the seals are prophecies of events that happen AFTER the seals are opened. None of the seal's events happen when the seals are opened.

That's why Jesus doesn't leave heaven after opening the 6th seal. All John saw was future events. Jesus didn't leave to take part in the 6th seal's events because they are prophecies of the future, events that take place in the trumps. The 6th seal is the prophecy of the 7th trump's events.

 

[shepherdsword]

Funny thing though, the seals are prophecies of events that happen AFTER the seals are opened. None of the seal's events happen when the seals are opened.

That's why Jesus doesn't leave heaven after opening the 6th seal. All John saw was future events. Jesus didn't leave to take part in the 6th seal's events because they are prophecies of the future, events that take place in the trumps. The 6th seal is the prophecy of the 7th trump's events.

I remember you from the old Bible Forums board. It's good to see you are still alive and well...I was "shepherdsword" over there.
Blessings

 

[ewq1938]

I remember you from the old Bible Forums board. It's good to see you are still alive and well...I was "shepherdsword" over there.
Blessings

Nice to see you again :)

 

[The Light]

Seems it is you who is unable to differentiate between the moon darkened and the moon blood red.
Revelation 6:12-17 is an entirely separate Prophecy from Matthew 24:29-31.

Again we have to go through this. Have you never seen a lunar eclipse. Look on YouTube. The moon turns to blood and then is darkened in a lunar eclipse. The evidence is on YouTube.

The Sixth Seal actual Day of the Lord;

The 6th seal isn't the Day of the Lord.

The seventh seal is the day of wrath.

sets the scene for all that must take place before Jesus Returns, over a period of at least 10 years.
The glorious Return is the Great Day of Almighty God. Revelation 16:14b

Boy are you going to be in for a shock. There is not a 10 year period.

 

[The Light]

Funny thing though, the seals are prophecies of events that happen AFTER the seals are opened. None of the seal's events happen when the seals are opened.

Poppycock.

That's why Jesus doesn't leave heaven after opening the 6th seal.

Strange. The Word says He sends His angels to gather the elect at the 6th seal.

All John saw was future events. Jesus didn't leave to take part in the 6th seal's events because they are prophecies of the future, events that take place in the trumps. The 6th seal is the prophecy of the 7th trump's events.

Poppycock.

John had a vision of what happens when the seals are opened. When the seal is actually opened, the event will happen.

 

[ewq1938]

John had a vision of what happens when the seals are opened. When the seal is actually opened, the event will happen.

Wrong. It is a vision of the future. I already explained why John does not say Jesus took off real fast to take part in those events. Your best reply was just "poppycock" which means "I don't agree but I cannot dispute what you have said".

 

[The Light]

Wrong. It is a vision of the future. I already explained why John does not say Jesus took off real fast to take part in those events. Your best reply was just "poppycock" which means "I don't agree but I cannot dispute what you have said".

This is just something you have made up because you don't know how all the pieces fit in the puzzle.

It's easy to put a puzzle to together when you leave half the pieces out.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Jesus Returns as King of Kings and Lord of Lords; does He immediately hand the Kingdom to the Father?

Yes, according to Paul. But, I have noticed that many people here do not accept at least some of what Paul taught.

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

Do you believe that Jesus will return at the end of the age? If so, He also taught that He will hand the kingdom to the Father at that time.

Matthew 13:40 “As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. 41 The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. 42 They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Whoever has ears, let them hear.

Not according to Revelation 20 and many other Prophesies which describe the Millennium.

Wrong. You are blatantly contradicting the prophecies which teach that no mortals will survive the return of Christ and that He will deliver the kingdom to the Father when He returns.

You seem committed to the AMill belief, but to deny Jesus Hs rightful rule is very unwise,

I don't do that, so you're just lying here. It's unwise for you to deny what the passages I quoted above and many others teach.

 

[Davy]

There is a rapture at the 6th seal as shown below.

Here is the 6th seal being opened. The sun and moon are darkened, and the stars fall from heaven.

Revelation 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

Here are the sun and moon darkened and the stars falling from heaven in Matthew 24 occurring at the 6th seal. Note that Jesus sends His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth. This is a rapture and it occurs at the 6th seal.

BRETHREN IN CHRIST JESUS:
Don't be deceived along with the above rhetoric.

The first part of the 6th SEAL of Revelation 6, with the stars falling as "untimely figs" is about the coming "great tribulation" time when Satan and his angels are cast down to this earth, in OUR earthly dimension, which will begin the false worship in Jerusalem for the end that Lord Jesus warned us about in His Olivet discourse.

The 6th SEAL of Revelation 6:12-17 is in TWO PARTS.

FIRST PART:
Rev 6:12-17
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

Joel 2:30-31 mentions those "... wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke...," with "... the sun turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of the LORD come."

So those above Rev.6:12 signs are for the very end of this world, but NOT for the day of Christ's future coming on the "day of the Lord".


What's that "... stars of heaven fell unto the earth" about? Who really... thinks that's about Christ's coming to gather His Church?!*! NOT!

We were shown in Rev.9 with John seeing a star that fell from heaven who was given the key to the bottomless pit. And then later at Rev.9:11 we are shown about Satan as that "king" who is "the angel of the bottomless pit". Then at Revelation 12:3-4 we are shown about Satan as that "red dragon" who originally drew one third of the stars (angels) to earth, pointing back to the time of Lucifer's original rebellion against God. And then at Rev.12:7, with that war in Heaven between Archangel Michael and his angels vs. Satan and his angels, then Satan and his angels are cast out... of the heavenly, down to this earth. That war in heaven has not happened yet today.

Thus that Rev.6:13 "the stars of heaven fell unto earth" is actually about Satan and his angels being CAST DOWN upon this earth after that Rev.12:7 war in heaven with Archangel Michael and his angels. That casting down event is for the coming "great tribulation" timing.


So what's that with Satan and his angels being cast down like "untimely figs" idea?

This is VERY IMPORTANT to understand.
The idea of "untimely figs" in REAL fig horticulture is about the WINTER FIG that grows in the Winter, but then falls off in the Spring (yes, the winter fig is a real fig). Jesus is giving a warning in metaphor form by using that "untimely figs" idea. It involves His warning for the end of this world about the FAKE-Messiah that comes first and will play Jesus Christ - Messiah, in Jerusalem.

The coming pseudo-Christ of Matthew 24:23-26, is actually in the SINGULAR tense there, not plural like the KJV translators made it in their English translation. Dr. James Strong translated Greek pseudochristos as 'a spurious Messiah', singular tense. And the Matt.24:23 & 26 verses are in the singular context about a specific false-Messiah.

The idea of that spurious Messiah, a false one who comes first prior to Christ's future return, is what that "untimely figs" metaphor is about. That is about Satan with his angels cast down to this earth in our earthly dimension for the tribulation time. Satan as the coming Antichrist/false-Messiah comes EARLY, like an untimely winter fig. Got it?

So this untimely figs idea here in Rev.6:13 is definitely NOT... about the event of Christ's future coming to gather His Church! Instead, it is about the false-Messiah that comes first, EARLY, prior to Christ's coming.

Thus The Light has things BACKWARDS, wrongly interpreting the above Rev.6:12-13 is about Christ's coming to RAPTURE the Church!!!

SECOND PART:
14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, "Fall on us, and hide us from the face of Him That sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?"
KJV

The above Rev.6:14-17 Scripture is a SECOND PART event of that 6th SEAL.

This SECOND PART of the 6th SEAL is... about the day of Christ's future coming on the "day of the Lord". the LAST DAY of this present world. That is the day when God's cup of wrath, the 7th Vial, is poured out, ending this present world, with man's works being burned off this earth by God's "consuming fire" (2 Peter 3:10; Rev.16:15+).

 

[Keraz]

Yes, according to Paul

Pauls Prophecy in 1 Cor 15:22-23, is correct, but he omits the Millennium. Which we know does come after Jesus Returns.
It is illogical and unscriptural to think Jesus never reigns as King over the world.

You are blatantly contradicting the prophecies which teach that no mortals will survive the return of Christ

The proof that many will be alive after Jesus Returns is in Prophesies like Isaiah 65:20, Isaiah 2:1-5, Zechariah 14:16-21

It's unwise for you to deny what the passages I quoted above and many others teach.

That many are wrong is what Daniel 12:6b is saying.

 

[The Light]

BRETHREN IN CHRIST JESUS:
Don't be deceived along with the above rhetoric.

The first part of the 6th SEAL of Revelation 6, with the stars falling as "untimely figs" is about the coming "great tribulation"

Yeah great. You think that the tribulation is about to begin when the 6th seal signs of the sun, moon and stars occur.

And yet Jesus says that the great tribulation is over at the signs of the sun, moon and stars.

As usual, I'll go with Jesus on this. You can mutter around with claims that are unscriptural if that is your goal. Don't you even want to know the truth?

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

 

[The Light]

The idea of that spurious Messiah, a false one who comes first prior to Christ's future return, is what that "untimely figs" metaphor is about. That is about Satan with his angels cast down to this earth in our earthly dimension for the tribulation time. Satan as the coming Antichrist/false-Messiah comes EARLY, like an untimely winter fig. Got it?

So this untimely figs idea here in Rev.6:13 is definitely NOT... about the event of Christ's future coming to gather His Church! Instead, it is about the false-Messiah that comes first, EARLY, prior to Christ's coming.

Thus The Light has things BACKWARDS, wrongly interpreting the above Rev.6:12-13 is about Christ's coming to RAPTURE the Church!!!

Great. The stars of heaven are cast to the earth. You have figured something out.

But you want to skip the harvest that occurs immediately after the great tribulation.

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

[The Light]

Thus The Light has things BACKWARDS, wrongly interpreting the above Rev.6:12-13 is about Christ's coming to RAPTURE the Church!!!

I challenge you to find a post where I say the rapture of the CHURCH occurs at the 6th seal. The Church will be in heaven before the seals are opened.

The six seal is opened IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION...............so how could the Church be raptured pretrib is it is raptured at the 6th seal?

 

[ewq1938]

This is just something you have made up because you don't know how all the pieces fit in the puzzle.

Nope. It's factual and you cannot dispute it but because it proves your interpretation to be wrong. You disagree without any evidence supporting your disagreement.

The fact that Jesus does not leave heaven when he opens the 6th seal proves the events of the 6th seal do not happen at the opening of the seal. If you want to grow in knowledge, you will accept this, but if you want to stagnate in your current views then reject it.

 

[The Light]

Nope. It's factual and you cannot dispute it but because it proves your interpretation to be wrong. You disagree without any evidence supporting your disagreement.

The fact that Jesus does not leave heaven when he opens the 6th seal proves the events of the 6th seal do not happen at the opening of the seal. If you want to grow in knowledge, you will accept this, but if you want to stagnate in your current views then reject it.

LOL.

Let me help you.

The first 4 seals that John has a vision of are the beginning of sorrows in Matthew 24.
The fifth seal is the great tribulation of Matthew 24.
The 6th seal is the coming of Jesus for a harvest. He opens the seal and heads to earth. He sends His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth. All return to heaven for the marriage supper. That is why there is a great multitude in heaven in Rev 7.

You say.........."The fact that Jesus does not leave heaven when he opens the 6th seal proves the events of the 6th seal do not happen at the opening of the seal."

Your facts are in error. Jesus does leave heaven as shown in Matthew 24.

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

So you are in error, and you need to figure out the end times scenario using all the pieces to the puzzle.

 

[The Light]

With the rapture comes the resurrection. There is no rapture or resurrection before the seals.

Certainly there is. The kings and priests in heaven in Revelation 5 are the Church

Keraz has shown that Revelation 6:12-17 is an entirely separate Prophecy from Matthew 24:29-31. However, lets say, for the sake of the argument, that I agree with you and move on.

Ok. However, I will mention that Keraz is wrong because he doesn't understand that in a lunar eclipse the moon is both as blood and darkened. Additionally, how many times do the stars fall from heaven? The stars falling from heaven in Matthew 24 are the same stars that fall from heaven at the 6th seal.

Do you not see that all of this happens AFTER the tribulation?

ABSOLUTELY. Do you not see that the tribulation is over at the 6th seal?

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

That this sound of a trumpet is the last and also 7th trumpet? Thanks for proving my point.

I believe you proved my point above.

There is no secret rapture here.

As I have said, there is no secret rapture at the 6th seal. But there is a secret rapture.

Now, if you agree with that then provide some proof that a mythical secret rapture ever occurs.

Sure. No problem.

Song of Solomon 2
8 The voice of my beloved! behold, he cometh leaping upon the mountains, skipping upon the hills.

9 My beloved is like a roe or a young hart: behold, he standeth behind our wall, he looketh forth at the windows, shewing himself through the lattice.

10 My beloved spake, and said unto me, Rise up, my love, my fair one, and come away.

11 For, lo, the winter is past, the rain is over and gone;

12 The flowers appear on the earth; the time of the singing of birds is come, and the voice of the turtle is heard in our land;

13 The fig tree putteth forth her green figs, and the vines with the tender grape give a good smell. Arise, my love, my fair one, and come away.

14 O my dove, that art in the clefts of the rock, in the secret places of the stairs, let me see thy countenance, let me hear thy voice; for sweet is thy voice, and thy countenance is comely.

This feast occurs in the millennial kingdom and is outside the context of the revelation judgements.

Actually, the feast will occur inside the 70th week of Daniel and then continue.

Stop proving my point. This doesn't refer to the secret rapture you promote. Let's see a verse that justifies that.

I am not proving your point. I am not claiming there is a secret rapture of the Church at the 6th seal. There is "A" rapture at the 6th seal, but it is not the rapture of the Church.

For the sake of the argument lets agree this could refer to the second coming.

Ok and let's qualify that second coming so for the sake of argument, we are on the same page.

When Jesus comes at the 6th seal, immediately after the tribulation of those days, he comes for a harvest. He sends His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth. Jesus remains in the clouds and does not touch the earth, and yet all eyes see the coming of the Lord.

That is what happens at the 6th seal. And then the 7th seal is opened, and the trumpets and vials of wrath occur.

How does this justify some errant view that there is a secret rapture? It obviously occurs after the tribulation.

Because the rapture at the 6th seal is not the rapture of the Church.

Scripture says there are two raptures. And when you realize that, all the arguments and so called proof that there is not a secret rapture go up in smoke.

The real question is are you looking for the truth or is your goal to protect a doctrine. From what I see, most people are interested in protecting a doctrine than finding the truth.

And sorry for the late response. I did not realize that you responded.