Strength and Honor: Triumphing over Feminism

[Mink57]

You feminist girls need to stop twisting the narrative. There was no "Business woman" outlined in Eve's duties, lol. Already challenging the man's authority, arent you?

The "business woman" is the Proverbs 31 woman. Nothing to do with Eve's duties.

And Adam's 'authority' didn't occur until AFTER the Fall...

Not that it was right.

 

[TLHKAJ]

 

[Wrangler]

Why you and Wrangler keep trying to put words in my mouth is beyond me.

Gaslighting. We are not doing this. We are not putting words in your mouth but elaborating on the consequences of the principles you espouse.

Let me use an outrageous example to demonstrate the semantic argument you are trying to make. Group X says women should be owned by their husbands. You say Group X wants women to be slaves. Group X whines that you are putting words in their mouth, they are not advocating at all that women should be slaves. See how that works?

I have been saying on this thread other times that "All women don't think alike."

Again, confusing ideology with people. Women are people. Feminism is an ideology. You constantly make this mistake, using women as a shield to defend the evil ideology of feminism.

Going back to Group X for sake of comparison. Imagine saying the people of Group X don’t think alike. This may be true but irrelevant to the fact that they think alike in embracing the ideology that women should be owned by their husbands.

What’s important is what is in common. Thinking alike in SOME ways, the way the evil ideology advocates is what matters. Feminists don’t have to think alike in ALL ways for them to be properly identified in their evil thinking in common, in accepting an evil premise.

Your mindset about keeping the money you made all for yourself has nothing to do with feminism.

It has EVERYTHING to do with feminism! Once you accept the self-centered, gynocentric-centric premise, it naturally follows what @Wynona used to think.

You choose the premise, you accept the conclusion it leads to.

 

[Wynona]

It isn't unbiblical for a woman to work.

I never said it's unbiblical for a woman to work.

Ruth worked in the field. She was providing for herself and her mother in law.

If a husband needs his wife to work, she should work.

I did quote Titus 2:4-5 calling wives to be keepers at home.

Feminism says women can have all their dreams without sacrificing anything that would cost them happiness.

Im saying that life doesn't work that way. A woman who is a wife, mother, and a career woman must run herself ragged to sustain all three and usually the marriage suffers.

Also, I havent seen anyone get up in arms if a man sacrifices his dreams to help his family. Truck driving is a very difficult and dangerous field of work. Did anyone care about my husband's sacrifice? But today if a woman sacrifices anything, its seen as oppression and disrespect towards her.

Men are already expected to do a lot of things. Ive never seen anyone point to a wife and tell her to take responsibility for anything that goes wrong in a marriage. Feminism is the air we breathe now.

 

[Wynona]

I have a college Associates degree and a work history. I really gave myself a hard time years ago for not finishing my bachelors.

But education was an idol for my family and I. The university environment was not good for me at all.

Why was I going in the first place?

Because I was taught that I could not rely on a man to take care of me. And my parents wanted me to go.

I actually had a hard time mentally surrounding leaving home and attending university. I wish I had insisted on skipping it and just worked a little grocery store job.

My husband and I wouldve had an easier time. Its my husband and children that mean the world to me, not any degree.

I wouldve loved to have started a family sooner. And I no longer think the modern college environment is good for people but especially women. College is where women go to act wild and promiscuous. Its exactly what my college friends tried to get me to do.

 

[Naomanos]

A woman who is a wife, mother, and a career woman must run herself ragged to sustain all three and usually the marriage suffers.

This is where your thinking fails, because you’re not thinking it all the way through.

A man who is a husband should be helping the wife and sharing in the responsibilities of keeping a home and raising children if he wants to be married.

You’re right, if a man allows the woman to do all three without him helping her, she is going to run ragged. This has been my point this entire thread. A wife should help the husband and the husband should help the wife. That is a marriage. This keeps either from running ragged.

 

[Wynona]

A man who is a husband should be helping the wife and sharing in the responsibilities of keeping a home and raising children if he wants to be married.

You’re right, if a man allows the woman to do all three without him helping her, she is going to run ragged. This has been my point this entire thread. A wife should help the husband and the husband should help the wife. That is a marriage. This keeps either from running ragged.

This is how we used to run our marriage. I expected my husband to help with the chores. I was expected to help with the bills since we were both working.

A. This caused us to argue about chores and finances because we disagreed on how both should be run.

B. We each were less efficient when sharing the responsibilities this way. Things got easier the same month we delegated finances to my husband and chores to me because specializing in a role makes you better at that role.

For example, when I first quit my job, my husband made a small income through cab driving. Once I went home, I thought we'd struggle to pay bills. But not only did my husband start working more hours, I began to learn frugality and how to stretch a dollar. I did not have time to do that while working.

 

[Naomanos]

But education was an idol for my family and I. The university environment was not good for me at all.

For you, it was an idol for you and your family. It doesn’t mean it is an idol for everyone, man or woman.

And I no longer think the modern college environment is good for people but especially women. College is where women go to act wild and promiscuous. Its exactly what my college friends tried to get me to do.

So, you had no autonomy to make your own decisions and not cave to peer pressure. It doesn’t make university bad for all people, it just means it was bad for you. Others have self-control or are capable of setting boundaries which you seem to have learned at a later time.

My friends growing up did the party thing, they drank, got drunk and what have you. They knew not to ask me because I had set that boundary very early on. I have never been drunk, smoked or did drugs in my life, ever. Had I chosen to go to anything but a community college, I wouldn’t have done the party thing.

As a direct opposite, my cousin was brought up in a strict religious home. He went to Catholic school until he hit high school where he went to an Air Force Academy. He had plans to become a doctor. Along with scholarships and my Uncle’s money, he had a free ride to Boston College. He failed out within the second semester because he went the complete opposite. He partied like there was no tomorrow. Because of his strict upbringing, once he got to college, he decided it would be better to party.

I say this to show that being brought up in a strict household can also cause problems.

My cousin finally went back to college a couple years later. He became a chef and is married with one kid.

 

[Naomanos]

This is how we used to run our marriage. I expected my husband to help with the chores. I was expected to help with the bills since we were both working.

A. This caused us to argue about chores and finances because we disagreed on how both should be run.

B. We each were less efficient when sharing the responsibilities this way. Things got easier the same month we delegated finances to my husband and chores to me because specializing in a role makes you better at that role.

For example, when I first quit my job, my husband made a small income through cab driving. Once I went home, I thought we'd struggle to pay bills. But not only did my husband start working more hours, I began to learn frugality and how to stretch a dollar. I did not have time to do that while working.

Again, this is you and your marriage. It is not representative of all marriages.

You keep doing this, taking your experience and making it for all marriages across the board. Your marriage is not another’s and so on down the line.

And no wonder you argued about things, you admitted that when you worked you said your money was yours. That would cause an argument. This still doesn’t represent all marriages across the board.

 

[Wynona]

You keep doing this, taking your experience and making it for all marriages across the board. Your marriage is not another’s and so on down the line.

Nothing wrong with an example.

Why not defend your view of marriage? An example in my marriage does more than what you are doing.

 

[Wynona]

So, you had no autonomy to make your own decisions and not cave to peer pressure.

I said they tried, not that they succeeded

 

[Naomanos]

Nothing wrong with an example.

Why not defend your view of marriage? An example in my marriage does more than what you are doing.

You completely missed the point of my reply to you.

I have already said how my marriage will be, you have commented on it.

I will give you an example of how we’re doing things now. Even though we do not live together and aren’t married, my fiance and I share finances. We help each other out when the other might be short one month. Another example is she picks up my kids from their mother on her way home from work because she passes by where we meet to pick up the kids and drop them off. I have picked up and dropped off her son when he was living with her.

 

[Naomanos]

I said they tried, not that they succeeded

That’s good then. It is still your own experience and not representative of all others.

 

[Wynona]

Again, this is you and your marriage. It is not representative of all marriages.

Im illustrating my point with from my marriage. Its more than youve done to defend your point of view.

Saying "not all x" is just a deflection to undermine what Im saying.

 

[Wynona]

I think people realize already that feminism is a broken ideology. I really believe many are wishing to suppress truth, not that they don't know it.

There's also lot of incentive to avoid reality, since people have sunk so many years into believing the feminist mythology.

 

[Naomanos]

Im illustrating my point with from my marriage. Its more than youve done to defend your point of view.

Saying "not all x" is just a deflection to undermine what Im saying.

I have defended my point of view throughout this thread. You have commented on said defense.

I am saying that not all are like yours because you have yet to acknowledge that your marriage is not representative of others or that your marriage will work for all other people.

I am not trying to undermine you, I am trying to get you to understand that not all marriages are yours or should be like yours.

 

[Wrangler]

Ive never seen anyone point to a wife and tell her to take responsibility for anything that goes wrong in a marriage.

This is the experience many men have in succumbing to the man-hating institution of marriage counseling. One friend pointed out to the counselor that his wife did something that was undeniably wrong. Rather than the counselor hold her accountable for damaging the marriage and counsel her on how to act right, she did this instead. She leaned forward and looked into the husbands eyes and said like she's talking to an idiot, "Even when she's wrong, she might still be right." What the heck does that mean? What is a reasonable person supposed to do with that?

I had a similar experience. Pointing out how my first wife always changes the subject from what she does wrong to what I do wrong, the counselor was oh so humble, delicate and soft spoken in saying she should not do that; that when I bring up a topic for discussion we should stick to that topic to resolution. Implied is that she sided with me that my wife can bring up all the horrible things I do at any other time.

So many other exchanges with the counselor revealed she was advocating for the wife no matter what. I already shared that another time she said my wife should have betrayed her commitment to me in parenting an agreed upon way. Another time she advocated that many studies show that girls suffer no long term psychological consequences for engaging in many sleep overs as a way to pressure me to abdicate a MAJOR source of stress in the marriage - AS IF "Science" is on my wife's side. When I asked the counselor to admit there are also no long term studies that show girls suffer psychologically for NOT engaging in sleep overs, she just glared at me with contempt in her eyes.

This is the environment men go for mental health to improve relationships with toxic feminists. Therefore, I have resolved never to go to marriage counseling again. I prefer mediation, which my wife avoids like the plague because the foundation is the reasonable expectations a man has in a marriage. It can't be all gyno-centric, all about what the women wants all the time. Feminists, in practice, treat the topic as oppression of women by default. Toxic as can be. @Wynona, very few women admit that women never get held accountable. Feminists like @Mink57 don't even acknowledge the toxic environment feminism created.

 

[Naomanos]

I think people realize already that feminism is a broken ideology. I really believe many are wishing to suppress truth, not that they don't know it.

There's also lot of incentive to avoid reality, since people have sunk so many years into believing the feminist mythology.

It is not a broken ideology. A few extremists causing problems does not mean that the ideology is broken.

 

[Mink57]

I never said it's unbiblical for a woman to work.

Ruth worked in the field. She was providing for herself and her mother in law.

If a husband needs his wife to work, she should work.

And what if a wife needs her husband to work, yet he refuses to do so?

I did quote Titus 2:4-5 calling wives to be keepers at home.

And when EXACTLY did Jesus say that?

Also, where does it say that 'help' can't be hired?

Feminism says women can have all their dreams without sacrificing anything that would cost them happiness.

Feminism does NOT say that. Feminism strives to give women CHOICES. That is, many of the same choices than MEN have. The CHOICE for a woman to be a SAHM OR to work, OR to do BOTH. The CHOICE for a MAN to be a SAHD (which, a good many men are choosing these days)...OR to be a SAHD and to work part time, OR to work FULL-TIME, but not be the breadwinner OR to work full time and be the breadwinner.

Or, how about the CHOICE to get married in the first place? Even Jesus said (and I'm paraphrasing) that not EVERYONE was cut out for marriage/married life. Even Paul said that if a man isn't married (but is called to serve God in another capacity) that the man shouldn't seek a wife. Well, the same can be applied to women. Marriage/kids is not a requirement to be happy...either for men OR for women. Plenty of both single men and women out there who are HAPPIER than their married with children friends.

Im saying that life doesn't work that way. A woman who is a wife, mother, and a career woman must run herself ragged to sustain all three and usually the marriage suffers.

Yes, and she 'runs herself ragged' because the BURDEN of being a mother AND homemaker usually falls on HER shoulders! In this day and age, more and more men are joining the bandwagon and recognizing that THEY had a hand in creating the home/kids too. And so THEY are striving for a more egalitarian partnership by taking on some of the responsibilities of marriage/kids.

You talk about how some women 'want it all', but what about the MEN? Seems that some of them 'have it all' by having a wife who takes care of EVERYTHING....and, who has a 'side-piece'.

Also, I havent seen anyone get up in arms if a man sacrifices his dreams to help his family. Truck driving is a very difficult and dangerous field of work. Did anyone care about my husband's sacrifice? But today if a woman sacrifices anything, its seen as oppression and disrespect towards her.

And what 'dreams' did your husband sacrifice for his family?

Men are already expected to do a lot of things.

So are WOMEN.

Ive never seen anyone point to a wife and tell her to take responsibility for anything that goes wrong in a marriage.

Depends....Just because you haven't 'seen' it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Feminism is the air we breathe now.

If that was true, patriarchy wouldn't exist....which it still DOES.

 

[TLHKAJ]

Feminism says women can have all their dreams without sacrificing anything that would cost them happiness.

Honestly, feminism has never been an interest to me. I never aspired to have my own goals apart from my husband. So I couldn't define feminism, nor have I ever studied into it. Any healthy relationship, especially marriage, requires sacrifice.