WOMEN IN THE BIBLE

[Johann]

My mental faculties are limited,

How?

J.

 

[Waiting on him]

In Mar_10:6 Jesus says, “But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.” He did not say God made men and women; rather, He said that God made this couple as a male and a female, stressing the single bond of marriage.
Old Testament Quotes in the New Testament - A reference to Gen_5:2 and Gen_1:27 is found in the following New Testament passages.
Gen_1:27, “So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.”
Mat_19:4, “And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,”
Mar_10:6, “But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.”

J.

Have a look at what’s played out between Cain and Able. Cain is a tiller of the ground Able a shepherd. Cain is angered in the sweat of his face and God tells him that if he does good his brothers desire will be to him alone.

Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
— Genesis 3:16

 

[Waiting on him]

How?

J.

I’m not a student of Hebrew and Greek.

 

[Waiting on him]

You never answered. Do you view yourself as the bride of Christ?

 

[Waiting on him]

I don’t know how to state it any simpler. It’s the doctrine of Christ- unity of the faith.

 

[Waiting on him]

With this mind I’m free to labor and trivial in birth with any, until Christ be formed in them.

 

[Johann]

You never answered. Do you view yourself as the bride of Christ?

Yes.

J.

 

[Waiting on him]

Yes.

J.

Well, there you have it.

 

[Waiting on him]

@Johann
You’ve been consummated Johann. Join with me in prayer that the Christ be manifest.

 

[Johann]

@Johann
You’ve been consummated Johann. Join with me in prayer that the Christ be manifest.

I beg your pardon?!

 

[Waiting on him]

To this very day the bride wears a veil. As nature shows she should be covered. But when the veil is removed seed is sown and a child is born.

 

[Waiting on him]

I beg your pardon?!

It’s what the baptism of Jesus is revealing. Through the veil to be born of God.

 

[Waiting on him]

I beg your pardon?!

Christ in you!

 

[Johann]

It’s what the baptism of Jesus is revealing. Through the veil to be born of God.

Hebrews 9:8 (NKJV)
"The Holy Spirit indicating this, that the way into the Holiest of All was not yet made manifest while the first tabernacle was still standing."

This verse highlights that under the old covenant, access to the most sacred place, the "Holiest of All," was restricted until Christ made the new way.
2. Hebrews 4:16 (NKJV)
"Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need."

A parallel to the idea of boldly entering the presence of God, emphasizing the confidence believers now have through Jesus.
3. John 14:6 (NKJV)
"Jesus said to him, 'I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.'"


4. Matthew 27:51 (NKJV)
"Then, behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth quaked, and the rocks were split."

The tearing of the physical veil in the temple when Christ died symbolizes the opening of direct access to God through Jesus.
5. Ephesians 2:18 (NKJV)
"For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father."

This verse emphasizes that through Christ, both Jews and Gentiles now have access to God, paralleling the idea of entering the Holy of Holies through Jesus.
6. Hebrews 6:19-20 (NKJV)
"This hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and steadfast, and which enters the Presence behind the veil, where the forerunner has entered for us, even Jesus, having become High Priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek."

This passage ties closely to the idea of Jesus going before us as the High Priest, making the way for believers to enter God’s presence.

I don't know what you are about a "veil" but I have direct access in Christ Jesus to my heavenly Abba via the Ruach.

How about you?

J.

 

[Waiting on him]

Hebrews 9:8 (NKJV)
"The Holy Spirit indicating this, that the way into the Holiest of All was not yet made manifest while the first tabernacle was still standing."

This verse highlights that under the old covenant, access to the most sacred place, the "Holiest of All," was restricted until Christ made the new way.
2. Hebrews 4:16 (NKJV)
"Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need."

A parallel to the idea of boldly entering the presence of God, emphasizing the confidence believers now have through Jesus.
3. John 14:6 (NKJV)
"Jesus said to him, 'I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.'"


4. Matthew 27:51 (NKJV)
"Then, behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth quaked, and the rocks were split."

The tearing of the physical veil in the temple when Christ died symbolizes the opening of direct access to God through Jesus.
5. Ephesians 2:18 (NKJV)
"For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father."

This verse emphasizes that through Christ, both Jews and Gentiles now have access to God, paralleling the idea of entering the Holy of Holies through Jesus.
6. Hebrews 6:19-20 (NKJV)
"This hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and steadfast, and which enters the Presence behind the veil, where the forerunner has entered for us, even Jesus, having become High Priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek."

This passage ties closely to the idea of Jesus going before us as the High Priest, making the way for believers to enter God’s presence.

I don't know what you are about a "veil" but I have direct access in Christ Jesus to my heavenly Abba via the Ruach.

How about you?

J.

I enter through his flesh, same as Paul and all the first century Christians proclaim. I was wrong you are still the bride.

By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
— Hebrews 10:20

 

[Waiting on him]

And he will destroy in this mountain the face of the covering cast over all people, and the vail that is spread over all nations.
— Isaiah 25:7

 

[ChristinaL]

WOMEN IN THE BIBLE

The Old Testament (ANE culture)
Culturally women were considered property
included in list of property (Exodus 20:17)
treatment of slave women (Exodus 21:7-11)
women's vows annullable by socially responsible male (Numbers 30)
women as spoils of war (Deuteronomy 20:10-14; 21:10-14)
Practically there was a mutuality
male and female made in God's image (Genesis 1:26-27)
honor father and mother (Exodus 20:12 [Deut. 5:16])
reverence mother and father (Leviticus 19:3; 20:9)
men and women could be Nazirites (Numbers 6:1-2)
daughters have right of inheritance (Numbers 27:1-11)
part of covenant people (Deuteronomy 29:10-12)
observe teaching of father and mother (Proverbs 1:8; 6:20)
sons and daughters of Heman (Levite family) led music in temple (1 Chronicles 25:5-6)
sons and daughters will prophesy in new age (Joel 2:28-29)
Women were in leadership roles
Moses' sister, Miriam, called a prophetess (Exodus 15:20-21, also note Micah 6:4)
a married woman, Deborah, also a prophetess (cf. Jdgs. 4:4), led all the tribes (Jdgs 4:4-5; 5:7)
Huldah was a prophetess whom King Josiah contacted to read and interpret the newly-found "Book of the Law" (2 Kings 22:14; 2 Chr. 34:22-27)
Queen Esther, a godly woman, saved the Jews in Persia

The New Testament
Culturally women in both Judaism and the Greco-Roman world were second class citizens with few rights or privileges (the exception was Macedonia).

Women in leadership roles in the NT
Elizabeth and Mary, godly women available to God (Luke 1-2)
Anna, a prophetess serving at the temple (Luke 2:36)
Lydia, believer and leader of a house church in Macedonia (Acts 16:14,40)
Philip's four virgin daughters were prophetesses (Acts 21:8-9)
Phoebe, deaconess of church at Cenchrea (Rom. 16:1; also note 1 Tim. 3:11)
Prisca (Priscilla), Paul's fellow-worker and teacher of Apollos (Acts 18:26; Rom. 16:3)
Mary, Tryphaena, Tryphosa, Persis, Julia, Nereus' sister, several women co-workers of Paul (Rom. 16:6-16; see SPECIAL TOPIC: WOMEN IN MINISTRY)
Junia (KJV), possibly a woman apostle (Rom. 16:7)
Euodia and Syntyche, co-workers with Paul (Phil. 4:2-3)

How does a modern believer balance the divergent biblical examples?
How does one determine historical or cultural truths, which apply only to the original context, from eternal truths valid for all churches, all believers of all ages?
We must take the intent of the original inspired author very seriously. The Bible is the Word of God and the only source for faith and practice.
We must deal with the obviously historically-conditioned inspired texts.
the cultus (i.e., ritual and liturgy) of Israel (cf. Acts 15; Galatians 3)
first century Judaism
Paul's obviously historically-conditioned statements in 1 Corinthians
(1) the legal system of pagan Rome (1 Corinthians 6)
(2) remaining a slave (1 Cor. 7:20-24)
(3) celibacy (1 Cor. 7:1-35; see SPECIAL TOPIC: CELIBACY AND MARRIAGE)
(4) virgins (1 Cor. 7:36-38)
(5) food sacrificed to an idol (1 Corinthians 8; 10:23-33)
(6) unworthy actions at Lord's Supper (1 Corinthians 11)
God fully and clearly revealed Himself to a particular culture, a particular day. We must take seriously the revelation, but not every aspect of its historical accommodation. The Word of God was written in human words, addressed to a particular culture at a particular time.
Biblical interpretation must seek the original author's intent. What was he saying to his day? This is foundational and crucial for proper interpretation. But then we must apply this to our own day. The real interpretive problem may be defining biblical terms.
Were there more ministries than pastors who were seen as leadership?
Were deaconesses or prophetesses seen as leaders?
It is quite clear that Paul, in 1 Cor. 14:34-35 and 1 Tim. 2:9-15, is asserting that women should not take the lead in public worship! But how do I apply that today? I do not want Paul's culture or my culture to silence God's eternal Word and will. Possibly Paul's day was too limiting, but also my day may be too open. I feel so uncomfortable saying that Paul's words and teachings are conditional, first century, local situational truths. Who am I that I should let my mind or my culture negate an inspired author?! Gordon Fee, Gospel and Spirit, has really helped me.

However, what do I do when there are biblical examples of women leaders (even in Paul's writings, cf. Romans 16)? A good example of this is Paul's discussion of public worship in 1 Corinthians 11-14. In 1 Cor. 11:5 he seems to allow women's preaching and praying in public worship, with their heads covered, yet in 14:34-35 he demands they remain silent! There were deaconesses (cf. Rom. 16:1; see SPECIAL TOPIC: PAUL'S USE OF WOMEN IN MINISTRY) and prophetesses (cf. Luke 2:36 and Acts 21:9). It is this diversity that allows me freedom to identify Paul's comments (as relates to restrictions on women) as limited to first century Corinth and Ephesus (possibly women as surrogate speakers for the false teachers in homes or house churches). In both churches there were problems with women exercising their newly-found freedom (cf. Bruce Winter, After Paul Left Corinth), which could have caused difficulty for the church in reaching their society for Christ. Their freedom had to be limited so that the gospel could be more effective.

My day is just the opposite of Paul's. In my day the gospel might be limited if articulate, trained women are not allowed to share the gospel, not allowed to lead! What is the ultimate goal of public worship? Is it not evangelism and discipleship? Can God be honored and pleased with women leaders? The Bible as a whole seems to say "yes"!

I want to yield to Paul; my theology is primarily Pauline. I do not want to be overly influenced or manipulated by modern feminism! However, I feel the church has been slow to respond to obvious biblical truths, like the inappropriateness of slavery, racism, bigotry, and sexism. It has also been slow to respond appropriately to the abuse of women in the modern world. God in Christ set free the slave and the woman. I dare not let a culture-bound text reshackle them.

One more point: as an interpreter I know that Corinth was a very disrupted church. The charismatic gifts were prized and flaunted. Women may have been caught up in this. I also believe that Ephesus was being affected by false teachers who were taking advantage of women and using them as surrogate speakers in the house churches of Ephesus.
"Bible Interpretation Seminar", #3

The woman is saved in childbearing!

Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
— 1 Timothy 2:15

If this is in reference to Al literal female then we have a big problem; what does God do with the females that can’t bare children?

My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,
— Galatians 4:19

Enduring Word Bible Commentary 1 Timothy Chapter 2. <<< Bang-on, all of it

 

[Johann]

Enduring Word Bible Commentary 1 Timothy Chapter 2. <<< Bang-on, all of it

Guzik?

J.

 

[ChristinaL]

Guzik?

J.

??

 

[Johann]

??

You quote Enduring Word Commentary and you haven't heard of Guzik??

J