The Coming Rapture

[Keraz]

According to your faith, it will be done unto you.

Those of us who will be taken in the rapture will look down
upon thee and say.... "Glad we did not believe like that guy"

View attachment 59707

As there is nowhere in the Bible that actually says anyone will be taken to live in heaven; do you have a Plan B?

3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

NOTE: ....I will come again......
This clearly says how Christians will be with Him after He has Returned. In the holy Land.

The new Jerusalem comes to us, after the Millennium. Rev 21:1-7

 

[Ronald Nolette]

NOTE: ....I will come again......
This clearly says how Christians will be with Him after He has Returned. In the holy Land.

Well when you edit the bible and remove part of a verse from its context.

John 14

King James Version

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14 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Jesus takes us to His Fathers house which is in heaven, until it comes down to earth after the millennnial kingdom and Satan and death are eternally defeated.

As there is nowhere in the Bible that actually says anyone will be taken to live in heaven; do you have a Plan B?

Don't need one.

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17

King James Version

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15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

The church is snatched off the earth, meet the Lord in the air and go to be where Jesus is!

Revelation 19

King James Version

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19 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:
2 For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.
3 And again they said, Alleluia And her smoke rose up for ever and ever.
4 And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia.
5 And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great.
6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.
7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

I know you are loathe to deal with this verse.

but it clearly shows the church in heaven and has made herself ready!

If the church is not in heaven than she is not ready and if it is the shout of the martyrs in REv. 6 the bride is not ready for they are still dead! Either way your opinion falls apart inlight of the plain clear teaching of the bible with any replacement theology and allegorizing.

also the 24 elders are in heaven. they are not angels for angels are never called elders anywhere.

So much for no one to be taken to live in heaven!

 

[Keraz]

The church is snatched off the earth, meet the Lord in the air and go to be where Jesus is!

As this Prophecy is very clearly for when Jesus Returns, then where He is, will be on earth - in Jerusalem.

but it clearly shows the church in heaven and has made herself ready!

Rev 19 does not say who exactly those people are. We know that from Revelation 6:9-11, they are the souls of the martyrs.
So; the way to get to heaven is to be martyred for your faith. And you would be lucky to just have a quick chop off the head!

Rapture believers do not seem to realize how their belief is a contradiction of scripture.
Jesus said we Christians must stay strong in our faith and endure until the end. when He Returns.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Well when you edit the bible and remove part of a verse from its context.

John 14​

​

King James Version​

​

​

14 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Jesus takes us to His Fathers house which is in heaven, until it comes down to earth after the millennnial kingdom and Satan and death are eternally defeated.

That passage means we will be with Jesus wherever He is, which doesn't have to be in heaven. We will be with Him for eternity in the new heavens and new earth. Tell me why we will meet Jesus in the air if He's then going to take us back to heaven? It makes no sense for Him to come meet us in the air and then turn around and go back to heaven. That would be completely pointless for Him to do that. It would make much more sense for us to just meet Him in heaven if that's where we were going to end up.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Rev 19 does not say who exactly those people are.

It calls them the wife of the Lamb (Rev 19:8). Who is the bride/wife of Christ except for the church? It's the souls of the dead in Christ which He will bring with Him when He comes (1 Thess 4:14).

We know that from Revelation 6:9-11, they are the souls of the martyrs.
So; the way to get to heaven is to be martyred for your faith. And you would be lucky to just have a quick chop off the head!

In other posts, you claim that no one has gone to heaven except Jesus and now you're contradicting yourself by saying that the souls of the martryrs are there. Why would only the souls of the martyrs be there and not the souls of believers who were not martyrs as well?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

That passage means we will be with Jesus wherever He is, which doesn't have to be in heaven. We will be with Him for eternity in the new heavens and new earth. Tell me why we will meet Jesus in the air if He's then going to take us back to heaven? It makes no sense for Him to come meet us in the air and then turn around and go back to heaven. That would be completely pointless for Him to do that. It would make much more sense for us to just meet Him in heaven if that's where we were going to end up.

It doesn't matter whether or not it makes sense to our finite minds or not! If God says it, then it is true.

The churches home is in heaven where jesus even now is preparing rooms for us. If you knew the customs of a Jewish wedding in Jesus day, this would make perfect sense to you.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

As this Prophecy is very clearly for when Jesus Returns, then where He is, will be on earth - in Jerusalem.

No it is not clearly. Just to those who allegorize and redefine Scripture. This passage says nothing about Jesus return to earth. We meet Him in the air.

Jesus is preparing homes for us in His Father house as He CLEARLY declared in John 14. And until death and the grave are destroyed, the Fathers location is in heaven.

Rev 19 does not say who exactly those people are. We know that from Revelation 6:9-11, they are the souls of the martyrs.
So; the way to get to heaven is to be martyred for your faith. And you would be lucky to just have a quick chop off the head!

Well there is only bride spoken in the bible and that is the church,Christians! So unless you want to add to Gods word some mystery bride in heaven, you are forced to accept the Church in heaven.

And no the martyrs beheaded by the antichrist are resurrected to earth to rule with Jesus for 1000 years as the word of God says

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

And yo also forget the plain words of Paul:

2 Corinthians 5:6-8

King James Version

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6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)
8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

So when we are absent from the body we are present with the Lord. Unless you are like the JW's and believe Jesus is invisibly reigning on earth now!

See the rapture is not some half cocked idea somebody dreame dup to renounce the Catholic tradition of people staying in the grave until teh resurrection.

It was found by careful study of the Scriptures and learning the verb mood voice tense and usage.

The church will be snatched up off the earth to meet the Lord in the air, to be taken to our homes in His Fathers house.

If you knew the culture of Jesus day and understood that the rapture is but one fulfillment of the Jewish wedding system, you would not defend the RCC position you hold so much.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

It doesn't matter whether or not it makes sense to our finite minds or not! If God says it, then it is true.

God never said that we will be taken to heaven after we meet Jesus in the air. That's what you want to believe, but scripture never says that.

The churches home is in heaven where jesus even now is preparing rooms for us. If you knew the customs of a Jewish wedding in Jesus day, this would make perfect sense to you.

Show me where we are supposed to understand all of this in the context of a Jewish wedding. That is not stated anywhere. You are again just making things up. Our eternal home will be the new earth, so that is why Jesus will leave heaven and meet us in the air. We will then be with Him forever on the new earth after that. He will renew heaven and bring the new heaven to the new earth.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

God never said that we will be taken to heaven after we meet Jesus in the air. That's what you want to believe, but scripture never says that.


Show me where we are supposed to understand all of this in the context of a Jewish wedding. That is not stated anywhere. You are again just making things up. Our eternal home will be the new earth, so that is why Jesus will leave heaven and meet us in the air. We will then be with Him forever on the new earth after that. He will renew heaven and bring the new heaven to the new earth.

Wrong!

John 14

King James Version

​

14 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

1. Fathers house is in heaven
2. Jesus left earth
3. He went back to heaven
4. He is preparing a place for us in His Fathers house (heaven)
5. He is coming back to take us to our house in heaven.

That is what gods word says as written.

https://arielcontent.org/dcs/pdf/mbs113m.pdf

I forgive you for making up stuff about me.

Here is a small but detailed manuscript describing the Jewish wedding system of Jesus day and how it melds perfectly in how jesus treats HIs bride, the church.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Wrong!

No, you're wrong! See, I can do that, too.

John 14​

​

King James Version​

​

​

14 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

1. Fathers house is in heaven
2. Jesus left earth
3. He went back to heaven

Stop right there. You're not taking other scripture into account here. You're sharing things from your imagination, but not from scripture. Nowhere does it say after He leaves earth, He goes back to heaven. It says He will come again. From where? Heaven. And He will receive us to Himself. Where? According to Paul, He will receive us to Himself "in the air" (1 Thess 4:14-17). So, stop adding what you want scripture to say and accept what scripture actually says instead.

Our eternal home is not heaven, but instead will be the new heavens and new earth. When Jesus comes He will be burning up and renewing the earth (2 Peter 3:10-13), so when it says we will be where He is and be with Him forever, it's not talking about us going back to heaven with Him, but about us spending eternity in the new heavens and new earth with Him. He will be renewing heaven and bringing it to us. That's why He leaves there. Otherwise, we would just meet Him in heaven instead of in the air. You don't even think of these things because you only think of what you want to happen instead of what scripture says will happen.

4. He is preparing a place for us in His Fathers house (heaven)

Yes, and He's bringing it to us. Otherwise, there would be no reason for Him to leave heaven and we would just be gathered to Him there instead of "in the air".

5. He is coming back to take us to our house in heaven.

No, He isn't. You have nothing to support that claim except for a misinterpretation of John 14:1-3. You have absolutely nothing else you can even try to offer to support your view.

That is what gods word says as written.

No, it's what you say while misinterpreting God's word.

I forgive you for making up stuff about me.

Such as?

 

[ewq1938]

Joh 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.


Jesus said, "I go to prepare a place for you." that is regarding those who die while Christ is in heaven. Jesus will eventually leave heaven: "I will come again". That is the second coming and here is the important thing: "I will come again and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also."


So where is Christ after "I will come again and receive you unto myself"? Earth. He is no longer in heaven.


"I will come again and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also."


This is what Jesus said. This is what some think he said:


"I will come again and receive you unto myself AND TAKE YOU BACK TO HEAVEN; that where I am, there ye may be also."


He also did NOT say, "I will come again and receive you unto myself; that where I USED TO BE, there ye may be also."

He never said when he came back, that he was taking anyone to heaven. He comes again to Earth and where he is on Earth is where the church will be.

Also in the same chapter:

Joh 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.


Christ isn't returning to take anyone up to heaven to live with him and the Father but the opposite! The Father and Christ will end up coming here to make their abode on Earth with us! That's the opposite of the false pre-trib teaching!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Joh 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.


Jesus said, "I go to prepare a place for you." that is regarding those who die while Christ is in heaven. Jesus will eventually leave heaven: "I will come again". That is the second coming and here is the important thing: "I will come again and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also."


So where is Christ after "I will come again and receive you unto myself"? Earth. He is no longer in heaven.


"I will come again and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also."


This is what Jesus said. This is what some think he said:


"I will come again and receive you unto myself AND TAKE YOU BACK TO HEAVEN; that where I am, there ye may be also."


He also did NOT say, "I will come again and receive you unto myself; that where I USED TO BE, there ye may be also."

He never said when he came back, that he was taking anyone to heaven. He comes again to Earth and where he is on Earth is where the church will be.

Also in the same chapter:

Joh 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.


Christ isn't returning to take anyone up to heaven to live with him and the Father but the opposite! The Father and Christ will end up coming here to make their abode on Earth with us! That's the opposite of the false pre-trib teaching!

Mostly agree, except He also didn't say He would come back and receive us to Himself on earth, either. Paul said we will meet Him in the air (1 Thess 4:14-17). I ask pre-tribs why we would meet Him in the air instead of just meeting Him in heaven if we were going to end up in heaven, anyway, and they have nothing but lame responses to that question, if they respond at all. But, I ask you, a post-trib Premill, why we wouldn't just meet Him on earth if He's coming to earth instead of meeting Him in the air?

 

[Keraz]

why we wouldn't just meet Him on earth if He's coming to earth instead of meeting Him in the air?

Because the faithful Christian peoples will be scattered around the world and need to be transported to Jerusalem.
In a transportation similar to what happened to Phillip, Acts 8:39 The angels will do ii; Matthew 24:31

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Because the faithful Christian peoples will be scattered around the world and need to be transported to Jerusalem.
In a transportation similar to what happened to Phillip, Acts 8:39 The angels will do ii; Matthew 24:31

I disagree since I believe our next destination will be the eternal new heavens and new earth instead of Jerusalem, but at least you recognize that Matthew 24:31 refers to the same event as 1 Thess 4:14-17.

 

[Keraz]

I disagree since I believe our next destination will be the eternal new heavens and new earth instead of Jerusalem, but at least you recognize that Matthew 24:31 refers to the same event as 1 Thess 4:14-17.

Jesus Returns as King of Kings and Lord of Lords; does He immediately hand the Kingdom to the Father?
Not according to Revelation 20 and many other Prophesies which describe the Millennium.

You seem committed to the AMill belief, but to deny Jesus Hs rightful rule is very unwise,

 

[shepherdsword]

@Episkopos The problem with a secret rapture before the second coming is the resurrection of the saints. One can inject whatever one wants into metaphoric passages through the process of apophenia. However, there is never a return of Jesus ever mentioned where the resurrection wasn't mentioned. The resurrection happens at the second coming.

You even use 1 Cor 15 as a justification for the rapture. However, that passage clearly states that the resurrection happens at the last Trump. This is of course in line with the 7th trumpet in Rev 11. A sent angel in rev 10 swore that the mystery of God should be finished once the 7th trumpet was finished. There is no secret rapture for an esoteric elite. The rapture occurs AT the second coming. "Zion" in Isa 66 and Rev 12 is the nation of Israel. The manchild is the messiah...it is He who will rule all nations with a rod of iron (yes, overcomers will rule with him but HE does the ruling) Isa 66 itself tells us what happens when the Lord returns

Isa 66:15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

This is obviously referring to the second coming and not some supersecret pre-trib rapture.

I also have a bit of an issue with your take on what happens during revival. They don't happen due to the saints taking the place of the principalities. If that was true, since we are now presently seated with Christ in heavenly places, there should be a nonstop worldwide revival. Dan 10 and Rev 12 lay the groundwork for what happens. Angelic victory over spiritual wickedness in high places. In Dan 10 we victory over the prince of Persia. In rev 12 we see the victory of Michael over the dragon. The dragon is cast down, the earth put into woe and the worldwide revival taking place because of it.

It is true that we are often taken outside the camp to bear his reproach. Thank the Lord Jesus for this:

Ps 147:2-3 The Lord doth build up Jerusalem: he gathereth together the outcasts of Israel. He healeth the broken in heart, and bindeth up their wounds.

We can agree to disagree but let us keep up the discussion as iron sharpens iron.
Praise the Lord!
(It's Larry, your old friend by the way)
Blessings!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Stop right there. You're not taking other scripture into account here. You're sharing things from your imagination, but not from scripture. Nowhere does it say after He leaves earth, He goes back to heaven. It says He will come again. From where? Heaven. And He will receive us to Himself. Where? According to Paul, He will receive us to Himself "in the air" (1 Thess 4:14-17). So, stop adding what you want scripture to say and accept what scripture actually says instead.

Our eternal home is not heaven, but instead will be the new heavens and new earth. When Jesus comes He will be burning up and renewing the earth (2 Peter 3:10-13), so when it says we will be where He is and be with Him forever, it's not talking about us going back to heaven with Him, but about us spending eternity in the new heavens and new earth with Him. He will be renewing heaven and bringing it to us. That's why He leaves there. Otherwise, we would just meet Him in heaven instead of in the air. You don't even think of these things because you only think of what you want to happen instead of what scripture says will happen.

So you do not believe that when Jesus ascended, He did not go back to heaven as He said?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Yes, and He's bringing it to us. Otherwise, there would be no reason for Him to leave heaven and we would just be gathered to Him there instead of "in the air".

Well as you say we do not go to heaven for the millennial kingdom, is the Fathers house inmid air?

Yes, and He's bringing it to us. Otherwise, there would be no reason for Him to leave heaven and we would just be gathered to Him there instead of "in the air".

So who is the bride in heaven in REv. 19?

Yes, and He's bringing it to us. Otherwise, there would be no reason for Him to leave heaven and we would just be gathered to Him there instead of "in the air".

Yes oiur Fathers house after the millennial kingdom is coming to earth, but we will be there already. But during the Millennial kingdom it is not on earth.

Paul said in 2 cor. that to absent from the body is to be present with Jesus. So where does the soul and spirit of a person goes if not to heaven when the body dies???

No, it's what you say while misinterpreting God's word.

No I accept the words and their definitions as written.

 

[The Light]

@Episkopos The problem with a secret rapture before the second coming is the resurrection of the saints. One can inject whatever one wants into metaphoric passages through the process of apophenia. However, there is never a return of Jesus ever mentioned where the resurrection wasn't mentioned. The resurrection happens at the second coming.

There is a resurrection at the 2nd coming. It's resurrection of the people of Daniel. However, the Church has already been raised before this tribulation. And the 2nd coming occurs at the 6th seal.

Daniel 12
1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

You even use 1 Cor 15 as a justification for the rapture.

There is a rapture at 1 Cor 15, but it is the rapture that occurs at the 6th seal shown above.

However, that passage clearly states that the resurrection happens at the last Trump.

The last trump is blown on the Feast of Trumpets, a harvest feast.

This is of course in line with the 7th trumpet in Rev 11.

The 7th trumpet blown by an angel has nothing to do with the rapture of the Church or the rapture at the seal. What you are saying is unscriptural. You have the Church going through the wrath of God when it should be clear that we are not appointed to wrath.

1 Thes 5
9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

A sent angel in rev 10 swore that the mystery of God should be finished once the 7th trumpet was finished.

It is.

There is no secret rapture for an esoteric elite.

No. There is a secret rapture of the Church.

The rapture occurs AT the second coming

There will be a rapture at the second coming. It certainly won't be the Church. They are already in heaven by the time the rapture at the 6th seal occurs. Then the 7th seal is opened and the wrath of God begins. The 7th trumpet does not happen until the end of Gods wrath.

. "Zion" in Isa 66 and Rev 12 is the nation of Israel. The manchild is the messiah...it is He who will rule all nations with a rod of iron (yes, overcomers will rule with him but HE does the ruling) Isa 66 itself tells us what happens when the Lord returns

Isa 66:15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

This is obviously referring to the second coming and not some supersecret pre-trib rapture.

Obviously. And the second coming occurs at the 6th seal, when all eyes see the coming of the Lord. Jesus never touches the earth at the 6th seal. He sends His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth. All return to heaven for the marriage supper. After the marriage supper the armies of heaven come for Armageddon and then the 7th trumpet sounds as Jesus touches the Mount of Olives.

There are two raptures. It appears you don't understand where either occur.

Blessings

 

[shepherdsword]

There is a resurrection at the 2nd coming. It's resurrection of the people of Daniel. However, the Church has already been raised before this tribulation. And the 2nd coming occurs at the 6th seal.

Daniel 12
1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.


There is a rapture at 1 Cor 15, but it is the rapture that occurs at the 6th seal shown above.

There is no rapture at the 6th seal. The rapture occurs in Rev 11 when the mystery of God is finished and the saints are resurrected and rewarded:

Rv 11:15-18
And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

The last trump is blown on the Feast of Trumpets, a harvest feast.

The 7th trumpet blown by an angel has nothing to do with the rapture of the Church or the rapture at the seal. What you are saying is unscriptural.

It seems unscriptural to you because you don't understand the scriptures. The 7th Trumpet is also the LAST Trumpet because there are no more trumpets after that. It couldn't be any more clearer to an open and honest mind.

You have the Church going through the wrath of God when it should be clear that we are not appointed to wrath.

1 Thes 5
9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

The wrath begins during the vail judgements. in Rev 16.These happen after the 7 trumpets.

Rv 16:1
And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.

However, you are misquoting 1 Th 5. and taking it out of context . The wrath that we are saved from in that verse is eternal damnation. Let's look at it:
1 Th 5:9
For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

as we can see, the contrast to wrath in this verse is SALVATION...it is not the wrath of rev 16.

No. There is a secret rapture of the Church.

Only in some fantasy invention of the human mind. Go tell the people who are being murdered and tortured for their faith at this very minute how there is some soon to come secret hidden rapture that will deliver them from suffering. They would look at you as if yuo are crazy...you see, they are already taking all the pain they can bear. They couldn't stomach some Mcdonalds happy meal eschatological error that twists and wrests scripture into a sad caricature of what is to come.

There will be a rapture at the second coming. It certainly won't be the Church. They are already in heaven by the time the rapture at the 6th seal occurs. Then the 7th seal is opened and the wrath of God begins. The 7th trumpet does not happen until the end of Gods wrath.

Once again you show your scriptural ignorance. The wrath of God doesn't take place until Rev 16 . In fact Rev 16:15 tells us that Jesus has not yet come:

Rv 16:15
Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

It is clear that the second coming and rapture occur at the 7th Trumpet. An angel was sent to specifically swear the mystery of God would be finished at the 7th(LAST) Trumpet

Rv 10:5-7
And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven,
And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:
But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

Let's look once again at what happens when the 7th trumpet is blown:

Rv 11:15-18
And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

How could it not be anymore clearer?

Obviously. And the second coming occurs at the 6th seal, when all eyes see the coming of the Lord. Jesus never touches the earth at the 6th seal. He sends His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth. All return to heaven for the marriage supper. After the marriage supper the armies of heaven come for Armageddon and then the 7th trumpet sounds as Jesus touches the Mount of Olives.

You keep saying that the rapture happens at the 6th seal. Lets look at it and see what truly happens. (by the way, this is after the 5th seal when the saints are persecuted and martyred

Rv 6:12-17
And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

As we can see, there is no super secret rapture for those that got the secret mystery decoder ring from their eschatological fast food happy meal.

There are two raptures. It appears you don't understand where either occur.

The scripture speaks of one rapture at the last trump which is the same as the 7th trumpet. This is something that you seem to overlook.
Blessings

The last trump is blown on the Feast of Trumpets, a harvest feast.

The last trump is also the 7th because there is no other trump after it. It has nothing to do with a "harvest feast" You are giving heed to jewish fables:

Tit 1:14
Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.

And the second coming occurs at the 6th seal, when all eyes see the coming of the Lord. Jesus never touches the earth at the 6th seal.

His feet never touch the ground because he doesn't come at the 6th seal. He comes at the 7th trumpet when he judges the dead and rewards the faithful