SATAN, NOT BOUND YET

[TribulationSigns]

I can see connecting that with 2Th 2:8-12. To connect that with Rev 9:4-6 though, is nonsensical, IMO. The text says this torment is for 5 months. 5 months isn't forever. What then does it mean when these 5 months expire? You need to deal with that fact as well.

LOL!!! Who said that the 5 months is supposed to be forever? This has to do with the smoke locusts (bet you don't know what the smoke refers to anyway) that come out of the bottomless pit to specifically torment those men who have NOT YET SEAL OF GOD within God's congregation DURING THAT TIME. That will only take place after Satan comes out of bottomless pit and for a LITTLE SEASON, which the five month spiritually represents! Not forever. Think carefully and please read the context first!

Amils never seem to want to deal with what it means after something has expired. IOW, does it still mean the same thing when it expires that Amils insist it is meaning while it is still in progress?

I just proved you wrong. Have a good Sunday!

 

[amigo de christo]

Agree. So, we very well may be living during that time that Jesus talked about in Matthew 24:9-13 and that Paul wrote about in 2 Thess 2:1-12 which I equate with Satan's little season.

Take note a very nasty delusion has been unleashed .
Its all tied into reprobation and false love .
It is recreating a very broad path , sin accepting road .
This delusion is UNITING the LOST to be as one man . the lost within christendom and the lost false religoins .
Its all about diversity , inclusivity and it has caused hatred to abound against the TRUTH

 

[Davidpt]

Really? Let's start over. In Revelation 20 and Matthew 12, why did Christ bind Satan in the first place? To bring salvation to His people out among the nations through the testimony of Two Witnesses, right? What happened and WHY Satan comes out of bottomless pit afterward? You think salvation still going on? Show me the Scripture then!

Why do you waste time with arguments like that? Simply use the first resurrection and living and reigning with Christ a thousand years as an argument. Nothing can trump that argument. Obviously, assuming someone can be saved during satan's little season, they wouldn't be able to live and reign with Christ a thousand years since this era of time would be in the past at this point. It would then be impossible for them to have part in the first resurrection. Keeping in mind, one can't divorce the first resurrection from that of living and reigning with Christ a thousand years.

Maybe some Amils think that you don't even have to have part in the first resurrection in order to be saved, lol? Thus, during satan's little season being the exception to that.

 

[amigo de christo]

That hasn't happened yet.... look around bub, evil is alive and active all over this world

1 Thessalonians 2:18
Wherefore we would have come unto you, even I Paul, once and again; but satan hindered us.

Here we see the Apostle Paul acknowledging that satan is not bound and was in fact hindering Paul's ministry

So you folks have to now claim that Paul was ignorant and was not aware that satan has been bound and cannot hinder his ministry in anyway

Did ya'll take Paul's writings out of your bibles? View attachment 59288

The judge not correct not UNBOUND and UNTIED the hands of those who do evil.
Leaven has flooded into christendom .
Guess this we gotta love em to GOD DIDNT WORK . LOVE corrects
and their love OVERLOOKED error . LETS keep that in mind
the next time one cometh and corrects and the many holler at such , saying HEY we cant hATE THEM .
ITS not hate to correct and to expose sin . Its hate NOT TOO .
lets read the bible shall we .
YE shall NOT HATE your neighbor in your heart , you shall , THAT SAYS SHALL , CORRECT HIM and not allow sin upon him .
the churches DESTROYED THEM SELVES with the judge not correct not motto they thought was so loving .

 

[amigo de christo]

Ridiculous. That's what someone says when they think they are God. You are not God, so my argument is with you and your understanding of God's word regarding this issue and not with God. Get over yourself and humble yourself.


Ah, so you are a Calvinist then? That explains a lot and is the reason you are not seeing the truth of this matter. Why would God's patience be required if He already determined everything? That makes no sense whatsoever. But, it makes perfect sense if man has free will and God patiently gives man the opportunity to choose to submit to Him and repent.


Nowhere does it teach that! You act as if you've proven tat, but you have not come anywhere near proving that. Salvation will be possible right up until the day Jesus returns and it's foolish to say otherwise. What is the point of even allowing Satan's little season is the time of salvation is already over when it begins? It makes that time period completely pointless and meaningless if no one can be saved during that time.


They have to be sealed before Jesus comes and destroys all of His enemies on the earth and not any time before that. I'm not finding your argument here to be convincing at all.


But, you don't understand that once it is determined that all who are to be saved have been saved, that is when it becomes time for Jesus to reutrn and take vengeance on the unsaved (2 Thess 1:7-10). Why delay the punishment of the unsaved once God has determined that no one else can be saved? That makes no sense.


Our argument isn't about this, it's about the timing of when the day of salvation is over. Look at my username. You think I don't understand the concept of Spiritual Israel? I don't need you to explain that to me.


When did I say anything like that? Who are you even talking to here?


When did I say anyone gets saved after that? I cannot believe how people waste so much time making straw man arguments on here. Our argument isn't about that, it's about the timing of when Jesus comes in relation to when all Israel has been saved. You say that a little season occurs after all Israel has been saved first before He comes and I say He comes right after all Israel has been saved. Again, why the delay? There is no point in having any delay for Jesus to return once all Israel has been saved.


I agree, but the church age isn't over until Jesus returns.

I think folks miss something .
It never says and so all jews will be saved
IT says and so ALL ISRAEL shall be saved . WHO IS OF ISRAEL .
WHO is of the TRUE HEAVENLY JERUSALEM is WHO IS OF ISRAEL .
Believing jews and gentiles . people act like Every single person that was born a jew will be saved .
I think folks need to read some revelation too . The synagogue of satan
of those who say they are jews but are not . Paul knew what a true jew was .
People lack a lotta of understanding . actually many lack something else . I see a huge problem
within christendom and i must ask , WHERE IS THE HOLY SPIRIT in the lives of many .
Cause i aint seeing it at work in many who even lip the name of JESUS
as they run to the love of money , as they justify sins and many paths . I DO NOT SEE the SPIRIT at work in many .

 

[Davidpt]

LOL!!! Who said that the 5 months is supposed to be forever? This has to do with the smoke locusts (bet you don't know what the smoke refers to anyway) that come out of the bottomless pit to specifically torment those men who have NOT YET SEAL OF GOD within God's congregation DURING THAT TIME. That will only take place after Satan comes out of bottomless pit and for a LITTLE SEASON, which the five month spiritually represents! Not forever. Think carefully and please read the context first!



I just proved you wrong. Have a good Sunday!

My point about the 5 months not meaning forever has to do with the fact, regardless whether the 5 months are literal, or if they are not, this 5 months expire eventually. What then does it mean when these 5 months are in the past? We have to keep in mind that this is during the 5th trumpet and that there is the 6th trumpet that follows that. Not to mention, the 7th trumpet that follows that trumpet. IOW, as of the 6th trumpet, these 5 months would be in the past at this point.

 

[Davidpt]

I think folks miss something .
It never says and so all jews will be saved
IT says and so ALL ISRAEL shall be saved . WHO IS OF ISRAEL .
WHO is of the TRUE HEAVENLY JERUSALEM is WHO IS OF ISRAEL .
Believing jews and gentiles . people act like Every single person that was born a jew will be saved .
I think folks need to read some revelation too . The synagogue of satan
of those who say they are jews but are not . Paul knew what a true jew was .
People lack a lotta of understanding . actually many lack something else . I see a huge problem
within christendom and i must ask , WHERE IS THE HOLY SPIRIT in the lives of many .
Cause i aint seeing it at work in many who even lip the name of JESUS
as they run to the love of money , as they justify sins and many paths . I DO NOT SEE the SPIRIT at work in many .

It simply means that once every Jew and Gentile that ends up saved, are saved, and so ALL ISRAEL shall be saved. IOW, all Israel is not Jews, it is Jews and Gentiles combined. Of course, that is what you seem to be saying to begin with. Therefore, I'm not disagreeing with what you said, I'm agreeing with what you said. So, the same way not every Gentile will end up saved, neither will every Jew end up saved in the end.

 

[WPM]

You are correct, however, we are discussing the NT.

The Church relates to God's people throughout time, and are an harmonious whole.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

You mean you've never read Revelation 9:11, which is about Satan as that "king" and "angel of the bottomless pit"? What about Job 1 & 2 where Satan appears before God's throne and God asks where he has been, and Satan says from going to and fro in the earth, walking up and down in it?

None of that prove he has been required to stay in the pit and doesn't prove he's even been to the pit yet.

That "bottomless pit" is simply another name for the abode of hell which is in the heavenly realm

Hilarious that anyone would think hell.... is in Heaven!

That is Satan's head-office in the heavenly realm.

No, not after Jesus went to Heaven with His blood... totally different than what we read about in Job.

The Blood of Jesus cleansed the part of Heaven
where satan could go before God and accuse
men as spoke of in the Book of Job

Hebrews 9:23,24
It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:

Unless of course... they think the shed Blood of Jesus isn't powerful enough to keep the devil out of the presence of the Father's Throne

Sadly many have so little honor and respect for the Blood of the Lamb or the victory Jesus won in the spirit over all the forces of darkness. Very sad indeed.

When Lord Jesus returns in the future, that is when Satan will be locked in his own... pit prison, in chains.

Yes, in the future satan and his demons will be locked up... right now they be running around here on earth and no longer have access to 3rd Heaven where the Lord is... but still do have access to the 2nd heaven which is space surrounding earth as well as the first heaven which is earth's atmosphere

We know there are 3 area called heavens and the 3rd or highest Heaven is where the Father's Throne is where Jesus sits at His Right Hand.... that's were Paul went was to the 3rd Heaven

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

What you two are arguing about is further proof that the thousand years and satan's little season couldn't possibly mean before the 2nd coming.

Further proof? How can there be further proof when there is no proof to begin with? You're all talk.

Because if it is, there goes connecting the first resurrection with salvation out the window. Every single saved person, thus those that have part in the first resurrection, they live and reign with Christ a thousand years. Have some lost their mind and forgot that fact?

What are you even talking about here? You couldn't be more vague if you tried.

As if someone can then be saved during satan's little season then have part in the first resurrection and live and reign with Christ a thousand years.

Do you not think that anyone can be saved during Satan's little season? Do you think that Christ does not reign during Satan's little season? Is He somehow no longer the King during that time? If you agree with me that He continues to reign even during Satan's little season, since scripture says He reigns forever (Isaiah 9:6-7), then what is the problem here?

As if that is logical, that after the thousand years expire, that if someone is saved during satan's little season, they too have part in the first resurrection, they too live and reign with Christ a thousand years.

No one is saying they reign during the thousand years after the thousand years is over. That isn't the issue being discussed. The issue being discussed is whether or not anyone after the thousand years are over can be saved. Try to stick to the topic at hand instead of intervening with your nonsense.

It's a no brainer then.

It's a no brainer that you are clueless about Amillennialism.

If the thousand years and satan's little season happen before the 2nd coming, this would obviously mean no one can be saved during satan's little season, the fact it would be impossible to have part in the first resurrection at this point.

No, it would only be impossible to have part in the first resurrection during the thousand years at that point. So, the question becomes whether someone can be saved during Satan's little season or not. What say you? If you say yes, then you should not have a problem with my view that allows for salvation to occur during Satan's little season.

One can't divorce the first resurrection from living and reigning with Christ a thousand years.

That's like saying that Christ can only reign during the thousand years and that's it. Do you think He is no longer King during Satan's little season? Doesn't scripture say that he must reign until the last enemy, death, is destroyed (1 Cor 15:25-26)? Is death defeated yet when Satan's little season begins? No. So, what does that tell you? It should tell you that Christ is still reigning during that time, but Satan is also loosed during that time, unlike during the thousand years. As usual, you're only looking at part of the story instead of the whole story.

You can't have one without the other. No way can anyone reign with Christ a thousand years after the the thousand years expire, lol.

No kidding. My goodness you waste so much time with useless commentary. It's unbelievable. The question is whether anyone can reign with Christ after the thousand years. As I've shown, Christ does reign even during Satan's little season, so that would suggest that someone can reign with Him during that time as well. But, naturally, you didn't even think about this because your thinking is so narrow.

That's just common sense that even a 5th grader should be able to comprehend.

I agree, so it's a waste of time to point things out that everyone already knows and agrees with.

But look what doctrinal bias does to some intelligent people.

LOL. Look what it does to you? It influences every single interpretation you have. You are the most doctrinally biased person I've ever seen.

It makes them appear to be less intelligent than they actually are, since no intelligent person capable of reasoning things coherently could actually believe the first resurrection can be applied to anyone during satan's little season.

From my Amil perspective that is equivalent to saying that no intelligent person could actully believe that anyone could be saved during Satan's little season. But, that is obviously false since there is nothing which says such a thing.

IOW, it undeniably contradicts that everyone that has part in the first resurrection, they live and reign with Christ a thousand years. And unless one has part in the first resurrection, how can they possibly be meaning any of the following----1 Thessalonians 4:13-17?

There you go again, trying to force your understanding of the first resurrection onto Amill. That isn't fair or reasonable. You're once again not even trying to look at this from the Amil perspective. All you ever do is misrepresnt Amill. You need to stop commenting on Amill unitl you learn what we actually believe.

In the event satan's little season does happen before the 2nd coming, in that case you are not the one winning the argument here, only in your mind if you think so, the one winning the argument here would be @TribulationSigns, certainly not you.

LOL. Total nonsense. To say that no one can be saved during Satan's little season is equivalent to saying that Jesus doesn't reign and no one reigns with Him during Satan's little season. Is that what you think?

But you are too prideful to ever admit that.

I am not too prideful to admit when I am wrong just like I did when I admitted to being wrong when I believed in Premil. What I won't admit is that you have any idea of what you're talking about, because you don't.

Actually, you are probably one of the most prideful persons I have ever encountered.

It's not prideful to be confident about what you believe. Confidence and pride are not the same thing. You don't know me at all. You believe strongly and are confident that you are correct as well. Does that mean you're being prideful?

In your mind, you can't be wrong about anything.

Total nonsense. You need to stop acting like you are God. You don't know me at all. Not even slightly. The reality is that God can't be wrong about anything and my confidnce is in Him to show me the truth.

It's always the other person that is wrong. And you're just too prideful to admit, that in some cases the other person is correct, not you.

That is simply not true. Do you have anything to offer except for your lies about me?

 

[TribulationSigns]

My point about the 5 months not meaning forever has to do with the fact, regardless whether the 5 months are literal, or if they are not, this 5 months expire eventually. What then does it mean when these 5 months are in the past? We have to keep in mind that this is during the 5th trumpet and that there is the 6th trumpet that follows that. Not to mention, the 7th trumpet that follows that trumpet. IOW, as of the 6th trumpet, these 5 months would be in the past at this point.

Sorry but NOTHING in the book of Revelation is just a normal number or time without any symbolic, representational or spiritual meaning to it! The entire book of Revelation is a collage of cryptic numbers, figures, imagery, enigmatic representations, symbolism, analogies and metaphors. For me to agree with that would be like saying the one thousand year reign was just a normal one thousand years (as some Theologians also did before 1000 years had passed). Or that the 7 churches simply spoke concerning those literal seven churches in Turkey. I can't agree with that as the seven are a "representation" a symbol of some deeper spiritual truth. Seven being the number of completeness or the totality. There's not a single number in the book of Revelation that does NOT carry some symbolic spiritual significance. These numbers, like the imagery of the pit, dragon, smoke, locusts, stings, etc., aren't literal/physical, and so how can we think that we can take the 5 months out of this "symbolic context" and make it literally 5 months, huh?! That does not make any sense! No more than saying the 2 Witnesses are literally two individual witnesses. It's contrary to the whole of Scripture. Especially from a book where numbers are so obviously used symbolically. For example the 42 months, the 144,000 sealed of Israel, the 24 elders before the throne, the 1000 year reign, the 10 horns of the Dragon, the 7 Spirits of God, the 2 witnesses, the 4 horsemen, the 12 stars in heaven, and so on and so on. The 5 months "represents" the time period between when God gives authority to open the bottomless bit or abyss and loose the spirit of Antichrist against His rebellious house, and the time when the house is left in ruins or desolated. This as judgment for their rebellion in serving lawless man rather than God. As in Revelation 20 where Satan and his minions come against the camp of the saints, NOT against the world, which he already have enslaved. He gathers the nations against the camp of believers. He wants to extend his rule to the kingdom of God on earth. Revelation 9:1-2 correlates to Revelation chapter 20 when Satan is loosed from this same bottomless pit to assault the camp of the saints.

Revelation 9:1-2

• "And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
• And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit."

The messenger (star) that John saw had fallen was given the key to the bottomless pit by the Lord in order to render judgment upon his unrepenting church. This is just as God promised the fallen star, the messenger of the church, what would happen if he didn't repent from his evil. God promised that his (the star's) church would be removed out of its place. The same rule always applies, that Scripture interprets Scripture, God's word explains God's word, not man. And God interprets both the star that had fallen and the result of it if he didn't repent.

Revelation 1:20

• "The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the messengers of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches."

The Lord Himself decyphers the mystery of the symbol of the star and the Candlestick (lampstand) in His word so that there can be no misunderstanding in this uncovering. The stars He reveals are actually the messengers of the churches, and the candlesticks He assures us are actually the churches. This is according to God's revelation of the mystery of this symbolism. Now we read further and discern the warning that God Himself specifically gives to the star that had fallen.

Revelation 2:5

• "Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent."

So then we have God's interpretation of the heaven from which the star fell, exactly what the star that had fallen represented, and that God would indeed bring judgment upon that stars church by removing it out of its place if the messenger didn't remember from where he had fallen and repent. Allowing the Relevator to reveal this truth we see that God illustrates that it is because of this fallen star that the church is judged, and God removes it out of its place.

Indeed, only Christ has the key to the bottomless pit and at the appointed time of judgment upon the fallen star will He loose the spirit of Satan from the pit that his church be removed out of its place. This removal of the candlestick (the church) is what darkens the world (Luke 8:16-17). i.e., the light that was once there is put out or become dim when it is removed. These are spiritual truths concerning God's judgment upon lawless man, the fallen messenger that is ruling in His holy Temple as if he were God. The 5 months of this anguish upon the church for the messengers rebellion is the length of time of the great tribulation there. This great tribulation of the church is the same torment of those who are hurt by the locust-like deceivers who devour the greenery and fruitful fields that is representative of God's house. In other words, all those there within the congregation of God that are without the seal of God. Without the true security of the Spirit. It's the plague sent by God likened unto locusts upon the grass, to devastation and ruin.

Selah!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Why do you waste time with arguments like that?

Why do you waste time trying to comment on anything related to Amil when you don't have any understanding of what we actually believe?

Maybe some Amils think that you don't even have to have part in the first resurrection in order to be saved, lol? Thus, during satan's little season being the exception to that.

No Amils believe that. You are clueless. If someone says that we can only be saved during the thousand years and not during Satan's little season then, to me, that's like saying Christ doesn't reign and no one reigns with Him during Satan's little season. But, scripture teaches that He will reign until the last enemy, death, is defeated (1 Cor 15:25-26), and that occurs at the end of Satan's little season, not at the beginning.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

Further proof? How can there be further proof when there is no proof to begin with?

Just because you can't see it.... doesn't mean it's not true.

He will reign until the last enemy, death, is defeated (1 Cor 15:25-26)

Yep, and as The KIng.... Jesus is going to allow satan to have 3 1/2 years of power which is the same amount of Time Jesus had in His earthly ministry

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

It is God's interpretation with Scripture I quoted that you are in denial.

LOL. Are you sure you're an Amill? You say ridiculous things like this just like Premils often do. No, you shared YOUR interpretation of the scripture. I am in denial that your interpretation is correct. I would never deny anything God says.

Work this out with God, especially when you have not quoted a single verse in your false accusation.

What a lie. I have quoted plenty of verses in this discussion.

Show me the Scripture that says otherwise. I am waiting.

I already have. Are you actually reading my posts or not? I have referenced 2nd Peter 3 where Peter indicates that the Lord will be patient with people, giving them to repent up until the time when it will be too late when He comes as a thief in the night and burns up the earth (2 Peter 3:8-13).

You love because of His spirit in you. Your new nature. Robots? LOL.

Are you even trying to see the point? How can love be forced rather than being a matter of the will? It can't be. Love is an act of the will and isn't something that someone just does because God made them do it or basically programmed them to do it (which is why I referenced robots).

Oh yeah?

Yeah. What is this, third grade?

Says who? You or God?

Both.

For in truth, Predestination is the testimony of the Holy Father. Because not only did God predestinate us, but it was predetermined that we "would be" conformed to the likeness of His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ.

Yes, but not without us having any choice in the matter. I assume you think God also predestined unbelievers that they would not be conformed to the likeness of Jesus and instead would be predestined to be condemned to the lake of fire. Why would God do that to those people? Scripture says "God is love" (1 John 4:8,16). How can a God of love predestine people to an eternity of torment by His choice with them having no choice in the matter? That makes no sense. Instead, it makes sense that a God of love would offer salvation to all people while giving all people the choice to accept it or not.

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people.

What is your explanation for God offering salvation to all people, but not all people are saved? Do you think it wasn't a genuine offer for people who don't end up being saved?

Romans 8:29-30

• "For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
• Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified."

So then, it was God (not you or me) who unambiguously stated that we Christians were not only predestinated "to be conformed" to the likeness of Christ, but also that it was done for His own purposes, and according to His own will, and not our free will. It doesn't get much plainer or more transparent than that.

It couldn't get much plainer that you draw conclusions from isolated passages like this without taking all of scripture into account. Such as Titus 2:11 that I refernced above. How could it be that salvation is entirely up to God, as you believe, when God offers salvation to all people? Do you even try to reconcile that or do you have a version of the Bible that doesn't include verses like Titus 2:11 or verses like 1 Timothy 2:3-6 that says God wants all people to be saved or verses like 1 John 2:1-2 which says that Jesus died for not only our sins, but the sins of the whole world?

I am only interested in what God has divinely inspired written--which is the doctrines of His sovereign grace, as opposed to man's corruption, plagiarism and renaming it.

No, you are only interested in cherry picking the scriptures that you think support those doctrines whlie ignoring may others.

Ephesians 1:5-6

• "Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
• To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved."

According to the good pleasure of his will, not our free will. Selah.

You are misinterpreeting all of the passages you quote. You can't possibly reconcile them with the other scriptures that I'm referencing, but you don't seem to even take those scriptures into consideration. What thta passage means is that anyone who believes in Christ is predestined to be adopted as His children. It's not referring to specific individuals being predestined, it's talking about anyone who chooses to beleve in Christ is predestined to be adopted as one of His children. It was the good pleasure of his will to send His Son to die for the sins of the whole world so that He could then offer salvation to all people while making them responsible to choose whether to repent and believe in Jesus or not. People are condemned for rejecting and not believing in Jesus (John 3:18). But, you say that they are condemned from birth even before they are capable of either believing in Jesus or not.

Yes, but

There's no "yes, but...". Acept what the passages says or not. And it says faith comes first and then the HOly Spirit comes to dwell in us. You have it the other way aroudn, but all you can say in response is "Yes, but...". But nothing.

that's like saying "After I was redeemed of God, I was sealed by the spirit."

No, it isn't like saying that at all. Don't try to change the subject, which is in relation to what it says in Ephesians 1:12-13 which is that faith comes first and then comes the Holy Spirit to dwell in us and seal us. There is not "Yes, but..." about this. You either agree with that order of things or not.

It is God's interpretation with Scripture I quoted that you are in denial. Work this out with God, especially when you have not quoted a single verse in your false accusation.

You think you are God? I didn't see any interpretation of scripture besides yours being shared and it's your interpretation that I disagree with. And I have been quoting plenty of verses all along, so don't even go there.

You clearly have not given this particular topic nearly enough thought because your view is clearly based on a limited number of verses without taking many other verses into account.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Just because you can't see it.... doesn't mean it's not true.

I'm saying that no one has proven it to be true. Which is true. No one has come even close, in my opinion.

Yep, and as The KIng.... Jesus is going to allow satan to have 3 1/2 years of power which is the same amount of Time Jesus had in His earthly ministry

I was referring to Jesus reigning until the last enemy, death, is destroyed (1 Cor 15:25-26). When do you think death will be destroyed? Clearly, it can't be until the last person dies and there's no more death afterwards, right? So, that would mean it will happen after the thousand years and at the end of Satan's little season, right? So, are you saying you believe Satan's little season that occurs when the thousand years ends will be 3 1/2 years long?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Sorry but NOTHING in the book of Revelation is just a normal number or time without any symbolic, representational or spiritual meaning to it! The entire book of Revelation is a collage of cryptic numbers, figures, imagery, enigmatic representations, symbolism, analogies and metaphors. For me to agree with that would be like saying the one thousand year reign was just a normal one thousand years (as some Theologians also did before 1000 years had passed).

I agree. I don't believe any of the time periods referenced in the book of Revelation are meant to be taken literally. The purpose of the book is to reveal spiritual truths about things that occur during the New Testament time period and not to tell us exactly when certain things will happen or for exactly how long they will happen. Most Premills don't understand this.

Or that the 7 churches simply spoke concerning those literal seven churches in Turkey. I can't agree with that as the seven are a "representation" a symbol of some deeper spiritual truth. Seven being the number of completeness or the totality.

I basically agree, but it does reference 7 actual churches that existed in the first century in the Roman province of Asia. So, I hope you're not trying to say that they weren't actual churches or anything like that. While some of the messages in Revelation 2 and 3 were specifically in relation to things happening in those seven churches back then, some of the messages apply to the whole church. Such as any mention of anything relating to those who overcome. That applies to the whole church in all generations.

There's not a single number in the book of Revelation that does NOT carry some symbolic spiritual significance. These numbers, like the imagery of the pit, dragon, smoke, locusts, stings, etc., aren't literal/physical, and so how can we think that we can take the 5 months out of this "symbolic context" and make it literally 5 months, huh?! That does not make any sense!

I agree. The book itself is said to be signified (Revelation 1:1), so it purposely contains a great deal of symbolism. Much more than Premills think.

No more than saying the 2 Witnesses are literally two individual witnesses. It's contrary to the whole of Scripture. Especially from a book where numbers are so obviously used symbolically. For example the 42 months, the 144,000 sealed of Israel, the 24 elders before the throne, the 1000 year reign, the 10 horns of the Dragon, the 7 Spirits of God, the 2 witnesses, the 4 horsemen, the 12 stars in heaven, and so on and so on.

Agree.

The 5 months "represents" the time period between when God gives authority to open the bottomless bit or abyss and loose the spirit of Antichrist against His rebellious house, and the time when the house is left in ruins or desolated. This as judgment for their rebellion in serving lawless man rather than God. As in Revelation 20 where Satan and his minions come against the camp of the saints, NOT against the world, which he already have enslaved. He gathers the nations against the camp of believers. He wants to extend his rule to the kingdom of God on earth. Revelation 9:1-2 correlates to Revelation chapter 20 when Satan is loosed from this same bottomless pit to assault the camp of the saints.

I don't agree with everything you said here, but I do agree fully with your last sentence. It's not worth arguing about the rest. We're arguing enough already elsewhere about a different topic.

 

[Davy]

Historically, scripture shows that the Church began on Pentecost when the Holy Spirit lighted upon the disciples. Act 2. Started with 3000 and added thereto. It was the beginning of the preaching of the Gospel to the world. Christ is the foundation and Head of that Church which was built upon by the disciples and all Christians hence forth. It is this Church which will endure to the end, and Satan cannot prevail against it. This is how it has been recognized throughout Church history.

 

[Davy]

None of that prove he has been required to stay in the pit and doesn't prove he's even been to the pit yet.

Maybe you ought to write your own FANTASY BIBLE, since you can't seem to stay with what is actually written in God's Word.

I showed you the Isaiah 24 Scripture and the Rev.9 Scripture which declare Satan as the "angel of the bottomless pit" and that "pit" as the "prison" of Isaiah 24 where the kings will be locked up when Jesus returns, which defines the pit of Rev.20. I even referred to Isaiah 42:7 at one point, which was prophecy about Christ's 1st coming when after His resurrection He would go to the "spirits in prison" and preach The Gospel to them, and bring those who believed out of the darkness of that heavenly prison house! But just like a horse, cannot lead a horse to water if they would rather rebel against their thirst.

 

[TribulationSigns]

LOL. Are you sure you're an Amill?

More true Amill than you ever been, Mr-I-Believe-the-Olivet-Discourse-was-about-the-first-century.

What a lie. I have quoted plenty of verses in this discussion.

Not really. You have been emphasized on 2nd Peter 3 again and again with a wrong understanding.

I already have. Are you actually reading my posts or not?

What do you think?

I have referenced 2nd Peter 3 where Peter indicates that the Lord will be patient with people, giving them to repent up until the time when it will be too late when He comes as a thief in the night and burns up the earth (2 Peter 3:8-13).

We disagreed on this. Shall we move on?

Are you even trying to see the point? How can love be forced rather than being a matter of the will? It can't be. Love is an act of the will and isn't something that someone just does because God made them do it or basically programmed them to do it (which is why I referenced robots).

No, you don't get it. This doesn't make any sense to me. If He foreknew that men would come to him of their own free will, then there is no need to Predestinate or "Determine-before" that men would come to Him. Since (according to you) He already foresaw it. Why predetermine something you already saw as determined? It makes no sense.

We all agree that God "foreknew." Therefore, if we all believe in the "authority" of the scriptures, then we know that what He foreknew was that man's righteousness was as filthy rags, and that there were None that were good, and there were None that would seek after God. No, not even one!

Romans 3:11-12

• "There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
• They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one."

Yes, God foresaw. And this is "what" God foresaw when He looked down through the halls of time. He saw that man's righteousness was as a filthy rag, and that there was not one who was good, and that there was not one who would seek after Him. And so being Omniscient, He "foresaw" that He had to "choose" by His own sovereign good will, whosoever He wanted.
Romans 8:29

• "For whom he did foreknow, he also did Predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren."

For God understood perfectly what a lot of professing Christians today don't seem to understand. The total inability of man to, by his own free will, seek after God. He had to be Predestinated "to be" conformed to Christ's image.

John 6:44

• "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day."

When God foreknew, He knew that by nature, through the fall, all men were enemies of God, and adversarial to His laws and Holiness. Unregenerate man is in a state of impotency as far as believing unto Life, and without God drawing him, working in him to will and do, not one would seek.
Sounds like robots to you? I think not!

Both.

Nope.

Yes, but not without us having any choice in the matter. I assume you think God also predestined unbelievers that they would not be conformed to the likeness of Jesus and instead would be predestined to be condemned to the lake of fire. Why would God do that to those people? Scripture says "God is love" (1 John 4:8,16). How can a God of love predestine people to an eternity of torment by His choice with them having no choice in the matter? That makes no sense. Instead, it makes sense that a God of love would offer salvation to all people while giving all people the choice to accept it or not.

Read the verses above.

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people.

Salvation to ALL people? Really? Try to use KJV, dude.

Tit 2:11 "For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men"

And cross reference this with these verses:
John 3:17 "For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. "

Mat 1:20-21 "But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins."

Sounds like all people? Nope.

Do you even try to reconcile that or do you have a version of the Bible that doesn't include verses like Titus 2:11 or verses like 1 Timothy 2:3-6 that says God wants all people to be saved or verses like 1 John 2:1-2 which says that Jesus died for not only our sins, but the sins of the whole world?

1Jn 2:1-2
(1) My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
(2) And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Indeed it does, because if He was the propitiation for the sins of ALL people in the world, then no one in the world has any sin, meaning they are all saved. Is that what you think? But that is TOTALLY unbiblical. The word propitiation there means "atonement" and it goes without saying (or should) that if Christ had atoned for the sins of all in the world, then none in the world would have sins. The Apostle is saying not only for our (the Jews) only, but for the whole world. Q.E.D., He was not the propitiation for every single person in the world, but every single person in the world who had their sins atoned for, it was done by Christ. There is none other name whereby it could happen. Again, as it is written:

Matthew 1:21

• "And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save His people from their sins."

Because He will save all people from their sins? No, that He would save His people. And His people are those of the whole world to Jesus Christ, not just Israel. Selah!

No, you are only interested in cherry picking the scriptures that you think support those doctrines whlie ignoring may others.

You think? Is that what I am doing above?

You are misinterpreeting all of the passages you quote.

I do not think so.

You think you are God?

No but I am a witness of God's Word that offends you. Selah.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

I showed you the Isaiah 24 Scripture and the Rev.9 Scripture which declare Satan as the "angel of the bottomless pit" and that "pit" as the "prison" of Isaiah 24 where the kings will be locked up when Jesus returns

Yes... WHEN Jesus returns....

Those references never says that he confined to the bottom less put yet. 1 Peter 5:8 plainly tells us he is roaming about seeking whom he may devour.

I even referred to Isaiah 42:7 at one point, which was prophecy about Christ's 1st coming when after His resurrection He would go to the "spirits in prison" and preach The Gospel to them, and bring those who believed out of the darkness of that heavenly prison house!

That has nothing to do with your claim that satan is in the pit currently... cause he's not.

You really need a better hobby.... this trying to learn God's Word thing is really not working too well for you.