Miscellaneous observations on the Pre Trib Rapture

[The Light]

The two witnesses prophesy for 42 months, unable to be killed, until that time is over, and the beast kills them. The beast is given authority for 42 months, ending when Jesus returns. These facts tell us that the two witnesses prophesy during the first half of the 70th week, and that the beast kills them halfway through the week.

Much love!

Not possible as the 2 witnesses are killed just before the 7th trumpet which is the end of God's wrath.

 

[marks]

Not possible as the 2 witnesses are killed just before the 7th trumpet which is the end of God's wrath.

I'm just saying what the Bible says. The two witnesses cannot be killed until after the 42 months of testimony. The beast cannot kill them until he receives power for 42 months, ending when Jesus returns. This is the only option the Bible allows.

Much love!

 

[The Light]

Ive not seen a verse say the sheat is gathered before the tares.
Mathew 13
30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

The verse you have posted is after the thousand years.

Here is the fruit harvest which occurs at the 6th seal. Note that the righteous are gathered first and the unrighteous are cast into the wrath of God.

Revelation 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

 

[The Light]

I'm just saying what the Bible says. The two witnesses cannot be killed until after the 42 months of testimony. The beast cannot kill them until he receives power for 42 months, ending when Jesus returns. This is the only option the Bible allows.

Much love!

Hi Marks,

You made this statement......"These facts tell us that the two witnesses prophesy during the first half of the 70th week, and that the beast kills them halfway through the week."

This does not occur in the first half of the week. It occurs in the last half.

 

[marks]

Hi Marks,

You made this statement......"These facts tell us that the two witnesses prophesy during the first half of the 70th week, and that the beast kills them halfway through the week."

This does not occur in the first half of the week. It occurs in the last half.

Not according to these Scriptures.

Much love!

 

[The Light]

Not according to these Scriptures.

Much love!

The two witnesses are killed at the second woe. The third woe is the 7th trumpet. The 7th trumpet is then end of the wrath of God which is the end of the day of the Lord. I think the two witnesses will begin their testimony one year before the middle of the week, and finish 1 year before the week is over.

 

[marks]

The two witnesses are killed at the second woe. The third woe is the 7th trumpet. The 7th trumpet is then end of the wrath of God which is the end of the day of the Lord. I think the two witnesses will begin their testimony one year before the middle of the week, and finish 1 year before the week is over.

I don't know how you get around the timeline. It's specific.

Much love!

 

[The Light]

I don't know how you get around the timeline. It's specific.

Much love!

Marks,
I don't understand how you are concluding this and calling it specific. The two witnesses are killed at the 2nd woe. The second woe is at the end of Gods wrath. How are you concluding that the 3.5 years is the first half of the week.

 

[tailgator]

Ok you got me on that one. I have talked to my tree.

But surely your not suggesting that I made it up, that you shouldn't talk to your plants?

I heard that from others long ago when I was a kid, talk to your plants and then they grow better! And I'm just that kind of guy who says oh yeah, I'll try that. Men have spoken to plants and even the land itself, for 1000's of years.

Would you like to hear a testimony about when I was talking to my Tomato plants, and they started dancing for me in appreciation?

So it's not a case of one flew over the cukoos nest but rather along the lines of, once upon a time there was a blind man who could not see or hear...and many other people. A lot of it is scriptural. Would you rather see some verses on it?

I've read of cedars in Lebanon rejoicing because netanyahu ,I mean the king of Babylon is overthrown by the Medes ,but I'm sure it's talking about Hezbollah or Lebanon's citizens and not actual trees.

Isaiah 14
7 The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing.

8 Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying, Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us.



The same celebration is found in revelation 11 when the two witnesses occupying Netanyahu's capital city lay dead


Revelation 11
10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.



And of course its a short lived celebration for all the Muslim nations who have conquered the Israeli goverment ,it's protectors and it's citizens,for the day of the Lord arrives 3.5 days into their celebration and they are consumed and the kingdom becomes Christs.

Israel 14
29 Rejoice not thou, whole Palestina, because the rod of him that smote thee is broken: for out of the serpent's root shall come forth a cockatrice, and his fruit shall be a fiery flying serpent.

30 And the firstborn of the poor shall feed, and the needy shall lie down in safety: and I will kill thy root with famine, and he shall slay thy remnant.

31 Howl, O gate; cry, O city; thou, whole Palestina, art dissolved: for there shall come from the north a smoke, and none shall be alone in his appointed times.

32 What shall one then answer the messengers of the nation? That the Lord hath founded Zion, and the poor of his people shall trust in it.


Revelation 11
15 The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, which said:

“The kingdom of the world has become
the kingdom of our Lord and of his Messiah,
and he will reign for ever and ever.”

 

[tailgator]

The verse you have posted is after the thousand years.

Here is the fruit harvest which occurs at the 6th seal. Note that the righteous are gathered first and the unrighteous are cast into the wrath of God.

Revelation 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

No, the quote I posted is about Jesus's kingdom.
The land given to the saints to reign in at the beginning of the millinium.

Mathew 13
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.



The righteous shining forth in the kingdom of their father are the 144000 in revelation 14 .They reign with Christ during the thousand years.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

They have white garments and are on horses as is Jesus.
They are real.

Revelation 19:8 specifically indicates that the garments symbolically represent "the righteosuness of saints". So, it's not literal white garments. But, you go ahead and believe that anyway if you want. But, to be consistent you should also believe that the sword coming out of Jesus's mouth is literal as well. So, is that what you believe?

 

[The Light]

I've read of cedars in Lebanon rejoicing because netanyahu ,I mean the king of Babylon is overthrown by the Medes ,but I'm sure it's talking about Hezbollah or Lebanon's citizens and not actual trees.

Isaiah 14
7 The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing.

8 Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying, Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us.

The cedars of Lebanon rejoice because Nimrod is laid down. Nimrod cut down the cedars of Lebanon to build his cities found in Genesis 10. Nimrod sat on a throne of the cedars of Lebanon.

The fir trees rejoice because Nimrod is laid down. Nimrod and Tammuz the supposed reincarnation of Nimrod are celebrated because the fir tree represents them. This is why the Christmas tree is cut down every year. They represent Nimrod. No feller comes against the fir trees and the cedars of Lebanon after Nimrod is laid down. The earth will be at rest in the millennial kingdom.

Nimrod is the beast of the sea of Revelation 13. He is the king of Babylon and the Assyrian.

Babylon is NOT Jerusalem.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

It is like you forbid something literal and symbolic at the same time.

What does that even mean? How can something be both literal and symbolic at the same time? That's what someone claims who can't decide whether something is literal or symbolic, so they resort to saying it's both even though that makes no sense. What exactly are you saying is both literal and symbolic? The fine linen? The white horses?

Here is a post tribber bonus for free.

the tares that are gathered and burned is called the Lake of fire, which is after the millennium.

I don't know if post tribbers realize "gathered and burned" Is the lake a fire

Whew... so many things they have upside down.

I'm a post tribber and I believe that the tares will be burned in the lake of fire after the thousand years, also. But, there are also pretribbers who would disagree with you on this, so I don't know what your point is here. What you're saying here certainly doesn't do anything to disprove post-trib, as I understand it.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

No, the quote I posted is about Jesus's kingdom.
The land given to the saints to reign in at the beginning of the millinium.

Mathew 13
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.



The righteous shining forth in the kingdom of their father are the 144000 in revelation 14 .They reign with Christ during the thousand years.

You believe that the kingdom of Christ is established at the time when Matthew 13:41-43 occurs, right? Did you read verse 43? It says at that point, which is at the end of the age (verse 40), "then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father".

Notice that it refers to "the kingdom of their Father" rather than the kingdom of Christ? That is because Jesus will have delivered His kingdom, which we are currently in and did not come with observation (Luke 17:20) and is not of this world (John 18:36), to the Father at that point (1 Cor 15:22-24). So, that is referring to inheriting the kingdom of God for eternity, not for a thousand years. That passage you quoted does not support your interpretation of Revelation 20.

 

[tailgator]

The cedars of Lebanon rejoice because Nimrod is laid down. Nimrod cut down the cedars of Lebanon to build his cities found in Genesis 10. Nimrod sat on a throne of the cedars of Lebanon.

The fir trees rejoice because Nimrod is laid down. Nimrod and Tammuz the supposed reincarnation of Nimrod are celebrated because the fir tree represents them. This is why the Christmas tree is cut down every year. They represent Nimrod. No feller comes against the fir trees and the cedars of Lebanon after Nimrod is laid down. The earth will be at rest in the millennial kingdom.

Nimrod is the beast of the sea of Revelation 13. He is the king of Babylon and the Assyrian.

Babylon is NOT Jerusalem.

The day of the Lord was not the day rimrod died .
It's the day all nations come against Jerusalem ransacking the houses and raping the women.

Isaiah 13

9 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.

10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.

11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.

12 I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir.

13 Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the Lord of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.

14 And it shall be as the chased roe, and as a sheep that no man taketh up: they shall every man turn to his own people, and flee every one into his own land.

15 Every one that is found shall be thrust through; and every one that is joined unto them shall fall by the sword.

16 Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished.

17 Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them, which shall not regard silver; and as for gold, they shall not delight in it.







The only king Iran is going to come against is the apostate king of Israel sitting in Jerusalem.

 

[tailgator]

The cedars of Lebanon rejoice because Nimrod is laid down. Nimrod cut down the cedars of Lebanon to build his cities found in Genesis 10. Nimrod sat on a throne of the cedars of Lebanon.

The fir trees rejoice because Nimrod is laid down. Nimrod and Tammuz the supposed reincarnation of Nimrod are celebrated because the fir tree represents them. This is why the Christmas tree is cut down every year. They represent Nimrod. No feller comes against the fir trees and the cedars of Lebanon after Nimrod is laid down. The earth will be at rest in the millennial kingdom.

Nimrod is the beast of the sea of Revelation 13. He is the king of Babylon and the Assyrian.

Babylon is NOT Jerusalem.

All nations come against Babylon on the day of the Lord ransacking the houses and raping the women.

Zech 14
14 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

Babylon is Jerusalem.​

 

[The Light]

All nations come against Babylon on the day of the Lord ransacking the houses and raping the women.

Zech 14
14 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

Babylon is Jerusalem.​

I see nothing in these verses that refer to Jerusalem. You might start by realizing that the King of Babylon is Nimrod. The Assyrian is Nimrod. They are not Benjamin Netanyahu.

Additionally, the judgement against Babylon is against the land of Chaldeans. It is the Medes, the people without a country that come against the land of Chaldeans.................not all nations. You want to know when all nations came against Babylon. That was Gulf War I. You want to know when a great nation came against Babylon. That was Gulf war two. The Medes will come against Babylon.......the land of the Chaldeans in the Day of the Lord.

You are dreaming these thing up.......such the cedars of Lebanon are people and not trees. You are making this up to fit what you want it to fit. Why not take the scripture and believe what it says. The cedars of Lebanon and the fir trees rejoice when Nimrod the king of Babylon is laid down.

There is not a chance in China that Jerusalem is Babylon. Does Jerusalem carry a gold cup in her hand. Does Jerusalem dress in purple and scarlet or BLUE, purple and scarlet? Has Jerusalem made the nations rich?

 

[The Light]

The day of the Lord was not the day rimrod died .

Never said it was. The day of the Lord is the one year wrath of God. At the end of wrath the beast is cast into the lake of fire. During the wrath of God, the Medes carry out the judgement of Babylon.

It's the day all nations come against Jerusalem ransacking the houses and raping the women.

Which has nothing to do with Babylon. Babylon is the land of the Chaldeans and she will receive her judgement.

Isaiah 13

9 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.

10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.

11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.

12 I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir.

13 Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the Lord of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.

14 And it shall be as the chased roe, and as a sheep that no man taketh up: they shall every man turn to his own people, and flee every one into his own land.

15 Every one that is found shall be thrust through; and every one that is joined unto them shall fall by the sword.

16 Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished.

17 Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them, which shall not regard silver; and as for gold, they shall not delight in it.


The only king Iran is going to come against is the apostate king of Israel sitting in Jerusalem.

The Medes are NOT the Iranians. They are the Kurd.......a people without a country that live in Iraq, Iran, Turkey and Syria. Iranians are Iranians. They are not the Medes which are modern day Kurds.

Secondly, you have conveniently left off the rest of the verses which tell us where Babylon is. I will quote them for you.

Isaiah 13

18 Their bows also shall dash the young men to pieces; and they shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb; their eyes shall not spare children.

19 And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the beauty of the Chaldees' excellency, shall be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah.

20 It shall never be inhabited, neither shall it be dwelt in from generation to generation: neither shall the Arabian pitch tent there; neither shall the shepherds make their fold there.

21 But wild beasts of the desert shall lie there; and their houses shall be full of doleful creatures; and owls shall dwell there, and satyrs shall dance there.

22 And the wild beasts of the islands shall cry in their desolate houses, and dragons in their pleasant palaces: and her time is near to come, and her days shall not be prolonged.

Babylon cannot be Jerusalem because Babylon will NOT be inhabited again.............FOREVER. The scriptures that you failed to quote tell us Babylon will not be inhabited EVER. So Jerusalem is NOT Babylon.

 

[tailgator]

Never said it was. The day of the Lord is the one year wrath of God. At the end of wrath the beast is cast into the lake of fire. During the wrath of God, the Medes carry out the judgement of Babylon.


Which has nothing to do with Babylon. Babylon is the land of the Chaldeans and she will receive her judgement.

The Medes are NOT the Iranians. They are the Kurd.......a people without a country that live in Iraq, Iran, Turkey and Syria. Iranians are Iranians. They are not the Medes which are modern day Kurds.

Secondly, you have conveniently left off the rest of the verses which tell us where Babylon is. I will quote them for you.

Isaiah 13

18 Their bows also shall dash the young men to pieces; and they shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb; their eyes shall not spare children.

19 And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the beauty of the Chaldees' excellency, shall be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah.

20 It shall never be inhabited, neither shall it be dwelt in from generation to generation: neither shall the Arabian pitch tent there; neither shall the shepherds make their fold there.

21 But wild beasts of the desert shall lie there; and their houses shall be full of doleful creatures; and owls shall dwell there, and satyrs shall dance there.

22 And the wild beasts of the islands shall cry in their desolate houses, and dragons in their pleasant palaces: and her time is near to come, and her days shall not be prolonged.

Babylon cannot be Jerusalem because Babylon will NOT be inhabited again.............FOREVER. The scriptures that you failed to quote tell us Babylon will not be inhabited EVER. So Jerusalem is NOT Babylon.

All nations will be in Jerusalem ransacking the houses and raping the women on the day of the Lord as Zechariah says.All nations includes the Medes whom Isaiah says will be in Babylon ransacking the houses and raping the women on the day of the Lord.


I'm not sure which prophet of God you are saying is lying.It sounds like you are saying Zechariah is lying and all nations including the Medes will not be in Jerusalem on the day of the Lord ransacking the houses and raping the women.


All nations including the Medes will be in Jerusalem or not on the day of the Lord?
.

Zech 14
14 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.



Are all nations (including the Medes)in Jerusalem or not.Or are you calling Zechariah a false prophet?

 

[The Light]

All nations will be in Jerusalem ransacking the houses and raping the women on the day of the Lord as Zechariah says.All nations includes the Medes whom Isaiah says will be in Babylon ransacking the houses and raping the women on the day of the Lord.

Exactly Jerusalem. And Jerusalem is not Babylon as you claim.

I'm not sure which prophet of God you are saying is lying.It sounds like you are saying Zechariah is lying and all nations including the Medes will not be in Jerusalem on the day of the Lord ransacking the houses and raping the women.

Where do I say anyone is lying. I'm saying your claims are wrong according to the scriptures. You claim that Jerusalem is Babylon and yet ignore all the scriptural evidence that says it is not.

All nations including the Medes will be in Jerusalem or not on the day of the Lord?
.

Zech 14
14 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.



Are all nations (including the Medes)in Jerusalem or not.Or are you calling Zechariah a false prophet?

I'm saying that you draw incorrect conclusions based on part of scripture.

Isaiah 13

18 Their bows also shall dash the young men to pieces; and they shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb; their eyes shall not spare children.

19 And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the beauty of the Chaldees' excellency, shall be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah.

20 It shall never be inhabited, neither shall it be dwelt in from generation to generation: neither shall the Arabian pitch tent there; neither shall the shepherds make their fold there.

Why not just realize that you are in error? Isaiah says that when the judgement comes during the day of the Lord that Babylon will NEVER be inhabited again. FOREVER. If Jerusalem is Babylon how can this be true?

You just skip past the FACTS of scripture and draw a conclusion that is totally incorrect. Aren't you seeking the truth? It's obvious that you are incorrect when we read the rest of Zechariah 14. Why did you stop reading?

Zechariah 14
16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

Plain as day the scripture says Babylon will never inhabited after judgement comes. And plain as day it says all nations that came against Jerusalem will come every year to worship the king.

Babylon is not Jerusalem...............based on scriptural FACTS.