So what does the divinity of Jesus really mean, anyway?

[brightfame52]

I do believe the scripture. I take issue with the interpretation contrived by the Catholics in 325AD.

Its self explanatory Jn 1:1,14

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

14 And the Word[which was God] was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Dont you ever tell me you believe the scripture ! You dont

 

[Taken]

I don't know what you are talking about. I'm talking about language, grammar, and vocabulary in the context of your claim that God isn't a person. I gave you an example of a creed wherein God is called a person.

Angels (created celestial spirit beings) are called “men” when they take a form (body) upon themselves that “look” like a “human” earthly creature “that IS a man”.

God also Spirit, can also take upon Himself, a form (body) that “looks” like a “human” earthly creature “that IS a man”.

God Does NOT change. He is always Spirit. When Gods Spirit took upon Himself a (Form / Body) and said call Him JESUS, the Son of God….that is Gods Prerogative to call Himself whatever He chooses….
just as human men, have the power that they can look on the outside, depicting what they are Not, call themselves whatever they please.

Bruce Jenner, chose to dress like a female, call Him Catlin… but Yet is still a male, with no ovaries And no milk glands And narrow hips.

Living human bodies with a living soul In them, are Persons.

Angels (Spirits), God (Spirit), do not become Humans….and Human Persons, do not become Angels…or God….

Humans can Become “Like” God….and “be made (by, through, of) Gods Power, to HAVE an everlasting Spirit, that will never die.

It is part of the Gift God offered to manKind, who willingly choose to accept His Gift (according to Gods “terms”…ie, Order/ Way).

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[CadyandZoe]

Its self explanatory Jn 1:1,14

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

14 And the Word[which was God] was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Dont you ever tell me you believe the scripture ! You dont

Repeating something doesn't make it true. But let me say that creative people can make a couple of verses say whatever they want to hear.

 

[CadyandZoe]

The Father, The Son, The Holy Spirit Are All the Same One God Spirit….having Power Greater than All of Gods Creation.

Jesus met the woman at the well. During that conversation, he told her that God is a Spirit. Try to hear his words as she would hear them. From her perspective, Jesus is a man, not a spirit.

Living human body’s …all have A living soul (which that soul and the Life in that soul belongs to God), but is called and identified by the body’s Name.

The human body’s Life is Blood.
Humans can and do Kill human body’s.
Ultimately God “requires” that All human body’s, must, shall die.

A created Human Alive Body’s, with a living soul IN that body; is Expressly called ”A Person”.

God Revealed “IF” God were a human Man, WHAT His Body “would” Look LIKE….TO Human EYES…
* A short statured, male, not particularly handsome, with characteristics generally noticed in human Jewish men, prominate nose, dark eyes, wavy hair, brownish skin…

Remembering, as can Created Spirits (angels) taken UPON themselves the “likeness of Human looking Bodies”…
Beneath THAT Visible ( to human eyes), is their Spirit Body, that Is invisible to Human Eyes.

Gods was revealed in a Body, God prepared for human men to See.

Did Gods Spirit Body, disappear? No. Gods Body continued to remain Alive beneath His prepared body that God Purposed and took upon Himself to accomplish His Will, while Remaining Equal within Himself.

Phil 2:
[5] Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
[6] Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

Remember…the “FORM” IS the Body.



Glory to God,
Taken

Angels (created celestial spirit beings) are called “men” when they take a form (body) upon themselves that “look” like a “human” earthly creature “that IS a man”.

God also Spirit, can also take upon Himself, a form (body) that “looks” like a “human” earthly creature “that IS a man”.

God Does NOT change. He is always Spirit. When Gods Spirit took upon Himself a (Form / Body) and said call Him JESUS, the Son of God….that is Gods Prerogative to call Himself whatever He chooses….
just as human men, have the power that they can look on the outside, depicting what they are Not, call themselves whatever they please.

Bruce Jenner, chose to dress like a female, call Him Catlin… but Yet is still a male, with no ovaries And no milk glands And narrow hips.

Living human bodies with a living soul In them, are Persons.

Angels (Spirits), God (Spirit), do not become Humans….and Human Persons, do not become Angels…or God….

Humans can Become “Like” God….and “be made (by, through, of) Gods Power, to HAVE an everlasting Spirit, that will never die.

It is part of the Gift God offered to manKind, who willingly choose to accept His Gift (according to Gods “terms”…ie, Order/ Way).

Glory to God,
Taken

I still don't get your point.

 

[brightfame52]

Repeating something doesn't make it true. But let me say that creative people can make a couple of verses say whatever they want to hear.

Doesnt make it not true

 

[Taken]

Jesus met the woman at the well. During that conversation, he told her that God is a Spirit. Try to hear his words as she would hear them. From her perspective, Jesus is a man, not a spirit.

Her perspective is what she SAW.
What she SAW was what God intended humans to SEE… a being in the Likeness as a Man…since God “prepared” Jesus a Body in the likeness AS a man, For WHEN He would come into “this World”…Earth.

I still don't get your point.

God is NOT a human man.
God is Not a person.
God is Spirit, He cannot Change.
Gods Word is God.
Gods Word is called by the Name JESUS.
God “prepared” a body for Jesus.
God is called by multiple names, multiple titles, multiple descriptions…Yet He Remains the One Same Almighty “Spirit” God.

Calling any part of God, a human man, squarely puts God in being “Created”, not the “Creator”.

God, IS a Spirit, Has a soul, Has a body.
God Is the Creator AND Maker.

Man, IS a body, Has a soul, Has a spirit.
Man Is the Created And Made.

God can Appear “AS a man” but never “IS” a man.

Men can call themselves a “god” but is never God.

Ancient men were introduced to God, and they who believed without SEEING, became Gods “People”…called…Hebrews, then ISRAEL, then established 12 Tribes of ISRAEL, then generationally descending, began following ways and gods, of All others not called ISRAEL, being called Gentiles.

Anciently…God used Faith men, Heads of clans, Tribes to relay Gods Word to the Clans, Tribes. Centuries passed… the generational Decline…the 12 Tribes virtually became unrecognizable…all of ISRAEL, knowing their bloodline descent …historically and modernly, all call themselves “Jews”, whereas Anciently, A JEW was exclusively of the Tribe of JUDAH.

So a conundrum… Gods people, ISRAEL, following Gentile Ways, scattered about, descendants losing the specific historical blood-line.

Gods “remedy”?
Purposed in “Himself”, to Appear on Earth, in the Likeness AS a man….TO WHAT?

Seek out all men calling themselves Jews ( having a connection to being ISRAEL.

And…He Chose 12 Men, to aid Him (and later after He returned to Heaven, to continue their Work/Service….in “Seeking” out men calling themselves JEWS…and Teach them the Good News of….What?

A New Testament….a NEW Gospel…a New means to Receive Forgiveness and Salvation of their soul and quickening of their spirit…

Why? Well um… Forgiveness of their SINS (against God, Against their Mosaic Law)….was ONLY Available, once a year, in The Temple, in JERUSALEM, and ONLY by offering a “particular animal”, that had been, raised up by the individual in a “precise” fashion.

That in-itself became corrupted…and the Temple destroyed…

The Good News was eagerly an interest to Gentiles…and Some JEWS continue in their “old ways”, some reject all, some embrace the “New Testament”,,,of Jesus’ prepared body and blood, being offered for their option to accept.

Historically Gentiles interested in this Jewish God and this New Testament, were listening, learning, reading and orally teaching other masses of illiterate Gentiles.

See the MISSING component ???
Oral Teaching and hearing is a “good” beginning…Yet FOR CENTURIES and CENTURIES…mass of Gentiles, could neither Read nor write…
So…HOW do the VERIFY what they are Being Orally Taught?
They Don’t.

A group of Gentile men, with reading, writing skills, following along with Jesus’ Chosen (Disciples)…Decided a Name For “Their Church”…the Catholic Church…and became the primary Oral Teachers To masses, of generational illiterate Gentiles.

I find the historical generational Elected “Head” of their Catholic Church, and memos for protocol, on down to their branch Churches, Clerics, Priests (whom are all called “father”)…
UnBiblical Teachings….having been taught, modified, during a new “elected head’s” term of service in their organization…. To this Day… including, but not limited, to the idea the Jesus “WAS / IS a human being. (Rather than the Truth that He “Appeared” “AS” a man.)
And the Ridiculous notion of reducing The Lord God to A “silly mathematical equation, of a 200% being”…100% human, 100% God!!!

100% and 100%… nonsense.
“AS” does NOT mean “IS”.


John 1:
[1] In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Jack]

Matthew 28:19 doesn't say anything about the idea that God is a single being in three persons.

Sure it does!

Gen 1:26 God said, "Let US make man in OUR image according to OUR likeness"!

God is the Creator, nobody else.

Col 1 By Jesus all things were created!

 

[Jack]

Jack,
The underlying assumption in the debate is whether or not Jesus and God share a numerical identity. To answer that question, we look at passages like Colossians 1:15, and Hebrews 1:3, where we learn that Jesus has representational, not numerical, identity with God.

In his gospel, John the Apostle explains that Jesus is the exegesis of God, meaning that we understand the true nature of the transcendent creator through a human man—Jesus.

Why don't you quote the Scriptures? It's not so hard to do, unless you're hiding something.

 

[Taken]

Repeating something doesn't make it true. But let me say that creative people can make a couple of verses say whatever they want to hear.

All Scripture IS True.
However ALL Scripture Does Not Apply TO All Individuals.

Each Individual, believes, rejects, believes And Confesses belief in their OWN individual timeframe, which determines, which Scriptures thereafter, do and do not Apply to them.

Some people Call that “cherry-picking” attempting to imply a negative connotation …

Heck ya, I cherry pick and Apply to me that which Applies to a Forgiven, Saved, Born Again individual…and do not Apply to me the Scriptures regarding those who Stand Against The Lord God Almighty.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Ritajanice]

Jesus met the woman at the well. During that conversation, he told her that God is a Spirit. Try to hear his words as she would hear them. From her perspective, Jesus is a man, not a spirit.

Jesus was Born like any human wasn’t he?

Humans aren’t born by the seed of God though are they?

Jesus was Born from God’s seed/ mouth...that definitely imo makes him divine?

When we become Born Again, we are the partaker Of the divine nature...how can we not be, if our spirit has been Born Again of imperishable/ incorruptible seed?....that’s a Living Spirit Birth, one will never forget...

The Living seed of God that we are Born Again of, penetrates our heart/ spirit and there the Living Spirit Of God has taken up residence, we grow in the nature of Christ as our spirit is Alive in the Spirit.

We go from being in the world to suddenly being Born Again, in a completely different realm, we’re in Gods Spiritual realm which is on the earth today...that’s how it was for me 33 years ago...we are being conformed supernaturally into Jesus image, from within our spirit by the power of the Living Spirit who indwells our spirit....we grow in spiritual maturity...the world is a boring ,superficial place....

Our Life is in Christ...Praise God for that Honour and Privilege.

Edit to add..we also aren’t saved, not until our spirit is Born Again/ regenerated/ Born Of The Spirit, that is a supernatural act that only the Spirit can perform...man/ women can’t birth their spirit into Christ.
That is a Living Spiritual rebirth, which for me, blew my mind, 33 years ago.

 

[Jack]

Jesus is God, Hell Fire is everlasting and OSAS is only a wish.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Doesnt make it not true

I agree. While it is true that your perspective on a passage being self-explanatory is valid, your interpretation of John 1:1 is flawed because it focuses only on one or two verses. A single verse cannot stand alone as self-explanatory. The best way to understand the true meaning of a verse is to consider the entire paragraph and, if necessary, the whole chapter.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Sure it does!

Be specific. Where does Matthew 28 say that God exists as three persons?

Gen 1:26 God said, "Let US make man in OUR image according to OUR likeness"!

Genesis 1:5
God called the light day, and the darkness He called night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day.

Consider that the Bible always uses the singular pronoun when referring to God.

God is the Creator, nobody else.

Col 1 By Jesus all things were created!

The translation of that passage should read "In him all things were created . . ." or "In view of him all things were created . . ."

 

[CadyandZoe]

Why don't you quote the Scriptures? It's not so hard to do, unless you're hiding something.

The answer is clear: discussions about Jesus's deity and God's nature are not solely Biblical issues; they are also philosophical in nature. Those who lived in 325 AD attempted to interpret the Biblical text through the lens of the philosophical assumptions that were prevalent at the time, including the Greek Dichotomy and Platonic thought.

We can reference scriptures endlessly, but unless we share a common worldview, we won't reach the same interpretation. Many Christians tend to accept these concepts uncritically to maintain orthodoxy, often without realizing the philosophical assumptions that underlie them. Some of us have chosen to reject these Greek philosophical assumptions in order to better understand what the Apostles and Jesus originally taught. Conversations like this help us sort through these issues.

 

[CadyandZoe]

All Scripture IS True.
However ALL Scripture Does Not Apply TO All Individuals.

Each Individual, believes, rejects, believes And Confesses belief in their OWN individual timeframe, which determines, which Scriptures thereafter, do and do not Apply to them.

Some people Call that “cherry-picking” attempting to imply a negative connotation …

Heck ya, I cherry pick and Apply to me that which Applies to a Forgiven, Saved, Born Again individual…and do not Apply to me the Scriptures regarding those who Stand Against The Lord God Almighty.

Glory to God,
Taken

Personally, I am deeply interested in what my Lord actually said and I want to obey him.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Jesus was Born like any human wasn’t he?

Apart from the virgin birth, he was born like any other man.

Humans aren’t born by the seed of God though are they?

Jesus was Born from God’s seed/ mouth...that definitely imo makes him divine?

I don't know what you mean by "the seed of God." I don't know what the Holy Spirit supplied to Mary, whether it was sperm or a zygote.

We go from being in the world to suddenly being Born Again, in a completely different realm, we’re in Gods Spiritual realm which is on the earth today...that’s how it was for me 33 years ago...we are being conformed supernaturally into Jesus image, from within our spirit by the power of the Living Spirit who indwells our spirit....we grow in spiritual maturity...the world is a boring ,superficial place....

Amen Sister.

 

[Jack]

The answer is clear: discussions about Jesus's deity and God's nature are not solely Biblical issues; they are also philosophical in nature. Those who lived in 325 AD attempted to interpret the Biblical text through the lens of the philosophical assumptions that were prevalent at the time, including the Greek Dichotomy and Platonic thought.

We can reference scriptures endlessly, but unless we share a common worldview, we won't reach the same interpretation. Many Christians tend to accept these concepts uncritically to maintain orthodoxy, often without realizing the philosophical assumptions that underlie them. Some of us have chosen to reject these Greek philosophical assumptions in order to better understand what the Apostles and Jesus originally taught. Conversations like this help us sort through these issues.

Christians stick with the Bible! It tells us all we need to know about God!

 

[Ritajanice]

I don't know what you mean by "the seed of God."

Well, we are Born Again of imperishable seed are we not, that makes the seed that we are Born Again of, Alive in Spirit, our spirit becomes Alive once it’s been Born Again, the Living seed of faith has been planted into our hearts, where it has taken root, that is when we start to spiritually grow...

I don't know what the Holy Spirit supplied to Mary, whether it was sperm or a zygote.

That is the mystery isn’t it, Mary came with child,what I’m trying to say is, Mary didn’t come by child, by the sperm of Joseph..this was no ordinary birth, it came about by divine intervention...that to me makes Jesus 100% divine..not saying he was 100% God....His Father was fully divine.

I can also see why some think that God came in the flesh....as Jesus was an exact copy of his Father....some say God humbled himself and became human...all sorts of beliefs about who Jesus was...even though I can’t see that Jesus is fully God, I still like to stay open minded .

Matthew 1:18-25​

​

King James Version​

​

​

18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.
19 Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a public example, was minded to put her away privily.
20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.
22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,
23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
24 Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife:
25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name Jesus.

 

[Jack]

1 Timothy 3:16 God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.

Clearly Jesus is God!

Col 1 By Jesus all things were created!

 

[Behold]

So what does the divinity of Jesus really mean, anyway?

Understanding the Divinity of Jesus is to come to a more full and more complete understanding of Him.

Some would rather remain ignorant of this Truth regarding Jesus = who Himself said that He is "I AM".. which is God's name for Himself, as He gave it to Moses from the burning bush.

Trinity haters would remain willfully ignorant of the divinity of the "Word of God" who is "God manifested in the Flesh".

On the other hand you have those who are deceived also, who teach that you MUST believe in the Deity of Christ to be a Christian, and that is not true.