Scriptures that show that Christs death saved a person while in unbelief !

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Ritajanice

Born-Again
Mar 9, 2023
12,992
7,415
113
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
Sickness exists in a fallen world, because God allowed Adam a choice.


So, its by """""ONE MANS's SIN< that sin entered this world""""", and the fruit of that sin, is many things, including murder, rape, hate, and sickness, mental illness, poverty, WAR....

That is not God allowing it....that is God choosing to give Adam dominion over this world that was transferred to Satan, once Adam disobeyed God.
God allows sickness and sin in this world, it entered the world the day Adam sinned.
So...What you see as "EVIL"... or all the wrong in the world like HAMAS killing Jewish Babies by burning them in Ovens...last Oct 7, 2023...... all of this HORROR...that is in this world is based on Adam's Free Will Choice.........and the end result of this, is all the evil that has befallen this world and all of us.
God has allowed it all to happen....
A.) The FALL of it all and all the evil in this world is based on, = ADAM's rebellion, and 2nd Adam is coming to restore and make right, what has been so wrong, since 1st Adam rebelled which allowed Satan to become the "god of this world".. .and He is the author of all the WRONG........all of it.

Sin entered the world by Adam,,,the second Adam is our saviour he came so that our spirit can be reconciled back to God...Spirit gives birth to spirit.
God allowed Adam to make a wrong choice, just like he allows us the same free will...
Depends what you mean by freewill....we aren’t free to birth our own spirit into the Spirit of God..only the Living Spirit can perform that supernatural act...you don’t get to do that.
..... and the result of this, is everything that is wrong with this world and in this world.
That makes no sense.
Jesus is coming back to avenge and make right what has been wrong since Adam rebelled which turned this world into a black circus of chaos and death and destruction.
Jesus doesn’t know the time of his return....only God knows when he will return.
 

Behold

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2020
20,260
8,109
113
Netanya or Pensacola
Faith
Christian
Country
Israel
How you got that out of my posts is unbelievable...

I show you what is unbelievable.

You posted this.. and you actually believe it.

@Ritajanice stated........""""".God allowed him to get into my head..""""

So, i'll tell you for the 5th time.
God didnt allow that at all, and never will.

And if you want to talk about "being persecuted" and "carrying your Cross" then do it with some understanding that this has nothing to do with some idea that Calvinism taught you, about "God letting the Devil into your head".
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nancy

Behold

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2020
20,260
8,109
113
Netanya or Pensacola
Faith
Christian
Country
Israel
God allows sickness and sin in this world, it entered the world the day Adam sinned.

Sickness is in the world and its caused by Adam giving dominion of the world to Satan.

Satan is the Evil in this world , the original, and his evil was transferred to us all.

So, God made a choice...to allow Free Will beings to make choices......and that resulted in consequences.. that include sickness and death.

Now had God made Adam a mindless puppet, then Adam could not have chosen to cause the devil to become the god of this world and cause all that you see that is wrong, evil, and cruel.

So, God isn't responsible for the consequences that came to this earth because of Adam's free will.

Calvinism tries to twist Adam's choice, into....>>"God is allowing"....."Evil".

God only allowed Free Will, and Adam used it in a way that allowed the fall of us all and for Satan to become the "god of this world".

we aren’t free to birth our own spirit into the Spirit of God..

WE are responsible for giving our faith in Christ to God.

God is responsible for accepting our faith, according to His word, and then giving us the new birth as "born again".
 

Ritajanice

Born-Again
Mar 9, 2023
12,992
7,415
113
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
I show you what is unbelievable.

You posted this.. and you actually believe it.

@Ritajanice stated........""""".God allowed him to get into my head..""""
As a new babe, God allowed the enemy to attack my mind...
So, i'll tell you for the 5th time.
God didnt allow that at all, and never will.
You can’t tell me anything...that is you now trying to control and being very prideful, because you think you know better than anyone else.

Therefore I don’t agree with a word that “ you” are saying as it’s not God truth...it’s your truth..
And if you want to talk about "being persecuted" and "carrying your Cross" then do it with some understanding that this has nothing to do with some idea that Calvinism taught you
Here you go again, with your controlling ,prideful , condescending posts....which I 100 % disagree with....
, about "God letting the Devil into your head".
God allowed the enemy to attack my mind....as his word says...
 

Behold

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2020
20,260
8,109
113
Netanya or Pensacola
Faith
Christian
Country
Israel
God allows his children to go through trials, tribulations and suffering..the word says so..look it up.

That is true........but that is not the same as God allowing Satan into your mind.

Look it up.

We suffer for Christ’s sake...

Go outside and tell a Palestinian that Jesus is coming soon.
You'll find out that persecution is not "God allowing Satan into my mind".

Or you can come to Israel and start telling People about Jesus, and you'll get a more full understanding of what "persecution" really means. @Ritajanice
 

brightfame52

Well-Known Member
Oct 16, 2020
4,999
488
83
67
Atlanta
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Let me show you again..

1.) You, me, everyone.......are of the "adamic nature", and that simply means that we are "born in sin", "conceived in sin".

Sin, is the Devil's nature..... and we all have this as our "flesh".. as we are "adamic"........fallen........ separated from God.

So, in this STATE, we are as Jesus said......>"You are of YOUR FATHER.. the DEVIL, and the LUSTS OF YOUR FATHER, you will do".

And that is why a person LOVES TO SIN......., as that is your NATURE.......from the womb.


2.) Being born again... means that God has become our NEW Father, and we are no longer : "of your Father the DeviL".

And now being born of God, we are newly become a CHILD of God, by Spiritual Birth.....and noone is, until this happens.

This is why Jesus told this world........."YOU MUST.. be born again">.
Everyone has a adamic nature by nature, thats why everyone is a sinner, but some sinners with adam nature are children of the devil, and some are children of God. The children of God are the ones Jesus came to redeem, and did redeem, but the children of the devil are going to hell with their father the devil Matt 23:23

Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
 

Behold

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2020
20,260
8,109
113
Netanya or Pensacola
Faith
Christian
Country
Israel
Everyone has a adamic nature by nature,

And that is true, and until a person is born again, that is the only nature they will ever have.

But once they are born again, as a child of God, then they receive the "divine nature"........and have become a "new creation in Christ".

So, there are the children of God who are heaven bound, and then there are the rest who are not, and will go to hell, and thousands did today.

Find them here......and still on the earth.

John 3:36

Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

The only way to escape eternal damnation, is to : "call on the name of Jesus, and you shall be saved"

"all who call on the name of Jesus shall be saved"

"whosoever believes"... = John 3:16

"you must be born again".. Jesus said.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nancy

Ritajanice

Born-Again
Mar 9, 2023
12,992
7,415
113
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
Sickness is in the world and its caused by Adam giving dominion of the world to Satan.
Sickness entered the world by one man.
Satan is the Evil in this world , the original, and his evil was transferred to us all.

So, God made a choice...to allow Free Will beings to make choices......and that resulted in consequences.. that include sickness and death.
Sickness and death, God allows, as we can all see, he could put a stop to it if he chose to...he hasn’t.
Now had God made Adam a mindless puppet, then Adam could not have chosen to cause the devil to become the god of this world and cause all that you see that is wrong, evil, and cruel.

So, God isn't responsible for the consequences that came to this earth because of Adam's free will.
And how do you know that Adam understood freewill...?...you don’t.
Calvinism tries to twist Adam's choice, into....>>"God is allowing"....."Evil".
God allowed Adam to eat from the tree, did Adam know what sin or choice was or what the consequences would be...the Bible doesn’t give us that information.
God only allowed Free Will, and Adam used it in a way that allowed the fall of us all and for Satan to become the "god of this world".
Whose to say that Adam understood free will...we have no information on that.
WE are responsible for giving our faith in Christ to God.
No we aren’t responsible for giving our faith in Christ to God...we have no faith in God, unless he decides to gift us supernatural faith..faith that is Alive band Active in our spirit.
God is responsible for accepting our faith, according to His word, and then giving us the new birth as "born again".
That is not how God says we are Born Again...those are your own words, that’s why they are confusing, because they came from your mouth and not Gods mouth.
 

Behold

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2020
20,260
8,109
113
Netanya or Pensacola
Faith
Christian
Country
Israel
God allows sickness and sin in this world, it entered the world the day Adam sinned.

Death, all forms, entered because Adam sinned.
Adam sinned because he was given Free will to make choices and he made a bad one, and this has caused the devil to become the "god of this world" and he used and uses this power to harm and harm and will continue, until Jesus ends it.

God has allowed it all to happen....

God allowed Adam to make a choice..

The choice has created all that happens.. that we define as Evil.

The Good that exists in this World is all of God and God only.


.we aren’t free to birth our own spirit into the Spirit of God..

Unless we are God, we can't birth our own spirit.

What we do, is give our faith in Christ to God, and God accepts our faith, and then He causes us to be born again Spiritually.
 

Ritajanice

Born-Again
Mar 9, 2023
12,992
7,415
113
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
Never.

And God never will.
God allowed the enemy to attack my mind.
But spiritual darkness will come to every person, born again or not, and try to destroy you.
A true Born Again can never have their faith destroyed.
Its not that i can't tell, you, its that you can't listen. @Ritajanice
I only listen to the Spirit...I don’t hear him speaking to me out of your mouth....you are an accuser Of the brethren....
 

Ritajanice

Born-Again
Mar 9, 2023
12,992
7,415
113
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
Death, all forms, entered because Adam sinned.
Adam sinned because he was given Free will to make choices and he made a bad one, and this has caused the devil to become the "god of this world" and he used and uses this power to harm and harm and will continue, until Jesus ends it.
Did Adam understand freewill..the Bible doesn’t say...plus where in the Bible does it say that Adam “ had free will, “ show me the verse?
God allowed Adam to make a choice..
Where in the Bible does it say, Adam I give you a choice?
The choice has created all that happens.. that we define as Evil.
According to you.
The Good that exists in this World is all of God and God only.
Is it...show me the bible verse that says exactly that?
Unless we are God, we can't birth our own spirit.
The Spirit does the supernatural birth..you can’t choose for that to happen.
What we do, is give our faith in Christ to God, and God accepts our faith, and then He causes us to be born again Spiritually.

There is nowhere in Gods word that says....He causes us to be Born Again spiritually..once again those are
..those are your words.coming out of your own mouth...those are not words coming out of the mouth of God.
 

Behold

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2020
20,260
8,109
113
Netanya or Pensacola
Faith
Christian
Country
Israel
Sickness entered the world by one man.

God said that both the man and the woman are "Adam"
It was Adam who gave Eve her name, not God.

So, we see that the WOMAN was the one tempted.

That's interesting , because its by one "man's sin" .... that all the evil came., including sin.

The Bible is very interesting..

Sickness and death, God allows, as we can all see, he could put a stop to it if he chose to...he hasn’t.

God doesn't allow it.
What he allowed is what caused it, and what caused it, keeps causing it.

So, in the case of a Christian, God gives us the right to Pray and be healed.
God gives us power over Satan, so that He can't OWN YOUR MIND, unless you believe His lies.....including Calvinism.

Calvin teaches that you get sick to help you.......and that is why millions of SICK Calvinists die per year, as they dont understand he is killing them with that demonic theology.


And how do you know that Adam understood freewill...?...

Its because God has free will and so does Jesus. And we know that we are made in the "image of "God" in "God's Likeness",, and Jesus as a Human on earth was the same as we are, and He had free will.
So, that is how we know we have free will.

No we aren’t responsible for giving our faith in Christ to God. Gods mouth.

Your Calvinism is on fire again., i see.

Listen, every person in Hell, didnt give God their faith in Christ., and that is why they are there..

If you teach that God would not let them believe then you are teaching the Devil's lie, and Satanic Calvinism would be happy if you will do that for them..... as Brightframe does.... @Ritajanice

Now, you were going to stop responding to me about 10 posts back you said..., and you continued.. so, that is always you.

But im going to stop now,..for now.. on this Thread, unless its Brightframe....... as you have given me many opportunities to teach, and some will find all that ive posted and that is Good.
That is what is necessary on such a demonic Thread (Topic) as this one .

- Take care.
 

Ritajanice

Born-Again
Mar 9, 2023
12,992
7,415
113
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
God said that both the man and the woman are "Adam"
That’s interesting where did he say that, I thought he said that they were one, I would say that would mean as in, one in spirit and in harmony with the other....Eve came from one of Adams ribs....that doesn’t make her fully Adam now ,does it?

This is what happens when you post your words to scripture, they make no sense....here is what God says...the woman was taken from Adam ,can you see that, ? God didn’t say that she was Adam now did he.

Genesis 2:22-24New Living Translation (NLT) Then the LORD God made a woman from the rib, and he brought her to the man. “At last!” the man exclaimed. “This one is bone from my bone, and flesh from my flesh! She will be called 'woman,' because she was taken from 'man.

She was taken from man, not that she was man....if she was man, she would of had a penis wouldn’t she?

Instead she had a vagina, did she not?...if she didn’t, then how could she have produced children?

Just like Jesus came from the seed of God, that doesn’t make Jesus fully God.

Then along came the serpent and deceived Eve...how would he have convinced her had she should eat from the tree...?

He said in 2 Corinthians 11:3, “I am afraid that as the serpent deceived Eve by his cunning, your thoughts will be led astray from a sincere and pure devotion to Christ.” Here, Satan's work in our minds is called leading us astray, corrupting our thoughts. We don't know how Satan does it, but there it is; he does it.

How can our faith in God grow , if we aren’t tested by the enemy in what we think and believe, what does God say about the renewing of our minds?...

Why must our minds be renewed....because we were told loads of lies from the enemy growing up as a non believer....now that we are Born Again our minds grow and develop...to think and believe God......you actually think that you can think and believe all that God says in an instant...

I think not...remember we were children of the world before we became Born Again....we are being conformed into Jesus image....do you understand what that means?

Whose fruit should we bear as Born Again, who is the fruit bearer in our new Born Again hearts?
It was Adam who gave Eve her name, not God.
Who said he didn’t?
So, we see that the WOMAN was the one tempted.

That's interesting , because its by one "man's sin" .... that all the evil came., including sin.

The Bible is very interesting..
Yes it’s very interesting and I’m still waiting for you to answer my questions that I asked.
God doesn't allow it.
What he allowed is what caused it, and what caused it, keeps causing it.
God allows everything...
So, in the case of a Christian, God gives us the right to Pray and be healed.
God gives us power over Satan, so that He can't OWN YOUR MIND, unless you believe His lies.....including Calvinism.
Now you have contradicted yourself, you are now saying if we believe his lies....I thought you said he can’t enter our minds? Now you are saying he can?
Calvin teaches that you get sick to help you....
What on earth does this even mean?
...and that is why millions of SICK Calvinists dies per year, as they dont understand he is killing them with that demonic theology.
Wow!...whose demonic theology?
And how do you know that Adam understood freewill...?...
That is the question I asked of you?..Behold are you ok, because you don’t sound it.
Its because God has free will and so does Jesus.
Jesus have freewill..where is that in scripture...? I believe it, if it’s scriptural.Jesus said , not my will your will....where did he say that his will was free?..or where does the Bible say that Jesus had his own free will?....he said once again not my will your will....you can’t just assume that Jesus will was free...it wasn’t.
And we know that we are made in the "image of "God" in "God's Likeness",, and Jesus as a Human on earth was the same as we are, and He had free will.
Please point me to that scripture, I’m intrigued....I thought Jesus did his Father’s will?
So, that is how we know we have free will.
According to you and your doctrine.
Your Calvinism is on fire again., i see.
Is it, then show me?..my Calvinism is on fire according to you....and your belief, that doesn’t make me a Calvinist...I’m Born Again ,which I know by Gods Living Witness..the Alive and Active Holy Spirit...
Listen, every person in Hell, didnt give God their faith in Christ., and that is why they are there..
Scripture please that says..all those in Hell are there because they never gave God their faith in Christ?
If you teach that God would not let them believe then you are teaching the Devil's lie,
Who said I’m teaching that?
and Satanic Calvinism would be happy if you will do that for them..... as Brightframe does.... @Ritajanice
What Brightfame posts is none of my business.
Now, you were going to stop responding to me about 10 posts back you said..., and you continued.. so, that is always you.
The thing is..you have been making accusations and telling me what to believe, so I decided to carry on and put you right.
But im going to stop now,..for now..
that’s good to hear...
on this Thread, unless its Brightframe....... as you have given me many opportunities to teach, and some will find all that ive posted and that is Good.
I wish I could find what you taught was good...I found it confusing to be honest..most of what you say wasn’t biblical.
That is what is necessary on such a demonic Thread (Topic) as this one .
Demonic...wow...another accusation.
- Take care.
I pray that you are ok, because you don’t sound like you are.

1 Peter 4:12-13 ESV / 19 helpful votes​

Beloved, do not be surprised at the fiery trial when it comes upon you to test you, as though something strange were happening


Ecclesiastes 3:11He orders all things and upholds their purpose. We may not always understand why God allows for things to happen in our lives that cause pain, fear, and worry. However, we can trust that He has a beautiful purpose for it
 
Last edited:

brightfame52

Well-Known Member
Oct 16, 2020
4,999
488
83
67
Atlanta
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
And that is true, and until a person is born again, that is the only nature they will ever have.

But once they are born again, as a child of God, then they receive the "divine nature"........and have become a "new creation in Christ".

So, there are the children of God who are heaven bound, and then there are the rest who are not, and will go to hell, and thousands did today.

Find them here......and still on the earth.

John 3:36



The only way to escape eternal damnation, is to : "call on the name of Jesus, and you shall be saved"

"all who call on the name of Jesus shall be saved"

"whosoever believes"... = John 3:16

"you must be born again".. Jesus said.
Sorry but the children of the devil wont and cannot escape damnation, , they have no kinsman redeemer, Jesus is the Kinsman redeemer for His brethren, the children of God. Jesus never knew the children of the devil like that Matt 7:23

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
 

Aunty Jane

Well-Known Member
Sep 16, 2021
6,997
3,832
113
Sydney
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
2:32 ...until a person is born again, that is the only nature they will ever have.
That is not true. Our sinful human nature is not removed by going to heaven. That is the destiny of God’s “chosen ones”.....the ones he has selected to rule with his son in heaven. They are a limited number by comparison to the unlimited number over whom they will have God’s authority and that of his appointed King Christ Jesus.

These are identified in Rev 14:1-5....

“Then I looked, and behold, on Mount Zion stood the Lamb, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads. And I heard a voice from heaven like the roar of many waters and like the sound of loud thunder. The voice I heard was like the sound of harpists playing on their harps, and they were singing a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and before the elders. No one could learn that song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth. It is these who have not defiled themselves with women, for they are virgins. It is these who follow the Lamb wherever he goes. These have been redeemed from mankind as firstfruits for God and the Lamb, and in their mouth no lie was found, for they are blameless.” (ESV)

“Firstfruits” are the early crop and the choicest of the harvest, but a secondary crop will follow.
To these agricultural people “firstfruits” meant exactly what Rev 20:6 says....

Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years.”

The “first resurrection”...is again a “first”....meaning that another resurrection will follow. (John 5:28-29)
These are details that most of Christendom leaves out.....they assume that all are going to heaven and must be “born again”....but that is not true. The ones who come “second” are by no means insignificant because they make up the whole of redeemed mankind who will be ruled and guided by these “firstfruits”...who are spiritual “virgins”, as they have not allowed their worship to be violated by satanic lies.....like the idea of immortal souls suffering eternal damnation in a fiery hell.....or the thought of serving multiple gods in one entity.
What a horrible misrepresentation of God’s character that is and a violation of his justice...!
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: TheHC

Aunty Jane

Well-Known Member
Sep 16, 2021
6,997
3,832
113
Sydney
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
But once they are born again, as a child of God, then they receive the "divine nature"........and have become a "new creation in Christ".
Not whilst they are still in mortal sinful flesh on earth....they will not be a “new creation” until their death in the flesh, and a resurrection “in the spirit”.....only at their resurrection are they “born again” because humans of flesh and blood cannot enter the heavenly Kingdom. (1 Cor 15:50)

Eph 1:13-14 confirms that the saints receive a “guarantee” or “token” of their inheritance whilst they are still in the flesh.

“In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.”

“Possession” of their inheritance is not “acquired” while they are still on earth.

Rev 7:4 gives us the completed number of the “chosen ones” (saints) and then goes on to identify another group, “which no man could number” who also gain salvation from God and the Lamb....

“After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude that no one could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands, and crying out with a loud voice, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!”....

Then one of the elders addressed me, saying, “Who are these, clothed in white robes, and from where have they come?” I said to him, “Sir, you know.” And he said to me, “These are the ones coming out of the great tribulation. They have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.”
(ESV)

Those who believe that God created this earth so lovingly as a mere training ground for heaven are in for a rude shock. That was never in God’s purpose. The earth was designed to be our permanent home and we were given the opportunity to live forever right here.....”heaven or hell” were never in the original story....

Disobedience paved the way for satan to be the god of this world, just as he planned. But God did not snuff out the rebels as he could easily have done.....NO!....he chose to allow us humans to experience consequences, so that no child of God (either human or angelic) would ever have grounds to disobey him again.
So, there are the children of God who are heaven bound, and then there are the rest who are not, and will go to hell, and thousands did today.
Since “hell” in Hebrew is “Sheol” then that is true.....as you also know, “Sheol” is “the grave”.....not some other realm where God either rewards or tortures souls forever....that is a satanic lie and one you seem to relish for some reason.
Find them here......and still on the earth.

John 3:36
John 3:34-36...
“The Father loves the Son and has given all things into his hand. For he whom God has sent utters the words of God, for he gives the Spirit without measure. Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.” (ESV)

It’s all about obedience, as it was in the beginning.....we must believe what the son teaches us about his God and Father. Obedience to all that Jesus taught, as contrasted to what Christendom teaches about the Father is paramount to our understanding of the relationship of Father and son.

As Jesus said in John 17:3....
“And this is eternal life, that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.”
If we do not “KNOW” “the only true God” AND “the one whom he sent” we will not gain eternal life.

God’s wrath ‘remaining’ on disobedient ones does not involve “eternal conscious torment” but involve a death from which no return to life is possible. Isn’t that enough of a punishment? It is for God, but apparently not those who relish the thought of what ECT means about God’s character.
 
  • Love
Reactions: TheHC

Aunty Jane

Well-Known Member
Sep 16, 2021
6,997
3,832
113
Sydney
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
The only way to escape eternal damnation, is to : "call on the name of Jesus, and you shall be saved"

"all who call on the name of Jesus shall be saved"
No sorry, you have that all wrong.....

Rom 10:10-13....
“For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. For the Scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him. For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” (ESV)

You will notice that the last words there in Paul’s statement is in inverted commas, meaning that he is quoting OT Scripture.....Joel 2:32 to be exact, which is speaking about the name of Yahweh, not Jesus.

The Jews, in losing the pronunciation of God’s name, were responsible for the trinity and a number of other false ideas about “the son of God.”
Calling on the name of the wrong “god” leads to death, because it shows that a person doesn’t not “know” “the only true God” at all...or “the one he sent”.
"whosoever believes"... = John 3:16
John 3:16...a very well known scripture but totally misread by the majority....

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.”

What does the last part of that verse say? “whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.”
What does it mean to “perish”? Look it up.

Also James 2:18-20...
“But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder! Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless?” (ESV)

“Believing” is not what leads to eternal life, if what you believe is not true.....the demons “believe”.....but not in the right way. Our “works” must back up our faith. Not just talking the talk...

"you must be born again".. Jesus said.
Most people who claim to be “born again” have no idea what it actually means.....God’s spirit works within the “saints” to grant them deep spiritual understanding...so, since God’s spirit is a uniting force, all who are truly “born again” will all agree with one truth (1 Cor 1:10)...but we know that this is not the case.....the devil is at work again, giving those who are not well educated in the Bible (even if they are thoroughly indoctrinated with theology) a false impression or experience. Deception is his trademark. Do the deceived actually believe that they are?

Jesus will tell us all soon enough....(Matt 7:13-14; 21-23)
 
  • Love
Reactions: TheHC

Scott Downey

Well-Known Member
Dec 19, 2021
8,220
5,122
113
65
St. Thomas
Faith
Christian
Country
Virgin Islands, U.S.
This doctrine has caused many to doubt their salvation. If Adam ushered in the sin nature where as ALL are born with depravity (which I do believe), then what happened to the "all people" under Christ are offered the gift? Seems like a double standard to me.

Romans 5:14
"1 Corinthians 15:21-22
For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. / For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive."
All who are in Christ will be made live, but not all will be made alive.
There is a big difference.

In the understanding of our being foreknown and predestined, it does mean those who don't believe will believe as they are in a way in Christ already, it is just not yet realized. I always believed that all those foreknown and predestined could not perish without at some point believing in Christ in their life here on earth, God will make it good.

Here it is laid out for us

28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nancy

Scott Downey

Well-Known Member
Dec 19, 2021
8,220
5,122
113
65
St. Thomas
Faith
Christian
Country
Virgin Islands, U.S.
John 6 answers a lot of questions on being foreknown and predestined to be the children of God
God's work is that you believe in Christ, Jesus adds on and says all those the Father gives to Him will come to Him.
If God has not foreknown and predestined you, you will not believe.
You may not want to believe Christ's word, but they are faithful and true.
If He did not want you to know this, He would have never said this.
And it makes your salvation secure and certain, if you have believed, you can know you are eternally His.

29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”

30 Therefore they said to Him, “What sign will You perform then, that we may see it and believe You? What work will You do? 31 Our fathers ate the manna in the desert; as it is written, ‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat.’ ”

32 Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, Moses did not give you the bread from heaven, but My Father gives you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is He who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”

34 Then they said to Him, “Lord, give us this bread always.”

35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst. 36 But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe. 37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will [f]by no means cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”