The Doctrines of Grace

[Titus]

Was Billy Graham a Calvinist?

Not a five point calvinist.
But he sure believed in un conditional election.

From his own mouth he said there will be people in heaven from all over the world that never believed in Jesus.

 

[Hey You!]

Calvinist's believe babies are born seperated from God due to their sin nature that was inherited from Adam.

Therefore babies who die in infancy if elected go to heaven never hearing, or believing the gospel.

Also if said baby is non- elect, he's buring in hell.

I've read the WCF, and I think you're right here...

I tend to think All Infants dying in Infancy are Elect...

 

[Hey You!]

Not a five point calvinist.
But he sure believed in un conditional election.

From his own mouth he said there will be people in heaven from all over the world that never believed in Jesus.

Is this a Guilt by Association Fallacy? Universalists believe this but aren't Calvinists...

 

[Titus]

I've read the WCF, and I think you're right here...

I tend to think All Infants dying in Infancy are Elect...

Totally depraved is not Biblical.

The gospel is for the sinner.

Babies are sinless.
They all go to heaven.

Is this a Guilt by Association Fallacy? Universalists believe this but aren't Calvinists

Maybe, but you must know where your beliefs originated otherwise you might just be a calvinist and not know it.

 

[Titus]

Is this a Guilt by Association Fallacy? Universalists believe this but aren't Calvinists...

If my beliefs originate with Gnosticism and I believe my beliefs come from the new testament..

Denying I'm a gnostic doesn't mean that I'm not.
Does it?

 

[Hey You!]

Totally depraved is not Biblical.

The gospel is for the sinner.

Babies are sinless.
They all go to heaven.


Maybe, but you must know where your beliefs originated otherwise you might just be a calvinist and not know it.

Thanks for saying 'Maybe'; I'm looking for people who really think about the Issues...

 

[Hey You!]

If my beliefs originate with Gnosticism and I believe my beliefs come from the new testament..

Denying I'm a gnostic doesn't mean that I'm not.
Does it?

You're right...

But in the spirit of fairness, I let people try to originate their belief in the Bible; we all claim this. As a Baptist, I have sympathy for a Calvinist; because we believe in Original Sin too...

 

[Titus]

Thanks for saying 'Maybe'; I'm looking for people who really think about the Issues...

You found one.
I dont post on here unless I've already studied the subject under discussion.
Too many people comment on issues they have never done much meditation on.

Nice to meet you Sir.
I like discussion with people who reason with logic rather than emotion or just following the traditions in whatever religion they were brought up in.

 

[Titus]

You're right...

But in the spirit of fairness, I let people try to originate their belief in the Bible; we all claim this. As a Baptist, I have sympathy for a Calvinist; because we believe in Original Sin too...

I reject all of the TULIP.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Chapter and verse? You think I'm Protestant? Cute.

First of all – if you are a non-Catholic Christian – you ARE a Protestant.,

Secondly – Chapter and Verse was added by the Catholic Church in the Middle Ages.

So, really you're statement makes no sense,,,,but I think this is what you want:

And hence in the sixth Council held at Constantinople [Act. 18] it was decreed that it must be said that there are two wills in Christ, in the following passage: "In accordance with what the Prophets of old taught us concerning Christ, and as He taught us Himself, and the Symbol of the Holy Fathers has handed down to us, we confess two natural wills in Him and two natural operations." And this much it was necessary to say. For it is manifest that the Son of God assumed a perfect human nature, as was shown above (Article 5; III:9:1). Now the will pertains to the perfection of human nature, being one of its natural powers, even as the intellect, as was stated in I:79 and I:80. Hence we must say that the Son of God assumed a human will, together with human nature. Now by the assumption of human nature the Son of God suffered no diminution of what pertains to His Divine Nature, to which it belongs to have a will, as was said in the I:19:1. Hence it must be said that there are two wills in Christ, i.e. one human, the other Divine.


This will also be helpful:


Well, Christ is one person, therefore He must have one will.” But the way the church has thought about this—and I think correctly thought about it—is that if Jesus only had one will, then it must be the divine will, because He had a divine will before the incarnation. If He only has one will, then He doesn’t have a human will. And if He doesn’t have a human will, does He have a full human nature? I think that’s a fair question and a correct way to approach this problem. Isn’t a human will an essential element of a human nature? And if Jesus didn’t have a human will, could He really have been tempted in the fullness of His humanity? Hebrews tells us very clearly that Jesus was tempted in all ways as we are, yet without sin. And that temptation would’ve been significantly different if only the divine will of Jesus had been tempted and not the human will.

I understand why we have a kind of instinctive reaction—well, if Jesus has two wills, might they have ever been in conflict? Might the human will have willed one thing, and the divine will another? I think the church was right in analyzing that to say “no,” since each will is operated by the person, there can never be a conflict between the two wills. The two wills will always be in harmony. And yet each of the natures would be incomplete if each nature didn’t have its own full and complete divine will and human will. I really do think it’s helpful to realize that Jesus experienced a full and complete humanity. That’s why Dyothelitism is the orthodox position that all of those hearing us should embrace enthusiastically.

NONE of this is explicit SCRIPTURAL evidence that Jesus has TWO wills.
Nice try, though . . .

You're a silly man Bread.
Thinking that he is a smart man.
THE BIBLE COMES FIRST in CHRISTIANITY.
Did I say there are not valuable lessons?

How do YOU pass your time?
By reading about saints or by reading the bible so you could reply to all these Protestants that attack you?

The Bible came out of the CHURCH – and NOT the other way around. The Church existed some 300 years before there was a Canon of Scripture (383AD).

It was the Church who decided which Books belonged in the Canon with the guidance of the Holy Spirit (John 16:12-15).

I know. No Catholic can reply to this question.
Wonder why?

HUH??
I’ve explained ad nauseam why we pray for one another. It is commanded of us in Scripture (James 5:16).

Who said they didn't appear?
Are you getting on in years?

I think you’re confused. I was responding to YOUR remark:
“Yes Bread...but you see Moses and Elijah DID APPEAR at the transfiguration.”

Ummmm, are YOU getting on in years?

Bread, I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.
And I don't have much time.

Hey – YOU’RE the one who brought up Padre Pio . . .

 

[Titus]

You're right...

But in the spirit of fairness, I let people try to originate their belief in the Bible; we all claim this. As a Baptist, I have sympathy for a Calvinist; because we believe in Original Sin too...

I'm currently studying the London Baptist Confession of Faith of 1689

 

[BreadOfLife]

Ohhhh.
I'm soooo bitter!
Wanna have a cappuccio with me?


View attachment 57923

Thanks for putting a smile on my face.

The woman in that picture bears a striking resemblance to my late mother-in-law. She was a sweet lady . . .

 

[Titus]

First of all – if you are a non-Catholic Christian – you ARE a Protestant

No, orthodox church doesn't agree with Roman papacy either.

 

[BreadOfLife]

You base your whole argument on fictitious creatures in heaven.
Revelation is full of symbolism.
You are taking Revelation 5:8 literal.

Fictitious??
Symbolic - but NOT fictitious.

God doesn’t deal in fairy tales . . .

Show in the passage where saints are interceding on our behalf?
Doesnt even mention real human beings in the passage.

Again??
Read closely . . .

Rev. 5:8
And when he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints (us).

You

Don’t conflate YOUR inability to refute my Scriptural evidence with any “dishonesty” on my part . . .

 

[Hey You!]

I reject all of the TULIP.

After years of Studying TULIP, I don't reject it out of hand. I remember Marriage Counciling at a Baptist Church. My wife complained that I support Total Depravity. The Counselor said Baptists believe it; so I was defended by him...

I always say that if you can't find someone to answer Objections; that doesn't mean there isn't someone out there who can...

I like to hear everyone's point; I might actually hear a good point...

 

[BreadOfLife]

I reject neither Christ or HIS church . I do , however , reject a den of harlots .
HIS CHURCH dont preach interfaith bud . However it seems many a church do that .
HIS church dont tell other religoins the anti christ lie of interfaith .
Peter would never have done what the mother of harlots and her daughters do .
Paul nor any other true sheep would even dare dream of doing such a thing.
Its NOT HIS church i reject . But you go and learn what that means . Please hurry too .

You’re right. The Catholic Church doesn’t preach this nonsense. It’s a peaceful message of the unity of people – NOT doctrine. We celebrate our common beliefs..

Even as incorrect and flawed as YOUR theology is – we share come common beliefs . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

BreadofLife is the meanest person I've come across on religious forums.
He cant seem to keep himself from insulting others.

You’re right. The Catholic Church doesn’t preach this nonsense. It’s a peaceful message of the unity of people – NOT doctrine. We celebrate our common beliefs..

Even as incorrect and flawed as your beliefs are – we share come common beliefs . . .

 

[Hey You!]

I'm currently studying the London Baptist Confession of Faith of 1689

As someone who likes good points, I like c3 p1 of the 2nd LBCF. It says the Liberty of the Will is established...

 

[BreadOfLife]

friend he is not the meanest . though he is far from the most honest or friendly person too .
You want to see cruel
walk into these inclusive WHORE following churches
bring a bible and read said bible . I have seen grown men shoved , punched at , swung and kicked at
by the very ones who holler TEN TRILLION times a day , WHEN DEFENDING SIN , GOD is love , be tolerant
be inclusive . DONT SEEM very tolerant , loving , Towards men with bibles .
And the so called love rainbow , you aint seen squat to as how these will treat one .
Not so friendly if you dont bow and kneel before their rainbow . The churches have PROBLEMS and BIG TIME TOO .

It’s not “tolerant” or “loving” to allow disrespectful antagonists to interrupt a mass or service. I’ve seen these idiots walk into a Catholic mass and disrupt – and I have shown them the door. If YOU think that the Lord smiles on this kind of rude behavior – you don’t know Him.

That kind of “tolerance" is the virtue of the man without convictions . . .

 

[Titus]

Fictitious??
Symbolic - but NOT fictitious.

God doesn’t deal in fairy tales . . .

Again??
Read closely . . .

Rev. 5:8
And when he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints (us).

Don’t conflate YOUR inability to refute my Scriptural evidence with any “dishonesty” on my part . . .

God doesn’t deal in fairy tales

BreadofLife takes the entire book of revelation literally.
No symbolism no figurative language.

Never said it was fairy tales.
Its symbolism.