Irrefutable biblical proof that death is abolished at the second coming

[grafted branch]

The formula for a day in heaven, being the equal to 1000 years earth time, is in: Psalms 90:4 and 2 Peter 3:8

Here’s the thing I don’t get about the idea of one day in heaven being equal to one thousand years on earth …



If we assume the first seven days of creation are really seven thousand earth years, then when it comes to new heaven and new earth being created there is no seven thousand year time period for that to take place.

In John 14:2 Jesus says “I go to prepare a place for you”. If that statement was made approximately two thousand years ago then He is only on day two of the NHNE creation and if He takes time off to reign on earth for a thousand year millennium then He still would have an additional four thousand years before NHNE is finished.

When in time do you see NHNE being created if it’s going to take six thousand years and an additional one thousand to rest? Does NHNE take less time to create than the original heaven and earth?

 

[Keraz]

Here’s the thing I don’t get about the idea of one day in heaven being equal to one thousand years on earth …



If we assume the first seven days of creation are really seven thousand earth years, then when it comes to new heaven and new earth being created there is no seven thousand year time period for that to take place.

In John 14:2 Jesus says “I go to prepare a place for you”. If that statement was made approximately two thousand years ago then He is only on day two of the NHNE creation and if He takes time off to reign on earth for a thousand year millennium then He still would have an additional four thousand years before NHNE is finished.

When in time do you see NHNE being created if it’s going to take six thousand years and an additional one thousand to rest? Does NHNE take less time to create than the original heaven and earth?

It doesn't matter how long the New heavens and earth take to make, they will only appear after the Millennium. For Eternity and be populated by immortal people. As Revelation 21 to 22 tell us.
The 7000 year Plan of God for mankind, is true. Proved by the fact of there being nearly 6000 years since Adam until now.

As for the lengthy posts of the AMill pushers, I say again; their determination to not have a Millennium, is extremely pretentious and smacks of telling God what He can and can't do.
To reject the scriptures of Hosea 6:2 and Luke 13:32-33, as unworthy of proper study; as useless for us today, is nothing short of a crime against the Holy Word. Seems to be the M.O. of the AMill proponents.

 

[grafted branch]

It doesn't matter how long the New heavens and earth take to make, they will only appear after the Millennium. For Eternity and be populated by immortal people. As Revelation 21 to 22 tell us.
The 7000 year Plan of God for mankind, is true. Proved by the fact of there being nearly 6000 years since Adam until now.

Well, let’s say it’s another 4,000 years after the millennium before NHNE are finished. Where are the immortal believers during that time period? Are they just floating around or something, with nothing to do?

It just seems strange to me that there could be a time period after the millennium and Satan’s little season where NHNE aren’t finished yet.

 

[Keraz]

Well, let’s say it’s another 4,000 years after the millennium before NHNE are finished. Where are the immortal believers during that time period? Are they just floating around or something, with nothing to do?

It just seems strange to me that there could be a time period after the millennium and Satan’s little season where NHNE aren’t finished yet.

The dead believers lay in their graves; their next conscious moment will be as they stand before God on His Great White Throne. Proved by how David too; awaits that final Judgment. Acts 13:36
The living faithful peoples, will go into the Millennium with Jesus, With just those GT martyrs as per Rev 20:4.

Revelation 20:7 does say that Satans little season will be after the thousand years. Only after Satan and those who followed him, are disposed of, then the GWT Judgment of every person, does the NHNE appear.

 

[WPM]

To reject the scriptures of Hosea 6:2 and Luke 13:32-33, as unworthy of proper study; as useless for us today, is nothing short of a crime against the Holy Word. Seems to be the M.O. of the AMill proponents.

This is why few take you serious.

 

[tailgator]

Has anyone noticed Jesus did not give his revelation to any of his disciples other than John?

John is the only one Jesus shared certain secrets with.He waited till all the other apostles were dead before he shared the things in revelation and it just confounds some people on this board that the other apostles were not sent to prophecy about the end times.John was the only one.

John is the only one to write what the Lord told him to write.

 

[grafted branch]

Has anyone noticed Jesus did not give his revelation to any of his disciples other than John?

John is the only one Jesus shared certain secrets with.He waited till all the other apostles were dead before he shared the things in revelation and it just confounds some people on this board that the other apostles were not sent to prophecy about the end times.John was the only one.

John is the only one to write what the Lord told him to write.

I’m not sure where you’re going with that but if John was the only one to have been given certain information then it’s no use comparing scripture with scripture to interpret Revelation.

Do you somehow think we don’t need to look at the rest of the Bible to interpret Revelation?

 

[Keraz]

This is why few take you serious.

So, for you it isn't serious to ignore and dismiss Prophesies like Hosea 6:2, and Luke 13:32-33?
The AMill belief is not just wrong, but is a flat out denial of scriptural Truth.

Has anyone noticed Jesus did not give his revelation to any of his disciples other than John?

As Jesus was with the Israelites in the Exodus, 1 Corinthians 10:1-4, it was He who gave all the Prophesies to the ancient Prophets.
We would do well to study them all, so the Light of understanding can dawn upon us. 2 Peter 1:19

 

[Davidpt]

Well, let’s say it’s another 4,000 years after the millennium before NHNE are finished. Where are the immortal believers during that time period? Are they just floating around or something, with nothing to do?

It just seems strange to me that there could be a time period after the millennium and Satan’s little season where NHNE aren’t finished yet.

Even though I'm Premil, some Premils are not being consistent at times. Maybe even me at times. But in this case not meaning me as well. Some examples.

Revelation 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:


Most Premils apply this to the millennium after the 2nd coming.

Revelation 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

While some of these same Premils then apply this to the new heavens and new earth where they insist is not meaning until after the millennium.

Yet both passages involve rewards for the overcomers. Then some of these same Premils apply the following to overcomers when Christ returns.

Revelation 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.


Apparently, though His reward is with Him when He returns, He gives out the rewards involving Revelation 2:26 but holds back giving the rewards involving Revelation 2:7 until after a thousand years later. Which then makes nonsense out of the following.

Revelation 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Revelation 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great ; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Clearly, some of these Premils haven't thought all the way through some of these things, otherwise they would be applying, for example, Revelation 2:7, to that of the same time period I have underlined in Revelation 11:18, where that is involving Revelation 22:12.

And what time period is Revelation 2:7 involving?

Revelation 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

This time period. Except most of these Premils have Revelation 22:14 meaning after the millennium rather than during it.

Their thinking looks something like this.

Revelation 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

Which then involves this.

Revelation 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Revelation 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great ; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth .

And that this reward below is given out when when what I underlined is meaning.

Revelation 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

While this reward below is not given out when when what I underlined is meaning, but is given out over a thousand years later.

Revelation 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

Revelation 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Sometimes I have to wonder why I'm a Premil since I can't agree with some of their thinking at times because it renders some of the texts involved nonsensical rather than something that makes sense, thus not contradictory? But even so, Premil makes sense of numerous OT prophecies and Amil doesn't. And since both the OT and NT are holy writ, we can't act like prophecies in the OT are not relevant, thus must be disregarded, and that only what is recorded in the NT is relevant and we are to only go by what is recorded in the NT and never go by anything recorded in the OT ever.

 

[grafted branch]

Even though I'm Premil, some Premils are not being consistent at times. Maybe even me at times. But in this case not meaning me as well. Some examples.

Revelation 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:


Most Premils apply this to the millennium after the 2nd coming.

Revelation 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

While some of these same Premils then apply this to the new heavens and new earth where they insist is not meaning until after the millennium.

Yet both passages involve rewards for the overcomers. Then some of these same Premils apply the following to overcomers when Christ returns.

Revelation 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.


Apparently, though His reward is with Him when He returns, He gives out the rewards involving Revelation 2:26 but holds back giving the rewards involving Revelation 2:7 until after a thousand years later. Which then makes nonsense out of the following.

Revelation 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Revelation 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great ; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Clearly, some of these Premils haven't thought all the way through some of these things, otherwise they would be applying, for example, Revelation 2:7, to that of the same time period I have underlined in Revelation 11:18, where that is involving Revelation 22:12.

And what time period is Revelation 2:7 involving?

Revelation 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

This time period. Except most of these Premils have Revelation 22:14 meaning after the millennium rather than during it.

Their thinking looks something like this.

Revelation 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

Which then involves this.

Revelation 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Revelation 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great ; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth .

And that this reward below is given out when when what I underlined is meaning.

Revelation 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

While this reward below is not given out when when what I underlined is meaning, but is given out over a thousand years later.

Revelation 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

Revelation 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Sometimes I have to wonder why I'm a Premil since I can't agree with some of their thinking at times because it renders some of the texts involved nonsensical rather than something that makes sense, thus not contradictory? But even so, Premil makes sense of numerous OT prophecies and Amil doesn't. And since both the OT and NT are holy writ, we can't act like prophecies in the OT are not relevant, thus must be disregarded, and that only what is recorded in the NT is relevant and we are to only go by what is recorded in the NT and never go by anything recorded in the OT ever.

I do see the contradiction of claiming Revelation 2:26 happens during the millennium while at the same time claiming Revelation 2:7 happens after the millennium in NHNE.

An interesting thing about Revelation 22:2 is that the leaves of the tree are for healing. If the tree of life is in NHNE then we have to also conclude that there will be some kind of harm that also takes place in NHNE, else we wouldn’t need the leaves for healing.

 

[tailgator]

I’m not sure where you’re going with that but if John was the only one to have been given certain information then it’s no use comparing scripture with scripture to interpret Revelation.

Do you somehow think we don’t need to look at the rest of the Bible to interpret Revelation?

According to Paul he was looking through a dark glass not seeing everything.

Where does Jesus tell Paul to write the things which must shortly come to pass?

 

[tailgator]

So, for you it isn't serious to ignore and dismiss Prophesies like Hosea 6:2, and Luke 13:32-33?
The AMill belief is not just wrong, but is a flat out denial of scriptural Truth.

As Jesus was with the Israelites in the Exodus, 1 Corinthians 10:1-4, it was He who gave all the Prophesies to the ancient Prophets.
We would do well to study them all, so the Light of understanding can dawn upon us. 2 Peter 1:19

Jesus did not give Peter the revelation of Jesus Christ to write.
Jesus did not tell Peter to write at all.

Do you comprehend?


Jesus purposely waited till all the apostles were dead and buried before he gave John the revelation.And he gave it to him to write when he was very old.


Do you understand why?

Revelation 1
1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.

3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;

5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

 

[grafted branch]

According to Paul he was looking through a dark glass not seeing everything.

Where does Jesus tell Paul to write the things which must shortly come to pass?

When Paul wrote it wasn’t “must shortly come to pass” but in the years after Paul wrote, when John wrote, it was “must shortly come to pass”.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Has anyone noticed Jesus did not give his revelation to any of his disciples other than John?

John is the only one Jesus shared certain secrets with.He waited till all the other apostles were dead before he shared the things in revelation and it just confounds some people on this board that the other apostles were not sent to prophecy about the end times.John was the only one.

John is the only one to write what the Lord told him to write.

This is complete nonsense. Are you saying that Jesus Himself did not prophesy about the end times in the Olivet Discourse? Are you saying that Paul and Peter didn't prophesy about the end times? No wonder you don't take their teachings into account. You think they didn't know what they were talking about. What a joke.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

So, for you it isn't serious to ignore and dismiss Prophesies like Hosea 6:2, and Luke 13:32-33?

No one is doing that. We're simply calling you out for butchering those verses and making them say what you want them to say. You have no clear scripture to support your doctrine so you have to resort to twisting scriptures like those to keep your false doctrine afloat.

The AMill belief is not just wrong, but is a flat out denial of scriptural Truth.

Yet, you have proven to be completely unable to refute it. It is impossible to take you seriously. You make claims that you can't back up.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I’m not sure where you’re going with that but if John was the only one to have been given certain information then it’s no use comparing scripture with scripture to interpret Revelation.

Do you somehow think we don’t need to look at the rest of the Bible to interpret Revelation?

That is exactly what tailgator believes, which is completely foolish.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Even though I'm Premil, some Premils are not being consistent at times. Maybe even me at times. But in this case not meaning me as well. Some examples.

Revelation 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:


Most Premils apply this to the millennium after the 2nd coming.

Revelation 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

While some of these same Premils then apply this to the new heavens and new earth where they insist is not meaning until after the millennium.

Yet both passages involve rewards for the overcomers. Then some of these same Premils apply the following to overcomers when Christ returns.

Revelation 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.


Apparently, though His reward is with Him when He returns, He gives out the rewards involving Revelation 2:26 but holds back giving the rewards involving Revelation 2:7 until after a thousand years later. Which then makes nonsense out of the following.

Revelation 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Revelation 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great ; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Clearly, some of these Premils haven't thought all the way through some of these things, otherwise they would be applying, for example, Revelation 2:7, to that of the same time period I have underlined in Revelation 11:18, where that is involving Revelation 22:12.

And what time period is Revelation 2:7 involving?

Revelation 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

This time period. Except most of these Premils have Revelation 22:14 meaning after the millennium rather than during it.

Their thinking looks something like this.

Revelation 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

Which then involves this.

Revelation 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Revelation 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great ; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth .

And that this reward below is given out when when what I underlined is meaning.

Revelation 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

While this reward below is not given out when when what I underlined is meaning, but is given out over a thousand years later.

Revelation 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

Revelation 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Sometimes I have to wonder why I'm a Premil since I can't agree with some of their thinking at times because it renders some of the texts involved nonsensical rather than something that makes sense, thus not contradictory?

I wonder why you are a Premil, too. It's not as if it's only other Premils who are inconsistent in their view and you are not. You are, too. I also have to wonder why you would apply Revelation 21 and 22 to the thousand years when they clearly refer to eternity instead when "there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away." (Rev 21:4).

But even so, Premil makes sense of numerous OT prophecies and Amil doesn't.

That is a lie. Premil makes numerous OT prophecies contradict the NT. Such as Isaiah 2:2-4, which you always try to say refers to the thousand years that you think occur after His second coming. No, it does not. The NT makes it clear that the last days refer to the time period between the first and second coming of Christ (Acts 2:16-21, 2 Peter 3:3-4), not to a time period after His second coming.

And since both the OT and NT are holy writ, we can't act like prophecies in the OT are not relevant, thus must be disregarded, and that only what is recorded in the NT is relevant and we are to only go by what is recorded in the NT and never go by anything recorded in the OT ever.

Amil does not disregard the OT prophecies. But, Amils are not willing to interpret them in such a way that contradicts what is taught in the NT the way Premils do. And Amils allow the NT authors to explain what the OT prophecies mean, unlike Premils. For example, the prophecy about God raising up someone in David's line to ascend to the throne. According to Peter in Acts 2:29-36, the way that prophecy was fulfilled was by way of the resurrection of Jesus. But, Premils ignore that and try to claim that Jesus will come again and sit on the literal throne that David sat on or some nonsense like that.

 

[Davidpt]

I wonder why you are a Premil, too. It's not as if it's only other Premils who are inconsistent in their view and you are not. You are, too. I also have to wonder why you would apply Revelation 21 and 22 to the thousand years when they clearly refer to eternity instead when "there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away." (Rev 21:4).

I have no choice to if Premil is Biblical but Amil isn't. It's not like the NHNE don't begin with the 2nd coming. There is no way around that though most Premils think there is. Meaning that the NHNE begin with the 2nd coming.

What is your view of the following in Isaiah 60, meaning what are you applying it to? I apply it it what Revelation 21-22 is applying it to. And in that same context is Isaiah 60:12.

Isaiah 60:11 Therefore thy gates shall be open continually; they shall not be shut day nor night; that men may bring unto thee the forces of the Gentiles, and that their kings may be brought.
12 For the nation and kingdom that will not serve thee shall perish; yea, those nations shall be utterly wasted.
13 The glory of Lebanon shall come unto thee, the fir tree, the pine tree, and the box together, to beautify the place of my sanctuary; and I will make the place of my feet glorious.
14 The sons also of them that afflicted thee shall come bending unto thee; and all they that despised thee shall bow themselves down at the soles of thy feet; and they shall call thee, The city of the LORD, The Zion of the Holy One of Israel.
15 Whereas thou hast been forsaken and hated, so that no man went through thee, I will make thee an eternal excellency, a joy of many generations.
16 Thou shalt also suck the milk of the Gentiles, and shalt suck the breast of kings: and thou shalt know that I the LORD am thy Saviour and thy Redeemer, the mighty One of Jacob.
17 For brass I will bring gold, and for iron I will bring silver, and for wood brass, and for stones iron: I will also make thy officers peace, and thine exactors righteousness.
18 Violence shall no more be heard in thy land, wasting nor destruction within thy borders; but thou shalt call thy walls Salvation, and thy gates Praise.
19 The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee: but the LORD shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory.
20 Thy sun shall no more go down; neither shall thy moon withdraw itself: for the LORD shall be thine everlasting light, and the days of thy mourning shall be ended.
21 Thy people also shall be all righteous: they shall inherit the land for ever, the branch of my planting, the work of my hands, that I may be glorified.


It makes zero sense, that if verses 11, 13-21 are involving the same NHNE Revelation 21-22 are involving but verse 12 isn't. Why is it included in that context? Clearly, verse 12 is meaning before the GWTJ not after. Which has to mean the same has to be true for verses 11, 13-21 as well, otherwise one is cherry picking.

That is a lie. Premil makes numerous OT prophecies contradict the NT. Such as Isaiah 2:2-4, which you always try to say refers to the thousand years. No, it does not. The NT makes it clear that the last days refer to the time period between the first and second coming of Christ (Acts 2:16-21, 2 Peter 3:3-4), not to a time period after His second coming.

As to Isaiah 2:4, it it Amils making Jesus a liar per their interpretation. And here is why.

Isaiah 2:4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.


Versus what Jesus said in Matthew 24:7.

Matthew 24:7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

In what universe do the following mean the exact same thing? nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more---For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom

Obviously then, both can't be true at the same time. Which means the former can't be true until the latter is no longer true. Surely you understand what a contradiction is?

The solution is simple. The last days have a last day obviously, but the last day is not a 24 hour period of time or less, it is an era of time involving more than 24 literal hours or less. At least it can explain passages such as Matthew 19:28, unlike Amil that can only make nonsense out of that passage since Amil doesn't have a period of time after Christ returns for this prophecy to fit during.

Amil does not disregard the OT prophecies. But, Amils are not willing to interpret them in such a way that contradicts what is taught in the NT the way Premils do. And Amils allow the NT authors to explain what the OT prophecies mean, unlike Premils.

In some cases I feel Amils are doing the right thing by doing that. But not every time, though. But I don't agree with Amil's interpretation of Acts 2:29-36, nor I do I agree with any Premils if they are taking it to mean the same literal throne that David sat on. He will be sitting on a throne, though. Meaning once He returns to the earth. I just don't know what that might look like.

 

[WPM]

So, for you it isn't serious to ignore and dismiss Prophesies like Hosea 6:2, and Luke 13:32-33?
The AMill belief is not just wrong, but is a flat out denial of scriptural Truth.

As Jesus was with the Israelites in the Exodus, 1 Corinthians 10:1-4, it was He who gave all the Prophesies to the ancient Prophets.
We would do well to study them all, so the Light of understanding can dawn upon us. 2 Peter 1:19

You do not get it do you? You're so blinded by your own false doctrine that you cannot see that we are actually promoting what the Bible literally says, not fighting with it like you do.

 

[WPM]

I have no choice to if Premil is Biblical but Amil isn't. It's not like the NHNE don't begin with the 2nd coming. There is no way around that though most Premils think there is. Meaning that the NHNE begin with the 2nd coming.

What is your view of the following in Isaiah 60, meaning what are you applying it to? I apply it it what Revelation 21-22 is applying it to. And in that same context is Isaiah 60:12.

Isaiah 60:11 Therefore thy gates shall be open continually; they shall not be shut day nor night; that men may bring unto thee the forces of the Gentiles, and that their kings may be brought.
12 For the nation and kingdom that will not serve thee shall perish; yea, those nations shall be utterly wasted.
13 The glory of Lebanon shall come unto thee, the fir tree, the pine tree, and the box together, to beautify the place of my sanctuary; and I will make the place of my feet glorious.
14 The sons also of them that afflicted thee shall come bending unto thee; and all they that despised thee shall bow themselves down at the soles of thy feet; and they shall call thee, The city of the LORD, The Zion of the Holy One of Israel.
15 Whereas thou hast been forsaken and hated, so that no man went through thee, I will make thee an eternal excellency, a joy of many generations.
16 Thou shalt also suck the milk of the Gentiles, and shalt suck the breast of kings: and thou shalt know that I the LORD am thy Saviour and thy Redeemer, the mighty One of Jacob.
17 For brass I will bring gold, and for iron I will bring silver, and for wood brass, and for stones iron: I will also make thy officers peace, and thine exactors righteousness.
18 Violence shall no more be heard in thy land, wasting nor destruction within thy borders; but thou shalt call thy walls Salvation, and thy gates Praise.
19 The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee: but the LORD shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory.
20 Thy sun shall no more go down; neither shall thy moon withdraw itself: for the LORD shall be thine everlasting light, and the days of thy mourning shall be ended.
21 Thy people also shall be all righteous: they shall inherit the land for ever, the branch of my planting, the work of my hands, that I may be glorified.


It makes zero sense, that if verses 11, 13-21 are involving the same NHNE Revelation 21-22 are involving but verse 12 isn't. Why is it included in that context? Clearly, verse 12 is meaning before the GWTJ not after. Which has to mean the same has to be true for verses 11, 13-21 as well, otherwise one is cherry picking.



As to Isaiah 2:4, it it Amils making Jesus a liar per their interpretation. And here is why.

Isaiah 2:4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.


Versus what Jesus said in Matthew 24:7.

Matthew 24:7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

In what universe do the following mean the exact same thing? nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more---For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom

Obviously then, both can't be true at the same time. Which means the former can't be true until the latter is no longer true. Surely you understand what a contradiction is?

The solution is simple. The last days have a last day obviously, but the last day is not a 24 hour period of time or less, it is an era of time involving more than 24 literal hours or less. At least it can explain passages such as Matthew 19:28, unlike Amil that can only make nonsense out of that passage since Amil doesn't have a period of time after Christ returns for this prophecy to fit during.



In some cases I feel Amils are doing the right thing by doing that. But not every time, though. But I don't agree with Amil's interpretation of Acts 2:29-36, nor I do I agree with any Premils if they are taking it to mean the same literal throne that David sat on. He will be sitting on a throne, though. Meaning once He returns to the earth. I just don't know what that might look like.

How can they be the same? How can you possibly equate the millennial earth to the new heavens and new earth? They are polar opposites. This is absolutely ridiculous. You have to argue this because Premil contradicts Scripture at every turn. One Premil argument takes out another. All you do every time your doctrine is exposed is run from the debate. That is your modus operandi.

The millennial earth you profess contains sin.
The new earth does not contain sin.

The millennial earth you profess contains death.
The new earth does not contain death.

The millennial earth you profess contains corruption.
The new earth does not contain corruption.

The millennial earth you profess contains war and terror.
The new earth does not contain war.

The millennial earth you profess contains tears.
The new earth does not contain tears.

The millennial earth you profess contains Satan.
The new earth does not contain Satan.

The millennial earth you profess contains the wicked.
The new earth does not contain the wicked.

The millennial earth you profess contains rebellion and anarchy.
The new earth does not contain rebellion and anarchy.