what I learned about oneness pentecostalism

[David in NJ]

Yeah, precisely. They demand logic before they are to believe, then discard logic in their counter arguments.

You nailed it

 

[David in NJ]

Philippians 2:10-11 KJV
10) That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11) And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Isaiah 45:23-25 KJV
23) I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
24) Surely, shall one say, in the LORD have I righteousness and strength: even to him shall men come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed.
25) In the LORD shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.

So here's the question.

Was Paul meaning that we will all confess that Jesus Christ is Lord in the sense of Him being our Master?

Or was Paul meaning that we will all confess that Jesus Christ is LORD, that is, YHWH?

Wouldn't applying the Isaiah passage to Jesus be blasphemous if Jesus were not YHWH?

Much love!

It would also be blasphemous of the Hebrew John to write: "the Word was God"

@Johann - i call them 'monotheistic atheists'

 

[Brakelite]

Do you shun them because their understanding of the "trinity" differs from yours? If they believe and profess that Jesus is Lord, are they not your brothers and sisters in Christ?

Throughout John's gospel and his first 2 letters, John emphasises one thing... the literal ontological relationship between the Father and His Son. That Jesus was and is the only begotten Son of God from eternity and was sent to this world to become human and die, is the gospel, and the basis for Christianity. Oneness denies this. And the existence of satan.

 

[David in NJ]

Throughout John's gospel and his first 2 letters, John emphasises one thing... the literal ontological relationship between the Father and His Son. That Jesus was and is the only begotten Son of God from eternity and was sent to this world to become human and die, is the gospel, and the basis for Christianity. Oneness denies this. And the existence of satan.

Do you understand that the man named 'Jesus' did not exist until a physical Body was created inside the womb of Mary by the Holy Spirit?

n the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
He was in the beginning with God.
All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.
In Him was life, and the life was the light of men

And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

 

[Brakelite]

Do you understand that the man named 'Jesus' did not exist until a physical Body was created inside the womb of Mary by the Holy Spirit?

n the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
He was in the beginning with God.
All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.
In Him was life, and the life was the light of men

And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

Yea, but He wasn't a new being, He was the Son of God Who became flesh. The Word is a metaphor, used to signify the work and ministry and character/ nature and original source of that divine being Who took upon Himself human flesh.

 

[Brakelite]

Yea, but He wasn't a new being, He was the Son of God Who became flesh. The Word is a metaphor, used to signify the work and ministry and character/ nature and original source of that divine being Who took upon Himself human flesh.

The difference @David in NJ between you and me isn't much, but my belief cannot harmonious with the traditional Trinitarian concept as you believe it to be. And that difference is in the begotten nature of the Son. The Trinity as in the latter creeds which are accepted almost universally, defines the Son as being eternally begotten from all eternity, whereas i believe the Son was begotten at a certain point in eternity. Which means the Father/ Son paradigm for me is more closely related to how humans would normally believe a generational begetting would look like. God sent a Son. A real Son. Not a co equal eternal member who took on the role of son in order to demonstrate something we couldn't presumably understand otherwise.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

i believe the Son was begotten at a certain point in eternity.

No, he took upon Himself flesh at one point.... when He popped out His momma mary...

But, He was never created as He is not a created being

John 1:1-3
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The same was in the beginning with God.
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Not a co equal eternal member who took on the role of son in order to demonstrate something we couldn't presumably understand otherwise.

Anyone claiming Jesus Christ is not God... needs more scripture study!

Hebrews 1:8 (see Psalm 45:6)
But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

And yes... thru the Holy Spirit was can learn and understand!

1 Corinthians 2:9-12
But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
BUT God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

 

[Verily]

@Brakelite the scripture tells us the day the Son was begotten

Mentioned in Psalm 2:7 (Jesus speaking)

Psalm 2:7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto ME, Thou art my Son;
THIS DAY have I BEGOTTEN thee.

Mentioned also in Acts 13:33 as something that needed to be fulfilled (which God hath fulfilled)

Acts 13:33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, THIS DAY have I BEGOTTEN thee.

Which is also the same day Christ was made an high priest

Heb 5:5 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him,
Thou art my Son, TO DAY have I BEGOTTEN thee.

Which was also mentioned in Psalm 110:4

Psalm 110:4 The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

the scripture tells us the day the Son was begotten

No, it tells us He took upon Himself flesh... Jesus is God's Word and . . . . In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God (John 1:1)

 

[Dan Clarkston]

Psalm 110:4 The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.

That was after Jesus was raised from the dead... He was the first born from the dead see Colossians 1:18

 

[Verily]

No, it tells us He took upon Himself flesh... Jesus is God's Word and . . . . In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God (John 1:1)

Which verse that I quoted says this?

 

[Verily]

That was after Jesus was raised from the dead... He was the first born from the dead see Colossians 1:1

Why are you ignoring this verse I posted

Heb 5:5 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him,
Thou art my Son, TO DAY have I BEGOTTEN thee.

 

[Verily]

I will highlight the scripture tells us the day the Son was begotten

Mentioned in Psalm 2:7 (Jesus speaking)

Psalm 2:7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto ME, Thou art my Son;
THIS DAY have I BEGOTTEN thee.

Mentioned also in Acts 13:33 as something that needed to be fulfilled (which God hath fulfilled)

Acts 13:33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, THIS DAY have I BEGOTTEN thee.

Which is also the same day Christ was made an high priest

Heb 5:5 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him,
Thou art my Son, TO DAY have I BEGOTTEN thee.

Which was also mentioned in Psalm 110:4

Psalm 110:4 The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

Heb 5:5 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him,
Thou art my Son, TO DAY have I BEGOTTEN thee.

That was AFTER Jesus was raised from the dead... at His coronation as High Priest by the Father

Hebrews 1:1-8
God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

 

[Verily]

That was AFTER Jesus was raised from the dead... at His coronation as High Priest by the Father

Thats obvious, what makes you think the verses are not saying this?

Let me rehighlight for you

Acts 13:33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, IN THAT he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, THIS DAY have I BEGOTTEN thee.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

Why are you ignoring this verse I posted

Are you claiming Jesus is a created being like the angels are and like man is?

If so then this is the belief that Jesus is not God's Word manifest in the flesh

Various cults believe this sort of thing

 

[Verily]

Are you claiming Jesus is a created being like the angels are and like man is?

If so then this is the belief that Jesus is not God's Word manifest in the flesh

Various cults believe this sort of thing

Which verse do you believe accuses me of beliving this?

 

[Dan Clarkston]

Let me rehighlight for you

You need to be "enlightened" and discover the what the Lord said thru John is actually true!

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God
(John 1:1)

 

[Verily]

You need to be "enlightened" and discover the what the Lord said thru John is actually true!

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God
(John 1:1)

What makes you think I do not know this verse?

 

[Dan Clarkston]

Which verse do you believe accuses me of beliving this?

WHY don't you believe John 1:1