face2face
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"In our image" That is, in the image of the Elohim whom the Father used in the work of creation
Exploring Trinitarian Logic
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Magdala
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Gen. 1:26-27 states that man was created by God in God's image and likeness, not created by any other, nor in any other's image and likeness. Therefore, the first-person plural words "Us" and "Our" in Gen. 1:26 can only refer to God. Why did the one God speak in the first-person plural? It's because He exists in three Persons: the Father, the Word (the Son), and the Holy Spirit, each distinct, united as one because They are the same Essence: love.
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face2face
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So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them Ge 1:27.
It is important to observe the difference in the pronouns used in this verse. The personal, masculine "him" refers to man, who is made in the image of God, while the plural "them" represents a development from the original man, as explained in chapter 2. It is man who is created in the image of God and is to exercise dominion over the woman. His role in the family mirrors Yahweh’s role in the family of God. Paul taught that God's position should be made clear, especially in worship, where the man's role should be recognized. He stated, "For a man indeed ought not to cover his head (i.e., in worship), for he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of the man. For the man is not from the woman, but the woman from the man. Neither was the man created for the woman, but the woman for the man" (1 Cor. 11:7-9)
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face2face
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The work of the sixth day symbolized the pinnacle of God's work in His new creation. In the old creation, man was made in the image of God. In the new creation, we will see the image of Christ fully revealed in the believer:
Galatians 4:19 (ESV) states:
"My little children, for whom I am again in the anguish of childbirth until Christ is formed in you."
F2F
- "He shall come to be glorified in his saints" (2 Thess. 1:10).
- "When He shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is" (1 John 3:2).
Galatians 4:19 (ESV) states:
"My little children, for whom I am again in the anguish of childbirth until Christ is formed in you."
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Magdala
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Are you trying to say that the first and subsequent humans weren't and aren't created in the image and likeness of God, because that's not what Genesis states. Gen. 1:26-27 states that man was created by God in God's image and likeness, not created by any other, nor in any other's image and likeness. Therefore, the first-person plural words "Us" and "Our" in Gen. 1:26 can only refer to God. Why did the one God speak in the first-person plural? It's because He exists in three Persons: the Father, the Son (the Word), and the Holy Spirit, each distinct, united as one because They are the same Essence: love.
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face2face
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It's unfortunate that you seem unable to understand that God only creates people capable of reflecting His character through His image and likeness. The Elohim are also in His Image and Likeness - do you understand that?
It seems your thinking may be misaligned or not properly attuned to this truth. Maybe your brain is hardwired to Trinity dogma that these very simple teachings cannot be formed in you?
What's interesting in all the discussions on this subject you have not mentioned the Angels (Elohim) once in the context of image and likeness.
That's a "you" problem not a "my" problem lol
You can keep posting as much as you like but until you get with the record you post in vain.
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Magdala
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You think that the word "Elohim" in Gen. 1 means "angels"? Well, there's your problem lol.
Gen. 1:26-27 states that man was created by God in God's image and likeness, not created by angels, nor in the image and likeness of angels. Therefore, the first-person plural words "Us" and "Our" in Gen. 1:26 can only refer to God. Why did the one God speak in the first-person plural? It's because He exists in three Persons: the Father, the Son (the Word), and the Holy Spirit, each distinct, united as one because They are the same Essence: love.
"[...] God created man, in the likeness of God [...]" (Gen. 5:1)
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face2face
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A similar use of language in reference to the Elohim can be found in Genesis 3:22, 11:7, Isaiah 6:8, and other passages. In Genesis 3:22, it is written: "Behold, the man has become like one of us, to know good and evil." Man could not become one of the Trinity, but he could become like one of the angels, as they attained their elevated status through probation. Christ promised that those who are approved will become "equal to the angels" in the Age to come (Luke 20:36). In Psalm 8:5, the word Elohim is translated as "angels." A comparison of Numbers 12:8 with Acts 7:38, or of Genesis 32:30 with Hosea 12:3-4, reveals that the word Elohim, when translated as "God," can also refer to angels, the representatives of Yahweh Elohim.
I'm happy for you to check all the references, but it's very clear—crystal clear, in fact!
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I imagine it will take you some time to go through the quotes, so we hope not to see a post from you for a little while!
Brakelite
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I have. It's in Exodus. Clear as day. Christ in His pre-existent form and as sole Mediator between God and man, brought Israel out of Egypt, provided food and water, preserved their health and clothing, fought their enemies, protected them from serpents when they were faithful, provided light and heat at night, and shade in the day, spoke to Moses on the Mount and wrote the Ten Commandments with His own finger, revealed His glory to Moses (His character and name), keeping the covenant made with Abraham in Genesis. And much more besides. You deny Christ's divinity and preexistence, reveals you don't know Him. I doing expect anyone to know everything about Jesus the Son of God, but I do expect them to know what is written.
“1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat; 4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. 5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness. 6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted. 7 Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play. 8 Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand. 9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents. 10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer. 11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come. 12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall. ”
1 Corinthians 10:1-12 KJV
David in NJ
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@APAK @face2face @Wrangler deny Christ's divinity and preexistence, reveals they don't know Him.I have. It's in Exodus. Clear as day. Christ in His pre-existent form and as sole Mediator between God and man, brought Israel out of Egypt, provided food and water, preserved their health and clothing, fought their enemies, protected them from serpents when they were faithful, provided light and heat at night, and shade in the day, spoke to Moses on the Mount and wrote the Ten Commandments with His own finger, revealed His glory to Moses (His character and name), keeping the covenant made with Abraham in Genesis. And much more besides. You deny Christ's divinity and preexistence, reveals you don't know Him. I doing expect anyone to know everything about Jesus the Son of God, but I do expect them to know what is written.
“1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat; 4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. 5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness. 6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted. 7 Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play. 8 Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand. 9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents. 10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer. 11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come. 12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall. ”
1 Corinthians 10:1-12 KJV
David in NJ
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@APAK @face2face @Wrangler are Biblical atheists.I have. It's in Exodus. Clear as day. Christ in His pre-existent form and as sole Mediator between God and man, brought Israel out of Egypt, provided food and water, preserved their health and clothing, fought their enemies, protected them from serpents when they were faithful, provided light and heat at night, and shade in the day, spoke to Moses on the Mount and wrote the Ten Commandments with His own finger, revealed His glory to Moses (His character and name), keeping the covenant made with Abraham in Genesis. And much more besides. You deny Christ's divinity and preexistence, reveals you don't know Him. I doing expect anyone to know everything about Jesus the Son of God, but I do expect them to know what is written.
“1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat; 4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. 5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness. 6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted. 7 Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play. 8 Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand. 9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents. 10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer. 11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come. 12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall. ”
1 Corinthians 10:1-12 KJV
They claim to know Elohim but then they deny HIM & HIM & HIM who are Echad
Brakelite
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Let us not fall into the trap of presumption when reading scripture. Yes, first person plural...let us make... does not say 3,5, or 27. It is presumption to settle in a number. We do know God was talking to someone, and in the NT it is revealed Who that Someone was. It was God's Son. The Father created all things through His Son. Therefore it is not presumption to say that when God said, let us make man in our image and in our likeness, then He was talking with His Son. Yes, the holy Spirit was present obviously, but we do not know what role, if any, He played in either that conversation or in creation.
Magdala
Active Member
I do know, and you can know too, because Jesus talked about it back in the 1940's, and probably since then as well.
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David in NJ
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a little HELP for you as i am now going 2 sleep
It is presumption to settle in a number when the number has already been specified to the reader
Magdala
Active Member
Gen. 1:26-27 states that man was created by God in God's image and likeness, not created by angels, nor in the image and likeness of angels. Therefore, the first-person plural words "Us" and "Our" in Gen. 1:26 can only refer to God. Why did the one God speak in the first-person plural? It's because He exists in three Persons: the Father, the Son (the Word), and the Holy Spirit, each distinct, united as one because They are the same Essence: love.
"[...] God created man, in the likeness of God [...] (Gen. 5:1)
The first and subsequent humans did become like the Holy Trinity by becoming knowledgeable of good and evil ever since the first disobeyed.
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Brakelite
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Not eternal in the past. If He was eternal in the past, you reduce His Sonship to a metaphor. He was begotten before creation, and we know this because the Father created all things through His Son.
face2face
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Sounds lovely, Brakelite, but no... just as Christ was not literally a lamb slain from the foundation of the world, He is not a literal rock either. I'm sure the imagery isn't lost on your understanding!
Also, Christ was not the literal brazen serpent lifted up on a pole in the desert and I could go to list all the order of anti-typical sacrifices which also speak to him.
I know the Master well Brakelite, but could always know him more thoroughly as we all could.
Agree, and what is written is Paul "and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank from the spiritual rock that followed them, and the rock was Christ."
If we assumed you methodology you would have Christ transformed into Temple furniture and all the symbolic import that comes with it.
“1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat; 4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. 5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness. 6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted. 7 Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play. 8 Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand. 9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents. 10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer. 11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come. 12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall. ”
1 Corinthians 10:1-12 KJV
It is powerful imagery though Brakelite as I shared with you privately which I will do so again for others benefit.
Moses' act of striking the first rock in Exodus 17:5 symbolized Christ's flesh, which would be crucified. However, the second rock, which Moses was instructed to speak to, symbolized Christ’s resurrection, isolated from humanity like a crag. Moses' mistake foreshadowed the Jewish rejection of the risen Christ, as they persecuted His followers. Paul later warned of "crucifying Christ afresh," emphasizing that Moses' error reflected the nation's failure to recognize the true identity of the resurrected Christ. (Apostle Paul's Context!)
The Jews repeated this error when they crucified Christ, as failing to honor the Son is failing to honor the Father (John 5:23)
In the age to come, the Jewish people will be compelled to acknowledge their actions, looking upon Yahweh, whom they pierced, and mourning deeply for His manifestation in His Son, the Rock. This will be a profound moment of remorse, likened to the mourning for an only son (Zech. 12:10)
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face2face
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Well if you could identify correct your obsession with three's, maybe the door of truth would open for you also?
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face2face
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They couldn't! The Holy Trinity isn't a thing for them to become in the first place - that's the point Lux!
Sharpen up!
Magdala
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Well, that's an expected response from someone who doesn't currently recognize that the Holy Trinity is God.
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