Revelation 7: 4-8 The 144000

[PinSeeker]

Their mission will be one of both proclamation and restoration, revealing God’s truth and preparing the world for the Messiah’s return.

Right, and this was the commission Jesus gave to all of us at the end of Matthew 28:19-20 ~ "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you" ~ and just before His ascension to heaven in Acts 1:8 ("...you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth"). In both cases, He was speaking immediately to His disciples and by extension to us.

Grace and peace to you, CTK.

 

[rwb]

The 144,000 in Revelation as God’s chosen witnesses at the end of time is both compelling and meaningful. These individuals represent God’s people who, like Paul, will be given their own "Damascus experience.” Romans 11:25-26 speaks of a time when the partial hardening of Israel will end, allowing them to recognize Jesus as their Messiah. This aligns with Zechariah 12:10, where the people of Israel will mourn deeply as they realize they have pierced the One who came to save them. At this pivotal moment, God’s people will have the blindness lifted from their eyes and will embrace Jesus, fulfilling their role in His redemptive plan.

These 144,000 will then go out into the world, preaching the Good News with fervor and urgency, much like Paul did in the first century. Their mission will be a final call to humanity to turn to God before the return of Christ. This mission is tied to the prophetic timeline of Daniel’s 70 weeks of years (Daniel 9:24-27). The 3.5 years of ministry by the 144,000 will complete the final portion of the 490 years decreed for God’s people. The timeline, which began in 457 BC, was interrupted at the cross, with 486.5 years fulfilled. The remaining 3.5 years must be completed, and can only be completed by His people. At the conclusion of these final 3.5 years, the 4th and final Great Jubilee cycle will be completed – then the Messiah.

The 144,000, sealed as God’s faithful witnesses, will not only go out into the world to preach the Word of God and the Testimony of Jesus but will also expose the profound departure of the church and its teachings from the true Word of God. Over the past 1500 years, the little horn, symbolizing the papacy, has disseminated doctrines and practices that diverge from biblical truth. These witnesses will serve as a powerful testimony, shining a light on these deviations and calling people back to the purity of God’s Word. Their mission will be one of both proclamation and restoration, revealing God’s truth and preparing the world for the Messiah’s return.

If the 144,000 literally represent God's chosen witnesses at the end of time physically preaching the Good News as Paul did in the first century, only their mission as the final call for man to turn to God through Christ, why does John write they are with Christ on heavenly mount Sion as first fruits redeemed from men before the throne of God? They shall not become the first fruits unto God and the Lamb! They ARE the first fruits unto God and the Lamb, having already been redeemed from among men!

Revelation 14:1-5 (KJV) And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads. And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Total, unrelated NONSENSE. This is bad doctrine because NEVER does the bible ever say or imply that Jesus and Michael are the same person. It is one of the highest heresies and should be a banned topic at all Christian forums worldwide.

LOL

 

[CTK]

If the 144,000 literally represent God's chosen witnesses at the end of time physically preaching the Good News as Paul did in the first century, only their mission as the final call for man to turn to God through Christ, why does John write they are with Christ on heavenly mount Sion as first fruits redeemed from men before the throne of God? They shall not become the first fruits unto God and the Lamb! They ARE the first fruits unto God and the Lamb, having already been redeemed from among men!

Revelation 14:1-5 (KJV) And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads. And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

Part 1.


Revelation 14:1-2

1 Then I looked, and behold, a Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, having His Father’s name written on their foreheads. 2 And I heard a voice from heaven, like the voice of many waters, and like the voice of loud thunder.

In Revelation 14:1-2, the focus shifts dramatically from the dark and oppressive imagery of chapter 13, where the sea beast and earth beast work to deceive and control the world, to a scene of glorious triumph and worship. John now sees the Lamb standing on Mount Zion, accompanied by the 144,000 faithful, with a heavenly voice resounding like mighty waters and harpists playing their harps. This moment is a powerful and uplifting contrast to the previous chapter’s depiction of those who bore the mark of the beast.

The central figure here is the Lamb, Jesus Christ, who stands as the victorious and exalted Savior. Throughout Revelation, the Lamb symbolizes Jesus’ sacrificial love and His triumph over sin and death. Standing on Mount Zion, a location deeply significant in Scripture, we are reminded of both the earthly Jerusalem—where God’s people worshiped—and the heavenly Zion, the eternal dwelling place of God (Hebrews 12:22). This signals that the vision represents a spiritual victory and an assurance of Christ’s ultimate reign.

With the Lamb are the 144,000, previously introduced in Revelation 7. These do not reflect a literal number but a symbolic representation of God’s faithful people—those who have been redeemed, sealed, and set apart for Him. Their Father’s name written on their foreheads stands in stark contrast to those who bear the mark of the beast from chapter 13. Where the beast’s followers pledged allegiance to a counterfeit system, the 144,000 reflect their loyalty to God, bearing His name as a sign of ownership and devotion. This highlights a profound truth: while the beast claims authority over the world, God marks His people as His own, securing them for eternity.

The voice from heaven, described as like the sound of many waters and thunder, reflects the majesty and power of God. This same imagery is used in Revelation 1:15 to describe Christ’s voice, reinforcing the divine presence in this scene. The harpists playing their harps bring an element of worship and celebration, echoing Old Testament scenes where harps were used to praise God for victory, deliverance, and His faithfulness. For example, King David played the harp in worship, and harps were central in temple music (Psalm 33:2; 1 Chronicles 15:16). The harp also appeared in moments of prophecy, as seen when Elisha sought the Lord’s word (2 Kings 3:15). Here, the harpists symbolize the eternal joy and harmony of God’s presence and the triumphant worship of the redeemed.

This scene takes place in a heavenly context—Mount Zion likely refers to the heavenly Jerusalem—but it also speaks to the spiritual victory of God’s people on earth. In contrast to the beast’s oppressive reign in chapter 13, where humanity was deceived, controlled, and marked for destruction, chapter 14 opens with a vision of God’s faithful standing firm and victorious with the Lamb. This is a message of hope: no matter how powerful the beast’s system may seem, those who remain loyal to Christ will ultimately stand victorious with Him.

In chapter 13, we saw the beast rising from the sea and the earth beast deceiving the world, compelling people to worship the beast and take its mark. The focus was on Satan’s counterfeit system, filled with oppression, deception, and idolatry. The mark of the beast symbolized allegiance to this false kingdom, highlighting humanity’s rebellion against God.

Now, in chapter 14, the focus shifts to God’s true kingdom. Instead of a mark of the beast, we see the Father’s name on the foreheads of the 144,000. Instead of deception, there is worship. Instead of fear and coercion, there is joy and celebration. The scene serves as a divine counterpoint to the beast’s temporary reign, revealing the true King—Jesus Christ—and His victorious people. Revelation 14:1-2 reminds us that no matter how dark and oppressive the enemy’s reign may appear, the Lamb stands victorious, and His people stand with Him. The power of God’s voice and the joy of heavenly worship serve as a foretaste of the ultimate deliverance and triumph of His kingdom.

 

[CTK]

If the 144,000 literally represent God's chosen witnesses at the end of time physically preaching the Good News as Paul did in the first century, only their mission as the final call for man to turn to God through Christ, why does John write they are with Christ on heavenly mount Sion as first fruits redeemed from men before the throne of God? They shall not become the first fruits unto God and the Lamb! They ARE the first fruits unto God and the Lamb, having already been redeemed from among men!

Revelation 14:1-5 (KJV) And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads. And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

Part 2.



Revelation 14:3-5
And I heard the sound of harpists playing their harps. 3 They sang as it were a new song before the throne, before the four living creatures, and the elders; and no one could learn that song except the hundred and forty-four thousand who were redeemed from the earth. 4 These are the ones who were not defiled with women, for they are virgins. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These were redeemed from among men, being first fruits to God and to the Lamb. 5 And in their mouth was found no deceit, for they are without fault before the throne of God.

Revelation 14:3-5 presents a vision of redemption, spiritual awakening, and victory. The 144,000 represent the Jewish people whose blindness has been removed, allowing them to recognize Jesus as the Messiah. Like Paul, they are sent into the world to proclaim the true Word of God and the Testimony of Jesus, and will also complete the final 3.5 years that was to come to its end at the end of the 70 weeks of years prophecy in Daniel 9.
Described as spiritually pure, truthful, and devoted, the 144,000 sing a new song—a song of redemption and victory that belongs to them alone. They are the first fruits of God’s end-time work, a special offering set apart for Him. In contrast to the beast’s followers in chapter 13, the 144,000 stand blameless and marked with the name of the Father, testifying to the power of God’s grace and the victory of the Lamb. This passage offers profound hope: God’s plan is unfolding perfectly, and those who remain faithful to Him will stand victorious with Christ. The Lamb leads His redeemed people in triumph, proving that no deception, persecution, or darkness can overcome God’s truth and purpose.
The 144,000 sing a new song before the throne of God, the four living creatures, and the elders. This "new song" reflects a unique experience—a testimony of redemption and unwavering faithfulness through trial. In Scripture, new songs often celebrate God’s deliverance and victory (Psalm 98:1, Exodus 15), and this one is no different. The 144,000 are described as singing a “new song” that no one else can learn (Revelation 14:3). This song symbolizes the deep spiritual insight and understanding that comes from their unique journey. Having been restored to spiritual sight, they possess an unparalleled understanding of the Word of God and the Testimony of Jesus. Their song is not merely a melody; it is a declaration of divine truths that only they, through their specific experience, can fully comprehend and articulate.
The lyrics of this song, metaphorically speaking, are written with the ink of their restored faith and newfound knowledge of Jesus as both Messiah and the God of their ancestors. This revelation allows them to proclaim a message that is pure, complete, and unlike any other. The song encapsulates the essence of the Gospel, testifying to God’s faithfulness and the fulfillment of His promises through Jesus Christ. It is a song of redemption, victory, and divine truth, resonating with a clarity and authenticity that challenges the false teachings and corrupt doctrines propagated over centuries the little horn. This unique ability to sing the song underscores their role as God’s messengers in the final days. Their mission is to preach the Good News to the world, shining a light on the truths that have been obscured. Their song becomes a beacon of hope and a call to repentance, inviting all who hear it to turn to God and embrace His salvation.
This awakening comes at a pivotal time: after the time of the Gentiles is fulfilled. Their mission will complete the fourth and final Great Jubilee cycle of 490 years, which began in 457 BC and was to be fulfilled 490 years later. This prophetic timeline paused at 486.5 years when Jesus was crucified, leaving the final 3.5 years incomplete. Only the Jewish people—God’s covenant people—can fulfill this final Jubilee, and the 144,000 will do so as they preach the pure and uncorrupted Gospel to a world deceived by the beast.
Spiritual Purity:
The 144,000 are described as “not defiled with women, for they are virgins.” This language is symbolic, emphasizing their spiritual purity and faithfulness to God. In prophetic Scripture, idolatry and false worship are often depicted as "spiritual adultery" (Hosea, Jeremiah). The 144,000 remain untainted by the false doctrines, traditions, and spiritual harlotry of the corrupted church system. Their loyalty to God’s Word stands in sharp contrast to those who follow the beast.
Following the Lamb:
They “follow the Lamb wherever He goes,” which shows their complete devotion and obedience to Jesus Christ. In a world filled with deception, these individuals remain steadfast in following Christ, echoing His call for true discipleship in Matthew 16:24: “Take up your cross and follow Me.”
First fruits to God and the Lamb:
The 144,000 are described as “first fruits,” a term rooted in Old Testament imagery where the first portion of a harvest was offered to God (Leviticus 23:10). This description highlights their unique role:
They are the first spiritually restored group of Jews at the end of time, symbolizing greater harvest of souls to come.
They are a special offering to God, set apart for His purposes, just as the apostles were in the early church.
Truthfulness and Blamelessness:
In their mouths is “no deceit,” meaning they proclaim the uncorrupted and pure truth of God’s Word. In contrast to the lies and deception spread by the beast, the 144,000 are messengers of divine truth. They stand “without fault before the throne of God,” not because of their own perfection, but because they have been redeemed and covered by the grace of Christ. Having had their spiritual blindness removed, they are now fully devoted to God and blinded to anything except His Word and truth.
The "new song" sung by the 144,000 symbolizes their unique testimony. Just as Israel sang a new song after their deliverance from Egypt (Exodus 15), the 144,000 sing in response to their spiritual restoration and redemption. Only they can learn this song because it reflects their exclusive experience—one of awakening, recognition of Jesus as their Messiah, and fulfilling their role in God’s final plan of salvation. This new song is sung in the presence of God’s throne, the four living creatures, and the elders, highlighting its significance in the heavenly realm.
In chapter 13, the focus was on the followers of the beast who received its mark and were defiled by false worship. Now, in chapter 14, the 144,000 provide a profound contrast. They are marked with the name of the Father on their foreheads, signifying their allegiance to God alone. While the beast’s followers worship a counterfeit system, the 144,000 remain pure, faithful, and victorious. Where the beast’s kingdom operates through lies and coercion, the 144,000 proclaim truth and freedom through Christ.

 

[rwb]

Part 1 & 2.

Your replies are lengthy and contain much detail but fail to address the point I briefly make. Can you briefly respond to what I've said: "If the 144,000 literally represent God's chosen witnesses at the end of time physically preaching the Good News as Paul did in the first century, only their mission as the final call for man to turn to God through Christ, why does John write they are with Christ on heavenly mount Sion as first fruits redeemed from men before the throne of God? They shall not become the first fruits unto God and the Lamb! They ARE the first fruits unto God and the Lamb, having already been redeemed from among men!"

This statement implies the first fruits unto God and the Lamb are not spiritual Jews living during the end of days. Since they are already the spiritual body of Christ in heavenly Jerusalem, they are in the heavenly realm of God being made spiritually alive after physical death when the Spirit of Christ came to seal them with spiritual life. That's why John writes they are (not shall be) redeemed from the earth having the Father's name written in their foreheads. "These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb."

 

[TribulationSigns]

Total, unrelated NONSENSE. This is bad doctrine because NEVER does the bible ever say or imply that Jesus and Michael are the same person. It is one of the highest heresies and should be a banned topic at all Christian forums worldwide.

Look, people. This is NOT the teaching of the Jehovah's Witnesses. They teach that Michael is Christ, and Christ is not God, but an angel. Totally different View. The Scriptures teach and we affirm, that Michael "IS" the Chief Messenger Christ (Not an Angel), and Christ "IS" God.|

Michael means "Who is certainly or assuredly God." Jesus Christ. Not some created being with feather wings and having a long blonde hair that you have been brainwashed about.

And other thing to consider:

1Th 4:16
(16) For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Will Christ need some help from the angel to use his voice to rise the dead? No. Archangel means the chief messenger. And Christ "IS" the chief messenger. He is God who will shout with HIS VOICE and with the TRUMP of God. As it is written:

Joh 5:25
(25) Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

Only the voice of Jesus Christ will rise all the dead. Therefore, Christ is an archangel (chief messenger, not angel). Get this straight first before you understand who Archangel Michael really is!

Selah!

 

[CTK]

Your replies are lengthy and contain much detail but fail to address the point I briefly make. Can you briefly respond to what I've said: "If the 144,000 literally represent God's chosen witnesses at the end of time physically preaching the Good News as Paul did in the first century, only their mission as the final call for man to turn to God through Christ, why does John write they are with Christ on heavenly mount Sion as first fruits redeemed from men before the throne of God? They shall not become the first fruits unto God and the Lamb! They ARE the first fruits unto God and the Lamb, having already been redeemed from among men!"

This statement implies the first fruits unto God and the Lamb are not spiritual Jews living during the end of days. Since they are already the spiritual body of Christ in heavenly Jerusalem, they are in the heavenly realm of God being made spiritually alive after physical death when the Spirit of Christ came to seal them with spiritual life. That's why John writes they are (not shall be) redeemed from the earth having the Father's name written in their foreheads. "These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb."

I hope you agree that in Revelation as well as in Daniel, there are verses that shift between the heavenly realm and the earthly realm. In this case, regarding the 144,000 we have both.

From a literal point of view, we see in Revelation 7:3-4, "Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees until we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads." This144,000 are explicitly referred to as "servants of our God," indicating a specific group chosen for a unique purpose. And in Revelation 14:4, "These are the ones who have not been defiled with women, for they are virgins. They follow the Lamb wherever He goes." This detailed description of their purity and dedication to the Lamb suggests a distinct, literal group set apart for a mission.


But in a symbolic point of view, in Revelation 14.1, the Lamb (Christ) is seen on Mount Zion with the 144,000. Mount Zion In Scripture, this is often used symbolically to represent God’s eternal kingdom or His heavenly presence (e.g., Hebrews 12:22-23). It is not necessarily a literal geographic location but a depiction of God’s rule and victory. The 144,000 are "redeemed from the earth" and "follow the Lamb wherever He goes" (Revelation 14:4), suggesting their eternal fellowship with Christ. This points to a heavenly and victorious scene, where the 144,000 are securely with Christ in His kingdom

The 144,000 are described as blameless, pure, and redeemed, emphasizing their spiritual faithfulness. Their characteristics (e.g., singing a unique song, being first fruits to God) reflect the qualities of all faithful believers who endure to the end. Meaning, this is a scene given to us after the conflict. God is showing us what will definitely come to be.

• The throne of God, the Lamb, and Mount Zion are consistent with Revelation’s symbolic depiction of heavenly realities.
• The 144,000 are described as "first fruits to God and the Lamb" (Revelation 14:4). This term is often symbolic of those who are spiritually faithful and dedicated to God, representing the entirety of His redeemed people.
• They sing a song that only they can learn, symbolizing their unique experience of redemption and their special relationship with God.

It is a preview of ultimate victory, showing the end result of faithfulness and endurance through tribulation. The scene is intentionally placed before the unfolding of the final judgments (Revelation 14:6-20) to encourage believers by showing them the end goal.

 

[TribulationSigns]

I hope you agree that in Revelation as well as in Daniel, there are verses that shift between the heavenly realm and the earthly realm. In this case, regarding the 144,000 we have both.

From a literal point of view, we see in Revelation 7:3-4, "Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees until we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads." This144,000 are explicitly referred to as "servants of our God," indicating a specific group chosen for a unique purpose.

Tell me, what does God see the Earth, Sea and Tree as?

 

[CTK]

Tell me, what does God see the Earth, Sea and Tree as?

Why don't you tell me what you believe they represent and why in these texts.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Why don't you tell me what you believe they represent and why in these texts.

Why can't you answer the question asked to you first? I asked because you are the one who quoted the verse and made the claim that the 144,000 are the servants of God (which is correct) but why do you think God commanded the messengers not to harm the Earth, Sea, and Trees until all servants are sealed? And what does these represent? Do you understand this? Yes or no?

 

[CTK]

Why can't you answer the question asked to you first? I asked because you are the one who quoted the verse and made the claim that the 144,000 are the servants of God (which is correct) but why do you think God commanded the messengers not to harm the Earth, Sea, and Trees until all servants are sealed? And what does these represent? Do you understand this? Yes or no?

Of course I understand what they represent. Look forward to hearing your interpretations.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Of course I understand what they represent.

What do they represent, then? Speak up.

 

[FearTheLord]

Okay, I am currently reading / considering / studying chapter 7 of Revelation and came across the 144,000. Are there any thoughts on who these folks are and their mission? Thanks.

If you can't find a reference in the Old Testament for what is written in Revelation, just go with what the text says at face value. The 144,000 are literal men from 12 tribes of Israel, who believe in Christ and die for their faith. Everyone who believes in Christ during the 70th Week either goes dies a martyr or goes apostate.

 

[ewq1938]

Look, people. This is NOT the teaching of the Jehovah's Witnesses. They teach that Michael is Christ, and Christ is not God, but an angel. Totally different View. The Scriptures teach and we affirm, that Michael "IS" the Chief Messenger Christ (Not an Angel), and Christ "IS" God.|

Michael means "Who is certainly or assuredly God." Jesus Christ.

It's a heresy and is as bad as JW doctrine. Michael is not Christ or God.

Michael:

H4317
מִיכָאֵל
mı̂ykâ'êl
me-kaw-ale'
From H4310 and (the prefixed derivation from) H3588 and H410; who (is) like God?; Mikael, the name of an archangel and of nine Israelites: - Michael.
Total KJV occurrences: 13

Who is like God is a question not a statementy that Michael is God. There are humans named Michael in the bible and they aren't Jesus either.

 

[TribulationSigns]

It's a heresy and is as bad as JW doctrine. Michael is not Christ or God.

Red Herrings Alert

Michael:

H4317
מִיכָאֵל
mı̂ykâ'êl
me-kaw-ale'
From H4310 and (the prefixed derivation from) H3588 and H410; who (is) like God?; Mikael, the name of an archangel and of nine Israelites: - Michael.
Total KJV occurrences: 13

Who is like God is a question not a statementy that Michael is God. There are humans named Michael in the bible and they aren't Jesus either.

Oh yes, Jesus "is" Archangel Michael. Often we read of an Angel of the Lord appearing, and these are decidedly not angels. They are God Himself coming with a message. Theologians call these Theophanies, but they are no different from Michael the Messenger of the Lord. The name or title Michael itself also bears testimony to this. Michael means "Who is certainly or assuredly God." Christ is the guardian of His people, covenant Israel! Selah!

The "Bible" never said that Michael was an Angel or a Arch or Chief Angel. Man translating the Bible said that. What you may not understand is those are man's words, not something actually found in the divine and infallible Scriptures. Christ is not the Angel of the Covenant, He is the Messenger of the Covenant. Moreover, shall the fact that translators of the Bible say not only that Michael was an Angel, but translated God and Christ as Angels as well, prove God or Christ an Angel? They weren't Angels were they? No, the translations were wrong. That should be your first clue that the actual word is NOT Angel. Since we all know neither God the father, nor God the Son is a Angel. THEREFORE, the translation of the Hebrew word [mal'ak] or Greek word [aggelos] (both mean messenger) as Angel is incorrect, isn't it? Now an angel "can be" a Messenger of God, but [mal'ak] and [aggelos] are absolutely 100% not the word Angel. Look it up:

DRB
Malachi 3:1 (John 1:6-13)
Behold I send my angel [mal'ak], and he shall prepare the way before my face. And presently the Lord, whom you seek, and the angel of the testament, whom you desire, shall come to his temple. Behold he cometh, saith the Lord of hosts.

YLT
Malachi 3:1 (John 1:6-13)
Lo, I am sending My messenger [mal'ak], And he hath prepared a way before Me, And suddenly come in unto his temple Doth the Lord whom ye are seeking, Even the messenger of the covenant, Whom ye are desiring, Lo, he is coming, said Jehovah of Hosts.

Why does one translation translate this word Angel and another translate it Messenger? Because the YLT translator literally rendered (transliterated) it to the actual word/meaning that was in the Scriptures, and the DRB translater is making a presumption and translated it "angel," despite both the clear meaning of the word itself, the context and content that clearly negates such a translation. In short, the Hebrew word in Old Testament Scripture is mal'ak (messenger) and decidedly not a Greek word Angel. Neither is the Greek word in the New Testament Angel, but [aggelos], also meaning messenger. So by any sound, sober, scholarly examination of the Biblical facts, Michael is never called a chief angel in the original manuscripts, but the chief Messenger.

i.e., the Bible actually says Michael was the Chief Messenger. I accept that as infallible truth!

Now look at Hebrew 1:13.

Heb 1:13
(13) But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?

"But to which of the messengers said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?"

The answer is none, since none were the Chief Messenger except Michael, the Messenger of the Covenant who stood up for the people, who fought with the Dragon and His army (Revelation 12) and who gave His army of messengers, His people, the victory over Him by His shed blood. You see it is we (God's Children) who are soldiers in the army of the Lord, and our weapons and shields are spiritual, not carnal. We are all more than conquerors in Christ Jesus. I know you don't require Scripture, but here it is anyway.

Revelation 12:7-11

• "And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
• And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
• And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
• And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
• And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death."

Sounds like the angels fighting in literal Heaven? Perish the thought! They are not getting the physical victory by Christ's death, the messengers of the Kingdom are getting the Spiritual victory by Christ's shed blood. Satan and His children accused Christ (John 8:6) and argued about the body of Moses with Him, and with this victory the accuser of them is cast down. In other words, this warfare (whatever you might think it is), was won by Christ going to the cross. It's not a literal battle of literal angels in literal heaven (God Forbid) as some suppose, but is the stuff of bad movies, Televangelist, sloppy exegesis, and of course, false Eschatology doctrines. We, Elect, are Christ's messengers, not angels!

 

[ewq1938]

Oh yes, Jesus "is" Archangel Michael.

Heresy alert.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Heresy alert.

LOL. I see that you can't gainsay or resist my last post. Not surprised. The Lord Judges and I am comfortable with that.

 

[ewq1938]

LOL. I see that you can't gainsay or resist my last post. Not surprised. The Lord Judges and I am comfortable with that.

A post full of heresy should not be read, or posted.

 

[rwb]

I hope you agree that in Revelation as well as in Daniel, there are verses that shift between the heavenly realm and the earthly realm. In this case, regarding the 144,000 we have both.

This is opinion without biblical proof texts. While I agree that Rev & Dan speak of both things of heaven and earth, I don't believe the 144,000 should be interpreted as being on the earth since they are located in the heavenly realm of God after they have physically died. That is where only as spirit we reside with Christ and an innumerable company of angels. We know this because the text tells us they are on Mount Sion with the slain Lamb. To read this as Mt Zion of the earth would make no sense. They are a spiritual body alive with Christ in heaven, because after our body dies, our spirit returns to the Father just as the spirit of Christ ascended to heaven when His body breathed its last. (Ecc 12:7 & Lu 23:46)

Spiritually, not physically we (our spirit/soul) belong to Christ eternally when we are born again. Even before we die our spirit has been made perfect through the Spirit of Christ within us, that our spirit shall never die. That's why as spiritual body we ascend to heaven, (1Cor 15:44-50) the heavenly Jerusalem with the angels of God there. It is only our spirit that can ascend to heaven when our body dies because our body shall not be resurrected immortal and incorruptible until the hour coming when the last trumpet sounds. (Jo 5:28-29 & Rev 10:5-7)

Hebrews 12:22-24 (KJV) But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

The New Jerusalem is where, as spiritual body of Christ, we saints shall spiritually dwell until the first heaven and earth passes away. Then we, the holy city New Jerusalem shall come down to the new heaven and new earth as a bride adorned for her husband. After physical death none who are with Christ shall be resurrected to life again to inhabit this earth. (Rev 21:1-5) For this reason the 144,000 are seen in heaven and not on Mt Zion of this earth.