Exploring Trinitarian Logic

[ProDeo]

@ProDeo

This is one of the questions I had for Johann but he couldnt provide an answer, maybe you would like to give it a try?

It was the power of the Most High that "overshadowed" Mary (Luke 1:35). However, if the Holy Spirit were considered a Person within the Godhead, then it would be the Holy Spirit, rather than the Father, who would be the true father of Jesus.

Correct?

F2F

Luke 1:35 And the angel answered her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy— the Son of God.
Luke 1:36 And behold, your relative Elizabeth in her old age has also conceived a son, and this is the sixth month with her who was called barren.
Luke 1:37 For nothing will be impossible with God.”

Trying to understand the supernatural?

Good luck with that.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

he's a Trinitarian as you.

So WHO is it that you are denying? The Father? The Son?? The Holy Ghost???

Ever see all the scriptures about the Father?
Ever see all the scriptures about the Jesus?
Ever see all the scriptures about the Holy Spirit?

Pretty hard to explain away something scripture clearly tells us which is... One is Three, and the Three are One.

In fact.... you and I are three that is one (we are a spirit, we possess a soul, and we live in a body)

1 Thessalonians 5:23
And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

After all... the Lord did create man in His Own Image.

Genesis 1:26
God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness

That's the Father, the Word, and the Spirit saying "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness"

Those not accepting what the scripture is clearly telling us must be
using one of them funky modern new age "bibles" er something

Trying to understand the supernatural?

Good luck with that.

We don't need to understand it fully... that comes later.

We just need to accept what the Lord says.

 

[Wrangler]

He is god with a lower-case g.

Implying he is NOT God with a capital-G, right?

Agreed but that is not the sense of the word people get excited about.

 

[ProDeo]

Let me help you here...

Ananias may not have realized that his actions were a lie to God, but all sin, whether large or small, is a violation of the divine law of obedience and truth (see Jas. 2:10; Psa. 51:4). He had intended to offer to God and had apparently made this clear to the ecclesia (Acts 5:1), but then changed his mind and secretly kept part for himself (v. 2). To ignore this deception would have undermined God's power and authority, symbolized here as the "Holy Spirit" (Jn. 6:63). The Holy Spirit serves as a heart-searcher (Acts 1:24), probing the motives and emotions in line with the divine Word (Heb. 4:12).

God cannot be separated from His Spirit Power Pro! It is Him, comes from Him and is an expression of His Will and Purpose.

If you thought this section teaches the HS as a person you are mistaken.

F2F

The Holy Spirit is addressed as a PERSON in many verses, Acts 5:3 is just one example.

 

[face2face]

Now please answer post 1682 if you fully understand the Godhead and indeed move on.

Like Christ, in his love, he gave "hard saying's", which if received would bring about a repentant change.

Did ask a question in post 1682?

F2F

 

[ProDeo]

Did ask a question in post 1682?

F2F

I take that as a yes.

 

[face2face]

The Holy Spirit is addressed as a PERSON in many verses, Acts 5:3 is just one example.

Study personification and how its used in the OT and NT - this will help

 

[face2face]

I take that as a yes.

You did ask a question in that post or you didnt?

 

[face2face]

Luke 1:35 And the angel answered her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy— the Son of God.
Luke 1:36 And behold, your relative Elizabeth in her old age has also conceived a son, and this is the sixth month with her who was called barren.
Luke 1:37 For nothing will be impossible with God.”

Trying to understand the supernatural?

Good luck with that.

So from this you believe the HS is the father and not God the Father?

Or are you confirming the true belief that the HS is the Power of the Most High God (highlighted green!?)

You are not being clear, or are you confused by your own teaching?

F2F

 

[ProDeo]

You did ask a question in that post or you didnt?

That's the question.

 

[face2face]

Trying to understand the supernatural?

Good luck with that.

Ah I get you are back to "it can't be known or understood" which is the Trinitarian catch cry!

The conversation ends for you with disappointment but for me with understanding.

Ever has it been the way for Trinitairans

F2F

 

[face2face]

That's the question.

The whole post is a question?

Why not try asking a thoughtful question, similar to the one I asked you about the Holy Spirit overshadowing Mary?

If you're making a statement, that's fine, but if it's false and doesn't lead to the truth, what is its value?

F2F

 

[Dan Clarkston]

Ever has it been the way for Trinitairans

So, what's the way of those that don't believe what God says about Himself in His Word?

Continue wandering around aimlessly in the wilderness?

 

[ProDeo]

So from this you believe the HS is the father and not God the Father?

Or are you confirming the true belief that the HS is the Power of the Most High God (highlighted green!?)

You are not being clear, or are you confused by your own teaching?

F2F

I can't help if you don't see the deep spiritual meaning of the supernatural and holy event.

As the angel aware of the unusual message said to Mary - For nothing will be impossible with God.

And there you go with your logical western mind.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

And there you go with your logical western mind.

What about the northern mind? The southern mind, and the eastern mind??

How do peoples on the equator think 'bout this... you know, the round mind?

 

[face2face]

So, what's the way of those that don't believe what God says about Himself in His Word?

Continue wandering around aimlessly in the wilderness?

The wilderness is a good analogy for a life of probation which we all are on!

What we have found in this discussion is the limitations of the Trinity are serious enough to rob a person of a true understanding of the following:

1 The true Godhead - Almighty God (single Person)
2 Christ's nature and the Victory through that nature
3 Christ's role as mediator
4 The HS function and purpose
5 The manifestation of God through His Mighty Ones (angels and Saints alike)

Most importantly above all of these is the Atonement and its reconciling principles which are totally lost on Trinitarians.

So the wilderness wanderings might not apply - God will be the judge.

F2F

 

[ProDeo]

The whole post is a question?

Why not try asking a thoughtful question, similar to the one I asked you about the Holy Spirit overshadowing Mary?

If you're making a statement, that's fine, but if it's false and doesn't lead to the truth, what is its value?

F2F

There was a question, let's stop the ping pong.

 

[ProDeo]

What about the northern mind? The southern mind, and the eastern mind??

How do peoples on the equator think 'bout this... you know, the round mind?

Oh, the eastern mind, Asia in particular is very spiritual, a bit too much to my taste

 

[face2face]

I can't help if you don't see the deep spiritual meaning of the supernatural and holy event.

As the angel aware of the unusual message said to Mary - For nothing will be impossible with God.

And there you go with your logical western mind.

Your avoidance of the question is okay if you admit to it!

You could say "I don't know, it does seem odd" or "what do you think it means?" or "I've never thought about it" and so on...

But no, you show your ignorance once again thinking the "supernatural" cannot be known and my interpretation is western?

Can you see the irony?

The Trinitarian takes pride in the "unknown," while the Westerner, who has shown you that the Holy Spirit is the "Power of the Most High" as clearly stated in the text, prefers to disregard that in favor of a mystery!

@Wrangler @APAK - have a guess how much Bible text Pro could explain away as "supernatural" and that which is "unknown" However, how many verses could Pro uses to force Trinitarian dogma which is known?

Wow - its a doozy!

F2F

 

[face2face]

Please let me know if you understand what the Godhead is about.

I've shown you many times

Mark 12:29-30 (NIV):

"The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.'"

Deuteronomy 6:4-5 (NIV):

"Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength."