Exploring Trinitarian Logic

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amigo de christo

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If the Son isn't God, the Father isn't either.
When i describe the very words of men WHO KNEW HIM
you tell me WHO this sounds like .
When speaking of JESUS
it is written , HE was before all that was was created and by HIM were all things created . WHO DO THAT SOUND LIKE SISTER .
As a christain wrote long , long ago , speculated at least a thousand years
One wrote HE came to die on a cross made of wood
and yet had made the hill on which it stood . THAT THERE christain was RIGHT sister . march on sister . march on in the LORD .
 

face2face

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If the Son isn't God, the Father isn't either.
Lol - this type of flawed logic could work if the Father isn't always attributed as being God.

Truth is Father is God and the Son is not the Father or God.

"For since the creation of the world God's invisible things are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead

The ONENESS of God is from the creation of the World so you are without excuse!

F2F
 

amigo de christo

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If the Son isn't God, the Father isn't either.
Stand firm in the LORD dear sister . we have many at work these days who do all
to bring JESUS down to the level of but a man and a prophet . FOR SICK reasons sister .
Many want to merge these religoins and IF JESUS IS WHO HE IS , IT cannot be done .
THEY HAVE to remove the idea OF WHO HE truly is in order to make him as just another prophet
like satans right hand man muhammed , and budda junk . GOD wont be denied .
 
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face2face

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Stand firm in the LORD dear sister . we have many at work these days who do all
to bring JESUS down to the level of but a man and a prophet
You discard the most important aspect of the Master for the sole purpose of elavating him beyond his present position. Strange how believers can justify this.

The Son of Man

This title embraces the work of God in Jesus as does no other idea! By way of statistics, “[the] Son of Man” appears some eighty times in the Gospels, in all but two of which (Mark 2:10; John 12:34) as a self-designation by Jesus.

Failure to understand the title and how Jesus represented us in every respect sits with you and you alone.

F2F
 
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amigo de christo

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You discard the most important aspect of the Master for the sole purpose of elavating him beyond his present position. Strange how believers can justify this.

The Son of Man

This title embraces the work of God in Jesus as does no other idea! By way of statistics, “[the] Son of Man” appears some eighty times in the Gospels, in all but two of which (Mark 2:10; John 12:34) as a self-designation by Jesus.

Failure to understand the title and how Jesus represented us in every respect sits with you and you alone.

F2F
to follow interfaith is to follow satan . keep that in mind the next time this pope lips his lies .
 
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face2face

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For everyone else....The divine voice that speaks to Ezekiel addresses him over ninety times as “son of man” (= “O human being”), a term that highlights the contrast between the heavenly message and the mortal recipient. More pertinently, in the Aramaic of Dan 7:13 “one like a son of man” (contrasted to the beasts used as symbols of the pagan powers) enters the discussion—a human being who is a symbol of Israel and given dominion, glory, and kingdom (basileia).

Trinitarians know not the Man.

F2F
 

amigo de christo

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For everyone else....The divine voice that speaks to Ezekiel addresses him over ninety times as “son of man” (= “O human being”), a term that highlights the contrast between the heavenly message and the mortal recipient. More pertinently, in the Aramaic of Dan 7:13 “one like a son of man” (contrasted to the beasts used as symbols of the pagan powers) enters the discussion—a human being who is a symbol of Israel and given dominion, glory, and kingdom (basileia).

Trinitarians know not the Man.

F2F
pope francis and his interfaith groupies KNOW NOT THE GOD OR HIS CHRIST . keep that in mind .
 
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face2face

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to follow interfaith is to follow satan . keep that in mind the next time this pope lips his lies .
The issue, is not just your inability to believe in the Son of Man, but your inability to even acknowledge (discuss) him as such.

It's as if you only want to understand the Divine without recognizing how He became Divine. Rejecting the Son of Man is ultimately rejecting the Glorified Christ.

And that's truly something to be saddened about.

F2F
 

amigo de christo

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The issue, is not just your inability to believe in the Son of Man, but your inability to even acknowledge (discuss) him as such.

It's as if you only want to understand the Divine without recognizing how He became Divine. Rejecting the Son of Man is ultimately rejecting the Glorified Christ.

And that's truly something to be saddened about.

F2F
many always want to try and discuss meats , and yet many dont even preach the one true gosple anymore .
BUD if one follows intefaith and its lovey do lie , THEN what would it matter .
I need to hear some words come from you my friend .
Interfaith is of anti christ . now if you can lip that , we can discuss other things .
And if you dont know what interfaith is , I CAN BRING you a video that shows us ITS OF ANTI CHRIST big TIME .
 
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face2face

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Do you know the irony of this title Son of Man is that in thirteen passages in John and as mentioned by @Wrangler last week the Gospel of John would have to be the most anti-trinitarian Gospel book we have and yet look at what they do to it!

F2F
 
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amigo de christo

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Howdy wrangler , ready to make some money , BET ON AMIGO that he will expose intefaith . LOL
feed them five hungry kiddos . but better would it have been , had you just joined me and helped me in this fight
to contend for the one true faith .
 
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Brakelite

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I would says its more that their own language. They reinvented new meanings from words of their own language to suit their own created doctrines. And this word monogenes simply means: came in to existence for a source, or created, or made, came forth from a creator. And adding ideas with new meanings of this word, such as being unique, maybe true although its not the meaning of the word. And especially does not mean not-made unmade.
Abraham has a only begotten son, Isaac.
Adam would be considered technically a begotten human being by God, and made not by/with a women, as the 2nd Adam.

I leave you with another Kiwi as another reference here..

"The Nicene creed was written by men and for men with political motives so it is not worth questioning their reasoning on the ‘not made’ statement."

Jesus was begotten of God in terms of his birth as recorded in the gospels but he also had to earn his title as ‘son of God’ by declaring God’s purpose in his life of righteousness (Romans 1:4).

When Jesus was baptised there was a declaration from heaven “This is my beloved son in whom I am well pleased.” It was his action in being baptised (to symbolise his death and resurrection) which prompted the edict from above.

‘Begotten’ is nothing to do with the teachings of men about the supposed triune nature of God and Jesus.

They really are father and son."
I can live with that, the question i differ on is when was Jesus begotten? I have a mind to accept the scriptures as they read...
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” John 3:16
“He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.” John 3:18

It's only logical to believe that if the scripture says God sent His Son, therefore God had a Son to send.

Amongst various scholars there is a consensus of opinion that the words found in the above two verses were not spoken by Jesus. This is because these scholars regard Christ’s conversation with Nicodemus as ending at verse 15. Whilst I am not going to debate this issue here, it is true to say that whichever way this is viewed, it does not detract from the fact that the Holy Spirit inspired John to write these words. This means that even if they were only John’s comments, they are as true as if Jesus Himself had spoken them.
John also wrote in one of his pastoral letters
“In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.” 1 John 4:9
On two occasions with His own voice, God confirmed Christ’s Sonship to Himself. The first was at the baptism of Jesus. The second was at His transfiguration
“And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” Matthew 3:17
“While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.” Matthew 17:5

From the above it can be seen that this Sonship was not because of Christ’s human birth at Bethlehem, not is it a result of the resurrection, but because of His pre-existent relationship with God. To put it another way: According to the Word of God, Christ had a pre-existent Sonship.
 

Brakelite

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Begotten’ is nothing to do with the teachings of men about the supposed triune nature of God and Jesus.
No, wrong. It had nothing to do with the trinity. It's about the relationship between Father and Son. Begotten, when used in scripture, was used exclusively to describe generational birth. John was the only one to use the word in relation to Jesus. John knew what the word meant, and as you say, he used it to prove that Jesus was truly the literal Son of God, as opposed to the several heretical theories that were floating around at that time last in the 1st century.
 

face2face

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Begotten means created, as all sons are, by definition.
As Brakelite is finding its essential for his salvation!

I think a better phrase is he was "made" sin for us.

There are four scriptural expressions applied to Christ that those who struggle to accept the key truth about Christ's offering "first for himself" often have difficulty with. These expressions are typically handled cautiously or are painstakingly explained away. They include: "sinful flesh," "sin in the flesh," "made sin," and "our sins in his own body" (Romans 8:3; 2 Corinthians 5:21; 1 Peter 2:24)

The reason for these phrases is that he was offered as a sin sacrifice; and that, since this sacrifice was made by a Holy One who committed no sin, yet "died to sin" (Romans 6:10), sin was condemned in human nature, and so could be removed from it—through the risen Savior—fully satisfying God's justice & righteosness.

This Brakelike is how the first Apostle's viewed the Son of God and his nature.

For you to discover truth you will need to look into your own nature and that of Christs to better understand the need for sin to be condemned in a sinless sacrifice.

25 God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— 26 he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus. Rom 3:25-26

The focal point of this condemning of sin is found in Jesus!

Once your eyes are set on this focus then I have no reason to disprove pre-existence because Christ was born of a woman, died, raised and now lives forever more.

The question you need to consider is: What kind of sin offering would be acceptable in God's (Yahweh's) eyes? And why was it absolutely necessary for Jesus to have our human nature? If Jesus were fully man without any of the Divine attributes of God's Spirit Nature, would this be a victory worthy of praise? And would Christ be deserving of His exalted position in the heavens (more so than if he was already a god or God)?

All I can do is encourage you to look into the OT & NT records to find the Christ - The Son of Man and in doing so you will find the Son of God.

F2F
 
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