Exploring Trinitarian Logic

[Behold]

Here is the simple answer; The trinity is not in the Bible.

Its true that "the Trinity" ............ this phrase is not found in the Bible.

But its also true that a Handgun.. .this item is also not found in the bible.
So, does that mean that the Trinity, and a handgun do not exist?

Here is how we understand that God is a Triune Being.

Just do this simple math..

God said....>>>"Let US.........make man..........in OUR image".

So, how many is "US and "OUR".. who have the power of Creation?
And we know that Jesus has it, as John 1:10 says that Jesus "made the world"..

So, HE is the Pre-incarnate that is the 2nd one in ... "OUR".. and "US">.

See that?

"Our" and US" is 2.

Now add in the Holy Spirit.

That is 3.....3>ONE.

 

[Johann]

Its true that "the Trinity" ............ this phrase is not found in the Bible.

But its also true that a Handgun.. .this item is also not found in the bible.
So, does that mean that the Trinity, and a handgun do not exist?

Here is how we understand that God is a Triune Being.

Just do this simple math..

God said....>>>"Let US.........make man..........in OUR image".

So, how many is "US and "OUR".. who have the power of Creation?
And we know that Jesus has it, as John 1:10 says that Jesus "made the world"..

So, HE is the Pre-incarnate that is the 2nd one in ... "OUR".. and "US">.

See that?

"Our" and US" is 2.

Now add in the Holy Spirit.

That is 3.....3>ONE.

3, yet echad.

J.

 

[ProDeo]

You are here to debate the other camp-not attack them with ad hominems.

J.

Those who need insults to make a point, have no point.

 

[Johann]

Those who need insults to make a point, have no point.

Absolutely correct.

J.

 

[Magdala]

Problem: water cannot exist in three "states" (solid, liquid, and vapor) SIMULTANEOUSLY. But God exists in three "persons" (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) simultaneously. Unlike water states, two of the three "persons" don't cease to exist as such whenever the third is present. So the analogy limps.

Why didn't you quote the part of my post where I already said that water isn't an exact comparison? And, the point of the comparison is the fact that water exists in three states at all, each distinct, united as one because they are the same substance. God exists in three Persons, each distinct, united as one because They are the same Essence: love.

 

[Behold]

3, yet echad.

J.

Its strange, or perhaps its just a lack of wanting to understand.. that causes some religious people to not be able to SEE that God isn't the only Tri-Part situation.

There are many..

For example.......a Human is a Body, Soul, and Spirit. = 3>1

And EGG is a shell, the liquid protein part, and a yoke.. = 3>1

The SUN is... Heat, Light, and UV ray..... = 3>1


And God is also a 3>1

Its really not difficult to understand all this.......unless someone's mind was trained by a Trinity Hater to disagree.

 

[Johann]

Its strange, or perhaps its just a lack of wanting to understand.. that causes some religious people to not be able to SEE that God isn't the only Tri-Part situation.

There are many..

For example.......a Human is a Body, Soul, and Spirit. = 3>1

And EGG is a shell, the liquid protein part, and a yoke.. = 3>1

The SUN is... Heat, Light, and UV ray..... = 3>1


And God is also a 3>1

Its really not difficult to understand all this.......unless someone's mind was trained by a Trinity Hater to disagree.

Correct and I have never seen such animosity against the Triune Godhead and yet the Shema is intact.

We quote the Scripture to make the case and they are all over BUT the Scripture.

We are in the last days brother.

Shalom.

J.

 

[Johann]

Why didn't you quote the part of my post where I said that water isn't an exact comparison? And, the point of the comparison is the fact that water exists in three states at all and they are united as one because they are the same substance. God exists in three Persons and They are united as one because They are the same Essence: love.

Do you have quotes from the ECF's re the Triune Godhead?

J.

 

[APAK]

John 10:18

"No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father."
Matthew 12:40

"For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."
Matthew 17:9

"And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead."
Matthew 26:32

"But after I am risen again, I will go before you into Galilee."
Mark 8:31

"And he began to teach them, that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders, and of the chief priests, and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again."
Mark 9:31

"For he taught his disciples, and said unto them, The Son of man is delivered into the hands of men, and they shall kill him; and after that he is killed, he shall rise the third day."
Mark 10:34

"And they shall mock him, and shall scourge him, and shall spit upon him, and shall kill him: and the third day he shall rise again."
Mark 14:28

"But after that I am risen, I will go before you into Galilee."
Luke 9:22

"Saying, The Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be slain, and be raised the third day."
Luke 18:33

"And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again."
Luke 24:7

"Saying, The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again."
John 2:19

"Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up."
John 2:21

"But he spake of the temple of his body."
John 10:11

"I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep."
John 10:17

"Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again."
John 11:25

"Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live."
John 12:32

"And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me."
John 14:19

"Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also."
John 16:16

"A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me, because I go to the Father."

I would advise exercising caution with this individual. @Lizbeth.

Keep the faith.

J.

Funny how you go to a great length to deliberately ignore or avoid and disguise the real truth in the verse Liz presented, as you then protracted this major omission by listing other verses in the same general vein, that included the essential Father, who is God. To give the impression that Jesus was YHWH with is power, or some other silly idea.

If you can somehow get your Triune lens of your eyes, you can clearly see that Jesus obtained his power, by command or his word and spirit, as he always did - via his Father, who is the one God.

Omission is a form of lying don't you know....

Again, Christ rose because of the command provided to him with/of the power from the Father, as he also provided for him to perform other miracles and raise his friend Lazareth.

 

[Scott Downey]

Problem: water cannot exist in three "states" (solid, liquid, and vapor) SIMULTANEOUSLY. But God exists in three "persons" (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) simultaneously. Unlike water states, two of the three "persons" don't cease to exist as such whenever the third is present. So the analogy limps.

Yes, God is not modalism.

 

[Scott Downey]

It's an interesting thought. The NT is rife with verses suggesting that God raised Jesus, not that Jesus raised himself. Equating the two based solely on John 10:18 just seems a bit of a stretch to me.

More than that.
John 2
18 So the Jews answered and said to Him, “What sign do You show to us, since You do these things?”

19 Jesus answered and said to them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”

20 Then the Jews said, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?”

21 But He was speaking of the temple of His body. 22 Therefore, when He had risen from the dead, His disciples remembered that He had said this [d]to them; and they believed the Scripture and the word which Jesus had said.


Mark 14:58
“We heard Him say, ‘I will destroy this temple made with hands, and within three days I will build another made without hands.’ ”

 

[RedFan]

Why didn't you quote the part of my post where I said that water isn't an exact comparison? And, the point of the comparison is the fact that water exists in three states at all and they are united as one because they are the same substance. God exists in three Persons and They are united as one because They are the same Essence: love.

Because I'm not seeing the comparison at all, exact or inexact. H2O can be solid, liquid or vapor depending on temperature and pressure. How is the substance of water -- in any of its physical forms -- remotely analogous to the substance of God? After all, the "persons" of the Trinity are not forms of God.

 

[Scott Downey]

Can a man blaspheme just a man?

Mark 15:29
And those who passed by blasphemed Him, wagging their heads and saying, “Aha! You who destroy the temple and build it in three days,

 

[Wrangler]

Its true that "the Trinity" ............ this phrase is not found in the Bible.

Appeal to Strawman. I did not say the word or phrase. I said the simple truth, the trinity* is not in the Bible.




* To be clear, when I write that the trinity is not found anywhere in Scripture, I mean that neither the word nor the concept of the trinity is explicitly in the Bible. To avoid the inevitable Appeal to Strawman, there simply is no verse that reads something like The nature of God is a trinity -
consisting of the Father, Son & Holy Spirit who are co-equal, co-substantial and co-eternal - and if you do not believe this, you cannot be saved but are damned to hell forever. If there
were such a verse, it would be the most quoted verse in Scripture by those who claim one’s salvation depends on believing it. The concept of the trinity is so important that in 66 books, it is not mentioned once!

 

[Scott Downey]

The King on a Cross​

21 Then they compelled a certain man, Simon a Cyrenian, the father of Alexander and Rufus, as he was coming out of the country and passing by, to bear His cross. 22 And they brought Him to the place Golgotha, which is translated, Place of a Skull. 23 Then they gave Him wine mingled with myrrh to drink, but He did not take it. 24 And when they crucified Him, they divided His garments, casting lots for them to determine what every man should take.

25 Now it was the third hour, and they crucified Him. 26 And the inscription of His [d]accusation was written above:

THE KING OF THE JEWS.

27 With Him they also crucified two robbers, one on His right and the other on His left. 28 [e]So the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “And He was numbered with the transgressors.”

29 And those who passed by blasphemed Him, wagging their heads and saying, “Aha! You who destroy the temple and build it in three days, 30 save Yourself, and come down from the cross!”

31 Likewise the chief priests also, mocking among themselves with the scribes, said, “He saved others; Himself He cannot save. 32 Let the Christ, the King of Israel, descend now from the cross, that we may see and [f]believe.”

Even those who were crucified with Him reviled Him.

 

[Behold]

Appeal to Strawman. I did not say the word or phrase. I said the simple truth, the trinity* is not in the Bible.

John 1:10 says that Jesus "made the World".

So when did that happen?

It happened when "God Spoke creation into existence" by His Words...and Pre-incarnate "Jesus is the Word of God"... who "became flesh".

 

[Wrangler]

But its also true that a Handgun.. .this item is also not found in the bible.
So, does that mean that the Trinity, and a handgun do not exist?

Appeal to Diversion. You cannot compare a timeless concept, like trinity, to a time dependent technology, like a type of weapon.

At least, it is good that you admit the trinity does not exist in Scripture. I don’t feel the need to speculate contrary to what Scripture teaches. Why do you?


“Hear, O Israel! Yahweh is our God, Yahweh alone!
The beginning of the Sh’ma, the most important commandment according to Jesus Christ

 

[Behold]

Appeal to Diversion.

Am i talking to St.Steven who never uses a bible, because he believes that its created by "errors"?

Listen.

John 1:10 says that Jesus '"made the world."""

This is supported by Colossians 1:16

That is not a mistranslation of the "original koine greek".

That verse is a fact, regarding the Word who Was GOD, in Jn 1, being the same as "US and OUR" in Genesis.

 

[Wrangler]

John 1:10 says that Jesus "made the World".

No, that’s not what the verse says at all.
He was in the world, and the world came to be through him, and yet the world did not know him

That you have to misrepresent what Scripture teaches shows the weakness of your position.

 

[Behold]

the world came to be through him,

"The world came to be..... (caused to exist)....through HIM">.

Who is Him, in the verse?

A.) Jesus