OSAS : Gnostic Heresy

[Eternally Grateful]

Labels are a problem. OSAS assumes life is a static pass or fail done at any point in life.

the base means of eternal security is the fact that no one passes, we have all failed. so where do you get your thinking from? and I agree, Labels are a problem. Labeling people OSAS is a huge problem. lets just look to the word

It is devoid of love, relationship or transformation of the heart and soul.

lol. It is what?

It only works in a safe caring society where insecurity dominates in peoples minds and their lives are simple and mundane.
Once you live in a sinful, chaotic society it is simply absurd and rubbish.

I would describe it as the biggest religious con trick, like splashing oneself with something and everything is ok.
Jesus condemned the religious leaders for attempting this with John the Baptist.

Everything is not ok. the biggest con is that you can save yourself. and you can pass the mustard and you can be righteous enough that God will allow you entrance to heaven.

That is not only a false hope. it is a self righteous self condemning hope. because it thinks it is ok, when it is not.

The immature think the reflection in the mirror is what counts,

Yes, this is what legalism teaches.. Not OSAS

not realising though our bodies are fallen,
in Christ we can choose to love and train our emotions to respond appropriately, because we know our weaknesses
and strengths and can choose to respond appropriately though we hurt, are upset and do not understand, but know
the King of Kings and His love working through us to others through forgiveness.

God bless you

Yes. and this is exactly what those who believe in eternal security understand..

 

[WalkInLight]

the base means of eternal security is the fact that no one passes, we have all failed. so where do you get your thinking from? and I agree, Labels are a problem. Labeling people OSAS is a huge problem. lets just look to the word

lol. It is what?

Everything is not ok. the biggest con is that you can save yourself. and you can pass the mustard and you can be righteous enough that God will allow you entrance to heaven.

That is not only a false hope. it is a self righteous self condemning hope. because it thinks it is ok, when it is not.

Yes, this is what legalism teaches.. Not OSAS



Yes. and this is exactly what those who believe in eternal security understand..

Jesus talks about a spiritual divide between those born from on High and everyone else.

The problem with forums is this is not a theology or argument, but a spiritual reality.
Jesus emphasised the fruit of staying in His word and knowing Him.

I would express this as openness, peace and forgiveness.
The apostles realised the walk changes us, and we do not have to prove or persuade just witness
to the light within us shining out.

Jesus said simply to His enemies, if you loved God you would love me.
It is something of the heart, that senses life and Jesus's reality of being from God, of being God.
So I say to those who know this in their hearts Amen, and to everyone God bless you all.

 

[WalkInLight]

Is the following your understanding of the body of sin?

“THE BODY OF SIN” (ROMANS 6:6) — PART ONE | Jack Cottrell

jackcottrell.com

I have thought about the arguments about sin.
John the baptist came with baptism for the forgiveness of sin.
Jesus forgave peoples sins by saying they were forgiven.

Isaiah had his sin atoned for.

So it is not a problem forgiving sin. Sin is a consequence of not being one with God.

The temple offered sacrifices for sin all the time, so it was about staying faithful and accepting
being washed and changed by our walk with God.

Paul said we should aim at perfection.
So our forgiveness and atonement is to enable the walk, the coming of oneness.

So two aspects arise, forgiveness of sin and oneness. The forgiveness is the door or gate,
the oneness is the eternal reality.

If believers deny the oneness no matter how faint or small, then they have no part of Jesus.
OSAS seems to accept a washing, like being cleansed once is perfect transformation, while the
oneness is only when we see the Lord face to face.

Emotions and our walk define us. How people deal with the Lord today is what they will face
when it is face to face tomorrow. Sadly their complaining hearts and stubborn wills will cause
a rejection of the King like night and day. How can light be more clear? Either you know it
in your heart or its just an anxious dream you hope will be true, but you know its fake.

If anyone wants a light on this reality, who is Trump and is he righteous, a prophet?

Why and how people answer this shouts where they are. God bless you

So many professing believers do not know the Lord or His ways, it is that simple.

 

[GodsGrace]

I have thought about the arguments about sin.
John the baptist came with baptism for the forgiveness of sin.
Jesus forgave peoples sins by saying they were forgiven.

Isaiah had his sin atoned for.

Isn't it interesting that what you posted above is true in each case even of today.
John baptized for the forgiveness of sin.
Jesus baptized for the forgiveness of sin. Acts 2:38, Acts 22:16
Isaiah had his sins atoned for --- just as we all do.

So it is not a problem forgiving sin. Sin is a consequence of not being one with God.

Jesus said He was one with God.
Are we one with God?
Does this go beyond our being in Christ or Christ being in us?

The temple offered sacrifices for sin all the time, so it was about staying faithful and accepting
being washed and changed by our walk with God.

Paul said we should aim at perfection.
So our forgiveness and atonement is to enable the walk, the coming of oneness.

I agree, but not sure what you mean by oneness.

So two aspects arise, forgiveness of sin and oneness. The forgiveness is the door or gate,
the oneness is the eternal reality.

I'm thinking you might be in a oneness church...
??

If believers deny the oneness no matter how faint or small, then they have no part of Jesus.
OSAS seems to accept a washing, like being cleansed once is perfect transformation, while the
oneness is only when we see the Lord face to face.

I'd agree. Those that believe in OSAS (not me) seem to believe that we get washed one time and then never again.
So how would the new sins get washed away?
When do you think we see the Lord face to face?

Emotions and our walk define us. How people deal with the Lord today is what they will face
when it is face to face tomorrow. Sadly their complaining hearts and stubborn wills will cause
a rejection of the King like night and day. How can light be more clear? Either you know it
in your heart or its just an anxious dream you hope will be true, but you know its fake.

I do agree that our walk defines us...albeit we do stumble at times.
The important aspect is that we continue to walk in the direction of God (accompanied by the Holy Spirit).
Emotions? Which emotions? Do you mean like at the beginning when we're all fired up for God?
Do you mean how we can transform our emotions to be more in keeping with how God would want them to be?

If anyone wants a light on this reality, who is Trump and is he righteous, a prophet?

Only God can know Trump's heart.
Only God can know if he's righteous.
He might be faking...
he might be a new Christian...
he might be confused....we can't know.

Why and how people answer this shouts where they are. God bless you

So many professing believers do not know the Lord or His ways, it is that simple.

I agree with this.
But they'd say that you or I don't know God's ways.

I'd say that some make being Christian too difficult
and some make it too easy.

Maybe it's easier as time goes by...
or maybe it's easy because the person wants Jesus as Savior but not as Lord.

 

[WalkInLight]

Isn't it interesting that what you posted above is true in each case even of today.
John baptized for the forgiveness of sin.
Jesus baptized for the forgiveness of sin. Acts 2:38, Acts 22:16
Isaiah had his sins atoned for --- just as we all do.


Jesus said He was one with God.
Are we one with God?
Does this go beyond our being in Christ or Christ being in us?


I agree, but not sure what you mean by oneness.


I'm thinking you might be in a oneness church...
??


I'd agree. Those that believe in OSAS (not me) seem to believe that we get washed one time and then never again.
So how would the new sins get washed away?
When do you think we see the Lord face to face?


I do agree that our walk defines us...albeit we do stumble at times.
The important aspect is that we continue to walk in the direction of God (accompanied by the Holy Spirit).
Emotions? Which emotions? Do you mean like at the beginning when we're all fired up for God?
Do you mean how we can transform our emotions to be more in keeping with how God would want them to be?


Only God can know Trump's heart.
Only God can know if he's righteous.
He might be faking...
he might be a new Christian...
he might be confused....we can't know.


I agree with this.
But they'd say that you or I don't know God's ways.

I'd say that some make being Christian too difficult
and some make it too easy.

Maybe it's easier as time goes by...
or maybe it's easy because the person wants Jesus as Savior but not as Lord.

Oneness with Christ is probably not what Jesus meant.
Clearly we cannot be one like Jesus and the Father are.
But Jesus wanted his disciples to be one, and Paul expressed being one in our minds/attitudes.

I have struggled with this concept as we vary so much, until you start to simplify things and remove the
complexity. If walking in the light is about overcoming inappropriate behaviour or desires or contexts, and
walking the path towards appreciation of what we have and using it to Gods glory no matter how small or large
it is.

Emotions are such a complex issue. They change our opinions and drive our responses. We justify so much that
is wrong and miss that which is right because of how we feel. I suspect our emotions stick to situations and people
we have experienced and guide what we are prepared to risk and express. But once one untangles and forgives,
you can begin to see what is appropriate and what is not because there are little emotional imbalances to sort out.

A simple one here is why must God be forgiving no matter my behaviour. "Because I cannot control my behaviour yet
I have faith, so the promises apply to me, and so it is a lie that things can be resolved, which is impossible and those
preaching this are liars."

If I live in the prison that enslaves my responses then my theology will justify who I am, and reassure me its all ok.
I loved my dad, but he was distant and very shy. In a conversation on dads, it was mentioned the term the silent
generation. These folk were so traumatised they never talked about the great wars, or its affect on them. Unfortunately
being a son of a silent man, made me fearful of authority and over explaining everything. But when I understood
authority and the role of justice, I was freed. I could see God the Father in a new light. My behaviour could then
change. So I have come to believe so much of who we are is driven by these emotional links and foundations, but
none is permanent if Jesus can come in and shine His light and help us work it through.

Do I love my wife, or manipulate her, or her me? Do I have pride and only want recognition to feel worthwhile and
condemn and look down on all around me? It is easy in insecurity to do all these things. But to discover Jesus
sat down beside us and wants to talk, and share His love through us to everyone.

OSAS sits in the middle of this emotional quagmire and distorts the promises of Jesus to be powerless.

God bless you

 

[GodsGrace]

Oneness with Christ is probably not what Jesus meant.
Clearly we cannot be one like Jesus and the Father are.
But Jesus wanted his disciples to be one, and Paul expressed being one in our minds/attitudes.

I hear about oneness churches but clearly you don't belong to one.

Agreed. There are verses about how we are to have the same mind and show love for each other.
Absolutely this is what Jesus wanted.

I have struggled with this concept as we vary so much, until you start to simplify things and remove the
complexity.

We here on these forums need something to discuss...
so we'll discuss, at times, the most nuanced ideas.

I think that we Christians basically agree although some post strange ideas that I've never heard of but they insist that they're Christian teachings.

Making it simple sure does help...

If walking in the light is about overcoming inappropriate behaviour or desires or contexts, and
walking the path towards appreciation of what we have and using it to Gods glory no matter how small or large
it is.

But some don't agree on the above, and here is where I don't recognize myself in the other member.
Jesus absolutely meant for us to change our behavior, our desires and our inner self or heart, as the OT called it.

And how do we do anything to allow it to be to God's glory?
I think by witnessing and letting others know that we have faith and that it's a valid faith....
and then to witness by visible acts that show our faith....
Yes. This is for man and not for God since God knows our heart...
but it's important to witness to man too in this world that is becoming void of God.

Emotions are such a complex issue. They change our opinions and drive our responses. We justify so much that
is wrong and miss that which is right because of how we feel. I suspect our emotions stick to situations and people
we have experienced and guide what we are prepared to risk and express. But once one untangles and forgives,
you can begin to see what is appropriate and what is not because there are little emotional imbalances to sort out.

A simple one here is why must God be forgiving no matter my behaviour. "Because I cannot control my behaviour yet
I have faith, so the promises apply to me, and so it is a lie that things can be resolved, which is impossible and those
preaching this are liars."

But if we have faith, how could we NOT control our behavior?
Isn't that the whole objective? To be transformed?

I'm not saying we'll all reach the same level of unwanted emotions....
But I certainly believe we could control them a lot better than most of us do.
I'll say this however; until the Holy Spirit convicts us of something - in this case our behavior - we are not really going to change.
We need God's grace and power to look/feel beyond the emotion being experienced and concentrate on God looking at us and desiring from us a specific response instead of the emotion that might be propping up in us - in most cases anger or envy.

And God will forgive us because He promised to if we ask forgiveness.
But this forgiveness is not a "license to sin". as many seem to feel it is since they plainly state that
even living a life of sin will be forgiven by God.
Hmmm. I don't think so.

If I live in the prison that enslaves my responses then my theology will justify who I am, and reassure me its all ok.
I loved my dad, but he was distant and very shy. In a conversation on dads, it was mentioned the term the silent
generation. These folk were so traumatised they never talked about the great wars, or its affect on them. Unfortunately
being a son of a silent man, made me fearful of authority and over explaining everything. But when I understood
authority and the role of justice, I was freed.

Same experience here.
Both parents....very quiet; especially about private matters.
This had the same effect on me.

I could see God the Father in a new light. My behaviour could then
change. So I have come to believe so much of who we are is driven by these emotional links and foundations, but
none is permanent if Jesus can come in and shine His light and help us work it through.

Amen. And here is the power of God that so many speak of.

Do I love my wife, or manipulate her, or her me?

Both. But we're only creatures after all and we'll never be 100% perfect.
No complete sanctification in this life.
As long as it's love 95% of the time and manipulation 5% of the time and not V V.
Don't we try to manipulate others to do what we want to do?
This can also be called CONVINCING...we shouldn't be so hard on ourselves.
Someone in another forum told me we cannot NEED our partner but only love them.
I've been needing my husband all my life. I think it's normal. The other person thinks it's sick.

Do I have pride and only want recognition to feel worthwhile and
condemn and look down on all around me? It is easy in insecurity to do all these things. But to discover Jesus
sat down beside us and wants to talk, and share His love through us to everyone.

How about sharing His love but still wanting to feel worthwhile?
Is that OK?

OSAS sits in the middle of this emotional quagmire and distorts the promises of Jesus to be powerless.

God bless you

OSAS has been resolved for me.
I read the ECFs and none of them taught this.
So I do believe a person can walk away from God...
but God will never walk away from us.

 

[Taken]

The early church refuted OSAS for hundreds of years where it was only taught among gnostics.

Why didn't anyone in the early church recognize OSAS if that was what Scripture and the Apostles taught?

* The Beginning of the Church…
Was Christ Jesus and small group of JEWS.

*Early on….a group of Gentiles…hijacked the Church….AND?

* Counseled together …
* Decided their own Doctrine…
* Wrote & Distributed Their own Doctrine…
* Continued with periodic Counsels adding to their Doctrine.
* Taught Their Own Doctrine To eager
Illiterate persons For centuries….and continue the same to this day.

Gnostics, Were also a group established by men Who could READ… and Stood Against Flawed Teachings The supposed “Church”…was Teaching their illiterate congregations (from their OWN made-up Doctrines.)

Matters Not… Early Teachings…of MENS own Doctrines…called Catholicism or Islam or Buddhism or Hinduism….
If anyone REJECTS their (man-made Doctrine)…they must be Called out to be
A HERETIC…AN INFIDEL…AN UNBELIEVER…

It is the OLDEST TEACHING IN THE BOOK…
God said…Jesus said…
“If you are NOT WITH ME. you ARE AGAINST ME”.

However THE FACT IS:
Being Not in agreement WITH HUMAN men…
Does NOT translate to mean Being AGAINST the Lord God Almighty…(as “they” at-“TEMPT” to Imply).

OSAS… has Always Been Gods Message.
Assuredness and Security WITH God is NOTHING new!)

What ….CHANGED….was Men IN the NT Revealed A NEW OPTION…
(called AN Surety of A BETTER TESTAMENT)
******Heb 7:22*****

* A Complex Doctrine and Miracle Offering From God…
Assured Salvation and Quickening BEFORE “a MORTAL DEATH”. !!!

Matters Not if the ignorant fail to Understand Gods Offering…

Not News … Out of ALL humans ever Naturally born…ONLY FEW…WILL Accept Gods Offering…

and THEY WHO DO ACCEPT…know who THEY are AND know THEIR STANDING is ASSUREDLY FOREVER With THEIR Lord God Almighty.

A Heretic…infidel…unbeliever…For TRUSTING God and Accepting HIS Offering?
Utter delusion and laughable on its face.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Christian Soldier]

* The Beginning of the Church…
Was Christ Jesus and small group of JEWS.

*Early on….a group of Gentiles…hijacked the Church….AND?

* Counseled together …
* Decided their own Doctrine…
* Wrote & Distributed Their own Doctrine…
* Continued with periodic Counsels adding to their Doctrine.
* Taught Their Own Doctrine To eager
Illiterate persons For centuries….and continue the same to this day.

Gnostics, Were also a group established by men Who could READ… and Stood Against Flawed Teachings The supposed “Church”…was Teaching their illiterate congregations (from their OWN made-up Doctrines.)

Matters Not… Early Teachings…of MENS own Doctrines…called Catholicism or Islam or Buddhism or Hinduism….
If anyone REJECTS their (man-made Doctrine)…they must be Called out to be
A HERETIC…AN INFIDEL…AN UNBELIEVER…

It is the OLDEST TEACHING IN THE BOOK…
God said…Jesus said…
“If you are NOT WITH ME. you ARE AGAINST ME”.

However THE FACT IS:
Being Not in agreement WITH HUMAN men…
Does NOT translate to mean Being AGAINST the Lord God Almighty…(as “they” at-“TEMPT” to Imply).

OSAS… has Always Been Gods Message.
Assuredness and Security WITH God is NOTHING new!)

What ….CHANGED….was Men IN the NT Revealed A NEW OPTION…
(called AN Surety of A BETTER TESTAMENT)
******Heb 7:22*****

* A Complex Doctrine and Miracle Offering From God…
Assured Salvation and Quickening BEFORE “a MORTAL DEATH”. !!!

Matters Not if the ignorant fail to Understand Gods Offering…

Not News … Out of ALL humans ever Naturally born…ONLY FEW…WILL Accept Gods Offering…

and THEY WHO DO ACCEPT…know who THEY are AND know THEIR STANDING is ASSUREDLY FOREVER With THEIR Lord God Almighty.

A Heretic…infidel…unbeliever…For TRUSTING God and Accepting HIS Offering?
Utter delusion and laughable on its face.

Glory to God,
Taken

The bible Doctrine of eternal security (OSAS) is the most hated Bible doctrine, by most (professing Christians), because it gives them nothing to boast about.

Fallen man demands that God share His glory in salvation with them, but we know that God does not share His glory with anyone and this is why the true gospel has always been rejected by wicked sinners who profess to be Christians.

If salvation was dependent on man in any way, then nobody would be saved, it is all of the Lord from start to finish. Man contributes nothing to his salvation, and this truth is hated by the proud religious people because it makes a mockery of their (man made, works based gospel message).

Only a few accept the true gospel, as you rightly pointed out. Most cannot humble themselves and embrace the doctrine of grace.

Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

as the above verse clearly states "you have been saved by grace", the heretics don't mind that but they reject the rest of the verse which confirms that faith is not of yourselves but it is the gift of God. So if grace and faith are both gifts from God, then there is nothing left for the heretics to boast about, and their man made works based gospel is exposed as a false gospel or as some call it (the doctrine of Demons).

 

[Stumpmaster]

Most cannot humble themselves and embrace the doctrine of grace.

So God fails . . . ???

 

[Taken]

So God fails . . . ???

?

 

[Stumpmaster]

?

If faith comes by hearing the Word of God why doesn't everyone who hears the Word of God hear it in the sense of trusting it to be true, thereby coming to faith in Christ? In the Parable of the Sower we are given various reasons for those who receive the Word not being fruitful, but why don't all those that hear it come to faith? Predestined Reprobation is an abysmal, heretical, false teaching.

 

[GracePeace]

* The Beginning of the Church…
Was Christ Jesus and small group of JEWS.

*Early on….a group of Gentiles…hijacked the Church….AND?

* Counseled together …
* Decided their own Doctrine…
* Wrote & Distributed Their own Doctrine…
* Continued with periodic Counsels adding to their Doctrine.
* Taught Their Own Doctrine To eager
Illiterate persons For centuries….and continue the same to this day.

Gnostics, Were also a group established by men Who could READ… and Stood Against Flawed Teachings The supposed “Church”…was Teaching their illiterate congregations (from their OWN made-up Doctrines.)

Matters Not… Early Teachings…of MENS own Doctrines…called Catholicism or Islam or Buddhism or Hinduism….
If anyone REJECTS their (man-made Doctrine)…they must be Called out to be
A HERETIC…AN INFIDEL…AN UNBELIEVER…

It is the OLDEST TEACHING IN THE BOOK…
God said…Jesus said…
“If you are NOT WITH ME. you ARE AGAINST ME”.

However THE FACT IS:
Being Not in agreement WITH HUMAN men…
Does NOT translate to mean Being AGAINST the Lord God Almighty…(as “they” at-“TEMPT” to Imply).

OSAS… has Always Been Gods Message.
Assuredness and Security WITH God is NOTHING new!)

What ….CHANGED….was Men IN the NT Revealed A NEW OPTION…
(called AN Surety of A BETTER TESTAMENT)
******Heb 7:22*****

* A Complex Doctrine and Miracle Offering From God…
Assured Salvation and Quickening BEFORE “a MORTAL DEATH”. !!!

Matters Not if the ignorant fail to Understand Gods Offering…

Not News … Out of ALL humans ever Naturally born…ONLY FEW…WILL Accept Gods Offering…

and THEY WHO DO ACCEPT…know who THEY are AND know THEIR STANDING is ASSUREDLY FOREVER With THEIR Lord God Almighty.

A Heretic…infidel…unbeliever…For TRUSTING God and Accepting HIS Offering?
Utter delusion and laughable on its face.

Glory to God,
Taken

This presentation doesn't, by itself, prove the case against the common version of OSAS (I also hold to a form of OSAS), it's just another witness in addition to all the Scriptural arguments that are furnished--"In addition to the Scriptural arguments against your version of OSAS, isn't it 'interesting' that, in the early church's times, OSAS was only found among the Gnostic heretics (against whom, in part, 1 John was written : "I write to you not because you don't know the truth but because you do know the truth but there are people trying to deceive you")--and the conclusions which the early church arrived at through Scripture agreed with our own (and against your version of OSAS)?"

 

[Taken]

If ….. faith comes by hearing the Word of God why doesn't everyone who hears the Word of God hear it in the sense of trusting it to be true, thereby coming to faith in Christ?

I find your Question beginning with “IF”…curious.

Scripture says Faith comes by hearing the word of God…not…IF.

I think rather you are curious ….
“Since” Faith comes by hearing, WHY are only Few people Faithful…(?)

Inasmuch as people have FREEWILL to Hear the Word of God….so also do people have FREEWILL to NOT hear the Word of God.

Hearing Gods Word…is An Invitation From God…
An individual HEARS the Word of God….(for numerous Reasons…
* force of the household
* impression for brownie points
* curious
* makes no sense, turn off
* too time consuming
* boring, compared to other options available
* on and on

And HEARING…does NOT mean “THEY” are “LISTENING”…

Example…
Having a conversation…with an other…IS Not a mystery what the Other “Is” Hearing or Listening TO and or THINKING ABOUT.

I can have a radio on ALL Day…8 hours, non-Stop….hearing…But yet …”Might” at the end of those 8 hours…be able to repeat A tid bit phrase I thought worthy to consider to verify….and the rest…irrelevant Noise.

Jesus…intending to speak to crowds was announced (similar as Churches announce a sermon will be delivered, this place, this time, by whom)…

Individuals have option, to go, to hear, to think what they are hearing is guff, is interesting, think about it, ignore it. About face and walk away….

Point is ….Few Hear to begin with…and fewer yet are Listening…ESPECIALLY … IF their “existance in this secular world” is….pretty comfortable and cushy.

Jesus said….There will always be… the “POOR”….(And secularism…POOR means…less money and assets……Whereas Spiritually POOR means “POOR” in Spirit…)

It is a Rarity …For wealthy, Poweful, Famous, Catered (humans)… to LISTEN to Gods Word…inspite of HEARING Gods Word…While they are Thinking of anything Other than His Word.

Point being…Hearing the Word of God…
Is “The Beginning of Faith”…

Hear a Little…Receive a Little Faith
Increase IN FAITH…is directionally proportionate to one Hearing…

In my personal observation having had contact with numerous individuals…of all walks of life, rearing, paths…
My conclusion is:
FEW actually HEAR the Word of God…
FEW actually READ the Word of God.
FEW Believe the Word of God.
FEW Genuinely Know or Trust the Word of God.
FEW Seek Gods Understanding of His Word.
FEW COMPREHEND;
The average individual WHO has FAITH… CAN Fall From FAITH….(what that means) …AND WHY…Falling From Faith…Can NEVER apply To a Particular FEW men.

The Gift of Faith …IS NOT The Gift of Salvation.

Measures of The Gift OF FAITH From God, IS Given to …
* Active Sinners Against God, Hearing, and FREELY Listening…to the Word of God.
(and such man CAN STOP receiving increase of Gods Gift of FAITH ).
* Repentant, Forgiven Sinful Body’s, Soul’s, Spirit’s of men…Having HAD been Against the Word of God.
(such men NEVER…stop receiving Gods Gift of Faith…measure by measure, increase by increase)

In the Parable of the Sower we are given various reasons for those who receive the Word not being fruitful, but why don't all those that hear it come to faith?

Because all Hearing are not LISTENING! They are NOT giving a hoot of about Gods Word being Spoken…
Observe…a gathering listening to A Sermon… even before arriving, the arguing, rushing, once there…the gossip, the whispers, the focus on their fashion of wardrobe, hair, who is slated to take the stage and “entertain” them, stage antics of hollering and jumping around, ballgame stats, making business deals, eyeing for potential boyfriends, impressing a lady, sleeping, the robotic rituals, bowing, kissing and parading statues, where to go eat, playing electronic games, blah, blah, blah.


Matt. 21:
[13] And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves.

Predestined Reprobation is an abysmal, heretical, false teaching.

Absolutely Disagree.
Predestination…is Simply …God KNOWS and Has PREPARED a PLACE….for Every individuals Final Destiny….

It is the human Individual who becomes Privy TO such Knowledge…by the Choices he Makes along his JOURNEY in Mortal Life…day by day … Choosing this, Rejecting that…believing this, rejecting that…

His own destiny becomes vivid…and the consequences of his own choices are NOT secret.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Behold]

OSAS originated with the Gnostics,

OSAS, originated with Jews who accused Paul of "teaching us to sin so that Grace will come".

In other words.. its a 2000 yr old Jewish cult concept that is trying to FALSELY redefine God's Grace as ""license to sin"", so that the Christian will become confused by deceptively being led to believe that Eternal Security is freedom to sin.

So, what is going on here?

A.) The Devil is trying to cause the Christian, to reject God's Grace, by causing a believer to misunderstand it as freedom to sin.

IN Fact, God's Grace, does not give you freedom to sin...it gives you freedom from the Law so that you are no longer defined by the Law, as a sinner........if you are not perfect.

This is not "license to sin". .this is """"made free from the LAW"" = so that the LAW can't define you ever again, as a SINNER, because the born again.. = "are NOT UNDER THE LAW.........but under GRACE".

 

[GracePeace]

OSAS, originated with Jews who accused Paul of "teaching us to sin so that Grace will come".

In other words.. its a 2000 yr old Jewish cult concept that is trying to FALSELY redefine God's Grace as ""license to sin"", so that the Christian will become confused by deceptively being led to believe that Eternal Security is freedom to sin.

So, what is going on here?

A.) The Devil is trying to cause the Christian, to reject God's Grace, by causing a believer to misunderstand it as freedom to sin.

Lots of people like myself don't view it that way. I object bc it's inaccurate, but I don't think it necessarily leads to "license to sin".

IN Fact, God's Grace, does not give you freedom to sin...it gives you freedom from the Law so that you are no longer defined by the Law, as a sinner........if you are not perfect.

The Jew is freed from his obligation to serve by the Law, but, to be clear, the Gentile was never obligated to keep the Law, so they aren't "freed" from it by faith.

This is not "license to sin". .this is """"made free from the LAW"" = so that the LAW can't define you ever again, as a SINNER, because the born again.. = "are NOT UNDER THE LAW.........but under GRACE".

Being under grace doesn't mean you never can be condemned (eg, Ro 14:23).

 

[Behold]

Lots of people like myself don't view it that way. I object bc it's inaccurate, but I don't think it necessarily leads to "license to sin".

The OSAS cult teaching, is not designed to get you to have a license to sin.

Its designed to cause you to reject God's Grace by confusing the person into thinking that God's Grace is license to sin.

So, all of this is just a smoke screen.
Its designed to keep the believer from understanding that they are not under the law.

See, only the Law can define you and your bad behavior as SINNER sinning, and that is a curse on everyone.

So, Christ came to "redeem us from the CURSE of the LAW".......

And when the believer understands they exist here....>>"where there is no LAW, there is no SIN found.. no Transgression"..

See that PLACE?
That is the Kingdom of God, where there is no LAW......and the born again, exist there.....


OSAS, is designed to keep you mentally tied up trying to figure out if eternal security is a license to sin, so that the believer never comes to the KNOWLEDGE that they are already "made free from sin", and exist where no LAW can define them as a sinner.

The Jew is freed from his obligation to serve by the Law, but, to be clear, the Gentile was never obligated to keep the Law, so they aren't "freed" from it by faith.

The reason you understand that killing 40 people with your car, in New Orleans.. on New Years EVE, is a SIN for a GENTILE, is because of the LAW that told you, "tho shalt not Kill".

See, Both the Law and 10 "commandments< came from MOSES, so they are the same "Law"... that defines sin.


The born again, are "not under the Law".. so, the LAW can't define the born again as a sinner., because God has defined the born again as..."The Righteousness of GOD.......in Christ".

See that?
There is no LAW found there, and all the born again are that one.......

 

[GracePeace]

The OSAS cult teaching, is not designed to get you to have a license to sin.

Its designed to cause you to reject God's Grace by confusing the person into thinking that God's Grace is license to sin.

So, all of this is just a smoke screen.
Its designed to keep the believer from understanding that they are not under the law.

See, only the Law can define you and your bad behavior as SINNER sinning, and that is a curse on everyone.

So, Christ came to "redeem us from the CURSE of the LAW".......

And when the believer understands they exist here....>>"where there is no LAW, there is no SIN found.. no Transgression"..

See that PLACE?
That is the Kingdom of God, where there is no LAW......and the born again, exist there.....


OSAS, is designed to keep you mentally tied up trying to figure out if eternal security is a license to sin, so that the believer never comes to the KNOWLEDGE that they are already "made free from sin", and exist where no LAW can define them as a sinner.

I guess the cult isn't effective with me bc I don't wonder if it leads to license, I just oppose it bc I'm a stickler for accuracy.

The reason you understand that killing 40 people with your car, in New Orleans.. on New Years EVE, is a SIN for a GENTILE, is because of the LAW that told you, "tho shalt not Kill".

No, people know it's wrong bc it's self evident. Lots of nations (all the non-Jewish ones) were never given the Law and still developed prohibitions against murder, and punishments for it. Ro 1 tells you that : "knowing the judgment of God that those who do those things are worthy of death". He's describing (lost) Gentiles--they know God's eternal attributes from creation, and they intuit God's righteous judgments... without the Law.

See, Both the Law and 10 "commandments< came from MOSES, so they are the same "Law"... that defines sin.


The born again, are "not under the Law".. so, the LAW can't define the born again as a sinner., because God has defined the born again as..."The Righteousness of GOD.......in Christ".

See that?
There is no LAW found there, and all the born again are that one.......

Romans 14:23 says believers can be condemned for sin, though they are "under grace", so this is inaccurate.

 

[Behold]

No, people know it's wrong bc it's self evident.

Really?

Was it "self evident" to the person who just drove into a crowd in New Orleans 10 hrs ago, and killed 10, and crippled 30?

Was it "self evident" to Hamas, when they were putting Jewish Babies in The oven in their own home and turning the Heat up to "FULL", and cooking the babies alive while they took their I-phones and recorded the screaming BURNING babies?

So, you have a religious person's opinion, but it does not fit the world of millions of people who have no conscience, have no concept of right or wrong, and dont want to have any morals.

Unbelievers, ALL = enjoy SINNING.... @GracePeace ...

Understand?

They want to do it MORE.....they are not "condemned" and dont feel anything when they sin, except that they want to do it again.

Romans 14:23 says believers can be condemned for sin, though they are "under grace", so this is inaccurate.

Jesus has been Crucified for ALL the Believer's sin and the condemnation for our sin, fell on HIM.
You dont know this, so that is why you have theological opinions and quote verses you dont' understand.


1.) Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,

New Living Translation
So now there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus.

English Standard Version
There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

Berean Standard Bible
Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

===============================================================================================================

2.) For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace.

New Living Translation
Sin is no longer your master, for you no longer live under the requirements of the law. Instead, you live under the freedom of God’s grace.

English Standard Version
For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.

Berean Standard Bible
For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace.

Berean Literal Bible
For sin will not rule over you, for you are not under law, but under grace.

King James Bible
For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

New King James Version
For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

 

[GracePeace]

Really?

Was it "self evident" to the person who just drove into a crowd in New Orleans 10 hrs ago, and killed 10, and crippled 30?

Was it "self evident" to Hamas, when they were putting Jewish Babies in The oven in their own home and turning the Heat up to "FULL", and cooking the babies alive while they took their I-phones and recorded the screaming BURNING babies?

So, you have a religious person's opinion, but it does not fit the world of millions of people who have no conscience, have no concept of right or wrong, and dont want to have any morals.
Unbelievers, ALL = enjoy SINNING.... @GracePeace ...

Understand?

They want to do it MORE.....they are not "condemned" and dont feel anything when they sin, except that they want to do it again.



Jesus has been Crucified for ALL the Believer's sin and the condemnation for our sin, fell on HIM.
You dont know this, so that is why you have theological opinions and quote verses you dont' understand.

Romans 1 was cited.

I'll wait for your reply to it.

The rest is irrelevant drama.

1.) Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,

New Living Translation
So now there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus.

English Standard Version
There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

Berean Standard Bible
Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

===============================================================================================================

Yeah, this verse only proves that when the Christian sins he is not abiding in Christ--if they were they wouldn't be condemned, as Ro 14:23 says.

2.) For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace.

New Living Translation
Sin is no longer your master, for you no longer live under the requirements of the law. Instead, you live under the freedom of God’s grace.

English Standard Version
For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.

Berean Standard Bible
For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace.

Berean Literal Bible
For sin will not rule over you, for you are not under law, but under grace.

King James Bible
For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

New King James Version
For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

Yup, the Jewish believers he was addressing needed to be taught about the Gospel, and for them, that piece of information was important... but the Gentiles don't need that instruction bc they never were under Law. They are categorically "without the Law" (Ro 2; 1 Co 9). The only time it becomes important is when someone is trying to deceive them into being under the Law, something they never knew.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

op: God's ETERNAL Life is gnostic heresy?
Absolutely not! "What Saith The Scripture?":

God's OPERATION On All HIS New-born babes In CHRIST
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God's Eternal Assurance
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God's Eternal Life Insurance

Amen.