Why does everyone seem to need to come up with their own belief and doctrinal formula?

[Behold]

This is your explanation, so noted:

"All scripture is given for: Doctrine" "But not all scripture is : Doctrine."

Let me explain it in detail, as you are not aware of the verse i partially used...

Listen..

"All scripture is given by Inspiration of God... and is PROFITABLE <<<<< ...

= ""for"

And then Paul list 4 aspects that a verse can profit you...can help you.......but what you have to understand is that not all verses perform all 4 of these these for you.. in most cases.

So, ALL verses are for Doctrine, instruction, correction, reproof.
See those 4 aspects?
And what that means is.........all verses are going to profit you, in some way, but not it ALL ways...according to the list... in most cases.

Here is an example... = .... a verse that says to take some wine for your stress, is instruction, but its not DOCTRINE and its not a Reproof.

See that?

So, when Paul lists the ways all verses can help, he's not stating that all verses are helpful in the same way..., as not all are for Doctrine, and not all are for Reproof..................= but all are going to profit us.

 

[MA2444]

Here is an example... = .... a verse that says to take some wine for your stress, is instruction, but its not DOCTRINE and its not a Reproof.

So Wine is for Instruction and Correction? I'll buy that, since wine is alcoholic and that is a solution!

 

[Behold]

So Wine is for Instruction and Correction? I'll buy that, since wine is alcoholic and that is a solution!

There is Timothy.
Timothy and Titus were young "preacher boys'... and they were living in a time, when talking about Jesus could get you sawn in half, or boiled in oil, or hung upside down and burned alive, or eaten by wild animals in an arena with 30,000 people cheering as you are eaten.
It was "stressful" to be around Paul, who was whipped/beaten with rods 4x, shipwrecked, snake-bit, jailed, stoned to death, and finally beheaded.
So, hanging around the greatest Christian who ever lived, could get you killed.

it was "stressful" and they were young men.. and Paul told Timothy to drink a "little" wine for his "stomach".. = stress.

(In the Bible, the "stomach" is CODE for "where all your emotions are located"..

 

[ScottA]

Let me explain it in detail, as you are not aware of the verse i partially used...

Listen..

"All scripture is given by Inspiration of God... and is PROFITABLE <<<<< ...

= ""for"

And then Paul list 4 aspects that a verse can profit you...can help you.......but what you have to understand is that not all verses perform all 4 of these these for you.. in most cases.

So, ALL verses are for Doctrine, instruction, correction, reproof.
See those 4 aspects?
And what that means is.........all verses are going to profit you, in some way, but not it ALL ways...according to the list... in most cases.

Here is an example... = .... a verse that says to take some wine for your stress, is instruction, but its not DOCTRINE and its not a Reproof.

See that?

So, when Paul lists the ways all verses can help, he's not stating that all verses are helpful in the same way..., as not all are for Doctrine, and not all are for Reproof..................= but all are going to profit us.

You [you] reasoning your way through that verse, is simply you explaining away the potential for greater meaning by God who made no such stipulation. You are hindering the Holy Spirit by teaching according to your own understanding.

Example: You say that a little wine being good for stress (or rather the stomach) according to your own interpretation, is not good for doctrine. But that assumes that partaking a measure of spirit is not good for doctrine...when "here a little, there a little" of the spirit of God is indeed good for doctrine. See that?

 

[MA2444]

Yes.

Wine, can be enjoyed with a meal, as obviously Jesus didnt turn water into grape juice.
Some people have a little wine in the evening.
As had He done this, then the people at the wedding feast would have said........."where is the wine"... but they didnt......they said... "this wine is amazing, and you saved it for last"...

I dont drink.. (in case you are wondering)... unless its water or some type of juice.

And then there is Timothy.
Timothy and Titus were young "preacher boys'... and they were living in a time, when talking about Jesus could get you sawn in half, or boiled in oil, or hung upside down and burned alive, or eaten by wild animals in an arena with 30,000 people cheering as you are eaten.
It was "stressful" to be around Paul, who was whipped/beaten with rods 4x, shipwrecked, snake-bit, jailed, stoned to death, and finally beheaded.
So, hanging around the greatest Christian who ever lived, could get you killed.

it was "stressful" and they were young men.. and Paul told Timothy to drink a "little" wine for his "stomach".. = stress.

(In the Bible, the "stomach" is CODE for "where all your emotions are located"..

Learn sum'pin new every day.

I have a bottle of red wine in the fridge right now. I keep it around. Not for drinking drinking but for taking Communion.

 

[Behold]

You [you] reasoning your way through that verse, is simply you explaining away the potential for greater meaning by God who made no such stipulation. You are hindering the Holy Spirit by teaching according to your own understanding.

Paul said that All scripture is inspired by God and has the capacity to offer 4 types of Helps.

Paul lists them, and i'll list them for you again.

for doctrine,

for reproof,

for correction,

for instruction in righteousness

See those?

Now what can happen is that a verse that is not directed to the Christian..... if they try to use it for themselves........then that is where a lot of Heresy is born.

So, Paul teaches us to "rightly divide" the verses, so that we dont do that.

Notice that there is one "body of Christ"... @ScottA ......YET THERE are 45,000 "christian" denominations in the World.

So how did that happen?
It happens because people dont study the bible, and they do not obey Paul's directions., so that will lead you into the dark.

Example: You say that a little wine being good for stress (or rather the stomach) according to your own interpretation, is not good for doctrine.

First of all, its Paul who told Timothy to take some wine for his stress and that is not "doctrine for the church"... its simply instruction for Timothy to use "a little wine for his upset stomach".. So, that is medicinal usage.

So, that is not "Church doctrine".........as you can't tell every Christian to do that... as some have health issues, that "taking a little wine", can explode.

So, each person, understands their own situation.. Some Christians are former alcoholics and so you would not tell them to "take a little wine", for any reason.

As for me, i dont drink, but if you want to have some wine, (and this wont harm you for some reason)... then as an adult, .. if your conscience is not upset by having some wine then, have some if you want some........in moderation.
But, if your conscience is STUNG by drinking wine, then dont drink it..

See, all Believers, have to evaluate themselves, and know what not do , as well as what they can enjoy.

Its different for all Christians.

 

[ScottA]

Notice that there is one "body of Christ"... @ScottA ......YET THERE are 45,000 "christian" denominations in the World.

So how did that happen?
It happens because people dont study the bible, and they do not obey Paul's directions., so that will lead you into the dark.

No, that is not how it happened, nor how it is written. On the contrary, foretold destructive doctrines entered the church by false teachers teaching a lie that has caused strong delusion and great apostacy.

 

[ScottA]

First of all, its Paul who told Timothy to take some wine for his stress and that is not "doctrine for the church"... its simply instruction for Timothy to use "a little wine for his upset stomach".. So, that is medicinal usage.

So, that is not "Church doctrine".........as you can't tell every Christian to do that... as some have health issues, that "taking a little wine", can explode.

So, each person, understands their own situation.. Some Christians are former alcoholics and so you would not tell them to "take a little wine", for any reason.

As for me, i dont drink, but if you want to have some wine, (and this wont harm you for some reason)... then as an adult, .. if your conscience is not upset by having some wine then, have some if you want some........in moderation.
But, if your conscience is STUNG by drinking wine, then dont drink it..

See, all Believers, have to evaluate themselves, and know what not do , as well as what they can enjoy.

Its different for all Christians.

I already explained the greater meaning of that "little wine" passage.

In any case, it is not you who decides what is and is not "church doctrine", but God alone.

 

[Behold]

No, that is not how it happened, nor how it is written. On the contrary, foretold destructive doctrines entered the church by false teachers teaching a lie that has caused strong delusion and great apostacy.

Notice that when you say that false teachers create strong delusion, you are restating what i just told you as the reason, there are 45,000 "christian denominations" . @ScottA

Its false teaching, that causes all this...

The false teaching.......is ... a person who isn't born again, or is.... who finds verses that they misuse upon themselves in their confusion, because they have not been taught how to "rightly divide the word". as Paul instructs.
And over the last 1500 yrs, you have the "cult of Mary".. that has created a huge worldwide heretical religion, and you have smaller offerings that are smaller denominations......that all started and have sustained based on wrongly dividing the word of God.

All heretics are deceived by the devil because the devil is the author of all deception that "men and women do".
So, in the context of Christianity.. .many people who are not bad people.. but they are terrible students of the word.......feel they are called to start some new denomination...or write a commentary, or a book, or created a "New bible version"......and over time.all of . this has morphed into 45,000 Denominations worldwide........... that all say "we are Christian". "we have the truth".

Yet there is but one.

JESUS is THE Truth.

and there is but one correct NT Doctrine......and that is "Paul's Doctrine".

 

[Behold]

In any case, it is not you who decides what is and is not "church doctrine", but God alone.

Let me show you another verse ....

God gives, to the body of Christ......."TEACHERS". "for the perfecting of the Saints".. (The Christians).

So, how to you discern and discover who is a false teacher, vs, a God appointed.?

its 2 things.

1.) The real teacher, understands The Cross of Christ, and loves it in front of anyone and everyone.... and will never try to teach that any type of works or deeds or commandment keeping... is the reason that God will initially accept you, or keep you, forever.

2.) If the "teacher" is not steeped, and devoted, to the Doctrine given for the Church, as found in Paul's theology, then this false teacher is going to lead you to nowhere, and keep you there.

 

[Gottservant]

It's the soul - the soul feeds on doctrine (and comes to want different flavours)

 

[ScottA]

Notice that when you say that false teachers create strong delusion, you are restating what i just told you as the reason, there are 45,000 "christian denominations" . @ScottA

Its false teaching, that causes all this...

The false teaching.......is ... a person who isn't born again, or is.... who finds verses that they misuse upon themselves in their confusion, because they have not been taught how to "rightly divide the word". as Paul instructs.
And over the last 1500 yrs, you have the "cult of Mary".. that has created a huge worldwide heretical religion, and you have smaller offerings that are smaller denominations......that all started and have sustained based on wrongly dividing the word of God.

All heretics are deceived by the devil because the devil is the author of all deception that "men and women do".
So, in the context of Christianity.. .many people who are not bad people.. but they are terrible students of the word.......feel they are called to start some new denomination...or write a commentary, or a book, or created a "New bible version"......and over time.all of . this has morphed into 45,000 Denominations worldwide........... that all say "we are Christian". "we have the truth".

Yet there is but one.

JESUS is THE Truth.

and there is but one correct NT Doctrine......and that is "Paul's Doctrine".

And this you add to by attributing Paul's gospel to Paul himself, when he qualified and clarified his every claim was only Christ crucified.

Now, it is true that Paul spoke for Christ, as he said, "for me to live, is Christ." Which does not make his doctrinal claim his own rather than Christ's. On the contrary, even as you almost stated, it is Jesus' gospel that Paul preached, having been sent by Christ. To say otherwise, is to deny that Jesus sent Paul as an apostle. It is that fact that defines who's gospel Paul preached, for one sent teaches according to Him who sent him.

 

[ScottA]

Let me show you another verse ....

God gives, to the body of Christ......."TEACHERS". "for the perfecting of the Saints".. (The Christians).

So, how to you discern and discover who is a false teacher, vs, a God appointed.?

its 2 things.

1.) The real teacher, understands The Cross of Christ, and loves it in front of anyone and everyone.... and will never try to teach that any type of works or deeds or commandment keeping... is the reason that God will initially accept you, or keep you, forever.

2.) If the "teacher" is not steeped, and devoted, to the Doctrine given for the Church, as found in Paul's theology, then this false teacher is going to lead you to nowhere, and keep you there.

I just gave an answer for this in post #172. Which, is not determined by one's own actions, but by He who sent him--if he was actually sent by God..

 

[Behold]

And this you add to by attributing Paul's gospel to Paul himself, when he qualified and clarified his every claim was only Christ crucified.

Paul's Gospel.....is : "the Gospel of the Grace of God"

Its this.. = "We preach Christ Crucified".

Paul said that His Gospel, came from Jesus....."not from any man"..

So, that is not Paul taking credit for the Gospel, that is Paul defining it, accordingly..

This is why Paul teaches that any other Gospel, other this His, is : false.

Galatians 1:8

Now, it is true that Paul spoke for Christ, as he said, "for me to live, is Christ." Which does not make his doctrinal claim his own rather than Christ's.

Im not sure how you became so confused about the terms ... "Paul's Gospel" or "Paul's Theology" or "Paul's Doctrine".

We call it Paul's Doctrine because Paul Taught it, after Jesus was back in Heaven.
Its Paul's Teaching, so that makes it Paul's Doctrine.

Its sort of like if you write a book, then the story is your story.

So, in this case, we have the doctrine for the body of Christ, found in the Bible, in the NT, in Paul's Epistles.
That is why we refer to it as 'Paul's".

Technically its God's., but literally its Paul's.

On the contrary, even as you almost stated, it is Jesus' gospel that Paul preached,

Paul's Gospel is related to Jesus dying on the Cross.
So, Jesus never preached this for the 3.4 yrs he was walking around and talking to the jews everyday, as He had not been hung on the Cross yet.. which is why He could not preach a message about "The Cross".., and never did.

To say otherwise, is to deny that Jesus sent Paul as an apostle. It is that fact that defines who's gospel Paul preached, for one sent teaches according to Him who sent him.

No one is denying that after Jesus was back in Heaven, Paul became the "Apostle to the Gentiles" in the "time of the Gentiles".

 

[Wrangler]

which is why He could not preach a message about "The Cross".., and never did.

He did say you have to carry your own cross. What’s that about?

 

[Behold]

He did say you have to carry your own cross. What’s that about?

Good question.

Matt is teaching that.. .and Paul explains it as ... "I die daily"....and in Romans 12 = "present your body to God, as a living sacrifice as your reasonable service"... is how you carry your Cross.

Where the heretics grab this concept and run it into a theological ditch, is when they redefine this daily self sacrifice is how you keep yourself saved, or not.

 

[ScottA]

Paul's Gospel.....is : "the Gospel of the Grace of God"

Its this.. = "We preach Christ Crucified".

Paul said that His Gospel, came from Jesus....."not from any man"..

So, that is not Paul taking credit for the Gospel, that is Paul defining it, accordingly..

This is why Paul teaches that any other Gospel, other this His, is : false.

Galatians 1:8



Im not sure how you became so confused about the terms ... "Paul's Gospel" or "Paul's Theology" or "Paul's Doctrine".

We call it Paul's Doctrine because Paul Taught it, after Jesus was back in Heaven.
Its Paul's Teaching, so that makes it Paul's Doctrine.

Its sort of like if you write a book, then the story is your story.

So, in this case, we have the doctrine for the body of Christ, found in the Bible, in the NT, in Paul's Epistles.
That is why we refer to it as 'Paul's".

Technically its God's., but literally its Paul's.



Paul's Gospel is related to Jesus dying on the Cross.
So, Jesus never preached this for the 3.4 yrs he was walking around and talking to the jews everyday, as He had not been hung on the Cross yet.. which is why He could not preach a message about "The Cross".., and never did.



No one is denying that after Jesus was back in Heaven, Paul became the "Apostle to the Gentiles" in the "time of the Gentiles".

You're hedging and waffling, sometimes stating things correctly, and sometimes still defending your own claim that not even Paul would defend, nor did he. It's enough.

 

[Behold]

You're hedging and waffling, sometimes stating things correctly, and sometimes still defending your own claim that not even Paul would defend, nor did he. It's enough.

What is "enough" is dealing with someone who makes false statements, and says..>>"see what you said".

You should be honest, and not be that person.

Listen up @ScottA .

Paul never claimed that His Gospel was self derived, nor did i say Paul's Gospel was self derived.

So, be honest next time, and we can perhaps have a conversation.

 

[Wrangler]

Good question.

Matt is teaching that.. .and Paul explains it as ... "I die daily"....and in Romans 12 = "present your body to God, as a living sacrifice as your reasonable service"... is how you carry your Cross.

Where the heretics grab this concept and run it into a theological ditch, is when they redefine this daily self sacrifice is how you keep yourself saved, or not.

So, Jesus did teach about the cross and his example, his death on the cross expanded that theme infinitely. The lesson is something like in keeping your life, you will lose it but in giving up your life, you will live eternally.

Required, a pre-requisite is voluntarily giving up control to God. Tough lesson that I struggle against daily.

 

[Behold]

So, Jesus did teach about the cross and his example, his death on the cross expanded that theme infinitely.

"taking us your cross" is not the Same as Jesus hanging on His..

See, The Cross of Christ is the 2 Corin 5:19 reconciliation offer, whereby John 3:16 is defined..

Whereas... taking up the cross, as a believer, .... has nothing to do with hanging on it to be saved or to stay saved.


What Christ's Cross is doing is not His Discipleship...its His SACRIFICE of His Blood and Death.

Our Cross, is our discipleship, and in fact, a person can be a disciple of Christ and not be born again.

Find them here..

"I never KNEW YOU.........Depart from ME".....

See those?
They were casting out devils in "Jesus's name".. obviously disciples of Christ yet, went to hell.