Why does everyone seem to need to come up with their own belief and doctrinal formula?

[ScottA]

For the Christian.........there is only Paul's Doctrine.

Anything else is going to be wrong.

There is a reason that Paul wrote most of the New Testament Epistles.
Its because the "church Doctrine" comes from Paul.

The church doctrine--which many do believe, did not all come from Paul (but I get your point).

We do know that the other apostles also contributed with their quotes and testimonies of Christ. But more importantly--it is important for the church today to realize that their/our own perceived doctrine in part came from "false teachers" (2 Peter 2:1). Many church leaders will tell you that is not true--even against what is written and from God.

 

[Behold]

The church doctrine--which many do believe, did not all come from Paul (but I get your point).

It all comes from Paul. the "doctrine for the church" ..
Paul is the only Apostle who specified it as His., and not just the "GOSPEL".
He's the one who tells us to attend to the "Doctrine" and that is His Doctrine for the "body of Christ".

When Paul explains that we are to "follow me as i follow Christ" then that is the blue-print for Discipleship, for us all.

Even Peter, said that Paul's Letters are "SCRIPTURE"....and that was before Peter died, or a NT ever showed up with Paul's letters in them.

 

[ScottA]

It all comes from Paul. the "doctrine for the church" ..
Paul is the only Apostle who specified it as His., and not just the "GOSPEL".
He's the one who tells us to attend to the "Doctrine" and that is His Doctrine for the "body of Christ".

When Paul explains that we are to "follow me as i follow Christ" then that is the blue-print for Discipleship, for us all.

Even Peter, said that Paul's Letters are "SCRIPTURE"....and that was before Peter died, or a NT ever showed up with Paul's letters in them.

I said I get your point. But you are not addressing everything. Is the "Apostles Creed" not a "church doctrine?" Right or wrong, many things make up the current church doctrine.

If you feel that we all should follow Paul--even Paul said we should not.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

For the Christian.........there is only Paul's Doctrine.

Anything else is going to be wrong.

There is a reason that Paul wrote most of the New Testament Epistles.
Its because the "church Doctrine" comes from Paul.

??? so jesus doctrine is wrong?
Peters doctrine is wrong?
James doctrine is wrong?
John's doctrine is wrong?
there is only pauls?

 

[Behold]

??? so jesus doctrine is wrong?

In the NT, there is a verse that Paul gives us that says.. this phrase.

"Rightly divide the word"...

This means...>>>"the bible has divisions in it, that dictate, not just the "seasons and the times", but also, "who is the verse talking to".


Let me show you what this means.... Reader.

You have a Old Testament and a New Testament.....and they are not the same. The OT is JEWISH, the NT is "Body of Christ", until The Revelation shows us that change back to the Jews.. as : Trib-Grt Trib.

You have an old covenant, and a New Covenant, and they are not the Same.

You have Moses's Law, and the 10 commandments, and you have God's Grace as The Cross of Christ, and these are not the same.

So, when we read the NT........we have to "rightly divide" where there are divisions... that show us CHANGES, regarding how God was doing something.. vs.. how God is now doing something different.. .vs, how God is going to do something ELSE in the Future.

"rightly divide the word"..

If not, you wrongly divide. And that means, you're not YET able to discern the differences that we have to SEE in the NT, so that we dont apply what isn't for the Body of Christ to ourselves.........and there is a lot of that, in the NT that is not for the Christian, as DOCTRINE.

What is the KEY?

Its simple.
Study Paul's Epistles.. and always view any verse that came Before Jesus was Crucified, as seen only in the LIGHT of The Cross.

I'll give you an example..

Jesus said....>>"if you dont forgive.......then God wont forgive you.""

VS..

After THE CROSS...........

Paul said..>>>>"We forgive, because we are FORGIVEN"...= already.

See that Change?
So, if you apply Jesus's verse to yourself, and you are a Christian, you've just "wrong divided" the word of God.

Peters doctrine is wrong?

Peter is not a doctrine person.

Paul is your Theologian.
Paul is your "doctrine giver".. He is the Teacher of the NT Doctrine.

Everything we need to know, regarding being a Christian.........Paul says....>"follow me as i follow Christ"........and that is not a suggestion.

James doctrine is wrong?

Again, this Apostle is not really a doctrine person.

Most people have read that James talks about "dead faith", and that is not "doctrine"..

John's doctrine is wrong?

John teaches a good bit of Paul's doctrine.
In fact.....John 3:16, is John preaching Paul's Gospel.....tho its in John's style.

You have Jesus being "given".. to the "World" (On the Cross);...... And you have "faith in Christ".. as "Justification By faith", and that is Paul's Doctrine.

there is only pauls?

Its Paul's Doctrine that we have to learn, as this is the foundation of Discipleship. Its also the foundation of Christianity as a "local assembly".

 

[PGS11]

Jesus preached the coming of the kingdom of God and the forgiveness of sins Paul teaches justification by faith in the death and resurrection of Jesus which could not be taught until after the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus.They are not incompatible they go together there is no conflict unless you make one.

 

[MatthewG]

Thanks Matt. I don't want to hijack this thread with that topic, which has already been discussed elsewhere. I was only curious as to your belief. Thanks again.

No worries. I don’t mind sharing my beliefs; but honestly people should go through the Bible, and address their questions for themselves. It’s one of the most difficult things to do, as our flesh is weak, but the spirit is willing. I’m gonna hope; that is hope. To go through the New Testament by the time winter ends in three months with a few chapters a day and reading the new living translation version of the Bible.
Probably not many people’s favorite version, and it’s not a study as that gets us deeper even more revealing. Studying is more profitable than reading but reading gets us a going and helps the spirit to be stronger where the flesh is weak.

Here is a personal reading I been using since the start of winter. I advise people to read, but also to study as that in the end will lead us to answers we may not have known about. One personal study I have done is on the the cup of Gods wrath and Gods anger is not said to last forever. It took several hours to go through and through it I didn’t have much hope but when I got the diamond I was glad. The personal study Bible I use for myself is Thompson Chain Reference. I like to use books more than the internet as I believe the brain has to work harder.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

In the NT, there is a verse that Paul gives us that says.. this phrase.

"Rightly divide the word"...

This means...>>>"the bible has divisions in it, that dictate, not just the "seasons and the times", but also, "who is the verse talking to".


Let me show you what this means.... Reader.

You have a Old Testament and a New Testament.....and they are not the same. The OT is JEWISH, the NT is "Body of Christ", until The Revelation shows us that change back to the Jews.. as : Trib-Grt Trib.

You have an old covenant, and a New Covenant, and they are not the Same.

You have Moses's Law, and the 10 commandments, and you have God's Grace as The Cross of Christ, and these are not the same.

So, when we read the NT........we have to "rightly divide" where there are divisions... that show us CHANGES, regarding how God was doing something.. vs.. how God is now doing something different.. .vs, how God is going to do something ELSE in the Future.

"rightly divide the word"..

If not, you wrongly divide. And that means, you're not YET able to discern the differences that we have to SEE in the NT, so that we dont apply what isn't for the Body of Christ to ourselves.........and there is a lot of that, in the NT that is not for the Christian, as DOCTRINE.

What is the KEY?

Its simple.
Study Paul's Epistles.. and always view any verse that came Before Jesus was Crucified, as seen only in the LIGHT of The Cross.

I'll give you an example..

Jesus said....>>"if you dont forgive.......then God wont forgive you.""

VS..

After THE CROSS...........

Paul said..>>>>"We forgive, because we are FORGIVEN"...= already.

See that Change?
So, if you apply Jesus's verse to yourself, and you are a Christian, you've just "wrong divided" the word of God.





Peter is not a doctrine person.

Paul is your Theologian.
Paul is your "doctrine giver".. He is the Teacher of the NT Doctrine.

Everything we need to know, regarding being a Christian.........Paul says....>"follow me as i follow Christ"........and that is not a suggestion.

so I can just throw the book of peter out. ok..

Again, this Apostle is not really a doctrine person.

Most people have read that James talks about "dead faith", and that is not "doctrine"..

James has alot of doctrine applicable to the church and me

John teaches a good bit of Paul's doctrine.
In fact.....John 3:16, is John preaching Paul's Gospel.....tho its in John's style.

lol. my friend, the more you talk. the more I worry about you

John taught Jesus doctrine.

You have Jesus being "given".. to the "World" (On the Cross);...... And you have "faith in Christ".. as "Justification By faith", and that is Paul's Doctrine.

Paul had Johns doctrine. who got it from Jesus.. Actually they all were taught by Jesus.

Its Paul's Doctrine that we have to learn, as this is the foundation of Discipleship. Its also the foundation of Christianity as a "local assembly".

I need to learn the whole word.

In pauls own words

2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Jesus preached the coming of the kingdom of God and the forgiveness of sins Paul teaches justification by faith in the death and resurrection of Jesus which could not be taught until after the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus.They are not incompatible they go together there is no conflict unless you make one.

Jesus taught justification, or salvation by faith, in John 3, John 4, John 5, John 6 and John 7.

 

[Behold]

so I can just throw the book of peter out. ok..

There is no book of Peter.....There is a Bible and He has 2 epistles in it..... , and if i were you, i'd read them, but spend your time studying Paul's Epistles., 95%, or you'll remain as a Hebrews 6:1 for the rest of your life.

James has alot of doctrine applicable to the church and me

James is not your church Doctrine, but much of James is excellent as instruction and as knowledge.

lol. my friend, the more you talk. the more I worry about you

John taught Jesus doctrine.

If you knew Jesus's doctrine, and didnt just want to argue and be silly, then you'd not be here trying to avoid Paul's 11 Epistles.

Its not smart to keep avoiding them, but, you have free will to do what you want @Eternally Grateful

Paul had Johns doctrine. who got it from Jesus.. Actually they all were taught by Jesus.

The Revelation that is Paul's Doctrine, came from Jesus to Paul, after Jesus was back in Heaven.
You dont know Paul's doctrine, and you're not interested in finding out.

Im ok with that, as im here to answer whatever im asked, but its for the real students of the word....who read what i post, and study it, and most of them, do it silently., and they study Paul's epistles, and then they realize...>>"Paul sounds just like Behold".
Actually *(i just sound like Paul's doctrine".
Occasionally they pose a question, or they come to my inbox and i get to help even more

What i do with people who just want to argue....like you.. is i use your posts to teach those who are really interested in Learning some NT.

I need to learn the whole word.

And yet you haven't, learned it yet.
Not even the basics of the NT, and that is why you believe you can lose your salvation.
So, if you are going to get your theology nailed down as God wants you to have it, then you have to study Paul's Theology....His Epistles, after you do what Hebrews 13:9 says to do with your "heart"... (KJV).

2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,

So, you dont understand that Paul is not saying that the Scriptures is only Given for Doctrine.
As if that was what it meant then when you read "And they paid Judas "...
= So, is that Doctrine for the Church?
Is it doctrine for the Church for Paul to tell Timothy to drink some wine for his Stress?
A.) Not quite.
Maybe you think it is, as you dont seem to be thinking very much, ive noticed.

Too busy trying to argue.

Listen..., Paul is DIVIDING the word of God into..

1.) Doctrine

2.) Reproof

3.) Instruction

 

[Behold]

Jesus taught justification, or salvation by faith, in John 3, John 4, John 5, John 6 and John 7.

Its not that simple..
For example..

"you must be born again'...... is not the same as "for God so loved the World that He gave His only Begotten.".

The reason this can be understand as connected is because once we know some Theology.......we can connect things.


But what you have to see......is this.............. Can a person who is not a Christian read it, and understand..= THE CROSS of Christ.

And you can't as an unbeliever .... understand The Cross if you read "you must be born again".... so, that is not the "gospel".

See that?

The Gospel is designed to bring the LOST to the CROSS...........not to water baptism.

Also the Gospel, is given in the "time of the Gentiles' and Jesus was not in this situation.. on earth.
Even Peter didnt preach the Gospel, in Acts 2.

The Gospel, came from Paul.........after Jesus was back in Heaven.

This is why Paul said...>"MY GOSPEL"..3 times..., and that is "the Preaching of the Cross"... which is our Justification by Faith.

So, the Reason that Jesus didnt preach what Paul preaches, in John 3-7, is because Jesus hadn't died on The Cross yet, to offer His Blood and His Death, as our "Justification".

Its Like this. @Eternally Grateful

NO CROSS = No "gift of Salvation".

NO CROSS - No """Gospel of the Grace of God."""

 

[Eternally Grateful]

There is no book of Peter.....There is a Bible and He has 2 epistles in it..... , and if i were you, i'd read them, but spend your time studying Paul's Epistles., 95%, or you'll remain as a Hebrews 6:1 for the rest of your life.



James is not your church Doctrine, but much of James is excellent as instruction and as knowledge.



If you knew Jesus's doctrine, and didnt just want to argue and be silly, then you'd not be here trying to avoid Paul's 11 Epistles.

Its not smart to keep avoiding them, but, you have free will to do what you want @Eternally Grateful




The Revelation that is Paul's Doctrine, came from Jesus to Paul, after Jesus was back in Heaven.
You dont know Paul's doctrine, and you're not interested in finding out.

Im ok with that, as im here to answer whatever im asked, but its for the real students of the word....who read what i post, and study it, and most of them, do it silently., and they study Paul's epistles, and then they realize...>>"Paul sounds just like Behold".
Actually *(i just sound like Paul's doctrine".
Occasionally they pose a question, or they come to my inbox and i get to help even more

What i do with people who just want to argue....like you.. is i use your posts to teach those who are really interested in Learning some NT.



And yet you haven't, learned it yet.
Not even the basics of the NT, and that is why you believe you can lose your salvation.
So, if you are going to get your theology nailed down as God wants you to have it, then you have to study Paul's Theology....His Epistles, after you do what Hebrews 13:9 says to do with your "heart"... (KJV).





So, you dont understand that Paul is not saying that the Scriptures is only Given for Doctrine.
As if that was what it meant then when you read "And they paid Judas "...
= So, is that Doctrine for the Church?
Is it doctrine for the Church for Paul to tell Timothy to drink some wine for his Stress?
A.) Not quite.
Maybe you think it is, as you dont seem to be thinking very much, ive noticed.

Too busy trying to argue.

Listen..., Paul is DIVIDING the word of God into..

1.) Doctrine

2.) Reproof

3.) Instruction

Dude you have serious issues

I can’t anymore

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Its not that simple..

actually yes it is. Unless like you you want to make things difficult and complicated to make yourself look good

 

[ScottA]

In the NT, there is a verse that Paul gives us that says.. this phrase.

"Rightly divide the word"...

This means...>>>"the bible has divisions in it, that dictate, not just the "seasons and the times", but also, "who is the verse talking to".


Let me show you what this means.... Reader.

You have a Old Testament and a New Testament.....and they are not the same. The OT is JEWISH, the NT is "Body of Christ", until The Revelation shows us that change back to the Jews.. as : Trib-Grt Trib.

You have an old covenant, and a New Covenant, and they are not the Same.

You have Moses's Law, and the 10 commandments, and you have God's Grace as The Cross of Christ, and these are not the same.

So, when we read the NT........we have to "rightly divide" where there are divisions... that show us CHANGES, regarding how God was doing something.. vs.. how God is now doing something different.. .vs, how God is going to do something ELSE in the Future.

"rightly divide the word"..

If not, you wrongly divide. And that means, you're not YET able to discern the differences that we have to SEE in the NT, so that we dont apply what isn't for the Body of Christ to ourselves.........and there is a lot of that, in the NT that is not for the Christian, as DOCTRINE.

What is the KEY?

Its simple.
Study Paul's Epistles.. and always view any verse that came Before Jesus was Crucified, as seen only in the LIGHT of The Cross.

I'll give you an example..

Jesus said....>>"if you dont forgive.......then God wont forgive you.""

VS..

After THE CROSS...........

Paul said..>>>>"We forgive, because we are FORGIVEN"...= already.

See that Change?
So, if you apply Jesus's verse to yourself, and you are a Christian, you've just "wrong divided" the word of God.





Peter is not a doctrine person.

Paul is your Theologian.
Paul is your "doctrine giver".. He is the Teacher of the NT Doctrine.

Everything we need to know, regarding being a Christian.........Paul says....>"follow me as i follow Christ"........and that is not a suggestion.



Again, this Apostle is not really a doctrine person.

Most people have read that James talks about "dead faith", and that is not "doctrine"..



John teaches a good bit of Paul's doctrine.
In fact.....John 3:16, is John preaching Paul's Gospel.....tho its in John's style.

You have Jesus being "given".. to the "World" (On the Cross);...... And you have "faith in Christ".. as "Justification By faith", and that is Paul's Doctrine.




Its Paul's Doctrine that we have to learn, as this is the foundation of Discipleship. Its also the foundation of Christianity as a "local assembly".

And there we have it--claims of doctrine against the whole counsel of God. Of which Paul himself warned:

"Now I say this, that each of you says, “I am of Paul,” or “I am of Apollos,” or “I am of Cephas,” or “I am of Christ.” 13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?" (1 Corinthians 1:12-13).​

"For when one says, “I am of Paul,” and another, “I am of Apollos,” are you not carnal? 5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers through whom you believed, as the Lord gave to each one?" (1 Corinthians 3:4-5).​

​

"Ministers" do not make up their own doctrine...and if they do, they are not sent by "the Lord."

 

[Behold]

"Now I say this, that each of you says, “I am of Paul,” or “I am of Apollos,” or “I am of Cephas,” or “I am of Christ.” ​

Paul was talking to the most carnal local assembly in the NT.
The Corinthians... and his message, that is your verse was talking to them........about their issues..

Whereas..

Paul says this..

"Be a follower of ME....... as i follow Christ"..

See that?
In THIS verse, he's teaching doctrine.......as His Theology, is "church doctrine" so, to be a follower of This Apostle... is to study his life, his spirituality, and emulate it, and also learn His doctrine, as its the doctrine for the body of Christ.

 

[ScottA]

Paul was talking to the most carnal local assembly in the NT.
The Corinthians... and his message, that is your verse was talking to them........about their issues..

Whereas..

Paul says this..

"Be a follower of ME....... as i follow Christ"..

See that?
In THIS verse, he's teaching doctrine.......as His Theology, is "church doctrine" so, to be a follower of This Apostle... is to study his life, his spirituality, and emulate it, and also learn His doctrine, as its the doctrine for the body of Christ.

There is nothing wrong with what Paul said or taught. But to limit what he said as being "local" only after God has made it eternally applicable to all--that is wrong.

 

[Behold]

There is nothing wrong with what Paul said or taught. But to limit what he said as being "local" only after God has made it eternally applicable to all--that is wrong.

There is a reason that Paul wrote most of the Epistles and all the Church Doctrine.

Notice that no other Apostle told you to......>"Be a follower of ME......as i follow Christ"/

No other Apostle told you that the Gospel is "MY Gospel".

No other Apostle said that any other Gospel is not just wrong but it this....... Galatians 1:8

Also....All scripture is given for :

Doctrine

Reproof

Correction

Instruction.


But not all scripture is : Doctrine

 

[Cyd]

There is no book of Peter.....There is a Bible and He has 2 epistles in it..... , and if i were you, i'd read them, but spend your time studying Paul's Epistles., 95%, or you'll remain as a Hebrews 6:1 for the rest of your life.

@Behold I pray for you that you come to know the gospels and Follow Christ and know His words 95% of the time and not following a man Paul so that you come to know the doctrine from Christ Himself not Paul. Then you may get to this point. It is a big "IF"
John 15:7 (KJV) If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.

Abide in who? Christ not Paul. Who's words? Christ's not Pauls as Pauls words will pass away.. it is Christ's words that never pass away.
I pray your pushing of Paul over Christ as you tend to always do, does not make you hear depart from me, I never knew you.

Spend 95% in the gospels, know Christ ... give Paul just 5% you tend to abide in Paul and push that.

 

[Behold]

@Behold I pray for you that you come to know the gospels and Follow Christ and know His words 95%

Thank you, as i can always use Prayer.

Dont worry about my Salvation, as its literally found "In Christ". and "seated in Heavenly places"... forever.

Listen @Cyd.. What you need to do, is research "Pauline Theology"......and then research why Paul wrote "Church doctrine" inside of His Epistles that make up most of the NT Epistles.

Then, research the Reason that Jesus only chose Paul, to be "the apostle to the Gentiles" that defines the NT "Church Age"

Study all that, and then study these.

This first... = Galatians 1:8

Romans 3:21-28
Hebrews 13:9
2 Corin 5:19
John 3:17
Romans 4:8
Colossians 2:11

 

[ScottA]

There is a reason that Paul wrote most of the Epistles and all the Church Doctrine.

Notice that no other Apostle told you to......>"Be a follower of ME......as i follow Christ"/

No other Apostle told you that the Gospel is "MY Gospel".

No other Apostle said that any other Gospel is not just wrong but it this....... Galatians 1:8

Also....All scripture is given for :

Doctrine

Reproof

Correction

Instruction.


But not all scripture is : Doctrine

This is your explanation, so noted:

"All scripture is given for: Doctrine" "But not all scripture is : Doctrine."