When the saints are overcome

[ewq1938]

A believer who dies for their faith is absolutely a positive thing, it’s an honor and a privilege to give one’s life for their Lord.


No, I haven’t denied that. The saints that are overcome are OT saints because NT saints can’t be overcome.

John wrote Rev after the cross and in the NT age so they are not OT saints. I already showed the war on the saints is a war on Christians anyways. Also, you are wrong about NT saints not able to be overcome. They have been overcome for centuries and will continue to be overcome until Christ returns.

Rev 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

More NT saints being overcome.

 

[grafted branch]

John wrote Rev after the cross and in the NT age so they are not OT saints.

Galatians 2:9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.

This agreement was never rescinded, John wrote the book of Revelation to the circumcision.

Also, you are wrong about NT saints not able to be overcome. They have been overcome for centuries and will continue to be overcome until Christ returns.

Ok, whatever. If you want to consider yourself an overcome Christian go ahead.

 

[David in NJ]

Galatians 2:9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.

This agreement was never rescinded, John wrote the book of Revelation to the circumcision.


Ok, whatever. If you want to consider yourself an overcome Christian go ahead.

This agreement was never rescinded, John wrote the book of Revelation to the circumcision.

COMPLETELY FALSE

 

[grafted branch]

COMPLETELY FALSE

What’s your proof this is false, what verse declares this agreement as being nullified?

 

[David in NJ]

What’s your proof this is false, what verse declares this agreement as being nullified?

The very FIRST sentence out of God's Mouth says to you = "STOP saying this is to OT saints" = it is a lie to say this!!!

Rev 1:1 - "This is the revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants what must soon come to pass."

 

[grafted branch]

The very FIRST sentence out of God's Mouth says to you = "STOP saying this is to OT saints" = it is a lie to say this!!!

Rev 1:1 - "This is the revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants what must soon come to pass."

So were Jews during the first century not considered servants? It might be entirely possible that the Revelation was given specifically to John because it involved the Jews more so than Gentiles. God could’ve certainly given Paul the visions in Revelation instead of John, but John was the chosen person and it very likely had to do with the Galatians 2:9 agreement.

 

[ewq1938]

Galatians 2:9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.

This agreement was never rescinded, John wrote the book of Revelation to the circumcision.


Ok, whatever. If you want to consider yourself an overcome Christian go ahead.

LOL, you ignored something.

Rev 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

More NT saints being overcome.

 

[David in NJ]

So were Jews during the first century not considered servants? It might be entirely possible that the Revelation was given specifically to John because it involved the Jews more so than Gentiles. God could’ve certainly given Paul the visions in Revelation instead of John, but John was the chosen person and it very likely had to do with the Galatians 2:9 agreement.

i fully expected this from you


Let's OPEN UP them eyes so we can SEE the TRUTH from Revelation chapter 1 by GOD"s Definition of who His servants actually are.

Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy,
and blessed are those who hear and obey what is written in it, because the time is near.

Only the NT saints "hear and obey" the LORD Jesus Christ = Revelation is all about the LORD Jesus Christ

Revelation 1:1 - This is the revelation of Jesus Christ..........for His servants

 

[grafted branch]

i fully expected this from you


Let's OPEN UP them eyes so we can SEE the TRUTH from Revelation chapter 1 by GOD"s Definition of who His servants actually are.

Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy,
and blessed are those who hear and obey what is written in it, because the time is near.

Only the NT saints "hear and obey" the LORD Jesus Christ = Revelation is all about the LORD Jesus Christ

Revelation 1:1 - This is the revelation of Jesus Christ..........for His servants

Revelation 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

If Revelation is meant for us today, why didn’t someone like Joseph Smith who wrote the Book of Mormon have the plagues added to him? He added to the book.

 

[David in NJ]

Revelation 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

If Revelation is meant for us today, why didn’t someone like Joseph Smith who wrote the Book of Mormon have the plagues added to him? He added to the book.

Where is Joseph Smith now???

Did you read this in Revelation chapter 22 ???

22:16 - “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to give you this testimony for the churches.

You will not find any OT saints in the NT churches = since they are all dead.

 

[grafted branch]

Where is Joseph Smith now???

Did you read this in Revelation chapter 22 ???

Joseph Smith is dead now but the question is did he ever experience the plagues. If he didn’t then that would be proof that Revelation was written to those specific seven churches in the first century.

Do you have any evidence that Joseph Smith experienced anything like noisome grievous sores or the sea turning to blood?

You will not find any OT saints in the NT churches = since they are all dead.

Right, that’s why Revelation was written to those in the first century when OT saints were still alive.

 

[David in NJ]

Joseph Smith is dead now but the question is did he ever experience the plagues. If he didn’t then that would be proof that Revelation was written to those specific seven churches in the first century.

Do you have any evidence that Joseph Smith experienced anything like noisome grievous sores or the sea turning to blood?

God has Joseph Smith suffering under those plagues right now!
After death comes JUDGEMENT

Right, that’s why Revelation was written to those in the first century when OT saints were still alive.

WRONG AGAIN - the OT saints all died off after JESUS rose from the dead = only NT saints remain to this day


Revelation 22:16-17
I, Jesus, have sent My angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the bright Morning Star.”

The Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” Let the one who hears say, “Come!”
And let the one who is thirsty come, and the one who desires the water of life drink freely.

 

[grafted branch]

WRONG AGAIN - the OT saints all died off after JESUS rose from the dead = only NT saints remain to this day

If that is true then why did it seem good to the Holy Spirit to have different burdens for Gentiles than Jews after the cross?

Acts 15:28For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; 29That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well

 

[grafted branch]

God has Joseph Smith suffering under those plagues right now!
After death comes JUDGEMENT

Revelation 16:1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.

The plagues take place on earth, I don’t see the sea turning to blood. How can Joseph Smith be currently experiencing the plagues that take place on earth?

 

[David in NJ]

Revelation 16:1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.

The plagues take place on earth, I don’t see the sea turning to blood. How can Joseph Smith be currently experiencing the plagues that take place on earth?

Hebrews 9:27 - And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment,

God is Judge and only HE decides what, where, when, how and to whom

 

[David in NJ]

If that is true then why did it seem good to the Holy Spirit to have different burdens for Gentiles than Jews after the cross?

Acts 15:28For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; 29That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well

EASY PEASY - Acts is the Beginning of the Holy Spirit outpouring.

The Apostles were still being taught and guided by the Lord Jesus Christ thru the Holy Spirit.

Jews were adjusting to trusting in the Lord Jesus Christ and were LEARNING from the LORD that the Law had become OBSOLETE

Both Jews and Gentiles did not need anything from the OT Law concerning observances of rituals which became obsolete.

In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body [h]of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. 13And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, 14having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. 15Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.

16So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a [j]festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17which are a shadow of things to come, but the [k]substance is of Christ. 18Let no one cheat you of your reward, taking delight in false humility and worship of angels, intruding into those things which he has [l]not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, 19and not holding fast to the Head, from whom all the body, nourished and knit together by joints and ligaments, grows with the increase that is from God.

20[m]Therefore, if you died with Christ from the basic principles of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations— 21“Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle,” 22which all concern things which perish with the using—according to the commandments and doctrines of men? 23These things indeed have an appearance of wisdom in self-imposed religion, false humility, and [n]neglect of the body, but are of no value against the indulgence of the flesh.

 

[grafted branch]

Hebrews 9:27 - And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment,

God is Judge and only HE decides what, where, when, how and to whom

I agree, do you have those who have added to the book being resurrected prior to the plagues in order for them to experience the plagues on earth? If so where in the Bible is that resurrection found.

 

[grafted branch]

Jews were adjusting to trusting in the Lord Jesus Christ and were LEARNING from the LORD that the Law had become OBSOLETE

Acts 21:20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:

According to Biblehub Acts 21 took place in 59AD. How long do you suppose this learning curve took? If Jesus died in 30AD and Acts 21 took place in 59AD, that’s 29 years. Why were there still many thousands of Jews which both believed and were zealous for the law that many years after the cross?

 

[ewq1938]

Joseph Smith is dead now but the question is did he ever experience the plagues. If he didn’t then that would be proof that Revelation was written to those specific seven churches in the first century.

Do you have any evidence that Joseph Smith experienced anything like noisome grievous sores or the sea turning to blood?


Right, that’s why Revelation was written to those in the first century when OT saints were still alive.

It became the NT when Christ died so from that time they were NT saints, Christians observing the new covenant.

 

[David in NJ]

Acts 21:20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:

According to Biblehub Acts 21 took place in 59AD. How long do you suppose this learning curve took? If Jesus died in 30AD and Acts 21 took place in 59AD, that’s 29 years. Why were there still many thousands of Jews which both believed and were zealous for the law that many years after the cross?

This is the outcome of those who seek to follow the law.


When they heard this, they glorified God. Then they said to Paul, “You see, brother, how many thousands of Jews have believed, and all of them are zealous for the law. 21But they are under the impression that you teach all the Jews who live among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or observe our customs. 22What then should we do? They will certainly hear that you have come.

When the seven days were almost over, some Jews from the province of Asiab saw Paul at the temple. They stirred up the whole crowd and seized him, 28crying out, “Men of Israel, help us! This is the man who teaches everyone everywhere against our people and against our law and against this place. Furthermore, he has brought Greeks into the temple and defiled this holy place.” 29For they had previously seen Trophimus the Ephesian with him in the city, and they assumed that Paul had brought him into the temple.

30The whole city was stirred up, and the people rushed together. They seized Paul and dragged him out of the temple, and at once the gates were shut. 31While they were trying to kill him, the commander of the Roman regimentc received a report that all Jerusalem was in turmoil. 32Immediately he took some soldiers and centurions and ran down to the crowd. When the people saw the commander and the soldiers, they stopped beating Paul.

33The commander came up and arrested Paul, ordering that he be bound with two chains. Then he asked who he was and what he had done.

34Some in the crowd were shouting one thing, and some another. And since the commander could not get at the truth because of the uproar, he ordered that Paul be brought into the barracks. 35When Paul reached the steps, he had to be carried by the soldiers because of the violence of the mob. 36For the crowd that followed him kept shouting, “Away with him!”