Revelation 7: 4-8 The 144000

[CTK]

Sorry, Rom. 11:25-26 is to be read now in the past tense. The Messiah/Savior did come from Heavenly Sion to Israel in the flesh first, to be the sin bearer of ALL the world as the Lamb of God, past, present and future.
However, upon His Glorious return, in flaming (fiery) fire, He will suddenly come, being "without sin", no longer as the sin bearer.
Heb. 9:28.


Sorry, only through faith in Jesus NOW, shall they "become one stick", being born again New creatures in Christ. He Himself is the "valley that they are to flee to".

Sorry, all that began on the day of Pentecost.
Acts 10:44-45.

Surely, you DO KNOW that BOTH the Jews and Gentiles, who are born again, have been doing that since Pentecost.

The hour of God's judgment commenced ever since the death and resurrection of Jesus. It's found in John 3:18.

Sorry, the 144,000 are those of Israel who were of faith in the Promise to come, UNDER the OC. Malachi 3:16; Rev. 6:9-11. Therefore, for those whom God Remembered, He did not forget them. So also said the repentant thief on the cross. Luke 23:42

Sorry, Look again to those whom God Rembered! But this time in Mat. 27:50-54

Yes indeed. The symbolic 144,000 were sealed by the permanent Gift of the Holy Spirit, right after Jesus Himself gave up the ghost. Mat. 27:50-54

Okay, I am glad to learn you took the time to read it! Have a merry Christmas and a Happy New Year, God bless.

 

[Earburner]

Okay, I am glad to learn you took the time to read it! Have a merry Christmas and a Happy New Year, God bless.

Thank you CTK. And a merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to you also. May God Bless you also!!
BTW, did you ever think on Rev. 11:10 as prophecy, still being fulfilled?
[10] And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

 

[Earburner]

Jesus is NOT Michael.


Daniel was very clearly told that NONE except Prince Michael/Christ Himself held the correct interpretation (Dan. 10:21), before he was commanded by Prince Michael/Christ to seal the book until the end of time (Dan. 12:1-4), when He (Prince Michael/Christ) would break the seals and correctly explain it (Rev. 5:1-5).

Please think about that very carefully.

Final Note: There may be a third fulfillment of this prophecy in the near future, immediately preceding Judgment Day, when Prince Michael/Christ will shed the body He is currently using (Matt. 24:28-30) to complete His Mission and be seen coming in the “Clouds” with the “Eagles”, as The Commander of the heavenly host (James 5:4, Rev. 1:7, Rev. 12:7).

https://gibraltar-messenger.net/jahtruth/daniels-70-weeks-correctly-explained-at-last/#:~:text=Daniel%20was%20very,Email

J.

Yes! Michael (the archangel) is an alias for the name Jesus, of which was known of in the Eternity of God's Heavenly kingdom. The angel Gabriel had knowledge of His true name, when he said His Name to Mary before His birth.

Why all the secrecy??
For one, Satan knew who Jesus is, but he was not to know anything about the time of His appearance in the world.
Rom. 16[25] Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
1 Cor. 2
[7] But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
[8] Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would NOT have crucified the Lord of glory.

IF that had happened, that Jesus was not crucified, there would have never been the forgiveness of our sins, by God. Nor would it be that we could ever recieve the Gift of Eternal Life, through the giving of His Eternal Holy Spirit, to all who ask for Him.
1 John 5:11-13; Luke 11:13.

 

[Earburner]

No, that's wrong. God is saying there is no difference between believers not that there aren't still different tribes and ethnicities of ppl in the world.

If you are "born again" of the Holy Spirit, and therefore have become a New creature (creation), tribes, ethnicities or even family attachments have no jurisdiction over those who are New creatures, who are quite literally a new creation of God by His Spirit.
No longer are they only "flesh and blood", but rather they are now flesh and blood, and Spirit.
Rom. 8:8-9
[8] So then they that are in the flesh [only] cannot please God.
[9] But ye are not in the flesh [only], but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

 

[ewq1938]

Yes! Michael (the archangel) is an alias for the name Jesus

No, it isn't. Michael is a created arch angel, Jesus is uncreated and is God and it was Jesus who created Michael and all angels. Sounds like you believe in Jehovah Witness doctrine.

 

[Earburner]

No, it isn't. Michael is a created arch angel, Jesus is uncreated and is God and it was Jesus who created Michael and all angels. Sounds like you believe in Jehovah Witness doctrine.

I'm Not a JW, nor a believer of their doctrine.

But I do say this, as the Lord has given it to me, through the mind of Christ within me:
"All of the churches have SOME of His truth, but NONE of the churches have all of His truth".

So then, how can you prove against the scriptures I referenced (post #83), that they do speak to the fact of the mystery of Christ, the Living Gospel, who was kept secret, since the world began?

Of Michael being a literal archangel speaking, please show the scriptures where he does.
You can't. Therefore, your opinion is no match for the truth of the scriptures.

 

[ewq1938]

I'm Not a JW, nor a believer of their doctrine.

But I do say this, as the Lord has given it to me, through the mind of Christ within me:
"All of the churches have SOME of His truth, but NONE of the churches have all of His truth".

So then, how can you prove against the scriptures I referenced (post #83), that they do speak to the fact of the mystery of Christ, the Living Gospel, who was kept secret, since the world began?

Total, unrelated NONSENSE. This is bad doctrine because NEVER does the bible ever say or imply that Jesus and Michael are the same person. It is one of the highest heresies and should be a banned topic at all Christian forums worldwide.

 

[Earburner]

Total, unrelated NONSENSE. This is bad doctrine because NEVER does the bible ever say or imply that Jesus and Michael are the same person. It is one of the highest heresies and should be a banned topic at all Christian forums worldwide.

Do you understand who is speaking in Prov. 8:22-31?
What does verses 30-31 say to you?

(Be sure to study the context of verses 22-31 before you answer).
[30] Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;
[31] Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.

Merry Christmas to you "ewq1938", and may God Bless!

 

[Timtofly]

There certainly IS a resurrection that the 144,000 experienced. The 144,000 being "redeemed from the earth" is speaking of the "redemption of the body" out of the ground in the bodily-resurrection process. They were "without fault", and there was "no guile" in their mouths, which is only possible in the glorified state of the resurrected righteous. Also, they were termed "virgins", since there is no marriage or giving in marriage in the resurrected state.

The "First-fruits" harvest term for the 144,000 tells us that these were the first mass group of resurrected saints to be "harvested" out of the grave along with "Christ the First-fruits" who was "risen from the dead" in order to receive that title.

You cannot sweep the Matthew 27:52-53 account under the rug. THEY were the 144,000 Jewish "First-fruits", along with "Christ the First-fruits" who rose from the dead in that "FIRST resurrection" event.

Which verse claims they physically died?

 

[MonoBiblical]

There certainly IS a resurrection that the 144,000 experienced. The 144,000 being "redeemed from the earth" is speaking of the "redemption of the body" out of the ground in the bodily-resurrection process. They were "without fault", and there was "no guile" in their mouths, which is only possible in the glorified state of the resurrected righteous. Also, they were termed "virgins", since there is no marriage or giving in marriage in the resurrected state.

Actually, made virgins, i.e. females, because they didn't defile themselves by having children with women. The sons of God actually have gender.

 

[MonoBiblical]

If you are implying that this all takes place with 144,000 Jews, under the NC., God has firmly declared, through the Holy Spirit in Paul:
Rom. 10
[11] For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
[12] For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
[13] For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
God is no longer making any distinction of who is a Jew and who is not!

Greek and Jew are generic terms for gentile and Israelite. Do you realize this?

 

[rebuilder 454]

The mission isn't stated but they are sealed before the trib starts which IMO protects them from Apostasy, deception and taking the MoB.. Who they are is given, they are Israelite men from 12 tribes. They follow Christ so they are Christians. Gentile Christians are not part of them but all are part of one church. This passage just focuses upon one group.

Huh?
The bible is true?
I guess what it clearly says, is who they are.
Glad you unpacked it for them.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Thanks for your reply! I look at it a little differently. The 144000 are to come before Jesus can return.

This connects with the 4th and final Great Jubilee cycle. Each of the cycles are 490 years in length. The 4th began the same time as the beginning of the 70 weeks of years prophecy in 456 BC. Thus, it was supposed to end 490 years later but the counting of it stopped exactly at the time of the cross or 3.5 years before its end date. Meaning, Jesus cannot return until the Great Jubilee is completed. So, after He opens their eyes and they recognize Jesus as the one they pierced, they will go out into the world just as Paul did for those remaining 3.5 years. Only the Jews can complete the Jubilee and bring in the Messiah.

The phrase “they will go wherever Jesus goes” is symbolic and it means they will essentially have a single purpose, entirely dedicated to the Word of God and do exactly what He has asked of them for the remaining 3.5 years. That is my take on this end time.

No.
Jesus comes and gathers the Gentile church.
Thus fulfilling the time of the Gentiles completed as spoken by Jesus.
Then we see the beginning of what paul declared in Roman's chapters nine through eleven
That is why the 144000 are called First fruits, because now God turns his attention to the Jewish people Spoken about in Romans. The grafting back in.
The tribulation period is called jacobs trouble because the tribulation period is Pointing at the Jews
There is nothing else concerning the 144000 being first fruits, Other than that is exactly what they are.
They are first fruit Jews as his clearly and vividly declared in their description.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Jew here refers to all of Israel just as Greek means all gentiles not only people from Greece.

Yes
God's covenant people.
The Jews

 

[CTK]

No.
Jesus comes and gathers the Gentile church.
Thus fulfilling the time of the Gentiles completed as spoken by Jesus.
Then we see the beginning of what paul declared in Roman's chapters nine through eleven
That is why the 144000 are called First fruits, because now God turns his attention to the Jewish people Spoken about in Romans. The grafting back in.
The tribulation period is called jacobs trouble because the tribulation period is Pointing at the Jews
There is nothing else concerning the 144000 being first fruits, Other than that is exactly what they are.
They are first fruit Jews as his clearly and vividly declared in their description.

Thanks for your thoughts! I would ask that you might consider the following:

That today’s Christianity that is preached is nothing like that preached by Paul in the first century. His Word has been corrupted, and changed greatly. And there are still maybe 4 billion people that are not believers. Meaning, if our doctrines and practices and beliefs have changed within the Christian community, then possibly all are lost.

Therefore, these 144000 Jews will have their blindness removed by God and they will be tasked to go out into the world to preach the Good News exactly as Paul did. Meaning, they not only will preach the testimony of Jesus but also have a true understanding of the Old Testament- which for many denominations- especially the Catholic Church has been left on the shelves to the believers but also to the other 4 or 5 billion that are believers in other religions or atheists, etc.

Today, there are approximately 1.4 billion Catholics in the world- all believing / accepting the pope is divine and God on earth. That he is infallible, can forgive sin, and change God’s laws… worship saints, and pray to idols, and preach Jesus in name only. They claim that salvation comes through their church only, and their followers must accept all their pagan doctrines … so much more! Well, this is one massive group of folks who need to hear the true word of God before judgement day. They need to see and hear the true Gospel these 144000 will preach and realize just how far their church has corrupted Gods word.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Thanks for your thoughts! I would ask that you might consider the following:

That today’s Christianity that is preached is nothing like that preached by Paul in the first century. His Word has been corrupted, and changed greatly. And there are still maybe 4 billion people that are not believers. Meaning, if our doctrines and practices and beliefs have changed within the Christian community, then possibly all are lost.

Therefore, these 144000 Jews will have their blindness removed by God and they will be tasked to go out into the world to preach the Good News exactly as Paul did. Meaning, they not only will preach the testimony of Jesus but also have a true understanding of the Old Testament- which for many denominations- especially the Catholic Church has been left on the shelves to the believers but also to the other 4 or 5 billion that are believers in other religions or atheists, etc.

Today, there are approximately 1.4 billion Catholics in the world- all believing / accepting the pope is divine and God on earth. That he is infallible, can forgive sin, and change God’s laws… worship saints, and pray to idols, and preach Jesus in name only. They claim that salvation comes through their church only, and their followers must accept all their pagan doctrines … so much more! Well, this is one massive group of folks who need to hear the true word of God before judgement day. They need to see and hear the true Gospel these 144000 will preach and realize just how far their church has corrupted Gods word.

I don't see where the 144k do any preaching.

 

[CTK]

I don't see where the 144k do any preaching.

Matthew 24:14, Zechariah 8:23, Isaiah 66:19, Revelation 7:4-8, Romans 11:25-26... I think you might be able to fill in the blanks here...

 

[PinSeeker]

Yes
God's covenant people.
The Jews

And who is a Jew in God's eyes, rebuilder? A member of the Israel of God... His household? Paul tells us at the end of Romans 2...

"For no one is a Jew who is merely one outwardly, nor is circumcision outward and physical. But a Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter. His praise is not from man but from God." (Romans 2:28-29)

Paul further expounds on this at the end of Ephesians 2, speaking to Gentiles:

"For (Christ) Himself is our peace, Who has made us both one and has broken down in His flesh the dividing wall of hostility by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that He might create in Himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility. And He came and preached peace to you who were far off and peace to those who were near. For through Him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father. So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the cornerstone, in Whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord. In Him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God by the Spirit." (Ephesians 2:22)

This also answers the question someone else brought up earlier in this thread concerning this "third temple," of which the architect and builder is God (Hebrews 11:10). It's us. We are the temple. We are being built together into a dwelling place for God by the Spirit.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[rwb]

Okay, I am currently reading / considering / studying chapter 7 of Revelation and came across the 144,000. Are there any thoughts on who these folks are and their mission? Thanks.

Have you ever considered them as the first fruits of the Spirit? They could not be spiritually resurrected until the Holy Spirit, depicted as the wind was sent to be in faithful man after the resurrection of Christ. They would be the faithful church from Old Covenant Israel (Church in the wilderness Acts 7:38) who believed in Messiah who was to come but could not be spiritually raised to life before the cross and resurrection of Christ. Christ must come first to make atonement for sin and defeat death. Then Christ would send the Spirit to seal (make spiritually alive) the saints of Old who lived and died before the advent of Christ.

 

[CTK]

Have you ever considered them as the first fruits of the Spirit? They could not be spiritually resurrected until the Holy Spirit, depicted as the wind was sent to be in faithful man after the resurrection of Christ. They would be the faithful church from Old Covenant Israel (Church in the wilderness Acts 7:38) who believed in Messiah who was to come but could not be spiritually raised to life before the cross and resurrection of Christ. Christ must come first to make atonement for sin and defeat death. Then Christ would send the Spirit to seal (make spiritually alive) the saints of Old who lived and died before the advent of Christ.

The sealing of God’s servants in Revelation 7:4-8 strongly parallels the final plague in Exodus and finds echoes in other Old Testament passages. These connections highlight God’s consistent pattern of mercy and protection for His faithful. In the final plague of Exodus, God commanded the Israelites to mark their doorposts with the blood of a lamb (Exodus 12:7, 13). This mark symbolized their allegiance to God and provided protection against the destroying angel. Similarly, the sealing of the 144,000 in Revelation identifies and safeguards God’s servants from the judgments to come. Both instances underscore God’s power to shield His people amid widespread calamity—whether it is the Israelites’ deliverance from Egypt or the faithful’s ultimate redemption in Revelation.

This theme also appears in Ezekiel’s vision of the mark (Ezekiel 9:3-6), where a man clothed in linen marks the foreheads of those grieving over Jerusalem’s sins. Those marked are spared from destruction, much like the servants sealed in Revelation 7. In these scenes, the mark represents divine protection and sets the faithful apart from those subject to judgment. Other Old Testament references further enrich this symbolism. Deuteronomy 6:8 instructs God’s people to bind His words as a sign on their hands and foreheads, symbolizing devotion and obedience—similar to being sealed as God’s own. Malachi 3:17-18 promises God’s protection for those who fear Him, calling them His "jewels." Likewise, in Isaiah 26:20-21, God tells His people to "enter your chambers" and hide until His wrath has passed, a vivid parallel to the sealing in Revelation, where judgment is delayed until the faithful are identified and protected. These connections between Revelation 7 and the Old Testament emphasize God’s unchanging character. The seal, like the blood on the doorposts or the mark in Ezekiel, signifies God’s ownership, care, and mercy for His people.

The 144,000 in Revelation as God’s chosen witnesses at the end of time is both compelling and meaningful. These individuals represent God’s people who, like Paul, will be given their own "Damascus experience.” Romans 11:25-26 speaks of a time when the partial hardening of Israel will end, allowing them to recognize Jesus as their Messiah. This aligns with Zechariah 12:10, where the people of Israel will mourn deeply as they realize they have pierced the One who came to save them. At this pivotal moment, God’s people will have the blindness lifted from their eyes and will embrace Jesus, fulfilling their role in His redemptive plan.

These 144,000 will then go out into the world, preaching the Good News with fervor and urgency, much like Paul did in the first century. Their mission will be a final call to humanity to turn to God before the return of Christ. This mission is tied to the prophetic timeline of Daniel’s 70 weeks of years (Daniel 9:24-27). The 3.5 years of ministry by the 144,000 will complete the final portion of the 490 years decreed for God’s people. The timeline, which began in 457 BC, was interrupted at the cross, with 486.5 years fulfilled. The remaining 3.5 years must be completed, and can only be completed by His people. At the conclusion of these final 3.5 years, the 4th and final Great Jubilee cycle will be completed – then the Messiah.

The 144,000, sealed as God’s faithful witnesses, will not only go out into the world to preach the Word of God and the Testimony of Jesus but will also expose the profound departure of the church and its teachings from the true Word of God. Over the past 1500 years, the little horn, symbolizing the papacy, has disseminated doctrines and practices that diverge from biblical truth. These witnesses will serve as a powerful testimony, shining a light on these deviations and calling people back to the purity of God’s Word. Their mission will be one of both proclamation and restoration, revealing God’s truth and preparing the world for the Messiah’s return.